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    Rumorpile: Mercedes-Benz To Build Out A Subbrand For Electric Vehicles


    • Mercedes follows BMW with creating a subbrand for electric vehicles

    Mercedes-Benz is planning to launch a handful of electric vehicles in the near future, and those vehicles will be part of a new subbrand.

     

    Bloomberg has learned from sources that the German automaker will be taking a page out of BMW's playbook and introduce a new subbrand that will be comprised of two electric sedans and two SUVs - something we first reported back in May. A name hasn't been chosen yet according to the sources. What is for certain is that Mercedes will show off a concept electric SUV at the Paris Motor Show in September. Using a new platform for electric vehicles, the concept is expected to boast a range of 310 miles. Mercedes hopes to start selling vehicles under this subbrand before the end of the decade.

     

    But doing a subbrand for electric vehicles is a risky proposition. BMW's i hasn't made any real impact in terms of sales or recognition. This has caused the brand to delay plans for another i model. Whether Mercedes-Benz is able to avoid the pitfallls remains to be seen.

     

    Source: Bloomberg

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    BMW I think failed in many ways with the i Series, too customer built, too high a price with too limited range. GM hit the note right and I think if MB does it right with range and style, they will succeed with BMW failed. I only hope Cadillac is being aggressive to build properly priced EV's and plug-in Hybrids into their lineup.

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    So they'll have:

    Mercedes-Benz

    Mercedes-Maybach

    Mercedes-AMG

     

    Mercedes-EV?

     

    I guess a sub-brand makes sense, but I don't know what they'll call it.  The sub-brand is probably something that would only last 15-20 years, because in 2040 probably every C-class and E-class will be an electric car.  You wouldn't need an electric sub-brand when everything is electric, and no reason making up another letter class when they have the current model names in line.

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    Creating separate, unique models is the wrong way to approach it. 
    If automakers truly believe EVs are the way to go, they need to offer EV power trains in existing cars, to make their acceptance as smooth & seamless as possible. I4, V6, V8, EV in the same vehicles.

     

    The BMW i cars are flops; no surprise at all that they're halting expansion.

    Mercedes is very late to the game here; for the supposed 'future of the auto industry' - MB is going on 15 years behind Tesla. 

     

    That's almost as long as MB was behind the invention of the modern auto.

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    Mercedes has waited until the public and the battery technology was ready.  EV's still have low sales, by 2020 they should gain some more support.

     

    Making an electric E-class isn't going to make the best electric sedan, because the E-class is designed around a gas engine and 9 speed transmission and a drive shaft down the middle.  An electric car doesn't need all that, they can put a flat floor in, more interior room, a front trunk, etc with a chassis made for batteries and electric motors.

     

    The Mercedes electric sedan is supposed to be one of the 3 quickest cars they make, they are coming for Tesla, and they won't have the production and ramp up issues or lack of advertising, or lack of dealer network holding them back.

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    MB should've developed & debuted new technology that propelled EVs forward, don't you think?
    Instead of conceding the luxury EV image to Tesla… and still no flagship EV from MB… but years in the future?

     

    Asleep at the switch, some might say.

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    Well of course; they sell cargo vans right. next. to. the S-class.

    LOL! It is a genuine question though since it is obvious that they don't want their EV cars to intermingle with the rest of the group. Now if the down voter could offer a counter to that assertion, that would be great (as opposed to just being a brat about it).

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    They sell AMG on the same lot, this is no different. I don't think they will looks stupid like BMW's EVs. There are supposed to be 2 sedans, one could be $100-200k, I'd imagine the small one they would want to be closer to E-class money. And they have 2 crossovers coming. As long as it doesn't look like that F2015 concept car and looks like the Vision Gran Turismo thing they will be in good shape.

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    They sell AMG on the same lot, this is no different. I don't think they will looks stupid like BMW's EVs. There are supposed to be 2 sedans, one could be $100-200k, I'd imagine the small one they would want to be closer to E-class money. And they have 2 crossovers coming. As long as it doesn't look like that F2015 concept car and looks like the Vision Gran Turismo thing they will be in good shape.

    It is very different or else these would not come out as a sub brand. The AMG may be considered a "sub brand" but it is more along the lines of the V Series for Cadillac (obviously on a grander scale though) while the EV sub brand sounds like it is going to be more like how Scion was to Toyota, which was clearly a fail just like the BMW EV route. Now, I am not saying that is how it will go because there isn't that much information to go off of but that is the feeling I am getting here. Time will tell until the Paris debut.

    Edited by surreal1272
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    Without question; MB has been watching BMW's floundering with the "i" sub-brand, and they are hedging their bets by intentionally not 'cross-pollinating' the core lines with this EV experiment.

     

    Meanwhile, they will spend 10 times the money in development, testing, branding, advertising, etc… when instead they should pour those monies into developing a unilateral platform that readily accepts both ICE & EV powertr—— HE-EEEEYY! LOOK @ OUR NEW REBADGED NISSAN PICK 'EM UP TRUCK! IT'S THE MERCEDES OF NISSANS!

     

    :P 

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    And yet Cadillac's flagship product is built on a Chevy pick up chassis.

    Mercedes has their chassis right on. Fwd car, C/E-class share, S-class is a modified bigger version of that, GLE/GLS share a crossover chassis, SLC/SL share.

    All 4 electrics can share one platform. They are spending $8 billion in the next 2 years on plug in and electric cars, so yes it is expensive but they don't operate on a shoe string budget like some luxury car makers.

    Edited by smk4565
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    • Escalade is not Cadillac's flagship.

    • There are no 'Chevy chassis's'.

    • Daimler is buying trucks from the same manufacturer whom they compete with (Infiniti). Besides, whose chassis would you rather have under your truck; nissan or General Motors? :smilewide:

     

    • I specifically said Daimler should engineer a platform than can accept either ICE or EP. Not or.
    It's of no significance that 'all 4 EVs share the same platform'-  how is that "leading"?

    Engineer a configurable chassis, then offer full EP on the core vehicles, rather than blow thru billions to bring yet more alpha-nonsense sedans out. It's stupid… MB seems to believe the way BMW is doing it is stupid… yet they still won't commit to doing it the right way.

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    It is of my own personal observations that I deem sub-brands a failure.

    Sub brands that fail from my own observations are sub-brands that should have never been brought forth as the existing brand could do the job perfectly had the billions of R&D money been spent PROPERLY on the cars from the brand that exists...

     

    Saturn and Scion come to mind.

     

    GM spent billions trying to improve on quality and new manufacturing techniques  by introducing Saturn with all new factories, workers and dealership networks....

    Imagine what miracles Chevy, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Buick and Cadillac would have done had these billions been spent on them?

     

    Toyota did the same for SCION because the Toyota brand became too dull and bland and full of geezers buying into the Toyota brand.

    SCION was geared for the young crowd, but geezers bought SCION.

    Imagine how Toyota the brand could have reversed this trend if Toyota the corporation would have spent the money correctly in giving the youth what they wanted in AFFORDABLE Supra sports cars, sexy Celicas and the like?

     

    Anyway....back to Mercedes Benz.

    I think this will fail too.

     

    WHY?

     

    Because Mercedes Benz has name recognition as it is....

    Awesome name recognition.

    Mercedes should use this to beat up on Tesla on name alone.

    If the appropriate money was spent on engineering a great EV that is that beats up on a Tesla.

    This way, by creating an EV sub brand....they limit their financial resources to actually engineer a great EV...

     

    BMW's iBrand in no way trounces Tesla's engineering...THAT is why BMW is failing...

     

    SMART and Maybach also lead me to believe that Mercedes Benz has no phoquing idea how do sub-brand.

     

    General Motors may have failed with Saturn....and they failed with Lasalle...

     

    But Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Buick (still alive and kickin') did succeed.

    Pontiac and Oldsmobile died because Saturn and SAAB stole the necessary funds to do things right....

    OK...money was bleeding form the late 1970s....other factors killed GM's umbrella formula. But Pontiac and Oldsmobile were downright popular brands that lasted 100 years!

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    And yet Cadillac's flagship product is built on a Chevy pick up chassis.

    Mercedes has their chassis right on. Fwd car, C/E-class share, S-class is a modified bigger version of that, GLE/GLS share a crossover chassis, SLC/SL share.

    All 4 electrics can share one platform. They are spending $8 billion in the next 2 years on plug in and electric cars, so yes it is expensive but they don't operate on a shoe string budget like some luxury car makers.

    And both Chevy and Cadillac are owned by...GM as opposed to Benz borrowing a Nissan which is not owned by them. Understand the difference yet?

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    Daimler has a partnership agreement with Renault-Nissan.  The smallest Infiniti crossover is built on a GLA chassis with a GLA engine.  There is some shared engineering on front drive product to save on costs.  Nissan has also outsold the Colorado over the past 10-15 years or however you want to measure it, they aren't some loser when it comes to pickups, and we still don't know anything about the Mercedes pickup, or if it will even be sold in the USA.  

     

    Saturn was not a sub-brand nor was Scion.  Those are brands.

     

    Mercedes-AMG is a sub-brand.  These 4 products could be called Mercedes-EV rather than Mercedes-Benz.  But it will start with Mercedes and have a 3 point star.  And making a pure EV E-class would be a dumb idea since you have huge hood space to accommodate a V and a center tunnel for drive shaft and exhaust, both of which an EV doesn't need, you don't need a huge firewall behind the engine block.  An EV needs a place for batteries, and can have a flat floor, more space, more open dash board, etc.    The B-class EV is an example of the wrong way to build an EV, but they made it for compliance purposes.

     

    Mercedes will have 10 plug-in hybrids, so if you want some electric drive capability on a C-class, GLE, E-class, etc, they are selling that option.  If you want a Tesla style car, they will have that option too.

     

    Luckily Mercedes is not limited to $12 billion over 5 years for new product.   And they won't build stupid stuff like a plug-in hybrid sports car that costs $150,000 that is slower than other $150,000 sports cars, or an ugly looking box on 3 inch wide tires.

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    • Center tunnel has no impact on sedans, as none have center seating (front) anymore. Fill it with batteries.

    • Firewall is necessary for 1. crash standards, and 2. battery fires. It doesn't take up any room anyway.

    • There are no operating portions of an ICE in the dash boards of cars, therefore going to EP is not going to mean a smaller dashboard. And there is no "etc" in the things you mentioned above.
     

    Hybrids are getting passed by for the most part, it's not the leading edge anymore. Plug-ins are a compromise compared to where Tesla is dragging Mercedes, kicking & screaming.

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    Without question; MB has been watching BMW's floundering with the "i" sub-brand, and they are hedging their bets by intentionally not 'cross-pollinating' the core lines with this EV experiment.

     

    Meanwhile, they will spend 10 times the money in development, testing, branding, advertising, etc… when instead they should pour those monies into developing a unilateral platform that readily accepts both ICE & EV powertr—— HE-EEEEYY! LOOK @ OUR NEW REBADGED NISSAN PICK 'EM UP TRUCK! IT'S THE MERCEDES OF NISSANS!

     

    :P

    For a second there I thought you were talking about the rebadged Nissan van with the bow tie on it.

    My bad.

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    The Bowtie brand doesn't self-proclaim it is 'the best or Nothing', does it? Where is the "Best" EV sedan? 

     

    For a brand we hear spends "way more" than anyone else, my question stands; why not engineer a vehicle that simply can have either power train built into it?
    Because MB is certainly coming off here as an also-ran...

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    My bad on the mis-understanding of sub-brands...

     

    However, Ill still stick to my guns and say Mercedes has no idea how to sub-brand...

     

    Before Daimler bought AMG, AMG was an independent company hot rodding M-B products with their own in-house hardware. In this scenario, AMG was not a sub-brand.

    Daimler bought AMG and the way M-B does AMG today, AMG is just a trim package...especially when there was AMG "sport" models not too long ago that were above the regular M-B cars and below the "real" AMG badged cars....

    The AMG treatment is done on all of M-B's models. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. Making it by definition, a trim package on the same level as 'SE', 'LT', 'GL' and so forth and so forth.

     

     

    I gather that a "real" sub-brand would be how Chrysler USED to do the Imperial line-up  back in the 1950s before the Imperial became a model of its own. \

    In which I will keep my opinion in that sub-brands suck too much to do right taking away from the core brands...

     

    That is why its easier, and more efficient to do what M-B is doing with AMG...

     

    But I could be wrong in viewing this mess of an opinion this way...

     

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    Why doesn't Cadillac build the CT6 off the Escalade platform?  They are about the same size.  Oh right, different purpose for the vehicle and building a CT6 on a 5,900 lb truck chassis would make it slow and thirsty with bad handling, the opposite of what they are trying to achieve.  Maybe the Cruze and Corvette shoudl share one platform since they are both Chevy's of similar size.

     

    Tesla doesn't build cars on a gas powered car platform.  They have a flat floor, more leg room for passengers and the rear middle seat is actually usable and more front console space since you don't have to build around a tunnel.  The Volt was always dogged for poor interior room and gen 1 was a 4 passenger car because of the tunnel of batteries running down the middle.

     

    Obviously Mercedes wishes to build the "Best" EV platform there is, so they want to start from scratch and not use the MRA platform or load 500 lbs of batteries under the hood of an S-class.  They know what they are doing when it comes to building cars.

     

    The sub-brand is where I am not sold, because they can make an EV sedan faster than an E63, or faster than an AMG GT, so that should be an AMG model.  Or how awesome would a 600 hp electric Maybach be that has no engine noise. 

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    AMG is more than just a trim level.  TechnicallyAMG  is their own company that is an wholely owned subsidiary of Daimler.  AMG has 1,400 employees and a CEO and they do their own engineering work on the AMG models.  Yes they AMG-ify every model Mercedes makes, but they do modifactions to the transmission, build their own V8 and V12 engines, there are modifcations to the body and underpinnings of the car and so on.  The C63 AMG is actually 4 inches longer than a C300, because AMG put a longer hood on it to fit the V8.  It isn't like they just drop a more powerful engine and fancy wheels and call it a day.

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    Daimler has a partnership agreement with Renault-Nissan.  The smallest Infiniti crossover is built on a GLA chassis with a GLA engine.  There is some shared engineering on front drive product to save on costs.  Nissan has also outsold the Colorado over the past 10-15 years or however you want to measure it, they aren't some loser when it comes to pickups, and we still don't know anything about the Mercedes pickup, or if it will even be sold in the USA.  

     

    Saturn was not a sub-brand nor was Scion.  Those are brands.

     

    Mercedes-AMG is a sub-brand.  These 4 products could be called Mercedes-EV rather than Mercedes-Benz.  But it will start with Mercedes and have a 3 point star.  And making a pure EV E-class would be a dumb idea since you have huge hood space to accommodate a V and a center tunnel for drive shaft and exhaust, both of which an EV doesn't need, you don't need a huge firewall behind the engine block.  An EV needs a place for batteries, and can have a flat floor, more space, more open dash board, etc.    The B-class EV is an example of the wrong way to build an EV, but they made it for compliance purposes.

     

    Mercedes will have 10 plug-in hybrids, so if you want some electric drive capability on a C-class, GLE, E-class, etc, they are selling that option.  If you want a Tesla style car, they will have that option too.

     

    Luckily Mercedes is not limited to $12 billion over 5 years for new product.   And they won't build stupid stuff like a plug-in hybrid sports car that costs $150,000 that is slower than other $150,000 sports cars, or an ugly looking box on 3 inch wide tires.

    Two words for you.

     

    So what? You want to basically insult Cadillac and GM for using the GMT platform for the Escalade but still give a free pass to Mercedes going one step beyond that and using someone else's truck. Maybe if you would stop sticking your foot in your mouth regarding this, you would not get called out on it so much.

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    Without question; MB has been watching BMW's floundering with the "i" sub-brand, and they are hedging their bets by intentionally not 'cross-pollinating' the core lines with this EV experiment.

     

    Meanwhile, they will spend 10 times the money in development, testing, branding, advertising, etc… when instead they should pour those monies into developing a unilateral platform that readily accepts both ICE & EV powertr—— HE-EEEEYY! LOOK @ OUR NEW REBADGED NISSAN PICK 'EM UP TRUCK! IT'S THE MERCEDES OF NISSANS!

     

    :P

    For a second there I thought you were talking about the rebadged Nissan van with the bow tie on it.

    My bad.

     

    Apples to oranges. Mainstream Chevy borrowing a van from mainstream Nissan? Odd but not unusual nor does it cheapen the overall brand. Luxury car makers Mercedes borrowing a pick up from mainstream Nissan is a different beast altogether. Your trolling was obvious and debunked.

    Why doesn't Cadillac build the CT6 off the Escalade platform?  They are about the same size.  Oh right, different purpose for the vehicle and building a CT6 on a 5,900 lb truck chassis would make it slow and thirsty with bad handling, the opposite of what they are trying to achieve.  Maybe the Cruze and Corvette shoudl share one platform since they are both Chevy's of similar size.

     

    Tesla doesn't build cars on a gas powered car platform.  They have a flat floor, more leg room for passengers and the rear middle seat is actually usable and more front console space since you don't have to build around a tunnel.  The Volt was always dogged for poor interior room and gen 1 was a 4 passenger car because of the tunnel of batteries running down the middle.

     

    Obviously Mercedes wishes to build the "Best" EV platform there is, so they want to start from scratch and not use the MRA platform or load 500 lbs of batteries under the hood of an S-class.  They know what they are doing when it comes to building cars.

     

    The sub-brand is where I am not sold, because they can make an EV sedan faster than an E63, or faster than an AMG GT, so that should be an AMG model.  Or how awesome would a 600 hp electric Maybach be that has no engine noise. 

    Seriously? 

     

    Good grief. No wonder no one can talk to you. You just go back in the same pointless circle every time Mercedes gets called out.

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    Mercedes isn't building a luxury vehicle on a Nissan pickup.  They might also use the Nissan chassis, but their own suspension, engine, transmission, body panels, interior, etc.  Until we see it, it is hard to judge it.  Mercedes wants a commercial vehicle pick up, they traded their A-class platform for Nissan's tuck platform to make it feasible.  Commercial vehicles are part of their business in Europe.  It might still be the best commercial pick up there is.

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