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GM News: Rumorpile: GM Joins the Electric Van Fray


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While the focus on the electric vehicles have been on the ultra plush and quick models from the likes of Tesla, Audi, and Jaguar, there is a lot of work being done for electric delivery vans. The combination of reduced maintenance, low fuel costs, and an abundance of torque to deal with heavy loads make them a perfect to do deliveries in urban areas. Rivian is the most-well known player here with plans to build out a fleet of electric vans for Amazon. Another player is ready to join the fight.

Reuters reported yesterday that General Motors is working on a electric van for the commercial market. Five sources reveal that the van - codenamed BV1 - is expected to go into production late next year. It is expected to use Ultium battery technology that GM first talked about back in March. Utilizing this could solve one of the big issues with EVs, price. By switching Cobalt (expensive) for Aluminum (less expensive), GM says it will drop the cost of a battery to $100 per kilowatt-hour - making it around the same cost as regular gas powered van. Analysis done last year put the kilowatt-hour cost of a battery at $159. 

One item still being debated internally is whether the van will be sold as Chevrolet, GMC, or a new brand. 

When asked by Reuters, GM said it is “committed to an all-electric future and is implementing a multi-segment, scalable EV strategy to get there. At this time, we do not have any announcements to make regarding electric commercial vehicles.”

GM isn't the only company getting on the electric van train. Ford has announced plans for an electric version of the Transit to launch in 2022, and British startup Arrival which has the backing of Hyundai, currently has an order of 10,000 vans from UPS.

Source: Reuters


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Very exciting to see that the future will have quiet zero emission delivery vans in cities and urban areas. Should help with clean air as well as just keeping things quiet.

Right now it is so noisy with all the diesel UPS and FedEx vans moving around to deliver everything due to the pandemic.

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58 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Very exciting to see that the future will have quiet zero emission delivery vans in cities and urban areas. Should help with clean air as well as just keeping things quiet.

Right now it is so noisy with all the diesel UPS and FedEx vans moving around to deliver everything due to the pandemic.

I think a lot of it is cultural with respect to how much people use their horns and just being obnoxiously loud too with their car radios or conversations etc..   Tokyo is very quiet for a city of almost 40 million people, amazing.

 

 

Edited by frogger
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33 minutes ago, frogger said:

I think a lot of it is cultural with respect to how much people use their horns and just being obnoxiously loud too with their car radios or conversations etc..   Tokyo is very quiet for a city of almost 40 million people, amazing.

Very true, as one that went to college at Kobe University, I have spent much time in Tokyo and this is true of the whole country, people are raised to not impose their choices of music, auto noise, etc. on others around them and as such you do have traditional city noise without all the extraneous noise of music, open pipe auto's exhausts, etc.

The worst thing I remember before the Pandemic was the Harley open header bikes coming into the city of Seattle early in the morning for construction jobs and how loud and noisy it was. I felt for those living in the city that are woke up by the rude noise of the bikes or auto's that also have loud exhausts. 

EV's will bring much tranquility to the cities as well as the urban areas.

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23 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Very true, as one that went to college at Kobe University, I have spent much time in Tokyo and this is true of the whole country, people are raised to not impose their choices of music, auto noise, etc. on others around them and as such you do have traditional city noise without all the extraneous noise of music, open pipe auto's exhausts, etc.

I haven't been but it is right up there on my bucket list to spend a few months. I do enjoy watching travel videos on youtube sometimes.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLAwF-SG0S-66r3VaUPDI59RmZ24uH0GU

 

 

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1 hour ago, frogger said:

I haven't been but it is right up there on my bucket list to spend a few months. I do enjoy watching travel videos on youtube sometimes.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLAwF-SG0S-66r3VaUPDI59RmZ24uH0GU

You will love all the vending machines, there is nothing you cannot get out of a vending machine. It is OK for kids to buy cigarettes and 5th of whiskey for their parents. There is far more respect for both youth and older adults than we see here in the US. We could learn a few things on having a better open society leading to respect for each other.

This is not to say they are perfect as they have their own issues also much like us.

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Commercial EV vans make sense for deliveries as long as they know the average distance traveled in their specific routes and they should with GPS tracking that they use, but these vans will need 500+ mi. of range to cover most UPS or FedEx routes. Not gonna work sitting at a public charging station just to finish their route if over miles. I'm sure the GPS tracking will be able to advise the drivers to return to the distribution hub when at a certain threshold is reached, but what if you're the next guy in the route and now you have to wait until tomorrow because your drivers battery packs got too low? :explode:

I can tell you as of right now that UPS being the largest parcel delivery company in the world was the WORST during the height of the pandemic the last 3 months, they're all screwed up, my regular UPS driver told me it's busy like Christmas, but no extra drivers or trucks to cover the increase in shipments. Nothing is on time, not even close and they aren't guaranteeing anything, no next day or two day. Meanwhile, FedEx, Ontrac, Amazon as well as even USPS were surprisingly pretty good at getting parcels and/or letters delivered on time or even early at times.

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8 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

Commercial EV vans make sense for deliveries as long as they know the average distance traveled in their specific routes and they should with GPS tracking that they use, but these vans will need 500+ mi. of range to cover most UPS or FedEx routes. Not gonna work sitting at a public charging station just to finish their route if over miles. I'm sure the GPS tracking will be able to advise the drivers to return to the distribution hub when at a certain threshold is reached, but what if you're the next guy in the route and now you have to wait until tomorrow because your drivers battery packs got too low? :explode:

I can tell you as of right now that UPS being the largest parcel delivery company in the world was the WORST during the height of the pandemic the last 3 months, they're all screwed up, my regular UPS driver told me it's busy like Christmas, but no extra drivers or trucks to cover the increase in shipments. Nothing is on time, not even close and they aren't guaranteeing anything, no next day or two day. Meanwhile, FedEx, Ontrac, Amazon as well as even USPS were surprisingly pretty good at getting parcels and/or letters delivered on time or even early at times.

All businesses that have EVs have fast chargers and as such your looking at 40 min for full recharge not waiting till the next day. STOP THE FUD! about EVs. A full recharge is very doable during a lunch break.

We already know that the average route for US mail is under 100 miles a day, so no problem going EV for USPS, Amazon also has stated that their average daily route is no more than 150 miles if Urban, on average 50 to 80 miles in the City, so again no problem for EVs. 

Multiple sites that have UPS or FedEx drivers posting that on average they drive 100 to 150 miles with anywhere from 150 to 220 packages to be delivered. I have a hard time believing that the delivery drivers taking the package the last step to the customers door are driving 300 to 500 miles a day. 300 to 500 miles a day makes no business sense as they would never have time to stop and deliver the packages. There are posts that many drivers are like USPS with routes under 100 miles a day but hundreds of packages that have to be delivered.

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1 minute ago, dfelt said:

All businesses that have EVs have fast chargers and as such your looking at 40 min for full recharge not waiting till the next day. STOP THE FUD! about EVs. A full recharge is very doable during a lunch break.

We already know that the average route for US mail is under 100 miles a day, so no problem going EV for USPS, Amazon also has stated that their average daily route is no more than 150 miles if Urban, on average 50 to 80 miles in the City, so again no problem for EVs. 

Multiple sites that have UPS or FedEx drivers posting that on average they drive 100 to 150 miles with anywhere from 150 to 220 packages to be delivered. I have a hard time believing that the delivery drivers taking the package the last step to the customers door are driving 300 to 500 miles a day. 300 to 500 miles a day makes no business sense as they would never have time to stop and deliver the packages. There are posts that many drivers are like USPS with routes under 100 miles a day but hundreds of packages that have to be delivered.

Calm down EV soldier I'm not bashing EV's I'm just thinking outside of the box, try it sometime. I'm talking UPS or FedEx, those guys push 400-500 mi. every day especially right now and the huge battery packs on these trucks will never fully recharge during a lunch break if nearly depleted. My UPS driver just told me it's nuts and not enough time in the day to get all packages delivered, some have (and this is no joke) 800 stops/deliveries thrown on them in a day and at least half or more get pushed off for the next day and others for the next day and so on and so on. Deliveries will have to be scheduled around the trucks range just like current full BEV's and don't forget the extra weight of these truck will eat up the batteries faster as well. I still think the GM Voltec platform was the best technology having the best of both world's, but it was never marketed correctly or at all really. As for USPS yes those guys are ready for EV's with shorter routes and the long overdue replacement needed of the ancient small box trucks. If the UPS and FedEx trucks were the Voltec platform they could have EV mode around town and diesel mode on the freeway where batteries get depleted the fastest.

Have you owned or regularly driven a BEV or PHEV yet? I have, so I am speaking first hand with how they act.   

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2 hours ago, USA-1 said:

Calm down EV soldier I'm not bashing EV's I'm just thinking outside of the box, try it sometime. I'm talking UPS or FedEx, those guys push 400-500 mi. every day especially right now and the huge battery packs on these trucks will never fully recharge during a lunch break if nearly depleted. My UPS driver just told me it's nuts and not enough time in the day to get all packages delivered, some have (and this is no joke) 800 stops/deliveries thrown on them in a day and at least half or more get pushed off for the next day and others for the next day and so on and so on. Deliveries will have to be scheduled around the trucks range just like current full BEV's and don't forget the extra weight of these truck will eat up the batteries faster as well. I still think the GM Voltec platform was the best technology having the best of both world's, but it was never marketed correctly or at all really. As for USPS yes those guys are ready for EV's with shorter routes and the long overdue replacement needed of the ancient small box trucks. If the UPS and FedEx trucks were the Voltec platform they could have EV mode around town and diesel mode on the freeway where batteries get depleted the fastest.

Have you owned or regularly driven a BEV or PHEV yet? I have, so I am speaking first hand with how they act.   

One your wrong, the semi truck drivers might cover 400 to 500 miles in a day, but not the local deliver folks.

Your also wrong on the battery pack charging full on a lunch break. All the current 300 mile battery packs fully recharge in under an hour on DC fast chargers.

I agree with you that the GM Voltec should never have been a car and they first VOLT should have been a CUV and they should have had it in multiple CUVs by now.

Spent the last 5 years commuting to work daily in a Volt as a team member has one and it is great other than no one can sit behind me cause there is not enough room and my knees hit the volt dash.

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1 hour ago, dfelt said:

One your wrong, the semi truck drivers might cover 400 to 500 miles in a day, but not the local deliver folks.

Your also wrong on the battery pack charging full on a lunch break. All the current 300 mile battery packs fully recharge in under an hour on DC fast chargers.

Quote

I agree with you that the GM Voltec should never have been a car and they first VOLT should have been a CUV and they should have had it in multiple CUVs by now.

Spent the last 5 years commuting to work daily in a Volt as a team member has one and it is great other than no one can sit behind me cause there is not enough room and my knees hit the volt dash.

 

Do you mean, "you're" the one who's wrong? :D

These aren't going to be the standard 66kWh car battery packs like the Bolt has with 260mi. range. The charge time and range differs greatly with the type of onboard charger whether Level 2 or Level 3 DCFC and the kWh rating of the charger and the battery pack. Remember I worked for Blink Network here in Phoenix so I'm well versed with EV's and the chargers which are all onboard each car and each manf. is different. These vans will more than likely use the GM Ultium 800v 200kWh packs to make up for the extra weight of the van and the cargo, so charging will be much longer than 30 min. to get to full recharge, definitely not during your lunch break like you originally stated above.

https://techcrunch.com/2020/06/04/whats-driving-gms-reported-plans-to-develop-a-commercial-electric-van/

 

Hightower just ripped the front seats out and sat in back of his CVCC, we already talked about this David! :roflmao:

https://images.app.goo.gl/Jd3nBP8gKTEassBj7

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  • 2 weeks later...

And you probably will as they aren't in any hurry to enginer a new model unless this is the vehicle that brings the change. You know GMs famous bean counters it'll probably be the required electrics and an infusion of aluminum and a new grill and tailights.

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11 hours ago, 67impss said:

And you probably will as they aren't in any hurry to enginer a new model unless this is the vehicle that brings the change. You know GMs famous bean counters it'll probably be the required electrics and an infusion of aluminum and a new grill and tailights.

All the press release from GM says these new electric delivery / people transportation vans will be on the newest EV platform.

GM Fact Sheet_EV Architecture 030320.pdf

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Electric van makes a lot of sense because most delivery vans, especially in urban areas aren't doing a ton of miles per day.  Also for things like contractors, plumbers, electricians, etc that don't put a lot of miles per day on a van.  

Plus with a van you can stick batteries in the floor easily, from a packaging standpoint is is easy on design.  From a maintenance standpoint, an EV needs less maintenance and thus less downtime for what is a work or delivery vehicle.

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      Two distinct modern luxury brands with sustainability at the centre
      At the heart of its Reimagine plan will be the electrification of both Land Rover and Jaguar brands on separate architectures with two clear, unique personalities.
      In a Land Rover, vehicle and driver are united by adventure. By breaking new ground, confronting new challenges and not being content with the expected, Land Rover truly helps people to go ‘Above and Beyond’. In the next five years, Land Rover will welcome six pure electric variants as it continues to be the world leader of luxury SUVs through its three families of Range Rover, Discovery and Defender. The first all-electric variant will arrive in 2024.
      By the middle of the decade, Jaguar will have undergone a renaissance to emerge as a pure electric luxury brand with a dramatically beautiful new portfolio of emotionally engaging designs and pioneering next-generation technologies. Jaguar will exist to make life extraordinary by creating dramatically beautiful automotive experiences that leave its customers feeling unique and rewarded. Although the nameplate may be retained, the planned Jaguar XJ replacement will not form part of the line-up, as the brand looks to realise its unique potential.
      Jaguar and Land Rover will offer pure electric power, nameplate by nameplate, by 2030. By this time, in addition to 100% of Jaguar sales, it is anticipated that around 60% of Land Rovers sold will be equipped with zero tailpipe powertrains.
      Jaguar Land Rover’s aim is to achieve net zero carbon emissions across its supply chain, products and operations by 2039. As part of this ambition, the company is also preparing for the expected adoption of clean fuel-cell power in line with a maturing of the hydrogen economy. Development is already underway with prototypes arriving on UK roads within the next 12 months as part of the long-term investment programme.
      Sustainability that delivers a new benchmark in environmental and societal impact for the luxury sector is fundamental to the success of Reimagine. A new centralised team will be empowered to build on and accelerate pioneering innovations in materiality, engineering, manufacturing, services and circular economy investments. 
      Annual commitments of circa £2.5bn will include investments in electrification technologies and the development of connected services to enhance the journey and experiences of customers, alongside data-centric technologies that will further improve their ownership ecosystem.
      Proven services like the flexible PIVOTAL subscription model (which has grown 750% during the fiscal year), born out of Jaguar Land Rover’s incubator and investor arm, InMotion, will now be rolled out to other markets following a successful launch in the UK.
      Quality and efficiency
      Reimagine will see Jaguar Land Rover establish new benchmark standards in quality and efficiency for the luxury sector by rightsizing, repurposing and reorganising.
      Central to that journey, and in order to establish different personalities for the two brands, is the new architecture strategy. 
      Land Rover will use the forthcoming flex Modular Longitudinal Architecture (MLA). It will deliver electrified internal combustion engines (ICE) and full electric variants as the company evolves its product line-up in the future. In addition, Land Rover will also use pure electric biased Electric Modular Architecture (EMA) which will also support advanced electrified ICE.
      Future Jaguar models will be built exclusively on a pure electric architecture.
      Reimagine is designed to deliver simplification too. By consolidating the number of platforms and models being produced per plant, the company will be able to establish new benchmark standards in efficient scale and quality for the luxury sector. Such an approach will help rationalise sourcing and accelerate investments in local circular economy supply chains.
      From a core manufacturing perspective that means Jaguar Land Rover will retain its plant and assembly facilities in the home UK market and around the world. As well as being the manufacturer of the MLA architecture, Solihull, West Midlands will also be the home to the future advanced Jaguar pure electric platform. 
      Key partners including Trade Unions, retailers and those in the supply chain will continue to play a vital part of the extended new Jaguar Land Rover ecosystem and its journey towards reimagining the future of modern luxury.
      ReFocus to a more agile operation
      As evidenced with the latest financial results, Jaguar Land Rover has a strong foundation on which to build a sustainable and resilient business for its customers and their communities, partners, employees, shareholders and the environment.
      Driving this transformation is the recently launched Refocus programme, by consolidating existing initiatives like Charge+ with new cross-functional activities.
      Reimagine will see Jaguar Land Rover right-size, repurpose and reorganise into a more agile operation. The creation of a flatter structure is designed to empower employees to create and deliver at speed and with clear purpose.
      To accelerate this efficiency of focus, the company will substantially reduce and rationalise its non-manufacturing infrastructure in the UK. Gaydon will become the symbol of this effort – the ‘reactor’ of the business - with the Executive Team and other management functions moving into the one location to aid frictionless cooperation and agile decision-making.  
      Leapfrog to leadership with Tata Group
      In order to realise its vision of modern luxury mobility with confidence, the company will curate closer collaboration and knowledge-sharing with Tata Group companies to enhance sustainability and reduce emissions as well as sharing best practice in next-generation technology, data and software development leadership. Jaguar Land Rover has been a wholly-owned subsidiary of Tata Motors, in which Tata Sons is the largest shareholder, since 2008.
      “We have so many ingredients from within. It is a unique opportunity,” said Mr Bolloré. “Others have to rely solely on external partnerships and compromise, but we have frictionless access that will allow us to lean forward with confidence and at speed.”
      Bringing all these ingredients together, Jaguar Land Rover is on a path towards double-digit EBIT margins and positive cash flow, with an ambition to achieve positive cash net-of-debt by 2025. 
      Ultimately, Jaguar Land Rover aims to be one of the most profitable luxury manufacturers in the world.
      Mr N Chandrasekaran, Chairman of Tata Sons, Tata Motors and Jaguar Land Rover Automotive plc commented: “The Reimagine strategy takes Jaguar Land Rover on a significant path of acceleration in harmony with the vision and sustainability priorities of the wider Tata Group. Together, we will help Jaguar realise its potential, reinforce Land Rover’s timeless appeal and collectively become a symbol of a truly responsible business for its customers, society and the planet.”
      Mr Bolloré concluded: “As a human-centred company, we can, and will, move much faster and with clear purpose of not just reimagining modern luxury but defining it for two distinct brands. Brands that present emotionally unique designs, pieces of art if you like, but all with connected technologies and responsible materials that collectively set new standards in ownership. We are reimagining a new modern luxury by design.”
    • By David
      Love this new marketing from GM!
      Are you willing to join the future? Are you willing to join Generation E?
      GM-Generation-E.mp4
    • By David
      GM announced today their new family of EV motors, The Ultium Drive family.

      The Ultium Drive family is made up of five interchangeable drive units and three motors. This will help transition the current portfolio of auto's to fully electric lineup. Performance, scale, speed to market and manufacturing efficiencies will provide GM significant advantages over past EV auto's. GM is leading the way with industry class leading drive units that use an electric motor and single-speed transmissions to apply power best in class horsepower and torque. Ultium Drives will be more responsive than internal combustion motors with precision torque control of the motors and smooth performance. The design and development of the Ultium Drive modular architecture allows us to offer industry-leading torque with power density across a wide spectrum of different vehicles types.
      GM has applied their 25 years of EV experience in creating the Ultium Drive family with lighter and more efficient designs. The Ultium Drive family integrates the power electronics into the drive units assemblies allowing for a 50% reduction in electronics over previous auto's thus saving cost and packaging space while increasing capability by 25 percent.

      To Quote GM press release:
      “As with other propulsion systems that are complex, capital intensive and contain a great deal of intellectual property, we’re always better off making them ourselves,” said Adam Kwiatkowski, GM executive chief engineer, Global Electrical Propulsion. “GM’s full lineup of EVs should benefit from the simultaneous engineering of Ultium Drive. Our commitment to increased vertical integration is expected to bring additional cost efficiency to the performance equation.”
      Ultium-Drive-to-Help-Power-GMs-All-Electric-Future.mp4


      https://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/home.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2020/sep/0916-ultium-drive.html
    • By William Maley
      The COVID-19 pandemic has possibly caused another auto show to rethink their plans. According to Automotive News, organizers of the show are planning to delay the show from November to next May. Three sources tell the outlet the new dates are May 21st to 31st. Two of sources go on to say that an announcement could come this week.
      Automotive News tried to get comment from Terri Toennies, president of the show, but did not reply.
      By possibly moving the LA Auto Show to May, automakers and organizers of the New York and Detroit shows find themselves in a difficult spot. The LA show sandwiches between New York (April) and the revised Detroit show (June), which may cause automakers to make difficult decisions as to which shows get the most significant unveilings or whether to attend at all.
      Auto shows in general have been struggling before the onset of the pandemic. With automakers deciding to hold their own events to have more time in the spotlight and save cash, the spectacle of the show has gone down.
      We'll keep you posted.
      Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required)

      View full article
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