We are getting closer to the next-gen Charger ... AND?

[trinacriabob]

It was supposed to be released in 2020.  Now, the release date is 2021.  This means it should be in the showrooms in late 2020, just a little over a year from now.  It (probably) is going to be built at the Brampton, Ontario, Canada plant.  That's a good thing!  Canadians built my current and last car!

Mum is the word.  Complete silence.  Any ideas as to when we will see what the next-gen Charger is going to look like inside and out?  By the end of this year?  As a Christmas present?  I'm frustrated.

When a Malibu LT with a 1.5 L (90 c.i.) start-stop turbo assisted L4 would sticker for $26K and a Charger SRT with a 292 hp very familiar Pentastar 3.5 L V6, along with loads more room and substance, stickers for around $29.9K, my loyalty to GM wanes and the Charger it is.  I just hope I like the next one because my current car doesn't even have 100,000 miles on it and is just "broken in" ... well, not quite.

[trinacriabob]

There are 2021 articles on this topic, but this is one good enough, being an October 2021 article.

It says that we can expect few changes on the Dodge Charger, Dodge Challenger, AND Chrysler 300 through the 2024 M.Y.  And that they will be built out at the Brampton, ON plant in Canada.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/dodge-charger-challenger-chrysler-300-production/

Most likely, there will be fine tuning of the exterior, interior, and mechanical gizmos.  Hopefully, these would go in the right direction instead of the wrong direction.  Translation:  please keep the electronic bits and touch screens under the cowl of the dashboard.

If Chevy Silverados and Ford F-150s went for long periods of time without marked changes, and still had a loyal customer base, this posture by Stellantis (what? you mean Chrysler, or FCA) shouldn't come as a surprise.  Plus, they wouldn't want to lose the law enforcement market segment.

[trinacriabob]

I keep looking for news and I just found this ...

https://jeepusaprice.com/new-2023-dodge-charger-redesign/

The next Charger shown here is shown as a COUPE.  Wow?!?  As in:  "I don't know what to make of this."

The front is too retro.  I don't like the hemmed in, coved in front fascia.  Hideaway lamps are cool, but will they work?  The Charger started to look good with the front fascia/grille turning the corner into the front fender with the last refresh.

The dual recessed insets on the front door look weak compared to the bigger one right now.

The roofline looks too chunky.

The rear fascia is much like that old Intrepid-like sketch or model of a new Charger.  The light bar is thin and up high, which is okay.  Keep the "camber" in it.  Again, when the Charger last got refreshed, the rear light bar arching upward toward the center made it look better.  As for this sketch, the trunk sill is too high.

They keep pushing the release back.  We are about 3 years out from the next Charger.

So, in the next few years, the Chargers they build ought to be flawless because "practice makes perfect."

But, also, I don't think this is it - as in NOT the next Charger.

 

 

[oldshurst442]

I feel like this rendering is going backwards instead of forwards. 

Had this rendering been original released as is back in 2006 or even in with its first refresh in 2011, Id be on cloud #9.  But seeing this today...Im disappoint.  Its still a great rendering, but its something that we have seen...in 2006.

Its just a 2 door version of the 4 door 2006 model that we actually got with a different front end...including what the mags...

In 2011, the Charger got a 'fastback' look to it that better emulates the classic '68-'70 Charger. It has kept that body style until today. Only front and back refreshes have been made since 2011 (on the exterior). 

 

 

The front end is nice on the rendering. But somehow Id prefer a front end like that on the Camaro rather than the front end with have on the Camaro today...

Imagine a squared off front end with a closed grill and  pop-up lights on THIS Camaro...

To emulate a '68 and '69 Camaro Z28

 

On that Charger rendering, the front fenders and nose are sloped too forwards that makes the grill not flow as good. In my opinion.

The back end DOES look like the Dodge Charger concept of the late '90s.

And I LOVE it both on the concept AND on the rendering!]

It works for me! 

But its just a rendering, nothing concrete of what the next Charger and Challenger will be.

PS:  Im still waiting for that 'Cuda they promised us 2-3 years ago.  They DID if fact trademark the name again... 

Edited August 19, 2021 by oldshurst442

[trinacriabob]

I just found this.  I don't know if it's legit.  It shows an upline Dodge Charger for 2022, with changes that probably didn't cost the automaker that much.  Mostly, I like them.

Plus:

Hidden door handles ... good ... but hidden where?  I wouldn't mind the gullwing look flush with the pillar

The big character line moves forward, into the front fender ... that's fine

There is a sculpted flank on the rear fender ... that would depend on what the car looks like from the rear, both straight-on and in 3/4 view

Minus:

The BIG woven air dam and scoops under the front bumper ... it looks like they've compared notes with Toyota Camry designers*

They've scaled back the expanse of the narrow front headlights ... I liked them more when they reached further toward the center

- - - - -

* now, this just might be the "apples to apples" for their flashy V8 models ... and not be on the base models - I would hope not.

[balthazar]

Being it's the same base photograph, seems safe to say it's an artist's guess.
A bit over-the-top for me, and I agree on the front end.

[Robert Hall]

^that's just someones photoshop daydreaming.  I suspect the Charger will be unchanged for some time until a replacement is announced.   No changes for 2022 that I've read. 

[David]

3 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

^that's just someones photoshop daydreaming.  I suspect the Charger will be unchanged for some time until a replacement is announced.   No changes for 2022 that I've read. 

Totally agree, I doubt we will see any real big change other than minor tweaks as they let the ICE version just run out as all the R&D are focused on an electric Charger and Challenger to rip up the planet.

I wonder if any of the concepts they had done in the past will show up in future or it it will be a clean sheet design.

Clearly they have some functional awd concepts that we will see soon.

Makes me think they have gone old school on the design.

[balthazar]

Hopefully Stellantis doesn't F' up a next gen- Dodge buyers are traditionalists, it's what the brand centered on.
Too far a leap sideways and there goes the customer base.

[oldshurst442]

Dodge has been lucky enough that from Fiat's ownership they have been left alone to manage their (limited) portfolio as how they see fit.  Marchionne was at least smart enough to acknowledge that  Dodge's engineers, marketing people and designers knew what American people wanted from this brand and let them free to allow Dodge to become what it is today in 2021.  

Dodge folk grew the Hemi into a 2nd iteration Superbee, Scat Pack, Hellcat, Demon, Red Eye with 392s and supercharged 6.2s.  The SRT brand also grew with Fiat.  

Fiat allowed Dodge to do this.  Fiat did not stifle Dodge the way Daimler did. 

I think Stellantis will allow this way to continue on.  SRT engineers have been given the task to introduce and lead Dodge into the EV era and are welcomed to evolve Dodge and the SRT brand into EV 'muscle cars'. Not only that, SRT engineers  have a bigger role to play within Stellantis itself!

 

https://www.autoweek.com/news/sports-cars/a36135002/heres-whats-really-going-on-at-srt/

 

https://www.motortrend.com/news/stellantis-srt-future/

 

Although the title is misleading...it says that Stellantis disbands the SRT team.  Its far from disbanding it.

Quote

Yes, technically the Street and Racing Technology division no longer exists as a small dedicated engineering team, but the engineers have all been retained and folded into the Stellantis global engineering division, which will continue to make SRT and performance-branded cars in the future. They are still doing the same work, it is an organizational restructuring only.

 

The first link, Kuniskis expalins that because battery packs and KW/H and the various platforms that Stellantis will be giving Dodge, the SRT team, working with the other Stellantis engieering teams will have to work closely together with the base cars to accomplish SRT things with the SRT cars for Dodge so its logical that the SRT engineers will work side to side with the other engineers to ensure that the SRT cars will be able to be engineered properly as SRT cars.   

If what Kuniskis says is true, Stellantis shows that they have deep respect for SRT engineers and Dodge in general.

If its false, then SRT engineers are just absorbed into Stellantis for the greater good of the multi-branded corporation and Dodge will lose its carefully crafted identity they had built the last 12-13-14 years. 

 

 

[trinacriabob]

5 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

^that's just someones photoshop daydreaming.  I suspect the Charger will be unchanged for some time until a replacement is announced.   No changes for 2022 that I've read. 

I think that their taking it slow is better.  It has been riding on essentially the same platform since 2005.

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

Hopefully Stellantis doesn't F' up a next gen- Dodge buyers are traditionalists, it's what the brand centered on.
Too far a leap sideways and there goes the customer base.

So true.  Over the years, each of the updates on this car have involved fine tuning and making it more modern looking and more relevant, and I have liked how it has morphed.  I think they will be careful ... and hope they tuck any enlarged infotainment center under the cowl or embed it in the dash. 

But, then, come to think of it, the name Stellantis is a "F" up.

[balthazar]

Sounds like a (insert medical condition here) medication.

[Robert Hall]

"Taking Stellantis is not without side effects.  Depending on the specific dosage, you may have increased interest in off roading, drag racing, or street racing.  Please see your doctor if you have experience any of these side effects while taking Stellantis.."

[David]

22 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Dodge has been lucky enough that from Fiat's ownership they have been left alone to manage their (limited) portfolio as how they see fit.  Marchionne was at least smart enough to acknowledge that  Dodge's engineers, marketing people and designers knew what American people wanted from this brand and let them free to allow Dodge to become what it is today in 2021.  

Dodge folk grew the Hemi into a 2nd iteration Superbee, Scat Pack, Hellcat, Demon, Red Eye with 392s and supercharged 6.2s.  The SRT brand also grew with Fiat.  

Fiat allowed Dodge to do this.  Fiat did not stifle Dodge the way Daimler did. 

I think Stellantis will allow this way to continue on.  SRT engineers have been given the task to introduce and lead Dodge into the EV era and are welcomed to evolve Dodge and the SRT brand into EV 'muscle cars'. Not only that, SRT engineers  have a bigger role to play within Stellantis itself!

 

https://www.autoweek.com/news/sports-cars/a36135002/heres-whats-really-going-on-at-srt/

 

https://www.motortrend.com/news/stellantis-srt-future/

 

Although the title is misleading...it says that Stellantis disbands the SRT team.  Its far from disbanding it.

 

The first link, Kuniskis expalins that because battery packs and KW/H and the various platforms that Stellantis will be giving Dodge, the SRT team, working with the other Stellantis engieering teams will have to work closely together with the base cars to accomplish SRT things with the SRT cars for Dodge so its logical that the SRT engineers will work side to side with the other engineers to ensure that the SRT cars will be able to be engineered properly as SRT cars.   

If what Kuniskis says is true, Stellantis shows that they have deep respect for SRT engineers and Dodge in general.

If its false, then SRT engineers are just absorbed into Stellantis for the greater good of the multi-branded corporation and Dodge will lose its carefully crafted identity they had built the last 12-13-14 years. 

I honestly think Stellantis is embracing Dodge's history of SRT and Muscle and realizes the profit generating machine it is. As such,  I honestly do not see them doing anything to hurt the current ICE product line while they focus on bringing out proper electric Muscle Cars.

 

[balthazar]

You don’t think discontinuing IC is going to hurt IC fans??

[David]

51 minutes ago, balthazar said:

You don’t think discontinuing IC is going to hurt IC fans??

No I do not, people will change when they see the ongoing power of electric muscle cars and while there will be those that rebel, it will be a minority as most will embrace the change coming once they can sit in, power on and roast the tires moving away at warp speed.

[balthazar]

SOME people will change. 

OTHERS will prefer what they prefer (That's not 'rebeling'). 

There's a lot more to vehicles for some people than "roasting the tires" (which both do handily).

[Robert Hall]

I love the Challenger and Charger as they are.  Wouldn’t mind having one, with a V8 of course.  

[Robert Hall]

@trinacriabobSounds like only a couple more years of the Charger and Challenger then it's game over.  Both gone by 2024 and replaced by a new EV.   Sad to read.

https://jalopnik.com/dodge-sets-2024-death-date-for-charger-and-challenger-t-1848103833

[balthazar]

^ >>"I’m juggling knives because I’ve gotta keep two different huge factions happy because at some point those two factions will converge."<<

^ By "two"... I wonder what he's referring to past the consumer demographic that loves/buys all those V8 muscle cars Dodge builds. Certainly not electric car fans, because there's nothing remotely like a "huge faction" in play there.

[oldshurst442]

 

 

SWEEEEEEEEEET  E-MOOOOOOOH-SHAWN!  

SWEEEEEEEEEET  E-MOOOOOOOH-SHAWN! 

 

 

From this

To this

 

Im ready for it!   

Oh sure, I will surely miss that supercharged V8 snarl and growl, but it is time to move on from it.  

Will "e-muscle" be able to replace real muscle?

There is a 'yes' answer to that question and a 'no' answer to that question.

A big fat no when it comes to sound and rumble and feel.

A big fat yes as it will scoot and get you where you wanna go just as fast and cool as the muscle it will be replacin'. 

It will look like a Dodge muscle car. It wont sound like one.

But the world is unrecognizable  since when the original Mopar Hemis, Ford Flatheads, Olds Rockets, Buick Nailheads, Poncho and Chevy rat motors ruled the earth.  

The world had changed dramatically when the Challenger and Camaro came back from the dead 15 years ago and the world has taken another huge turn to change even further the last 5 to change it even more from the last 15. 

We could sulk and continue to sing sad tunes and ask ourselves Where have all the good times gone

 

or embrace the change and roll with it...

Id rather roll with it...

 

Yeah...it aint KISS, its Green Day, its 2021 with COVID in the air, but its still a damn good cover of a damn good song. Might as well enjoy that Rock is still played and enjoyed by many folk.

Same with Dodge E-Muscle.  

Dodge Muscle Cars WILL live on. With electric powertrains...  Hopefully Dodge makes their electric offerings with the same cool factor that they did their V8 muscle car offerings from the '60s and '70s. 

Remember, Dodge muscle did go away in the mid '70s.  It did come back with the Viper. It wasnt a V8 and it was only one model.  Remember, Dodge in the 1990s had given us a Neon. It was fun and fast in SRT4 trim...  But we did laugh at it.  

Oh how we have forgotten???!!!  The SRT4 Neon...

Like I said, the world had changed big time from the 60s to the 90s and reversed itself back into a 600s state of mind in the 2010s.  But the 2020s are hear and the world has changed again.  But this time around, the change is for something new.  And it looks promising. 

 

 

[balthazar]

It's not about the 'world changing' here, tho. These types of vehicles don't cater to futurism.

They're not "Challenger' and 'Charger' and 'Hemi' and '392', etc, etc, because people wanted to move forward from a Neon SRT4.

They wanted to go back.  

[trinacriabob]

20 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

@trinacriabobSounds like only a couple more years of the Charger and Challenger then it's game over.  Both gone by 2024 and replaced by a new EV.   Sad to read.

https://jalopnik.com/dodge-sets-2024-death-date-for-charger-and-challenger-t-1848103833

Really heartbroken over this decision.  More so for the Charger than the Challenger.  (This would also mean the Chrysler 300 will go away.)  So many people have been mulling over what the next ones will be like.  I guess this decision spares FCA, or whatever it's now called, from expending engineering and design effort on a new Charger and Challenger, hoping they get it right, and curry favor with these models' prospective buyers.

[oldshurst442]

21 hours ago, balthazar said:

It's not about the 'world changing' here, tho.

The global thinking about the internal combustion engine is not changing? 

 

21 hours ago, balthazar said:

These types of vehicles don't cater to futurism.

What?  Performance vehicles?

Or are we specifically talking about retro styled pony cars from Chevy, Ford and Dodge and specifically the Charger and Challenger?

Because sure, the Charger and Challenger VISUALLY does not cater to futurism.  But what powers these vehicles must cater to the future because if it doesnt, the nameplates will just disappear...again. 

We could talk about the past all we want, but when Chryco failed to address the fuel crisis and the insurance issues of the 1970s concerning these very vehicles, these very nameplates just died.  The Charger was renamed into something else as to not elude to the idea of muscle and the Challenger just went away.  The Challenger did come back as a Mitsubishi only to die off again shortly after only for Dodge to introduce a new  sporty coupe with Mitsu's collaboration. A twin turbo AWD 6 cylinder sports car.  And it did fairly well in the decade that it was introduced.   Sure, it took Ford to go retro back into time with its Mustang that sparked the Challenger and Charger comeback along with a resurrected Camaro... 

But are we sure that 'go back into time' movement was a muscle car one?  

There was a Mustang and a GT40. True.    But there was also a failed GTO resurrection.

There was a retro PT Cruiser and a retro Chevy HHR that were sales  hits.  But the retro Chevy SSR V8 was a market failure.  So was a V8 Thunderbird that was a failure.

The New Beetle and the Mini were sales hits.  None of which had V8s in them... Or RWD for that matter. 

The insane push with supercharged V8s making 700 and 800 plus horsepower has made the Charger and Challenger into legends. But if Dodge does not navigate the future of gasoline as a fuel for propulsion and especially the price of it heading into the future, and Dodge will only be looking at the past glory of the V8, Im afraid that the Challenger and Charger nameplates will be disappearing again. 

Oh sure, plenty of folk are buying these cars now, but will they WHEN gasoline prices are no longer cheaper in price than drinking water? 

So...  A suggestion of keeping the Challenger and Charger  as internal combustion vehicles is a must. But keeping them as V8s wont be feasible for folks that wont be able to afford the price of V8 consumption of gasoline.  Therefore, in keeping with tradition and keeping these cars as gasoline powered cars, the suggestion would be to make these into turbo 2.0 4 cylinder cars? 

Unless the argument is that gasoline prices will not increase.

But, we do know that if it aint the gas prices that will do in the V8, the pollution related regulations will.   And not only will those regulations kill the V8, but the internal combustion engine itself.  

Yes, there is a pushback against the death of the V8 and the internal combustion engine and consequentially the nameplates that these V8s inhabit...

The King is dead!   Long live the King! 

 

[oldshurst442]

On 11/22/2021 at 7:28 PM, balthazar said:

^ >>"I’m juggling knives because I’ve gotta keep two different huge factions happy because at some point those two factions will converge."<<

^ By "two"... I wonder what he's referring to past the consumer demographic that loves/buys all those V8 muscle cars Dodge builds. Certainly not electric car fans, because there's nothing remotely like a "huge faction" in play there.

 

I was thinking about this post.   And although I said one thing about the future of the Challenger and Charger if these cars stayed as V8s not surviving.  I must agree to say that as of now, the faction for E Muscle form Dodge in the form of BE Charger and Challenger aint very big and therefore the future of electric Chargers and Chargers not surviving is also a possibility. 

But, if we do go by the past, Charger and Challenger have died staying the course...   But then again, Challenger didnt last long when it tried to re-invent itself as a Mitsubishi badge job. 

But then again, the Challenger that WAS given to us as a badge job wasnt much of a Dodge or a Challenger...

The Dodge muscle car was a specially designed and marketed vehicle in the 1960s and early 1970s.  

SRT has proven to be a highly specialized performance juggernaut since the Viper's introduction  and they are tasked to re-invent the Dodge muscle car.   

Ford's performance engineering successfully  engineered and marketed a turbo 6 cylinder GT named race car and an electric SUV named Mustang.

Chevrolet's Corvette team has successfully re-invented the Corvette into a mid-engined car and has made people lust over a Ferrari styled powerplant and not only that the mere thought of an electric Corvette and people have been dreaming about what those performance specs will be...

I think SRT engineers and Dodge's marketing team have got this since SRT cars are no slouches compared to their cross town rivals in Michigan and Dodge's marketing team SURPASSES them by several car lengths...

Yeah...I think E Muscle will be popular.  I aint worried about the future of BE Challengers and Chargers.

Dont get me wrong, Im already lamenting the death of the supercharged Hemi.   But it is what it is.   

 

 

[David]

E- Muscle is the future and plenty of people will take it when it comes. I see no reason for these name plates to die in the future unless Dodge decides to NOT build E-Muscle and stick with V8s that most people will not be able to afford.

AWD Electric Burn outs

[trinacriabob]

The 2022 Dodge Charger site is up.  The changes are absolutely minimal.  That's a "bad" sign.

Pricing is up a little.  I think there was a price bump in 2021.  Depending on which sticker you see on a 2021 car in stock, it might have a base price of $ 29.9 K or $ 31 K, before destination charges.  (I'm thinking ... it's a helluva lot more car than a Malibu, for not even $ 5 K more.)

I noticed a few other things:

1.  They are still offering 13 colors.  Last year, very few were extra cost options.  Now, most of them are extra cost.  However, the upcharge is a paltry $ 95.  Carried over are an interesting blue called "Frostbite" and a weird burgundy called "Hellraisin," among others. 

When you pull up foreign cars you want to "build," they pick the "free" color for you.  And it won't be white, silver, or black.  It might be orange, red, or a nasty blue.  To get a normal color, the upcharge can be 500 Euro(s) or so.

2.  I was looking at a sticker of a Charger in stock.  And I liked what I saw.  We know the car is built out at the Brampton (ON) Canada plant.  Their very proven Pentastar V6 is sourced in the U.S.  But their Torque Flite 8 speed automatic transmission is built in Germany! 

When your powertrain is made of U.S.-German products, that's a good thing, I suppose.