oldshurst442

No. Wheelbase is a factor too. Although I should have mentioned track as well... Breaking hard, the vehicle yaws forward. Combine that with a turn, and a shorter wheelbase and the handling is destabilized. Combine that with a higher center of gravity and a roll over may ensue. Both play a part. . A car has 2 critical movements in the 3rd dimension that influence handling characteristics. 1. side to side movement. Track and height affect this. 2. Front and back movement. Wheelbase and weight distribution affect this motion. https://unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/doc/2010/wp29grrf/AMEVSC-03-03e.pdf

Martin Brodeur

https://mathspig.wordpress.com/tag/centre-of-gravity/ So the Lamobgini Diablo is very hard to roll (build a higher ramp) and it therefore beats the SUV for stability every time. Definition of Center of Gravity...

Well...obviously...nothing rolls over by itself. Other than maybe a...ball? Spirited driving with stability control will allow higher speeds of spirited driving with CUVs. Yes...its true. But physics comes into play one way or other. *SIGH* CUVs have a higher center of gravity because they are a TALLER vehicle. The wheelbase is not longer than an equivalent sedan so the tipping point of that equivalent CUV is less forgiving... Its physics.... No matter how you guys wanna dissect it, its physics....

Just a few years ago is the key phrase. And I also mentioned electronic technological wizardry. The thing is, sedans ALSO benefit from this stability control wizardry. The thing is, yes, the speed limits are higher with stability control, and yes, there are some stability controls that work the brakes, suspension travels and corrective steering to avoid and/or mitigate roll overs. Physics however, take over. All the GIFs I CAREFULLY chose and the equivalent sedan accident would NOT make the sedan flip over. Such as this one A sedan getting T boned, just makes the sedan fly into the other car, or possibly the curb further down. But the sedan will not flip like that. A FASTER T Bone and the sedan MAY flip. But this T Bone was not really at blazing speeds either... I dunno what shytty shenanigans this idiot was doing with his Mercedes CUV prior to the roll over...but his sporty CUV is also a Mercedes...and it rolled over. But a sedan would REALLY have to go blazingly fast to flip over at that round-about taking a sharp turn...but blangingly fast also means the sedan will simply NOT turn, not roll over but just go THROUGH the round-about... The CUV will probably...roll over MULTIPLE times. This sporty CUV, from Mercedes, I will mention Mercedes MULTIPLE times, because its a high end CUV FROM Mercedes with presumably high end stability controls to AVOID roll overs at seemingly low speeds such as in THIS case...but nope...it rolled over.

@Drew Dowdell answered this the way I wanted to.

Blue Angels

A Camaro nose is technically a Chevy nose... Yes, it would be a real Chevy nose a Camaro nose would be. The Chevy SS nose would technically NOT be a real Chevy nose. It would be a Holden nose. And...lets be honest, although pretty, the Holden nose, or Chevy SS, lets call it what it really is. Un-inspiring. The Camaro nose is aggressive. A new generation Impala SS type car kinda needs that aggressive identity. Maybe not an exact Camaro nose like that fake render. But definitely NOT a boring, unexciting, drab FWD appliance look-a-like either... The Holden nose does a FANTASTIC job in mimicking FWD Chevrolet appliance vehicles... The Chevy SS/Holden Commodores are pretty though. But then again, pretty does NOT sell muscle. That would be strike two... Butch sells muscle. The Camaro's front end is plenty butch. And its a nice butch face. Its just that the Camaro lacks in other areas...

You realize that your gif is just Hollywood magic accident. Its not a real roll over. It is staged to go boom and let the rear tire go up in the air and do a roll over like a master and his dog playing tricks like: Hey Rex, play dead. Hey Rex, roll over... Yes, cars DO roll over. My problem I have with you is that YOU are arguing against physics. You simply canNOT argue with physics. Im glad that you have rethought your driving because you do have SUVs. The thing is with YOUR SUVs: 1. The Escalade is wide and has a long wheelbase. The full-sized SUVs are less prone to roll overs. They aint low to the ground cars, so they could roll over more easily than a car, but these fullsizers are pretty solid if the roads are pretty smooth. A slight imperfection though and they will roll over. A car has a higher tolerance... 2. Your Trailblazer is a performance SUV. It is hunkered down with stiffer suspension. Like the Escalade, though, it will have a more forgiving roll over risk. But dont kid yourself, the GMT 360 is not a platform where GM took roll overs seriously. The GMT 360 is eons better than the S10 Blazer of the previous gen, but that is not saying much as thee S10 Blazers was horrid. Horrid horrid horrid for roll overs. Please, do NOT gloss over the real danger of CUV and SUVs rolling over. It IS a REAL hazard. Just because YOU own 2 SUVs and YOU want to feel good about your love for SUVs, do NOT false inform. To boot, its just PHYSICS, man. And yes, thank you for wishing me a nice week-end. And yes it was. Baseball and softball galore these past 2 days. A dash of visiting family and friends for a BBQ. Id say it was a GREAT week-end. I hope your week-end was just as nice as mine was. Even more!!!

Id buy something like that. Its just a render from a fan though. Not a legit concept.

The Maxima was a terrific sleeper of a family hauler in the 1980s and 1990s. It even became a sexy sedan in the 1990s. Too bad they mucked it up. I mean, I like the looks of the Maxima of today. It doesnt follow the usual lines of eveybody else's sedans. But it lost so much of its 1980s and 1990s identity. I used to love this car back in the day. Many people didnt know how fast this car was. My friends were all geeking over the German crap, I was geeking out over this and the Impala SS. Albeit, I was not so vocal about geeking out on the Japanese sports sedan... I, however, was SUPER loud on my hatred of BMWs back then!!! The Impala SS in black and the Maxima SE in white. Throw in a Pontiac Bonneville, Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme and Aurora and we round out my favorite more or less mainstream sedans of the day.

My order of Nissan Z favorites. The others dont quite make my list. Its not that I dont like them, its more like my feelings for them are neutral. They dont move the feelz meter for me one way or other.

Back when I was California dreamin', I was ashamed of Montreal and Quebec. The language issues, the Quebec trying to separate from Canada. the endless businesses closing up shop and moving away from Montreal and because I lived IN the city at this time I literally saw the vibrant city that is Montreal turn into a cold cold not quite ghost town, but close. Boarded up small businesses where I lived. Empty office buildings everywhere in the downtown core. This was in the mid 1980s. Even as a child in the 1970s, I could see Montreal was a special rockin' place. And all that went away in the 1980s. There was a lot of cool and positive imagery of California in that time. Karate Kid moving from New Jersey to California. Clark Griswold going to Wallyworld for a family vacation. (Yeah, you dont really see California all that much in that movie, its the constant mentioning of Wallyworld that you know Wallyworld and consequently California, must be a nice place to visit) etc. I had visited Greece at least 5 times by 1987 so I equated Greek summer weather and the beaches with California. And obviously California beaches were better because going to Surf City there is a Girl/Boy ratio of 2:1. All the muscle cars drag racing, etc... Montreal was my home town, but it was an embarrassment. Canada seemed to hate us. Americans, those that knew where we were and who we were always thought that we were weird for speaking French... Not a good image. I always loved NYC, but NYC always had this all business, no time for anyone and anything vibe to it. Too fast of a life. Sure, if you could make it there, you could make it anywere, but NYC would chew you up and spit you out. California was chill. Greece was chill. California WAS the place to live. You could make money, tons of it, but you could actually enjoy it too. But something happened. I did a 180 degree on Montreal and embraced the language issues, embraced that Quebec IS French. PHOQUE the English and the rest of Canada. I saw that even if Montreal's business side crumbled and there was practically nothing left of it, Montrealers and Quebecois KNEW how to have fun. I found that my Greek DNA for the lust for life and living and enjoying was very very much alive with Quebec culture and the French people. And as Montreal and Quebec slowly picked up the broken pieces and re-invented our economics, I in turn was proud of Montreal, the Province of Quebec, AND the East Coast. I started preferring NYC and Boston to LA, SF, San Diego, etc (Mind you, I have been to NYC and Boston many times and Im sure THAT helped for me to connect to NYC and Boston). If I wanted the beach life, The Caribbean, Jamaica, Florida are ON the East Coast. Greece is not THAT much farther away than what California is anyway. I sooooo want to visit and swim in the Pacific Ocean though. But its so clear to me now that the Mediterranean is where my soul belongs.

I wanna know when in the hell did people get bamboozled in thinking that CUVs are safer? Light tap from the back sends this CUV rolling over Sedan loses controll, hits barriers, still upright. Hits crossover pickup truck from Honda, sedan still upright, crossover pick up truck...rolls over... Slow speed, hits a car....rolls over

CUVs and SUVs sell at a higher MSRP than their sedan counterparts because THAT is what the market dictates and hence why the higher profit margins. But when sedans all go away, and there is nothing left BUT CUVs and SUVs, and there is a market adjustment in pricing for AFFORDABLE CUVs and SUVs, there WILL be CHEAPER priced CUV offerings. These cheaper CUV offerings will NOW take the place of the Corolla scenario... And if sedans DO make a comeback, they will probably command a higher price tag than their CUV counterpart reversing the scenario we have now... *SIGH* There is nothing new about all this. Its automotive business 101. What I dont understand is (aside from the downsizing of sedans) is how we got a whole phoquing continent to stop buying cars in favor of a lesser, unsafer, shyttier riding, less capable in hauling shyte CUVs... Less capable in hauling... YES!!! Less capable in hauling. Aside from the hatchback style opening, the back end does NOT fit MORE cargo. It fits maybe TALLER stuff, but NOT more stuff. Equinox back end Seats up...NOT down. What good does it make it for the seats to be down? Going on a trip with the family, where will the phoquing kids sit if the seats are down? Previous gen Malibu This gen Malibu A sedan based station wagon was even BETTER in hauling crap in the back... And this is true for ALL sedans versus their EQUIVALENT CUV counterparts. I owned a 2007 Ford Edge and a 2005 Impala SS. I moved from one house that I owned and sold to a new and current house I own now with these two cars. I fit more boxes in the Impala, seats down, than with the Edge, with the seats down. I put the TALLER boxes in the Edge, duh, but I fit more boxes in the Impala. And the Edge was a wider CUV than most in its class. The Edge was probably shorter than the Impala. Shorter wheelbase too. But it was a taller vehicle. It might have even been wider too. The rear cargo was humongous. Cavernous. But the Impala actually had a bigger...trunk. And THAT phenom is actually true across the board with the sedans versus their CUV counterparts. But...sedans have become too sporty and that the profile is more coupe like killing the benefits of hauling stuff with a sedan. But that is an attempt to spruce up the sedan sales. THAT didnt work, duh, as sedans are supposed to haul families, sealing the sedans fate faster to die. But I wanna know: When in the hell did people get soooooo stupid and bamboozled by this crap narrative that CUVs haul more stuff? Taller stuff, yes. NOT more stuff...

Im gonna continue to bash California. Why is it that I equate most "beautiful" residents of California as narcissistic, selfish, shytty people? Why is it that I think that most of these California peeps are like Amber Turd? Im gonna stop the bashing and Im gonna post songs that made me dream about California in a good way.

I get the feeling that Sheryl Crow's "All I wanna do is have some fun" song is a song denouncing California. Its kinda saying that the people she is interacting with are fake. She truly is the only one wanting to have real fun. I still dont like the song. Even though I learnt that what she may be saying is what I have learnt about California over the years and have fallen out of love with California myself and THAT is what she is trying to convey to us. That California is FAKE. (Never been there, mind you) I just dont like the song. I dont like ANY of Sheryl Crow's songs. I dont know why. I just dont like her songs. Something about her voice kills me. Id rather listen to Katy Perry and her rip off of the Beach Boys song of California Girls than listen to Sheryl Crow. Phoqued up.... I know!!!

meh... I never did like that "All I wanna do is have some fun on the Santa Monica Boulevard" song. "This is L.A.!!!" To which I say: BIIIIIG phoquing deal!!! I once dreamt about California and what it be like to live there. But slowly slowly, the mystical attraction, daze and hypnotic trance Los Angeles and Hollywood and Beverley Hills and Malibu Beach and San Francisco and all things California has vanished for me. Id like to visit, but I no longer have this yearn as Seinfeld's Kramer character put it, to live in California. From a song stand point, Id rather a late '70s and mid '80s Pink Cadillac vibe. The song projects more "fun" than what Mizz Crow suggests with her California song. Spending all our money on a Saturday night and having a party in the backseat of a Cadillac. Talking about cars, the Cadillac is bigger than a Honda and a Subaru too. The later, '80s pop version The earlier, bluesy original version I also prefer Mr. Petty's California mentioning songs more than Mizz Crow's Free Fallin' is more chill, I find

I wanna know why, all of a sudden, the Nissan Z is so praised for its looks and profile when it really is the same car as when it came out 15 years ago. The Z I posted on top there, has the SAME profile. Its just a refreshed front and rear, the new one is... OK, the rear hunches are massaged as well to have less child bearing hips. Its less of a Coke bottle design Am I the only one to prefer the refreshed 370Z version more than the re-refreshed 2022? Original 350Z I do prefer the newest version over the OG, though.

Absolutely. Whatever you said is so right. But a Camry is quite comfortable as well. Maybe not for David. Its too small for him. But what makes a Camry a Lemming (for him) and NOT a Tahoe, Grand Cherokee, GMT 360 Trailblazer (non SS model) as such? Especially with the amount of sales CUVs and SUVs are getting from North Americans the last decade. Sheeple are following other sheeple and buying CUV/SUVs because these sheeple think CUV/SUVs are safer, more bigger to haul stuff, more comfortable yada yada yada. All not true when compared to their sedan equivalent counterparts. A Camry was NEVER an exciting vehicle in its entire existence. What family hauling sedan is? Was a family hauling sedan ever an exciting vehicle? The point is, CUV/SUVs dont do well in potholes either. They break just like sedans do in potholes. Point is, a Camry hauls just as much stuff as its CUV counterpart. I believe its the Highlander. The only thing the Highlander does better than the Camry is that hatch. It opens up big and tall as compared to the Camry's trunk. But as far as passengers go, same. The Highlander makes it easier to for people to get in and out of as compared to the Camry, but the Camry has a waaaaay lower risk of a roll over. Roll overs are lethal for the passengers inside. Potholes were I come from are brutal too. It dont matter if a car has airshocks, the kinds of potholes we have to deal with makes airshocks a moot point. Unless these airshocks are of the intelligent kind where a camera and a sensor see a pothole before the tires hit it and adjust the suspension travel while passing over the pothole. Point is, to counter what Dave said, people wont buy a CUV/SUV over a sedan because potholes are brutal. Potholes are brutal equally for sedans as for CUV/SUVs. Exciting cars do have stiffer suspensions, and when not equipped by magnetic shocks, do have an uncomfortable ride. Problem is, throughout North America's history of the automobile and hauling families, exciting cars have NEVER had a prominent sales advantage over the mundane. That is true for any decade and its true for any type of vehicle, sedan, CUV or otherwise. Average Joe dad and mom simply dont buy exciting vehicles to haul their families around. In fact, average joe moms and dads buy lemming vehicles because average joe moms and dads are lemmings themselves... Dave does own a GMT360 V8 powered rocket SUV. But he also owns a very comfortable Escalade. The Escalade is not a lemming vehicle and the Trailblazer SS is not either. However, the Escalade's cousin, the Tahoe and the SS's brother, the lesser Trailblazer, these are vehicles that are as boring as they can get. A V6 Camry could actually be funner to drive... The Tahoe might perform better in potholes, as the Escalade as far as comfort goes, but BOTH Trailblazers will punish its occupants, ESPECIALLY the SS, and both Trailblazer trims WILL break suspension parts if the pothole is not avoided or hit in a specific way especially at a higher speed if the driver is not vigilant. And a sudden evasive movement and especially the GMT360, non SS, and it WILL roll over... This is all Im saying. My disdain for CUVs and SUVs goes beyond the realm of excitement... My disdain for these vehicles also include the false narrative of CUVs that CUVs are more comfortable than sedans, safer, yada yada yada. The fact that CUVs also restrict and discourage enthusiastic driving by means of higher center of gravity, unnecessary heft and weight and crappy weight distribution also contributes to this. A Camry may wallow, but you could still toss it around. It will squeal, and complain, but it will do it. It will have heavy understeer. But it will do it. A CUV WILL topple over... Again, not including the performance oriented CUVs that rely on electronic technological wizardry to keep that top heavy $h! box from toppling over.

True. But being a lemming automobile like a Camry or an Accord is no different than being a lemming SUV like a Tahoe... (Suburban has its merits...) But a Tahoe? What is the attraction of a Tahoe? What makes it so exciting? Its not fast... I mean its got a pretty powerful V8 up there, but it does have to lug around all that weight so it doesnt really accelerate with all that much gusto. A V6 lemming of a Camry is pretty quick of the line. Its not bad considering that V6 is ancient. But it does have 300 horses on a very very lighter frame. The Tahoe handles like a whale. So does a Camry. Now do you understand where Im going with the Tahoe bashing? And unto a another SUV. ANY SUV that hasnt been tuned by technological wizardry performance makes like an AMG from Mercedes or M from BMW or a Porsche and Lamborghini SUV... ANY CUV and SUV is the very definition of the word lemming... Now more so than ever. At least in the 1980s, real SUVs were REAL enthusiast type of vehicles... You see that K5? Its covered in mud, right? Today's Tahoe is covered in Starbucks coffee that the soccer mom spilled on it by being distracted by being on her smart phone Tik Toking a cleavage and a$$ selfie and posting it on Instagram...

What does that have to do with anything? A pothole will just as easily break a CUV/SUVs suspension and wheels and wheel bearings and ball joints as it does sedans... And as CCAP stated, most of the family hauling shytty CUVs/SUVs ride on car tires. Their suspension systems are also sedan related. Even if you throw the Jeep Grand Cherokee at me, potholes eat these SUVs up as well. The fullsized BOF SUVs from GM and Ford? With all that heft? Those just CONTRIBUTE to even shyttier roads... David, honestly, get off that SUV high horse. You dont fit in the smaller sedans and that is cool. But just because you only fit it the bigger SUVs, dont knock the sedan just because you dont fit in a sedan. Yes, people in North America have run away from the sedan. Yes one of the reasons is because the sedan has become small. But CUVs have bamboozled people in thinking that CUVs are bigger than their sedan counterparts. They are not. They are taller. Not bigger. Taller also means ease of entry. But ease of entry does not mean bigger. Also, taller is somehow equated to being safer. Which is false false and more false. Higher center of gravity also means more chances of a roll over. We've been down THAT road before, and whether you believe that to be true or not does not make me care all that much. Why? Because physics guides me. I dont know what guides you if you dont believe in higher center of gravity CUVs actually have a more percentage of a roll over than a lower to the ground sedan... You do you. But dont be talking a smack game about CUVs and SUVs absorbing potholes better than sedans because that narration is pure bull.

Cool place. But HATE to break it to ya. Cars could do THAT just fine. Oh no.... NOT big American land yachts of yore. But little Euro jobs. You are forgetting that Europe, mostly ALL of Europe is exactly like that. Ive been to my mom's village many a time. Done many donkey trails, by foot, by donkey and by...small Japanese and European autos. And these trails were narrower than what that first video showed me. BTW, the cars that I rode in were FWD Daewoos and Renaults and countless of RWD BMWs, Mercedes and Opels. A Mitsubishi Galant coupe as well. (the Dodge Challenger here States side in the early '80s) And Im not talking about the main roads either. And those are scary enough. No...Literally donkey trails up mountain sides leading nowhere but to other donkey trails connecting villages and farm lands when as short cuts as the main roads take too long to travel because the main roads follow the curvature of the mountain. These donkey trails cuts through the mountains. Steep and dangerous...by foot. Anything else is just suicide. Including being hauled by a donkey...

Tonight's a night where there are no more chances. The Blues better buckle down and play their style of hockey. Hard and gritty. But NOT to solely target Kadri. They tried to get revenge but the bum got a hat trick. He played an awesome game though. The kind of game that the Blues played makes players like Kadri salivate and rise up to the challenge. The Blues just got to play hard, and force Kadri to make mistakes. And dont kid yourself, he WILL make mistakes.