oldshurst442

Ill ease up on the salt. LOL Its a great day in Montreal SUNNY!!! and WARM!!! Ok... The name of the thread is: competition to destroy Tesla. Not from Mercedes I says for the third time in this thread. Not only for trolling SMK, but based in reality. Its common knowledge that Tesla's EV tech is years ahead of the competition. Its only natural. Tesla has been studying this, R and D-ind this for quite longer than some others. Mercedes is lagging in that department. Strike One against Mercedes. But my reasoning of why Mercedes EVs will be languishing on the floor in 2024 is not only because of the lagging behind in tech as compared not only to Tesla, but to GM and Ford as well. Volkswagen group with Audi's Etron GT and Porsche's Taycan is ALSO ahead of the Mercedes EQS' tech. And Porsche will have a jab at their second attempt to improve upon the Taycan about this time around. Porsche and Audi twins are gonna be FORMIDABLE come 2024 or 2025. Another point: Which is Strike Two: STYLE The EQS is ugly NOW. ALL offerings of EQE and EQB are UGLY. And these will come out in 2022. In 2024, they will be THAT MUCH MORE outdated. tech AND ESPECIALLY styling wise. Mercedes top luxury cars, the limosine type cars, the S Class, has ALWAYS been STATELY. Boring...but STATELY. Boring we could live with as long as its STATELY. Ugly is NOT exciting. The thing is, the EQS is not even stately. The KEY feature of any top Mercedes is STATELY. One could argue the EQB is stately. I will give in to that idea. But the other two just fall short in every way that shouldnt be in order for Mercedes to stand out in the EV arena in 2024. Not forgetting that Cadillac will have a stately Lyriq (I dont like it, but to many its not only sexy, but stately as well. The Lucid Air. Lucid's SUV... etc etc etc...

Maybe you should NOT cherry pick? The conversation was that they are gonna be languishing on the floor...in 2024... He (SMK) mentioned 2024. I kindly responded in the context of 2024. As @surreal1272 pointed out, and Im not stupid to know that there is a penurie of chips and therefore there is a penurie of new cars available to buy and therefore no languishing of cars for the most part for most brands and for most models are happening right now and for at least well into 2023... I dunno...reading and reading comprehension aint that hard if you have completed primary school. But yeah...feel free to call me out on YOUR lack of reading comprehension... (penurie...french for shortage.) FREE French lesson for the day. Second time somebody has reading problems in this thread. I will start teaching you folks french. Maybe we will understand each other better as it seems plain 'ole English is problematic...

Yup... This is the EXACT quote! The Rivian was not made to outsell the F150 nor the Silverado. The Rivian was not made to outsell any of the Teslas. The Rivian was not made to out luxury any Cadillac, Mercedes or to outperform speed metrics from Tesla, Ferrari etc. Rivian was not even made to out offroad any Hummer or an eventual EV Land Rover and EV Jeep. Rivian created a possibly new EV niche from an existing yet small niche of the lifestyle pick-up, SUV, hatchback Subaru internal combustion offering. That of the outdoorsy, bicycle riding, fishing in the wild rivers and lakes of North America, rock climbing in the Appalachians, skiing in the Rockies and in Aspen, lifestyle. The bow and arrow hunting, bungee jumping lycra wearing youtube influencing Tik Tokkers. How big of a pie that is is anybody's guess. But its an EV niche that belongs ALL to themselves as the Cybertruck from Tesla somehow is the same niche. Im bet though, Rivian R1T and their SUV counterpart will still outsell the Mercedes trio of EVs no matter how small that niche is... Mind you, this niche is an old niche. The Jeep CJ and Ford Bronco did that 60-70 years ago and its an on going thing, this time its from a green EV point of view. Mercedes could have done something like that and beat Rivian to the punch. They got existing ICEVs in their current stable... https://www.mercedes-benz.com/en/vehicles/transporter/the-new-sprinter-4x4-new-options-offroad/ They were too busy trying to phone it in with a Nissan badge job with a gas powered engine... Mercedes lost precious time and EV engineering knowledge and conceded to many manufacturers in the EV era... Mercedes has NOTHING to offer to ANYBODY in the EV era... Just to blind peons that will cling on to the glory of the good 'ole days when Mercedes was product placing in Hollywood movie blockbusters suck as Jurassic Park. Soooooooo '90s. BTW, Im curious, you still watch F*R*I*E*N*D*S?

Level 3 autonomous is bogus. For everybody. EVERYBODY is PAYING OVER sticker EVERYWHERE With the Rivian, you sound like a child... Mercedes literally doesnt sell ANY EVs to the public worth mentioning. Mercedes is a lost cause for EVs...

Mercedes lacks in 2 key areas. 1. Style. And that is saying a lot. LOL 2. Tech. Mercedes is at least 10 years behind Tesla in software, motor and battery tech. Means nothing when Mercedes EV will be languishing on dealership floors. Once GM gets their EVs going, Mercedes will not stand a chance not only against Tesla, but GM too. LOL. Lucid will be cleaning Mercedes clock in 2024. LOL The Lucid Air is easily besting the EQS in EVERY metric. LOL You keep on saying that. But its simply not true. Not for EVs... Tesla is STILL considered THE benchmark in the who's who in automotive world. And nobody is impressed with Mercedes' EVs. Its sad when the automotive world still praise Tesla's EVs over Mercedes' offerings. But you know what? The Lucid Air, GMC Hummer, Ford Mach E and Rivian R1T all have made the automotive world giggle, raise eyebrows and actually envision a world where these offerings could not only co-exist with Tesla EVs, but actually take the crown AWAY from Tesla EVs in many categories. Even the Hyundai Ioniq 5 has managed to raise eyebrows and put the spotlight AWAY from the Tesla Model 3. No. Not in speed, but for excellent day to day EV livability with absolutely NO compromises as we have been accustomed to when we speak of Tesla EVs. Mercedes' offerings not only fall waaaaay short comparing them to Teslas, but Mercedes EQS falls short with the Lucid Air, the EQB falls waaaaay short of the Hummer and most probably the Cadillac Lyriq in shytes and giggles and status (Hummer) and the Lyriq for range, software, style... The Rivian is in a league of its own. There is virtually NOTHING that Mercedes will offer that will rival Rivian. Rivian created its own niche. Something that Mercedes flubbed. Following instead of leading. Ford Mach E begs to differ. Hummer which is as expensive as a Model S also begs to differ. But the Hummer is a Lamborghini Countach. A Ferrari Testarossa. Its a poster vehicle. Its to make people look and stare and say WTF is that in admiration. And the Hummer from GMC, like all other Hummers from the past, 20 years ago, has succeeded. NOBODY talks about current Mercedes EVs this way. In shock and in awe with glee. Just in shock as in how phoquing ugly are these things? All the youtube channels, the automotive press, the people I ask around me, all find the Lucid Air, GMC Hummer, Ford Mach E and Rivian R1T as interesting and great EVs. Some say the Hummer is overkill, but they understand why. Not one sumbitch even mentions the Mercedes EVs. Lost in the shuffle they are. Plenty of Quebecois I talk to have their sights on the Ioniq 5. Nobody even knows the EQE and the EQB exists... They ALL know the Rivian, Mach E and the Hummer. And they all have a very fun and positive response to them. Some car guys HATE the Mach E as they say its not a real Mustang. Problem is, for Mercedes, they KNOW its an EV and IT EXISTS... These are car guys, and they do NOT know that ANY Mercedes EQ exists... Chew on THAT for awhile...

This thread is asking if competition is going to destroy Tesla. Ive answered this before in this thread. And the answer remains the same: CERTAINLY NOT FROM MERCEDES!!!

Oozing with style. Styled like its 1999 1999 2009 And a glimpse of the wildly hopeful and awesome future that Mercedes will sell us. Meant for kings of kings.

I didnt really enjoy the song. But I did get a giggle or two and warm fuzzies with the '80s references.

Luxury evolution in North America OOZING with class and style made for kings of kings.

Mercedes as a luxury brand...in North America....in 2022? We have had this conversation over and over. Ive had this conversation since the 1990s. Im sick of it. Mercedes made luxury cars up until 1939. After 1945, Mercedes sold cars for a rebuilding Europe in Europe. Mercedes didnt have to resort to entry level cars, but they did have to sell to Average Joe Europeans. They didnt have to resort to those. They sold to Europeans who had a steady income. 1946-1953 They didnt sell anything in North America until way into the 1950s. As the 1950s rolled in, West Germany was coming out of the war. France and the UK too. But there was no real wealthy clientele to build a luxury vehicle portfolio from. They started out offering a model that was catered to business people. 1953 Some really really talented engineers did get together to engineer this But it was strictly for the wealthy OUTSIDE of Europe... And THAT is the post war history of Mercedes of how Mercedes is defined as a luxury maker. In North America, Mercedes has kept their image intact. In Europe, Mercedes is a brand that caters to all markets. Low class vehicle. Mid class and luxury. Trucks. Busses. Military. HOWEVER, Mercedes in North America, to boost car volume, to survive, have basically tried to apply their European image. Have gone DOWNMARKET the last 25 years and especially the last 10. Ironically, despite getting a foothold in the US market AS AN ACCEPTED luxury brand IN THE 1990s, they also focused on going DOWNMARKET IN THIS EXACT SAME TIMEFRAME. Wool over the eyes of many many Americans.. I still cant fathom on how somebody as proud as an American could be soooooo pissed at American cars, for whatever reason, but yet buy something foreign. Pretend that foreign shytebox is better than the American counterpart, when it falls apart faster than the American car, is purely a pedestrian car in its home country and be bamboozled that its luxury in North America. And somebody points that out only to be laughed at. Just as a reference when we are talking about Mercedes as a luxury car maker post war... Because price was a point of contention regarding luxury as a discussion a year or two ago regarding luxury pick-up trucks. Conclusion is price is not a factor. Tech is a factor. But American cars have ALWAYS been innovative. At worse: AS innovative as Mercedes. But more realistically, MORE innovative than Mercedes. Style and history. The photos speak VOLUMES... 1949-1952 1953 But I know what we are gonna do... history be damned and we will ignore it JUST to ALWAS prop up Mercedes... Keep this in mind though when we cast aside "good 'ole day" Buicks because Buick is nowhere near what they were in the 1950s If Buick has fallen from grace, I wonder if some folk think the same for Mercedes?

One gripe I did have with Porsche was the rumour and conspiracy theory that Porsche hamstrung the Cayman as to not outperform the 911. But low and behold, they have come up with the 718 Cayman GT4 RS this year (they have put the (911's GT3 engine in it) and the automotive world has gone bonkers for it. They say its the best mid-engined sports car around. And Im not surprised Porsche would do this. Porsche hates being in 2nd place. Ferrari has been pushing upwards. Corvette has been pushing upwards with the C8. Finally, the Cayman gets the proper engines, the proper tuning in suspensions to BE the best. The Cayman ALWAYS had the potential to be the best. Even better than the 911. I still prefer the 911, but with this entry, it makes me respect Porsche even more. And for Porsche-files, they need not have to think about the "what if" scenarios, this car shows them what a mid-engined Porsche could really do. The 911 has a fault. And 911 folk deep down inside KNOW. AWD could eliminate most of those faults. Evolutionary engineering has also eliminated much of that rear engine fault. But the fault is still inherent. The Cayman GT4 RS is truly Porsche's answer. Corvette REALLY needs put out a PURE track oriented C8 . The way the Z06 is gonna be, its gonna be a mix of a pure track car AND a GT car. Too many features on the Z06 that favour comfort cruising rather than tracking. The Z06 will be a killer track car, and it will be track car focused like no other Corvette ever engineered. It will probably have a sub 7 second 'Ring time. It will punch above its price point. But the Z06 will still not be that pure, raw track car. THIS is my wish for the Corvette. To have many many variants for all the flavours. To have a DIRECT competitor with EVERY SINGLE Porsche 911 and Cayman. Yes. I realize that this means 100 versions of the C8. Porsche does it. I want Corvette to do it too. Yes. I realize that Porsche is a company within a company and a brand and Corvette is just one model within the Chevrolet brand within the company General Motors. Maybe though, in an EV world, many variants of a Corvette is not possible as EVs will look liek they will all be the same flavour. Battery on the bottom of the platform in a skateboard platform. Dual, tri motor set-ups. 4 motor set-ups for off roaders. Power in an EV seems to be the same. Software programming seems to be getting to be the same...

I really really respect Porsche. I really really like what they do with the 911 and when they do super/hyper cars like the 959, Carrera GT and 918. They havent always given their sports cars THE best engineering, but it was such a looooong time ago when they were half-assing it. Like @ccap41 said, TODAY, they produce fine and awesome cars. Yeah, even their CUVs and SUVs. (Hating to admit ANY CUV or SUV regardless the manufacturer as a fine product... ??) Their production of CUVs and SUVs have created another fandom and fan base separate from their 911 and their sportscars. Its a good thing for parent company VW, Im not so sure if that is a good thing for Porsche. They better not phoque up the 911 when it (the 911) eventually goes EV because Porsche's true image(that of a no nonsense, pure sports car) will be done for. An EV 911 will be such a different animal from the 911, they better figure out how to accomplish making a heavy EV 911 be nimble around a track. And I really mean nimble. Nimble is different from good handling. Heft is the enemy of nimble... An EV 911 will also have much much different handling characteristics from a classic 911. Normally that wouldnt be a problem, but for the 911 its gonna be huge. Why? Because a 911 has been evolving. And BECAUSE the motor is in the rear, the handling aspect of a 911 is unique. Porsche has carefully perfected the 911 handling over its 60 year history. And its such a unique characteristic that many love. Its 911 DNA. If folk got pi$$ed when Corvette went mid-engine, oh boy the whining of when the 911 goes EV and the carefully crafted evolution of the 911 is going to vanish instantly... Just a thought I had that popped in my head reading this thread.

25 thousand average daily drive KILOMETERS. 12-15 thousand miles. When I wrote 25 thousand average miles, I had kilometers in mind. I wanted to state 12-15 thousand miles. 25 thousand would be the average mileage in kilometers for North Americans...

Fool and his money with that Camaro as well. But like I did my post above. Getting a Camaro to where its safe to daily drive in 2022...WILL make you spend more money than what the car will eventually be worth. EVEN if it reverts to being a 15 000 dollar POS like this one. At least a Camaro has the potential to be worth 15K after being daily driven hard and not 500 dollars at the scrap yard like an EV converted Aurora... But...THIS one will need lots and lots of body work. Even if this project is for a garage queen easy flip, the amount of time and money spent on it might not fetch the money spent on it when the project is done. The person restoring it will have to keep a magic number in his head to what he thinks the finished project will be worth. Then the restorer needs to figure out what type of project car it will end up being. A restomod. A clone car of a certain trim. Whatever. Then the restorer will have to make a list of what he needs to complete it with prices in his worksheet to make a budget so he does not exceed the forecasted value...

Dont be coy... Buy that Camaro @ 54 000 dollars. Good. But it aint going anywhere as its got no powertrain... Personally, I would NEVER buy THAT Camaro @ 54 000 U.S. BECAUSE its got no powertrain...but a fool and his money are soon parted and I aint no fool, but I digress. A car is worth as much as the next guy wants to buy it... OK... Buy that Camaro @ 54 000 but its a heavy and huge paperweight. It aint good for anything other than telling your stupid foolish a$$ that you got a huge and heavy paperweight in the shape and form of a 1969 Camaro... If you want to actually drive the thing, you gots to put a working engine in it. Its got a block. That is it. A block with no pistons and no rods and no pushrods and no springs and no tappets and no fuel hoses etc will be a time consuming endeavor to buy and acquire individually. Presumably its a classic big or small block from the era. Like who makes those individual things anymore? I dont think Year One and other sources similar make them. And Im also assuming it will be an expensive endeavor as well. Buying a turn key GM crate engine outright, a connect and cruise type deal, will set you back 10 000 dollars. For the LT1. Want more muscle and power like an LT4? Pony up more money to the tune of 17 000. The Camaro does have a transmission, but now we are playing with modern stuff, so a modern transmission is a must. Add 5 000. Although some money could be recuperated by selling old transmission on E-Bay. But 54 000 plus 15 000 equals 69 000. That Camaro doesnt look like the brakes will be sufficient enough for the modern powertrain. Nor the suspension and the steering. Besides, it WILL be a daily driver so it will be advantageous for it to have modern brakes and suspensions, not only for safety, but for comfort as 50 years of automotive evolution has made us never wanting to go back to the "good 'ole days." To deny that would be disingenuous no matter how much of a classic car nut you are. Kaching Kaching is the sound of the cash register. Oh no...not because you are going to rake in the money selling it, but that is the sound of Year One's cash register that YOU will be giving your money to on upgrading the Camaro... That 54 000 dollar Camaro that you bought is now dangerously close in being a 100 000 dollar Camaro. Oh no!!!...NOT what its worth. Its what is costing you... It might actually be worth 100 000 to somebody after you are finished restoring/modding/prepping it. Problem is, YOU want to daily drive it. And you could daily it this way by restomodding it. It will be safe, and it will be comfy. THAT is the idea, non? But once you put 25 thousand miles on it, hard miles, the first year, because THIS is what we are talking about, right? When talking about daily-ing an EV convert Aurora, apples to apples...the value goes down by half, just like any other car. You know, parking lot dings, Big Mac sauce and coffee spills, mud, sand, dust, rock chips on the hood. Maybe a windshield ding... Its a daily driver after all... After year two, more chances of having minor fender benders. If driven in the rust belt, and the car was not rust proofed like a modern one, expect it to have holes after year 6. Always keeping in context that we are not babying that Camaro. Its a daily driver...

Well, Im certainly NOT buying an Aurora from the Quebec region (or any other rust belt region) to make this transformation, that is for sure! And I may not be restoring the Aurora to garage queen status because that may cost an astronomical amount of money to do. If a drive -able Aurora exists in 2022/2023/2024, than Id fix, repair and restore it to levels were it would be SAFE to daily drive. And yeah, that will take a good amount of coin to do so but it wouldnt be astronomical either. It be to levels of where it cost to do as much as buying a Tesla Model 3 or Ford Mach E with all the bells and whistles. 60 to 70 grand. Rough guestimate from not actual experience of restoring cars, but from watching TV shows and dreaming of restoring and guestimating it with actual, pseudo-factual research... With the same pseudo-factual research, I could confidently say that the amount I stated for the Aurora would not be far from what it would cost to restore a classic car to reach safe daily driven status. It may even cost MORE. With the example you gave, that Camaro's winning bid was 54 000. No transmission and no desirable engine. It was only a bare block engine. If you arent going the wrecked Sliverado/Camaro/Corvette/Escalade/Tahoe etc scrap car route for an engine and go directly to GM's brand new crate engines, a LT1 V8 still costs 8 000 dollars. Plus all the bolt ons that need to be bolted on to function... Radiators and hoses and alternators etc... And although a 1969 Camaro is OBVIOUSLY more desirable than a FWD, 1990s jellybean defunct branded, old geazer personal coupe from a shytty American automotive manufacturer giant that fabricates cheap cars that fall apart (GM's image of the 1990s as opposed to GM's image in 1969), like I stated earlier, the 1969 Camaro when daily driven WILL lose half its value the first year. Maybe a #1 level restomodded Camaro will be worth about 100 000 to somebody. To get the Camaro to that level, its easy to spend THAT much coin to match its worth. As soon as we daily drive it, that daily driven Camaro falls QUICKLY to 54 000 dollars as we see in your post... REGARDLESS of motive power.... Difference is, the Aurora will NEVER be worth 54 000 dollars, I agree. Point is: 1. Money lost is STILL money lost. 2. When restoring a car no matter what the motivation is, a car restorer should NEVER look at what the car WILL be worth after the project is finished IF the restorer wants to use that car. THAT restored car will ALWAYS BE a money pit and money loser. Money lost is STILL money lost. 3. Insurance is the ONLY disadvantage I see in spending money on an Aurora EV-ing it vis-a-vis restoring a classic car. Get into a car accident daily driving an Aurora, and the insurance pay-out will not be worth the time and money spent doing so as opposed to the classic car. But then again, daily driving a restored classic car will not fetch you #1 level rating. The insurance category for garage queens and daily driven classic are NOT the same... I dont know how much a daily driven car will be worth to the insurance company. 4. Me personally, if I ever do such a thing, I would make sure I have 60 thousand dollars to burn, but Id be using that Aurora daily, driving it to the ground. Im driving it for 10 years making sure after 10 years it WILL be worth next to nothing but I will be getting ALL my money's worth from doing this conversion no different than buying a new Mach E and driving IT 10 years, driving IT to the ground and getting my money's worth for THAT EV...

As soon as that #4 '69 Camaro Z/28 is daily driven, it will experience the same depreciation as a 2022 Camaro and it will lose half its value after the first year. Garage Queen it and this conversation becomes useless... Drive it the winter in Michigan or in Quebec and that 1960s iron will rust within 5-6 years making it worthless. 1960s rust proofing tech was well...it wasnt. But...a 2022 Camaro, could actually BE driven in Michigan and in Quebec and it will rust at a much slower pace and to equal the rust damage of that #4 Camaro will be double at 10 years. #4 Camaro with 1960s tech, will not be fun to daily drive as we have been accustomed to 60 years of automotive refinement. Bring that 1960s Camaro to the modern world, and that #4 Camaro worth 45 000 dollars will cost you 80 thousand dollars. It may or may NOT fetch 80 000 dollars at an auction. Daily drive that restomodded Camaro and it WILL lose half its value after the 1st year and no way will you recoup your investment. Again...Garage Queen the restomod Camaro to preserve its value and this conversation is useless... as cars are MEANT to be driven.

Ill continue my rant which now I will further connect the Vaccine thread. About misinformation and hidden agenda a$$holes. I get that a majority of people living in North America do NOT own their own home or a home where a home charger could be installed... With THAT aside, hidden agenda a$$holes have fueled this fear of EVs needing to have 400-500-600-700-800-1000 miles of range to ease range anxiety when in reality, a 60 KW/H battery with a range of 150/180/200/220 miles of range is MORE than plenty for everyday, daily driving regardless if its -40 degrees WITH a snowstorm collecting 3 feet of snow... This fear of EVs has also made EVs unnecessarily more expensive upselling battery juice and up-tech-ing unneeded battery power for unnecessary range contributing to the price tag of everyday, Average Joe EVs... Instead of using the unnecessary cost to R&D unnecessary battery power for mostly unnecessary range to lower the cost of daily driven EVs for Average Joes to put to market cheaper EVs and for the money saved to be used to CREATE a more vast charging infrastructure so even folk without a home that has access to home charging, the OEMS are focusing on OVERengineering and OVER selling EVs... But, irony is that these hidden agenda a$$holes are pushing EV producers to ACCELERATE BEs to be SUPERIOR to their ICE counterparts because of their fear mongering... Faster. More pampering tech. More range. The Lucid Air has a range of 500 miles... Its a limousine of a car and its faster than 90% of exotic super sports cars. The Tesla Model S, an EV that is a decade old will also have, soon, a range nearing 500 miles, but it already beats 100% of ALL superduper hyper sports cars. Forgetting that home chargers exist, charging ports will soon charge cars with half the speed of even fueling up with gasoline... Also, recharging as you drive, recharging while the sun hits your car are also tech that exists today... Imagine if THAT tech ever becomes mainstream???!!! Comes at a cost? Ive already discovered that people WANT tech laden automobiles regardless what that costs... We bitch about the cost and we bitch about the complexity, but we are happy as pigs in shyte that it exists and we want to own and experience over engineered, gluttonous tech wizadry. Especially in our cars.

About Covid and misinformation and thee science changing... Of course the science of Covid changed over the course of the pandemic. The science behind preventing and curing is still changing and will continue to change because: 1. Covid was a new disease and our doctors knew nothing about it. Preventive measures HAD to be put into place regardless if some of it was not effective. An erroneous decision is better than no decision. 2. It kept on changing as we learned more about it. As some measures were not effective. Other measures were introduced to better protect ourselves. 3. And this cycle will continue as we learn more about Covid and as Covid continues to evolve. It seems that its evolving but becoming less deadly. But with vaccines... No vaccines and for the unvaccinated, Covid is as deadly for some. However, the older, deadlier strands are still present with us. Those have NOT gone away... So...our learning about how this disease survives and evolves will continue to evolve. 4. Yes, there was MISINFORMATION about MASK WEARING in the beginning. LIES. Doctors said we did not need masks. Then they said we need them... *SIGH* THAT was said because health authorities KNEW humans in general are garbage. THAT was to protect the health organizations, hospitals, doctors and nurses. How so? So garbage humans dont HOARD the masks... Like they acted with phoquing toilet paper... 5. But that lie PALES in comparison to what garbage hidden agenda a$$holes did and continue to do to weaponize this pandemic... Same garbage, human waste outfit that has cried foul for the Sandy Hook shootings, for the elections, Freedom Convoys in Ottawa... Some have cried foul of Covid because Covid has mildly inconvenienced them... Some have cried foul because they actually benefit from the misinformation mayhem. I am NOT saying not to question stupid politicians. I am NOT saying not to question politicians because some of them (most of them?) DO have hidden agendas.... What I AM saying though, is that somewhere down the line, you have to start accepting politicians words and you have to start questioning loud mouth human waste garbage that just spew things with nothing but vitriol and nothing of substance. And as far as politicians go, sometimes human waste politicians are EASY to spot and are part of the misinformation...

Because we love cars? Finding and restoring barn finds will also cost the restorer about that much as well. Why go through the trouble to fix barn find Camaros/Mustangs/Challengers when their modern V8 counterparts cost just as much as restoring the classic ones? As far as the Olds Aurora/Tesla Model 3 electric thing goes? This? Or this? Id rather the Aurora. And Im recycling...

Let me clarify my rant. In the beginning of the automotive era, the automobile was a luxury item. It was available and catered only to the rich. In Europe and in North America. Along comes Henry Ford and he had the fantastic idea to democratize the automobile. These cars that he built and sold were far from being plush and were far from pampering their owners. They were indeed work vehicles. Dodge, Chevrolet and others joined Ford in this way. Along the way, as North America was having their standards of living raised to unseen levels before in human history, even the poor got the idea to be pampered. (And why not?) But somewhere there is a lost in translation. As we are entering a new era of human transportation as the automobile is changing what powers it to move forward, with a technology that is simply too expensive to democratize, nobody, INCLUDING the (most) greenies are not willing to compromise in their creature comforts to be able to allow this transformation to happen as affordable as possible. We want our cake and eat it too. And to that I say...why not???!!! But to put things in perspective, we shouldnt be bitchin' on why cars have become so expensive (ICE or BE) and why EVs are not as affordable as they should be. Ironically, the airplane travel industry is a reversing trend as compared to the automobile transportation. Airplane travel easily up until the 1970s was mostly for the rich. (Not including the warplanes. Those were for killing ourselves) Along comes the 747 and that plane single handedly democratized airplane travel AND globe trotting vacationing. The Concorde that was introduced at the same time continued with the theme of only the rich get to have fun. And since the late '60s/early '70s, airplane travel has been trying to get cheaper and cheaper for EVERYBODY to fly eliminating ALL that PAMPERS the traveler.

I watched the youtube vid that @balthazar posted over at the Random Thoughts thread. When the dude was showing us the car in detail, the engine bay, the 4 cylinder, the running boards (made of wood), the very spartan but very workable and the lack of unnecessary and useless gadgets, made me realize one thing... Especially reading what @surreal1272 suggested that nobody actually wants a Nissan Leaf. I was thinking about the the costs and price tags of today's cars. I was thinking about Apple Car Play and butt massagers and heated and cooled seats AND steering wheels and electric windows... On ENTRY level vehicles whose starting price all start where luxury cars started 20 years ago. Where all those things only luxury cars offered... I was looking at the engine of that Ford Model A and how crude but easy it was to wrench on. How anybody could wrench on it. How everything was actually accessible so ANYBODY could wrench on them. That engine bay and the spartan interior. That made me realize ONE thing: NOBODY in North America WANTS an easy to fix, no frills, low tech and spartan vehicle. We all want to be spoiled. We all want the frills. We dont want to pay for any of it. We want to bitch and moan and whine WHY cars are sooooo expensive, but we want to be splashed with 'luxury' with useless shyte so we could 'feel' comfortable while we drive. Im not saying we should have wood floorboards, no insulation, no heat or air con... But we dont really need Apple Car Play and butt massagers while the seat ALSO heats or cools our a$$ as well... Gone are the days of the Model T and Model A that TRULY WERE for the every day man and woman. There is no humbleness in our daily lives anymore... In today's world... (see my rant about how North Americans have lived spoiled lives since WW2 in the Vaccine thread to make the connection here as well)

Looks like I have to choose another classic Oldsmobile to electrify. Either hypothetically or who knows, for real! Maybe what @David answered, maybe a GM Ultium E Crate package could be made to convert an Aurora. The thing that I find interesting is that the Aurora's styling still looks like it could be from today. Maybe the belt line is lower than today's cars, it certainly has today's aero styling and EV grill-less face.

Original set-up as in V8 up front? Hypothetically speaking with all this conversation, I would prefer to electrify the Aurora. If you are telling me that a motor and suspension set-up like a Model 3 will not fit in the back, then Ill just be happy with one motor upfront. A conversion of any kind regarding ICE to BE will be expensive no matter what. Im talking hypotheticals because I really do want an EV sometime in the near future. And we are closing in on 2023 and I haven seen one EV from ANY manufacturer so far that peaks my interests. Reading @regfootball's posts in the Equinox EV thread, I share his sentiment that GM so far as of March 28, 2022 hasnt really offered any EV of substance to gain market control and share. All of their EVs so far seem to be compliance vehicles. (Drama Queen statements, for sure. Trying to make a dramatical point) The ones that are not, are unobtanium and really really suck as daily drivers. Great at being poster dream machines (the GMC Hummer EV), but that is it. And that goes for all other EV makers. (In not producing EVs that I want to own and drive) After 2023, I dunno who will make an EV suitable for my needs with an exterior that I enjoy, but I do enjoy an Aurora and hypothetically speaking, spending about the same amount of money that buys a Cadillac Lyriq, or at least to try to keep a project within a Cadillac Lyriq budget, Id much prefer to own an electrified Aurora. I realize that a Cadillac Lyriq is gonna please plenty of people, and hopefully for GM, it will be an EV success along the lines of a Tesla vehicle, the Lyriq falls way way short of pleasing me. I see more and more of Ford's Mach E where I live, and that EV pleases me, sigh, I really really dont like CUVs.