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Toyota News: Don't Expect A Turbo or Hybrid C-HR For U.S.


William Maley

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To say we were slightly disappointed to find out that the U.S.-Spec Toyota C-HR would only come with a 2.0L four-cylinder producing 144 horsepower would be an understatement. The European-spec C-HR has the choice of either a turbocharged 1.2L four or a hybrid, but neither of these powertrains will be showing up in the U.S.

Car and Driver spoke with the C-HR's chief engineer, Hiroyuki Koba to find out why. Koba didn't say why the turbocharged 1.2L would not come to the U.S., but we're guessing Toyota didn't want to put the effort in getting this engine certified for the U.S. Also, performance numbers between the 2.0L and turbo 1.2L are similar (11 seconds for the 2.0 to hit 60 mph, 11.1 seconds for the 1.2).

As for the hybrid, Koba said the decision comes down to the market, not engineering. At the moment, Toyota doesn't see the demand for this model in the U.S.

Koba did admit there is a possibility for a more powerful version of the C-HR, but quickly added there aren't plans for this at the moment.

Source: Car and Driver


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Dud on arrival.

No AWD, No Turbo, No Hybrid.

Quote

At the moment, Toyota doesn't see the demand for this model in the U.S.

I don't see the demand for the entire model... not just the hybrid version.

It's a slightly lifted Matrix without the utility, space, AWD.... or heck... even the speed.... and the Matrix was no barn burner. 

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17 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Dud on arrival.

No AWD, No Turbo, No Hybrid.

I don't see the demand for the entire model... not just the hybrid version.

It's a slightly lifted Matrix without the utility, space, AWD.... or heck... even the speed.... and the Matrix was no barn burner. 

Toyota is too conservative in their corporate culture.  The Supra, which was supposed to be a uniquely styled super car, is looking like it will look like a late 1990's prelude. The Flagship LS 400 is bland for a car at that price point....almost to the point of absurdity.

The Camry is riding on a 2002 platform IIRC.

Limited options with the 86, the one interesting vehicle they build....and limited additional development.

Corolla is decent but outclassed by the Mazda 3 and several other cars in its segment...and no additional development money from Toyota. 

Prius sells well in other markets but the current car has serious limitations in this market.

Tundra is outclassed by domestics with eleventy billion more packages and options...

Tacoma is nice for what it is but really pricey...

They are not convincing me that they want to move forward with this latest offering.

 

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1 minute ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Toyota is too conservative in their corporate culture.  The Supra, which was supposed to be a uniquely styled super car, is looking like it will look like a late 1990's prelude. The Flagship LS 400 is bland for a car at that price point....almost to the point of absurdity.

The Camry is riding on a 2002 platform IIRC.

Limited options with the 86, the one interesting vehicle they build....and limited additional development.

Corolla is decent but outclassed by the Mazda 3 and several other cars in its segment...and no additional development money from Toyota. 

Prius sells well in other markets but the current car has serious limitations in this market.

Tundra is outclassed by domestics with eleventy billion more packages and options...

Tacoma is nice for what it is but really pricey...

They are not convincing me that they want to move forward with this latest offering.

 

Remember, this was a car that was supposed to be for Scion.  It makes me wonder if Toyota North America even wanted it, but it was already developed so they had to take it and now they don't know what to do with it. 

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Just now, Drew Dowdell said:

Remember, this was a car that was supposed to be for Scion.  It makes me wonder if Toyota North America even wanted it, but it was already developed so they had to take it and now they don't know what to do with it. 

Existentially Toyota is not sure of itself or where it is going...it is not just this car....

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3 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said:

This entire endeavor is a failure.

It would be nice if VW brought out a product in this amrket segment, ti would be a much ncier car than this...

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1 hour ago, A Horse With No Name said:

It would be nice if VW brought out a product in this amrket segment, ti would be a much ncier car than this...

 

Word from those in the know is that something like this is being considered. With the Tiguan growing in size, there is certainly room for such an offering.

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GOOD, no crappy hybrid.  Very telling that the hybrid won't appear in a car that is supposed to sell to "hip young millenials"' don't you think?  ESPECIALLY from Toyota?  And DOUBLE ESPECIALLY since it already exists elsewhere?  ;)

Still needs the option of AWD, and a stick though.

Edited by ocnblu
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I expect minimal demographic interest, but visually it is a sharp product.  Comes down to price.  Few people put 'turbo' on their small CUV purchase wish list.  Scratch that, nobody puts it on their list.  People want cute and dynamic and value and efficient and roomy.  And duh, most cars sold today by far, do not include a hybrid option.  I do expect some lost sales from no AWD however.

 

I like it.  

Edited by Wings4Life
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2 hours ago, Wings4Life said:

I expect minimal demographic interest, but visually it is a sharp product.  Comes down to price.  Few people put 'turbo' on their small CUV purchase wish list.  Scratch that, nobody puts it on their list.  People want cute and dynamic and value and efficient and roomy.  And duh, most cars sold today by far, do not include a hybrid option.  I do expect some lost sales from no AWD however.

 

I like it.  

Having sat in it already, I'm going to disagree with you here.  The interior is cramped and most politely described as austere. The cargo area is very small.  A naturally aspirated 2.0 with 144 hp is going to feel sluggish compared to a Turbo-DI of the same net output... and I say that because the old Matrix with 158 hp felt sluggish and overworked in normal traffic. 

I see the target demographic as young single Asian women in non-snowbelt cities who have few friends because they just moved to town.

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1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Having sat in it already, I'm going to disagree with you here.  The interior is cramped and most politely described as austere. The cargo area is very small.  A naturally aspirated 2.0 with 144 hp is going to feel sluggish compared to a Turbo-DI of the same net output... and I say that because the old Matrix with 158 hp felt sluggish and overworked in normal traffic. 

I see the target demographic as young single Asian women in non-snowbelt cities who have few friends because they just moved to town.

I don't think anyone's expectations for a $20K base MSRP CUV should be too high.  Everything seems proportional to price.  Styling is spot on for the demographic. Quality should be excellent. I see little to dislike.

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Just now, Wings4Life said:

I don't think anyone's expectations for a $20K base MSRP CUV should be too high.  Everything seems proportional to price.  Styling is spot on for the demographic. Quality should be excellent. I see little to dislike.

The Ford EcoSport is better, the Chevrolet Trax is better, the Nissan Juke is better, the Jeep Renegade is better, the Honda HR-V is better, the Mazda CX3 is better.  They all start at $20k.  They all have AWD available. Most have the same or better horsepower.... or a turbo-4 that has sufficient low end grunt. All except the Juke have more room. All have nicer looking interiors.

The Subaru Crosstrek is only $1,500 more.

It's not like the C-HR is a particularly attractive or "cute" vehicle like a MiniCooper.

Just about the only thing that will sell this vehicle to people is the Toyota badge.  This is something you get your teenage daughter if you live in Plano Texas and are negotiating a deal on a Tundra for yourself.

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On 2016-12-03 at 0:25 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

Having sat in it already, I'm going to disagree with you here.  The interior is cramped and most politely described as austere. The cargo area is very small.

Having also sat in one, my perception was quite different : room enough to adjust driving position and ample rear leg room to "sit behind me". Rather claustrophobic than cramped. With all those different colors, materials, textures, creases, accent lines and driver-oriented "in your face semi-floating screen" the interior could be anything but austere. I agree the boot is on the small side for the size of that thing, but not CX-3 small (let's not forget that the CH-R is bigger than HR-V, CX-3 or Renegade in the first place).

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      Model: Prius AWD-e
      Trim: XLE
      Engine: 1.8L DOHC 16-Valve VVT-i Four-Cylinder, AC Synchronous Motor
      Driveline: ECVT, All Wheel Drive
      Horsepower @ RPM: 96 @ 5,200 (Gas): 71 @ 0 (Electric Motor 1): 7 @ 0 (Electric Motor 2): 121 (Combined)
      Torque @ RPM: 105 @ 3,600 (Gas): 
      Fuel Economy: City/Highway/Combined - 52/48/50
      Curb Weight: 3,220 lbs
      Location of Manufacture: 
      Base Price: $28,375
      As Tested Price: $31,757 (Includes $995.00 Destination Charge)
      Options:
      Advanced Technology Package - $800.00
      Year: 2020
      Make: Toyota
      Model: Corolla Hatchback
      Trim: XSE
      Engine: 2.0 DOHC 15-Valve D-4S with Dual VVT-i Four-Cylinder
      Driveline: Six-Speed Manual, Front-Wheel Drive
      Horsepower @ RPM: 168 @ 6,600
      Torque @ RPM: 151 @ 4,800
      Fuel Economy: City/Highway/Combined - 28/37/31
      Curb Weight: 3,060 lbs
      Location of Manufacture: Aichi, Japan
      Base Price: $23,240
      As Tested Price: $26,450 (Includes $955.00 Destination Charge)
      Options:
      Black Roof, Spoiler, and Side Mirrors - $500.00
      Adaptive Headlights - $415.00
      Rear Window Spoiler - $375.00
      Carpet Mat Package - $249.00
      Door Sill Protectors - $165.00
      Black Emblem Overlays - $129.00
      Mudguards - $129.00
      Door Edge Guard - $125.00
      Rear Bumper Protector - $89.00
      TRD Air Filter - $79.00
    • By William Maley
      For your consideration: Two unlikely sport sedans.
      The Toyota Camry TRD and Lexus ES 350 F-Sport may not seem like credible sport sedans at first glance. They may seem like tarted-up sedans in terms of looks, but nothing else. However, after spending a week in each one, I can say both are the real deal.
      Camry TRD
      This Camry is in your face about its sporting potential. It comes with a front splitter, side skirts, a distinct rear spoiler, and 19-inch TRD wheels with a matte black finish. I found it to be a bit much and wished Toyota offered a package that got you the goodies for the suspension and exhaust system while keeping the looks of a standard Camry. A sleeper of sorts. TRD models come with small touches inside such as red seatbelts, red stitching on the seats and dash; leather-wrapped steering wheel, and TRD floor mats. Otherwise, it is your standard Camry interior. Power comes from a 3.5L V6 with 301 horsepower and 267 pound-feet of torque. Yes, that's the same output as the Camry XLE V6 I drove earlier. But what TRD has done is added a new exhaust system that provides a nice growl. I'll admit I was surprised when I blipped the throttle at a stoplight and heard what came out. This is an engine you have to work slightly to get into its sweet spot of power - around the mid-range on the rpm band. But once you do, the engine delivers a smooth punch of power. I do wish the six-speed automatic wouldn't try to go into the highest gear ASAP to maximize fuel economy. Where TRD worked their magic is with the suspension. The car is lower than a standard Camry, along with being stiffer thanks to thicker underbody braces, stabilizer bars, and shocks. On a winding road, the Camry TRD feels much more athletic than the standard Camry with minimal body and a set of summer tires providing excellent grip. The only downside is the steering which needs a bit more weight. Ride quality is a bit more firm than a standard Camry, but the suspension does a decent job of minimizing the bumps and impacts. To top it all off, Toyota has priced the Camry TRD at a surprising point. With the two-tone paint on my tester, it comes at $32,920 - making this the cheapest way to get a V6 in a Camry. The added bonus is that the TRD is also the most fun you can have in Camry.
      ES 350 F-Sport
      Lexus takes a more sedate approach with the ES F-Sport with a mesh grille insert, new wheels, and a small lip spoiler. I think if they went overboard with the sporty touches, it would ruin the elegance of the standard ES design. I will say the grey on my tester makes the F-Sport kind of look somewhat bland. Going with either the blue or red helps it stand out. Under the hood is the same 3.5L V6 found in other ES 350s, producing 301 hp and 267 lb-ft. The behavior is similar to what I found in the Camry, needing to work it before a smooth rush of power comes on. The transmission doesn't have the same programming as the Camry's with trying to maximize fuel economy. It is ready to downshift at a moment's notice. I've praised the standard ES for making a real leap forward in handling as there is less body motion on windy roads when compared to the previous model. The F-Sport takes that a step further with a revised suspension and optional adaptive dampers - which my car had. Slip the drive mode into Sport+ and ES transforms into something that you can pilot with confidence on a twisty stretch of road. The dampers firm up to make body roll non-existent, and the steering feels more weighty when turning. When you decide to stop having fun and turn the drive knob to either normal or comfort, the F-Sport transforms a standard ES with a smooth and quiet ride. The price? Base is $44,635 and this fully-loaded tester comes in at $53,950 with destination. A bit hard to swallow when you consider that the Avalon TRD offers similar performance for slightly less money. But not everyone wants a sedan that screams "look at me", and thats where the ES 350 F-Sport shines. It may be sporty, but it keeps quiet about its intentions. Disclaimer: Toyota and Lexus Provided the vehicles, Insurance, and One Tank of Gas
      Year: 2020
      Make: Toyota
      Model: Camry
      Trim: TRD
      Engine: 3.5L DOHC 24-Valve VVT-iW V6
      Driveline: Eight-Speed Automatic, Front-Wheel Drive
      Horsepower @ RPM: 301 @ 6,600
      Torque @ RPM: 267 @ 4,700
      Fuel Economy: City/Highway/Combined - 22/31/25
      Curb Weight: 3,572 lbs
      Location of Manufacture: Georgetown, KY
      Base Price: $31,040
      As Tested Price: $32,920 (Includes $995.00 Destination Charge)
      Options:
      Two-Tone Midnight Black Metallic Roof and Rear Spoiler - $500.00
      Special Color - $425.00
       
      Year: 2020
      Make: Lexus
      Model: ES 350
      Trim: F-Sport
      Engine: 3.5 DOHC 24-Valve VVT-iW V6
      Driveline: Eight-Speed Automatic, Front-Wheel Drive
      Horsepower @ RPM: 302 @ 6,600
      Torque @ RPM: 267 @ 4,700
      Fuel Economy: City/Highway/Combined - 22/31/25
      Curb Weight: 3,649 lbs
      Location of Manufacture: Georgetown, KY
      Base Price: $44,635
      As Tested Price: $53,950 (Includes $1,025.00 Destination Charge)
      Options:
      Navigation/Mark Levinson Audio Package - $2,900.00
      Triple Beam LED Headlights - $1,515.00
      Blind Spot Monitor w/Rear Cross Traffic Alert and Intuitive Parking Assist w/Auto Braking - $1,065.00
      Adaptive Variable Suspension - $750.00
      Hands-Free Power Open/Close Trunk - $550.00
      10.2-inch Head-Up Display - $500.00
      Illuminated Door Sill - $400.00
      Power Rear Sunshade - $210.00
      F Sport Heated Leather Steering Wheel with Windshield Wiper Deicer and Fast Response Interior Heater - $180.00
      Door Edge Guard - $145.00
      Wireless Charger - $75.00

      View full article
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