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    William Maley

    Don't Expect A Midsize Truck From Ram

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      Ram's Brand Boss Can't Make A Case For A Midsize Ram Truck

    You would think that with the introduction of the Chevrolet Colorado/GMC Terrain and refreshed Toyota Tacoma, the likes of Ford and Ram would be getting in the midsize truck action. But Ram boss Bob Hegbloom can't make it work for the brand. The problem according to Automotive News is the price of higher fuel economy.

    Hegbloom explained that back in the heyday of midsize trucks - the 1980's - consumers bought them because they were considerably smaller, less expensive, and boasted impressive fuel economy. Although midsize trucks had less capability than their full-size compatriots, consumers didn't mind.

    "When you look at those four factors, that's truly what a midsize pickup customer is looking for. I've been able to develop a strategy to come up with three of the four -- and even with what's out there on the market today, I haven't seen anyone who can deliver on all four," said Hegbloom.

    To Hegbloom, a midsize truck from Ram would have to achieve 35 MPG on the highway. The Ram 1500 EcoDiesel can achieve 29 MPG on the highway.

    "If full-size now is pushing 30 [mpg], you're going to expect a midsize to be at least at 35. You're also going to expect it to be significantly less expensive. But to bring the technology in to deliver on 35 mpg, then you're going to raise the price," said Hegbloom.

    Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required)

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    This is where the Compact pickup truck could excel. Forget the mid size and build a true compact pickup truck.

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    It's not just about fuel economy.  Some people just don't want to wheel around a full size truck no matter how great the fuel economy is... it is simply too much vehicle for them to handle. 

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    I don't want/need a midsize truck. I have owned a '95 Chevy S10 and an '80 Dodge D50.  I just need 4 cylinders and a 6 foot bed. For me anything more is overkill.

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    Why RAM hasn't come out with a small pickup based on the FIAT 'Small-Wide' (and its 4x4 derivative (Jeep Renegade)) platform is beyond me. That'd be a perfect base to build a pickup for urban/suburban use, and would likely hit the fuel economy targets that RAM needs. 

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    Why RAM hasn't come out with a small pickup based on the FIAT 'Small-Wide' (and its 4x4 derivative (Jeep Renegade)) platform is beyond me. That'd be a perfect base to build a pickup for urban/suburban use, and would likely hit the fuel economy targets that RAM needs. 

     

    A Renegade EXT would be killar!

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    Sucky Photo shop that I am, wish I could figure out how people keep the background and edit the car but this is what I think the standard cab would look like for a Jeep Renegade Truckpost-12-0-24912400-1428437835_thumb.jpg

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    It's too bad they haven't built the Wrangler based pickup like the concept from a few years ago..that was cool and stylish.

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    :roflmao: Thanks Ocn for the laugh. I agree it would be wicked if it did happen for a compact pickup that City and Suburban peeps would love with High Gas mileage.

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    It's too bad they haven't built the Wrangler based pickup like the concept from a few years ago..that was cool and stylish.

     

    That may be the biggest single reason Ram won't get one.... they are serious about bringing a Wrangler pickup in the next generation. 

     

    .... all of the BS about fuel economy is just that.... bs.  GM sold over 9,000 of their new pickups in February with no decrease in sales of Silverado or Sierra.... and no decrease in sales of the Tacoma (up 13%)  or Frontier (up 5.4%).  The GM twins came out of no-where and are now outselling the Tundra and Frontier even though both of those models are still posting increasing sales. 

     

    The mid-size truck market is growing and Ram ignores it at their own peril. 

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    I think everyone is watching GM still.  There have been small Ram truck mules spotted, but they are still denying it.  GM built such a fantastic midsizer they really raised the bar.  i own 2 3rd gen Dakota regular cabs and find the size perfect for me. 

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    I think everyone is watching GM still.  There have been small Ram truck mules spotted, but they are still denying it.  GM built such a fantastic midsizer they really raised the bar.  i own 2 3rd gen Dakota regular cabs and find the size perfect for me. 

     

    I don't know how much longer FCA can sit it out and watch.  Wentzville workers just got their lunch break slashed  just so GM could squeeze out an extra 3,500 trucks a year and adding 1,000 flex workers to get another 2,000 trucks a month. 

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    the big question is, how big of a market is out there?  I think there are buyers left, but the reason the midsize truck world died in the first place was because of lack of sales.  I do think GM needs to up production BIG TIME, especially when the diesel comes out.  I have driven a new Z71 and it was amazing and IMHO sets a new standard. 

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    The reason the mid-size truck market died is because the products were left to rot on the vine. That's why there were no sales. GM is proving the existence of a market now with worthy products.

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    Would be cool if FCA were to make a pickup trucklet out of the Renegade... but then GMC would need to dust off the Granite CUV and pickup and put them into production.  Not a bad thing, imo!

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    The reason the mid-size truck market died is because the products were left to rot on the vine. That's why there were no sales. GM is proving the existence of a market now with worthy products.

    Not exactly, a lot had to do with price.  At the time the difference between a midsize and fullsize was very small.  that could easily change now since fullsize trucks have gotten ridiculously expensive, that is where they have to be careful.  IMHO, if we see a midsize truck from FCA it will be a Jeep wrangler based truck or a shared platform between ram an Jeep. 

     

    the interesting thing, they can do thise.  underneath the skin the 2WD and 4x4  3rd gen Dakotas were totally different trucks.  they could do the same for a Ram and Jeep truck.

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    To Hegbloom, a midsize truck from Ram would have to achieve 35 MPG on the highway. The Ram 1500 EcoDiesel can achieve 29 MPG on the highway.

    "If full-size now is pushing 30 [mpg], you're going to expect a midsize to be at least at 35. You're also going to expect it to be significantly less expensive. But to bring the technology in to deliver on 35 mpg, then you're going to raise the price," said Hegbloom.

     

    That is such an incredibly weak excuse, GM's midsize twins are a big win in the truck market. It's clear that a less expensive, smaller, more efficient truck has a solid consumer base. They wont build a midsize truck because it can't match the ecodiesel? Come on. We all know the real reason is that their resources are stretched thin right now. Ram as a brand needs another consumer product.

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    The reason the mid-size truck market died is because the products were left to rot on the vine. That's why there were no sales. GM is proving the existence of a market now with worthy products.

    Not exactly, a lot had to do with price.  At the time the difference between a midsize and fullsize was very small.  that could easily change now since fullsize trucks have gotten ridiculously expensive, that is where they have to be careful.  IMHO, if we see a midsize truck from FCA it will be a Jeep wrangler based truck or a shared platform between ram an Jeep. 

     

    the interesting thing, they can do thise.  underneath the skin the 2WD and 4x4  3rd gen Dakotas were totally different trucks.  they could do the same for a Ram and Jeep truck.

    I'm not buying (ahem) the pricing argument. Based on what I see up here a loaded Canyon/Colorado up here rings in about the same as a reasonably-equipped half-ton.

    I think the production bottleneck Mopar is now facing as far as its trucks go is also a bit of a factor. Ram production is now maxed out, and I don't know how much flexibility Toledo would have to build a Wrangler-based pickup.

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    Ram would do well to ignore the mid size market and go with compact. The compact market is just waiting to explode with solid high mileage trucks.

     

    Perfect example is the Chevy Luv / Isuzu Pup trucks with diesel and they did outstanding on gas mileage and met most suburban and inner city owners needs.

     

    Not everything needs to be Crewcab size. I truly believe they could rule the compact market by taking the Cherokee platform or the Wrangler and build a compact truck that would be very successful. Ford left their compact ranger to rot and yet still sold a ton of them showing a market for a compact truck does exist.

     

    America could get their butts kicked if China brings in a cheap Compact truck that does what most inner city and suburban people want. bed capacity of 1000lbs, towing of 2000lbs and no more. 

     

    1982 Chevy Luv Diesel was 30 City/ 36 highway. http://www.aboutautomobile.com/Fuel/1982/Chevrolet/LUV

     

    Just think how a compact truck with a modern diesel or CNG engine would rock in the High 30's low 40's or better.

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    The reason the mid-size truck market died is because the products were left to rot on the vine. That's why there were no sales. GM is proving the existence of a market now with worthy products.

    Not exactly, a lot had to do with price.  At the time the difference between a midsize and fullsize was very small.  that could easily change now since fullsize trucks have gotten ridiculously expensive, that is where they have to be careful.  IMHO, if we see a midsize truck from FCA it will be a Jeep wrangler based truck or a shared platform between ram an Jeep. 

     

    the interesting thing, they can do thise.  underneath the skin the 2WD and 4x4  3rd gen Dakotas were totally different trucks.  they could do the same for a Ram and Jeep truck.

    I'm not buying (ahem) the pricing argument. Based on what I see up here a loaded Canyon/Colorado up here rings in about the same as a reasonably-equipped half-ton.

    I think the production bottleneck Mopar is now facing as far as its trucks go is also a bit of a factor. Ram production is now maxed out, and I don't know how much flexibility Toledo would have to build a Wrangler-based pickup.

     

    No, I was talking about the last gen Dakota, etc.  The Colorado really is a bargain and I was actually surprised at the amount of equipment the 34k Colorado I drove had.  And yes, prodcution could be the hickup.  Did they ever actually explain that discuised midsize mule spotted a few weeks ago?

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    The GM trucks aren't selling on price, they are selling on smaller size.  There are plenty of people who would like to have a truck but don't want to wheel around the behemoths the 1/2-ton models have become. 

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    The GM trucks aren't selling on price, they are selling on smaller size.  There are plenty of people who would like to have a truck but don't want to wheel around the behemoths the 1/2-ton models have become. 

    I believe it is selling on both aspects.  If it was a crappy truck, it wouldn't sell despite price and size.  i loved the Z71 I rove and it had basically everything I would want plus some.

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    The GM trucks aren't selling on price, they are selling on smaller size.  There are plenty of people who would like to have a truck but don't want to wheel around the behemoths the 1/2-ton models have become. 

    I believe it is selling on both aspects.  If it was a crappy truck, it wouldn't sell despite price and size.  i loved the Z71 I rove and it had basically everything I would want plus some.

     

     

    Well... no... I feel that the GM trucks are rather expensive for their size.  As some have pointed out, full-size trucks aren't much more expensive.  The GMers are selling in-spite of their price... not because they are cheap. 

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    The GM trucks aren't selling on price, they are selling on smaller size.  There are plenty of people who would like to have a truck but don't want to wheel around the behemoths the 1/2-ton models have become. 

    I believe it is selling on both aspects.  If it was a crappy truck, it wouldn't sell despite price and size.  i loved the Z71 I rove and it had basically everything I would want plus some.

     

     

    Well... no... I feel that the GM trucks are rather expensive for their size.  As some have pointed out, full-size trucks aren't much more expensive.  The GMers are selling in-spite of their price... not because they are cheap. 

     

    I still disagree.  The Colorado i drove was an extended cab Z71, it had all the power stuff, my-link, backup camera, tow package, locking rear, a few dealer add-ons (bright exhaust tip, yadded, yadda), and it still was only 34k.  price a silverado out with all this truck had and i would bet you are 10k more in price.  Heck, i have priced out a minimal options regular cab Z71 and sticker was over 40k and it didn't have everything the Colorado had.   I used to think they were overpriced myself, but GM has reall stuffed a LOT of content for the price in these trucks.  Another thing besides price and size is that these are such sublime driving trucks.  Super smooth, excellent ride, beautiful interior, etc, etc.  As I said, they have raised the bar. 

     

    Anyways, back to the topic at hand.  If FCA does a midsize, they have to do the Wrangler based pickup.  There are people just salivating at this thing, especially paired with the Ecodiesel.  they can make a Dakota off the same platform with more traditional styling and higher focus on the on-road portion of things. 

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      View full article
    • By Drew Dowdell
      Ram has announced the pricing on the Ram 1500 EcoDiesel. The lowest priced model will be a Quad Cab 2wd Tradesman model, starting at $38,585 including destination charges.  The EcoDiesel is a $4,995 option, making it about $3,000 more expensive than a V8 Hemi-eTorque. 
      The EcoDiesel takes the crown as the half-ton diesel with the highest amount of torque, 480 lb-ft at 1,600 rpm, and highest towing capacity in the class at 12,560 lbs. Horsepower is rated at 260 at 3,600 rpm, an 8 percent increase over the previous version. Fuel economy ratings will be announced closer to release in Q4 this year.
      The new EcoDiesel will be available in all trims and configurations including the Ram Classic and the Ram Rebel. 
      Here is how the Ram EcoDiesel stacks up to the completion from GM and Ford. 
      RAM - 260 horsepower / 480 lb-ft at 1,600 rpm
      GM - 277 horsepower / 460 lb-ft at 1,500 rpm
      Ford - 250 horsepower / 440 lb-ft at 1,750 rpm

      Related:
      GM Delays Diesel Launch; Expands 6.2 V8 Availability
      GM Inline-6 Diesel Rated
      Ford Releases Details on 2018 F-150 Diesel
      Ram Press Release on Page 2


       
      Pricing Announced for New 2020 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel
       
      2020 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel pricing starts at $36,890, plus $1,695 destination New Ram 1500 EcoDiesel produces the highest half-ton diesel torque at 480 lb.-ft. and highest half-ton diesel towing capacity at 12,560 pounds Ram 1500 Rebel now available with EcoDiesel option for the first time Ram focused on establishing powertrain technology leadership in the truck segment Class-exclusive air suspension enhances fuel economy, improves ride control, off-road capability, ease of entry and exit, cargo-loading effort and features automatic load leveling August 16, 2019 , Auburn Hills, Mich. - Ram Truck today announced pricing for the 2020 Ram 1500 powered by the new 3.0-liter V-6 EcoDiesel engine with a Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) starting at $­­­­­­36,890 for the Tradesman Quad Cab 2WD, plus $1,695 destination.
       
      The EcoDiesel is a $4,995 option, or $3,000 premium over the 5.7-liter HEMI® V-8 eTorque ($3,300 on Tradesman, Big Horn/Lone Star, Rebel and Laramie base models).
       
      “The Ram 1500 EcoDiesel offers the best torque and towing among all half-ton diesel trucks,” said Reid Bigland, Head of Ram Brand. “Now with a 10-year track record, the Ram brand has emerged as a truck powertrain technology leader. Overall, the Ram 1500 EcoDiesel has outstanding pick-up truck capability and is truly in a class of its own.”
       
      The 2020 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel is available across all models and configurations, including a first-time offering in the Ram Rebel.
       
      The Ram 1500’s all-new 3.0-liter V-6 EcoDiesel leads the half-ton pickup truck segment in torque with 480 lb.-ft. and diesel towing capability of 12,560 pounds.

      The 2019 Ram 1500 Classic is also offered with the second-generation 3.0-liter EcoDiesel. Pricing for the Ram 1500 Classic EcoDiesel (Crew Cab 4x2) starts at $39,140, plus destination.
       
      Fuel economy ratings will be announced closer to when trucks go on sale early in the fourth quarter of this year.
       
      All-new EcoDiesel engine
      The third generation of the turbocharged EcoDiesel V-6 delivers increased torque and horsepower, along with superb fuel economy and minimal levels of noise, vibration and harshness (NVH) to meet the needs of Ram 1500 owners.
       
      In the 2020 Ram 1500, the 3.0-liter EcoDiesel V-6 is rated at a best-in-class 480 lb.-ft. of torque at 1,600 rpm, a 14 percent increase from the previous-generation EcoDiesel V-6, which peaks 400 rpm earlier. Horsepower increases 8 percent to 260 hp at 3,600 rpm.
       
      Several significant changes contribute to the new EcoDiesel’s improved dynamic and fuel economy performance. A new-generation water-cooled turbocharger with variable geometry is more efficient and provides improved response as engine rpms rise and fall Redesigned intake ports to improve engine performance and fuel economy Introduction of a dual, high-pressure and low-pressure exhaust gas recirculation system, a first for a diesel engine in North America. The EcoDiesel’s existing high-pressure EGR, with cooling exhaust gases drawn from the exhaust manifold, is augmented with a low-pressure EGR system that draws exhaust gases after they exit the diesel particulate filter. The addition of cooler, low-pressure exhaust gas makes a significant contribution to improved fuel economy and lower oxides of nitrogen (NOx) The compression ratio is changed to 16.0:1 from 16.5:1, which helps reduce exhaust emissions, particularly NOx Redesigned high-pressure (29,000 psi/2,000 bar) direct-injection fuel injector nozzles Combustion chamber geometry optimized to improve fuel economy Redesigned aluminum-alloy pistons improve fuel economy. The redesigned pistons use thinner piston rings and coating on the side skits to reduce friction The piston pin is offset 0.3 degrees from the centerline to reduce “piston slap” against the cylinder wall, minimizing NVH The lower portion of the two-piece oil sump uses a sandwiched polymer/metal material to reduce NVH The Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR) system is 50 percent larger and incorporates a new-generation diesel oxidation catalyst with the Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) system to reduce NOx New-generation brake system vacuum pump with low-friction blades contributes to improved fuel economy The upgrades build on the EcoDiesel V-6’s attributes and performance that made it a winner of Wards 10 Best Engines award for three consecutive years.
       
      The 3.0-liter EcoDiesel V-6 uses dual overhead camshafts (DOHC) with four valves per cylinder and a 60-degree angle between the cylinder banks. The block is cast with compacted graphite iron, which provides strength to dampen vibrations, but weighs less than grey cast iron. A compacted graphite iron bedplate adds rigidity to the block.
       
      The EcoDiesel V-6 uses a forged steel crankshaft and connecting rods for strength and durability. The aluminum alloy pistons are cooled on the underside via oil jets. Heat-treated aluminum cylinder heads use individual bearing caps to reduce friction and minimize NVH. The chain-driven overhead camshafts employ roller-finger followers.
       
      The 3.0-liter EcoDiesel V-6 is produced at the FCA Cento facility in Ferrara, Italy.
       
      Ram 1500
      The 2020 Ram 1500 is the no-compromise benchmark for durability, technology, efficiency and convenience with features never before offered in a pickup. The Ram 1500 features up to 12,750 pounds of towing capability (5.7-liter HEMI V-8) and 2,300 pounds of payload. Ram’s eTorque mild hybrid system delivers improved fuel efficiency in both V-6 (standard) and V-8 configurations. As a segment disrupter, the new Uconnect 4C with a massive 12-inch touchscreen leads the pickup world in technology, featuring split-screen capability, 360-degree camera views and exclusive content from SiriusXM with 360L. Active safety and security systems include adaptive cruise control, Forward Collision Warning, Blind-spot Monitoring and Ready Alert Braking. Class-leading ride and handling is accomplished via a class-exclusive link-coil rear suspension system with optional Active-level four-corner air suspension. The 2020 Ram 1500 also features twice the interior storage capacity versus the competition.
       
      Unsurpassed powertrain warranty – five years/100,000 miles
      The 2020 Ram 1500 is backed with a five-year /100,000-mile Powertrain Limited Warranty. The powertrain-limited warranty covers the cost of all parts and labor needed to repair a covered powertrain component – engine, transmission and drive system.
       
      The standard three-year/36,000-mile Basic Limited Warranty provides bumper-to-bumper coverage for the Ram 1500, from the body to the electrical system.
       
      Manufacturing
      The 2020 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel is built at the Sterling Heights Assembly Plant (SHAP) in Sterling Heights, Michigan.
       
      About Ram Truck Brand
      In 2009, the Ram Truck brand launched as a stand-alone division, focused on meeting the demands of truck buyers and delivering benchmark-quality vehicles.
       
      That focus leads Ram to design the industry’s most innovative, award-winning trucks, emphasizing durability, strength, technology and efficiency.
       
      With a full lineup of trucks, including ProMaster and ProMaster City vans, the Ram brand builds trucks that get the hard work done and families where they need to go. From the no-compromise Ram 1500 that defines the future of pickup trucks with innovative design, the highest quality materials and class-exclusive technology, to the Ram Heavy Duty which combines the ability to out-power, out-tow and out-haul every single competitor with the segment’s most comfortable ride and handling, Ram is committed to product leadership.
       
      Ram continues to outperform the competition and sets the benchmarks for: Most powerful: 1,000 lb.-ft of torque with Cummins Turbo Diesel Highest towing capacity: 35,100 lbs. with Ram 3500 Heaviest payloads: 7,680 lbs. with Ram 3500 Most luxurious: Ram Limited with real wood, real leather and 12-inch Uconnect touchscreen Best ride and handling with exclusive link coil rear and auto-level air suspensions Most interior space with Ram Mega Cab Most capable full-size off-road pickup – Ram Power Wagon Most-awarded light-duty truck in America Highest owner loyalty of any half-ton pickup Over the last 30 years, Ram has the highest percentage of pickups still on the road
      Giving maximum effort all day, every day with confidence, the Ram Truck lineup steps forward with the full force of modern capability providing confidence-inspiring features and class-exclusive vehicle safety.
    • By Drew Dowdell
      The Ram Classic could live on indefinitely as long as it make business sense says FCA CEO Michael Manley.  At an investors meeting, Manley suggested that it might even get an update. Ram recently introduced a new Warlock package on the 1500 Classic, indicating their willingness to invest in the aging platform.
      Ram currently doesn't have a mid-size offering in its stable, and without one on the horizon, the Ram 1500 Classic fills the niche of a lower priced truck.  The base Tradesman model rings up at $29,340 and can be configured all the way up to a Big Horn with a 5.7 liter Hemi V8 at $46,240. That contrasts with the new Ram 1500 which starts at $35,135.
      One thing keeping the Classic around has done is allowed the RAM to creep ahead of the Chevrolet Silverado in the truck sales race, moving to the number two spot in market share for this class of truck. 
       

      View full article
    • By Drew Dowdell
      The Ram Classic could live on indefinitely as long as it make business sense says FCA CEO Michael Manley.  At an investors meeting, Manley suggested that it might even get an update. Ram recently introduced a new Warlock package on the 1500 Classic, indicating their willingness to invest in the aging platform.
      Ram currently doesn't have a mid-size offering in its stable, and without one on the horizon, the Ram 1500 Classic fills the niche of a lower priced truck.  The base Tradesman model rings up at $29,340 and can be configured all the way up to a Big Horn with a 5.7 liter Hemi V8 at $46,240. That contrasts with the new Ram 1500 which starts at $35,135.
      One thing keeping the Classic around has done is allowed the RAM to creep ahead of the Chevrolet Silverado in the truck sales race, moving to the number two spot in market share for this class of truck. 
       
  • Posts

    • I don't see an Audi A6 with a 174hp 2.0T engine that is the only one available in the Passat.  I think the article was stupid to point out the truck engine relationship anyways given how differently tuned they are.      
    • I Think Dfelt said it best in the links he has above. But  I think some of the biggest is simply not beating the car down, and simply changing the oil often. My neighbor has a 16 Chevy Trax with the 1.4 turbo. The car is now a bit over 115k. She has not needed to resolve anything but basic service stuff (Fluids, tires, brakes) so far. The car gets an synthetic oil change every 3 months, regardless of mileage. I got to take it for a quick test drive before we got our 20 Trax.  It still runs great with no issues. If I keep my turbo cars (most likely) I just have to make sure they get extra love....and not abused to keep  them in good running shape....
    • It’s not going to ‘get killed’. This is standard industry practice now, widespread sharing. In fact- it’s now embraced, except, of course, at GM or Ford. Audi A6 comes with a VW passat engine. Unfortunately for audi, the passat-base is no where near the level of the Silverado. Not that you’ll ever read any “UH-OH” articles focusing on that at Audi.
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