oldshurst442

Maybe he is an Aerosmith groupie instead?

Drew there are adults that should not have this much power. Anyone seen the Prince in Beverly Hills in the Ferrari this week? Also the videos we have seen on YouTube of the crashing Z06 are proof that many people are over their limits. Ive admitted to this before at cheersandgears... Ive wrapped a 1989 2.8 liter V6 Pontiac Firebird and all of its 140 HP or so around a traffic light pole... Thankfully...I dont drive like an adolescent idiot anymore.

^^^ That is too cute....

bliss

^^^

That deserves an up vote... Excuse me while I hide my face in shame... yes...cute pic...I might as well post something humorous as to not make this into more of a drab thread than it already is...

I stopped down voting a looooooong time ago... You see Wings...this is a case of mistaken identity... NOW YOU SEE WHY I HATE THE DOWN VOTES WITHOUT EXPLANATIONS!!! PS: I have admitted...once again...that I have down voted you in the past as retaliation with no mercy....but that was a looooooong time ago... Hypocrite...I am not... Open book...I am... I am quite vocal about this down voting thing... EVERYBODY knows where I stand on the topic... and yet again...I will admit to me down voting YOU feverishly...but THAT was a loooooong time ago...and Drew UPVOTED my down votes to you...as per YOUR admittance... To have Lord Tourettes laugh at us!!! Arent you ashamed? That publicly...people are actually laughing at us???!!!

To be honest...you do. YOU keep on down voting...and YOU were the one to whine to Drew about it in the first place... I also care about it...but NOT on a personal level...its more of a politeness issue that I have. Generally speaking and NOT aimed at you Wings...this next part of my speech. Ahem....ladies and gentlemen: If you are gonna down vote somebody....at least let it be known to the person you gleefully down vote as to why you are doing such a thing...its a discussion forum...have the courtesy to...discuss... It became a pet peeve of mine this down voting thing when Drew pointed out that there are some that abuse it...I was one to abuse it...but ONLY in retaliation...but most of that time I also explained why I did what I did... Now I just get mad when I see a down vote on somebody's post...and no explanation as to why that down vote came to be... And no...it aint about MY down votes...I dont have that many to begin with... No, sorry olds, you are wrong. I inquired about voting when I first got here, did not understand how it worked, learned, and have not said a word about it since. I certainly don't follow up a post with a complaint about a vote, like some here do. And I do mention the downvotes, like I dust did to surreal and earlier to bong. But make no mistake, if I see whining and trolling, it will get downvoted. Plain and simple That is cool...just let it be known as to why you are down voting... Like I said...its about courtesy...and THAT way...I too can be a judge on whether that person YOU down voted was a troll or...YOU are the troll... Its easy to paint somebody a troll with a blanket statement...AND JUST add a down vote to THAT post.... But with an explanation as to why YOU think THAT person was/is a troll with trollish remarks with VALID explanations...Ill have a better understanding of the issue at hand...and maybe side with YOU...from time to time... Without that explanation though.... But about that explanation....if its not a very good thought process...it might backfire on you...and THAT is why I HATE the down voting system WITHOUT explanations...its EASY to hide from anonymity...and its frustrating to see a more or less good thoughtful post get down voted... And you see Wings...sometimes I get pissed when I see YOUR posts get downvoted...because sometimes..YOU MAKE GOOD POINTS TOO... Im all about being fair...

To be honest...you do. YOU keep on down voting...and YOU were the one to whine to Drew about it in the first place... I also care about it...but NOT on a personal level...its more of a politeness issue that I have. Generally speaking and NOT aimed at you Wings...this next part of my speech. Ahem....ladies and gentlemen: If you are gonna down vote somebody....at least let it be known to the person you gleefully down vote as to why you are doing such a thing...its a discussion forum...have the courtesy to...discuss... It became a pet peeve of mine this down voting thing when Drew pointed out that there are some that abuse it...I was one to abuse it...but ONLY in retaliation...but most of that time I also explained why I did what I did... Now I just get mad when I see a down vote on somebody's post...and no explanation as to why that down vote came to be... And no...it aint about MY down votes...I dont have that many to begin with...

Its a party. A week long party. Its not only a race. Its the start of the summer season for us. And when the Habs make it far into the play offs...oh what a wonderful time it is on and in the streets of Montreal.

Im quoting Wings....but this is a continuation of the discussion above this latest post that Wings made...so yeah... I forgot to mention... It helps that Montreal hosts the Formula 1 race year after year after year... It has ALWAYS been popular with the world visiting Montreal...and the local yokels...for the race...and it was always a stepping stone...albeit F1 was ALWAYS the more popular racing circuit....for Indy Car and the Ferrari Challenge that we used to get and the Nascar Sprint Series...now that these last races are no longer and the only one still standing IS the F1...well...like I said...it was ALWAYS a BIG Deal....but now...its an even BIGGER deal. The week before F1...Down Town Montreal would swell up with the exotic car crowd and we would hoon over Ferraris and Lambos...and now and again...classic American Muscle would sneak some attention...only to have one street closed one day for exotics and another for classic American Iron. Then soon enough...the tunerz would try to steal some attention...and what we have the last 5 years or so...is the whole week, 2 streets of Down Town Montreal would be closed off the ENTIRE week for EVERYBODY to display their rides...and that includes ALL types of rides...even motorcycles...speed bikes and Harleys/Choppers...exotics, Italian roadsters, tunerz, American Muscle and Hot Rods, motorcycles... Plus...in the winter time...Quebecois love to snow mobile...THAT also helps the car crazy world...as we tend to enjoy all kinds of motor madness...

Yes. What I SHOULD have said...maybe YOU could help Karmanos. I also heard rumors of he wanted to move the team? Again?

Orange Julep is alive and well...and its still going on strong... But there are other meets as well all across the Montreal Urban area. Muscle cars have not faded away, but its more or less the classics that get the attention...not as if the new Mustangs/Camaros/Challengers dotn get any love...its the tuner cars that have really taken off...since the early 1990s and only getting stronger...and only because there are MORE tunerz available for purchase than are just 3 pony cars...and lets us NOT forget...it was only 1 pony car for a good 6-8 years...in the mid 2000s...

Working yourself up to Jay Leno levels....I think that is awesome!!! It's a bad thing, a very bad thing. That is if you don't have Jay Leno money (like me). I think I shall succumb to crippling dept by the seventh vehicle. That means that you might have to land yourself a late night TV show... A nice Greek boy like yourself could manage that... George Strombolopoulos...I could also say Tina Fey... He did it on Canadian TV... and moved on up to being a host of Hockey Night in Canada And if that fails...become a GM of a Major League Sports Team...like Alex Anthopoulos of the Toronto Blue Jays...Greek boy from Montreal I might add... Peter Karmanos...might be able to help you...

Watching my teens grow up, observing their lack of interest in cars, and listening to them make fun of guys who have to have performance cars....I have to agree here. It's a crazy new world. Many kids today are not even in a hurray to get their license. That one blows me away. All the parents say similar too. And being that we are from the motor city, and that many of their parents work in the auto industry, does not seem to influence them. If anything, they are opposed to what their parents are drawn to. Well...Quebec teens actually are in love with the automobile...many of them customize their rides with performance parts....maybe not as crazy as SEMA show levels of customization...but its there... Vehicles of choice? Small 4 cylinder rides from Mazda 3 Speed, VW Golf GTi, Subaru BRZ and WRX, Acura Integras (yeah...there are still some out there, Honda Civic Si (yeah, the older 1990s models, Ford is fast becoming popular and no...not the Mustang. BMW E46s are popular with this crowd too...but the kids that own these usually do more visual stuff rather than performance oriented stuff... So...take what I have said however you like to take it...but...even in Quebec...where gasoline prices are sky high...hence the love for 4 cylinder cars being "souped up"...even as far North and exotic as...Quebec...there are youth that continue the car crazy trend...not all are into their phones...they are...with their phones too...and their phones help with the diagnostics of their performance with their little 4 banger ricers....so...

Working yourself up to Jay Leno levels....I think that is awesome!!!

As far as brand snobs go...sure, the BMW M2 and the BMW M4 and their less potent "civilian" versions will remain the soupe du jour cars with this crowd. What I am talking about is those guys and gals that seem to enjoy performance, will realize that the Camaro is actually the real deal... I talk to many teenagers, and the Challenger Hellcat is known to them...they hoon over that car as much as they do the JDM video game cars... They falsely assume it does not handle, they think it handles like a muscle car of yore...however, they understand that modern day American Muscle Cars do handle the twisties...and the Zeta Camaro is the reason for that... Some still hoon over the BMW "M" cars too...but not for performance reasons...for image... As far as German cars go...these kids hoon over a VW GTi...for performance reasons... These same teenagers...also like a BRZ...they recognize its handling...but they too...wished it had the engine from the WRX STi under the hood... Cadillac is not even in their radar... Going forward....I think the Alpha Camaro will start a new following...especially with the turbo 4 cylinder crowd... That 4 cylinder is best of both world's to get the hooning started... The Camaro has the Muscle Car legend name. It has the V8 to shame other cars...that kids will dream about...and... Its probably the 4 cylinder that will get the sales and the aftermarket improvements...that kids will aspire to...to get close to and beat those V8 performance numbers... 1. because they are used to and actually are comfortable with 4 cylinders. 2. because they grew up hatin' on V8 engines anyway...so it will be their pleasure to improve the stock turbo 4 cylinder in the Camaro...just to beat up on a V8... 3. it already comes with a Turbo from the factory... 4. its the Camaro they will most probably afford...either new or used...

When GM finally green lit the Chevy version to be sold to the public, GM itself handicapped the vehicle and limited its sales by only offering a V8. The Caprice is only for government fleets, etc... The Pontiac G8 never took off because of circumstance. Recession and bankruptcy and consequent killing off of Pontiac. Had GM offered multiple engine offerings, like the G8, and more so like the Zeta Camaro, (the Camaro's LFX 3.6 or even the slightly less powerful version in the Holden Commodore) then the SS would have sold more... I understand the whole economics part of the equation...built in Australia and shipped to America...not even in Canada...therefore too many options for the Chevy SS might have been a money losing proposition...so I get that... What I dont understand is why GM didnt commit to building the Chevy SS in Canada along side the Camaro? What I dont understand is why GM was afraid to commit? . Its understood that the G8 failed because of bad timing....or was it other reasons that GM knows and wont tell us? But yeah...we were lucky to have experienced these cars. I remember back in the day when we had the Cadillac Catera here in North America with that dog of an engine and I was reading about Middle Eastern Lumina SS cars, i was thinking to myself...WTF? I thought North America was home to the Muscle Car...what gives? And finally when Bob Lutz gave us...well Americans...the Monaro as the Pontiac GTO....I was super elated...because THIS is FINALLY a step FORWARD in getting back our muscle cars...the F-Body pony cars died...and the closest to a muscle car we had was those German cars from BMW with the "M" badge and AMG trimmed Mercedes Benzes... And then...the G8...WOW!!! And the Zeta platform....so I heard because I havent driven a Zeta car....Camaro/G8/SS or otherwise...is a solid performing platform. GM and Holden REALLY dialed it in... Its a shame that the SS and the Holden versions are going away. I feel the same way I felt when the F-Body was killed off. Yes I know...I said that I did not care for the SS or the G8 all that much...it still doesnt change the fact that I KNOW the SS and the G8 and obviously the Holden models were fantastically engineered muscle cars...and as of now...NOTHING is said to replace them...and THAT is extremely sad...

Is some of it the styling of the SS? I'll admit that I wasn't a fan of the styling. I think some small changes could make a big difference. It could be...it does not help that the styling of the Chevy SS is a tad on the conservative side. But then again...I wasnt all that smitten with the Pontiac G8 either...even in GXP trim...although the silhouette is sexy... It does not help either that the exterior colours GM offers on the Chevy SS are also on the conservative side...although that blue colour on the intro to the article is stunning...makes the car look more like a fun car to drive. I absolutely love the interior of the Chevy SS...miles apart from the Pontiac G8...and quite classy...for a Chevy...that interior is befitting for an Oldsmobile... I dont know...

Looks nice...with the nip and tuck...actually...looks a lot better...although subtle are the touches...makes a difference... However...there is still something about it that I cant put my finger on that I am not too excited about...and it has ALL the ingredients that I WANT from my muscle car daily driver...including the LS3...415HP/415 ft.lbs torque is plenty of ooomph that I require in a daily driver...no need for more... But somehow...I aint interested...maybe its because Im am soooooo excited by the Alpha Camaro...yet the Camaro...is a small 2 door sport coupe...not really my style...its a small pony car...mid-sized muscle is how I roll... I dont know...Im confused... I SHOULD BE LOVING THIS CAR ....but Im not.

I have to heartily disagree here. The 2002 Camaro had no bragging rights besides the straight line. Japanese cars for the same money handled better, felt better, braked better, and didn't have a penalty box interior. Asking if the new interior is worth $7000 more, I'd be inclined to say yes, absolutely, because I'm reminded how much I can't go back to an old GM interior every time I ride in my fiance's Cobalt, but that's a misleading question because it ignores everything else that's state of the art about the new car. Or the fact that the $30k V6 will nearly run LS1 numbers. Former Camaro engineers openly admitted that GM gave them just enough money to fully develop the drivetrain and virtually nothing else. This Camaro is the first one in decades with zero development compromises. The Alpha chasses, now THAT alone is worth $7000 over the old LRA sled. The rest of the 2016 Camaro package is icing on the cake. I will back you up on the 4 gen. I was sitting with Scott Settlmire the head of the F body program when he told us that the car got all the money for engine and suspension but not much else for the details and quality inside. He said "This is why your power window fail". I think once people get to really see the new car here and drive them they will find the first most completed Camaro every built. Like the C7 while not perfect it is the best Corvette ever made and lacks many of the things it used to fall short on every year. As for not perfect it is close but when the price is considered nothing else is close for what you get. In regards to the sentence that you made that I underlined in bold: And Im assuming...why BMW M3 coupes also got so popular in the mid 1990s...because...although a loaded up Trans Am WS6 was still less expensive than a BMW M3...its was still a stone's throw away from it...and many figured that the M3 is a much more complete car...with not only better handling...but a much much nicer interior. A more complete car... And like El K and yourself have pointed out...never mind the Cadillac ATS...the Camaro is the sporty 2 door coupe that crosses all of its Tees and dots all of its eyes in being the complete package. Its the Camaro and its higher end trims that will probably put the BMW M4 on its heels.

The more GM/Chevy reveals about this Alpha platform Camaro and its consequent versions, the more I am back in being a Camaro guy...and the more I forget about my love affair with the Camaro's former corporate brother, the Pontiac Firebird/Formula/Trans am....(although I do dream about how would Pontiac handle this platform...) The Challenger and the Hellcat trim is still my top dog muscle car...as far as pony cars go and smallish sporty 2 door coupes go which include BMW M4s and Cadillac ATS V Coupes and the like...the Camaro is fast becoming my choice... Disclaimer: Because the Challenger was ALWAYS a 'tweener in its history...I wisely determine its position in this niche to fit my style. Ill call it a pony car when I see fit to fit my biased agenda and Ill call it a mid-sized muscle car other times....such as in this case...Ill ALWAYS have a place in my heart for the Challenger...so...in THIS case...a Challenger fits in the muscle car arena so I could wax poetic about the Camaro as a pony car...other times...the Challenger gets to be a pony car...so I could wax poetic about its merits... This ZL-1 I could/would imagine is gonna be a beast worth reckoning with. This Camaro ZL-1 Im assuming, will put many established name brands on their heels begging for mercy.

Debbie Downer. Negative Nancy. Pessimistic Patty. Bitchy Betty. Party Crasher. Kill Joy. Although I agree with what you wrote....

Yup. Yup. and more Yup. Especially the part where one car needs the other to keep going well into the 21st century. Like the Coyote and RoadRunner. Like Smokey and the Bandit. Like Superman and Lex Luther. Like Batman and The Joker. Like the Boston Bruins and the Montreal Canadiens. Sure....other cars come to join in on the fun...but its the original rivalry that keeps the fire alive...and if that fire dies out... And it did...in 2002...I dont know about you folk...I dont want to go back to 2002... The Camaro amd Mustang are even pushing cars ABOVE their class to perform better...th BMW CEO fainted because of it... The thought of a Mustang GT350, Camaro SS and an upcoming Z/28 beating up on his M4 scared him...the reality of an Alfa Romeo Guilia based Challenger/'Cuda down right took his breath away...

NOW....I wanna know who is the other chicken shyte who down voted that other post... Now...I get it...you dont wanna this out in the air like that...but as long as you mofos HIDE under a down voting system...I WILL ALWAYS CALL YOU OUT!!! Be a EFFIN MAN and REVEAL yourself and STATE why YOU down voted!!! So I could actually EXPLAIN myself to you and others... And YOU could do the same to me!!! WTF is this???!!! Down voting because I EXPRESSED MY OPINIONS ON SOMETHING THAT BOTHERS ME!!! AT LEAST I MADE IT PUBLIC ON TO WHY IT BOTHERS ME!!! WHY DONT YOU DO THE SAME???!!! GROW UP....ALL OF YOU!!! DOWN VOTE BUT REVEAL YOURSELVES AND EXPLAIN AS TO WHY!!! CHICKEN SHYTES!!!