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Corvette C8 Z06 1st official tease


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At full revs...I LOVE IT!

Sounds like a Ferrari. Yes it does.

At idle, sounds like shyte, in my honest opinion.  @14 seconds or so, one could hear the idling. At least this is what I think it is (the idling).  Even if its not idling, I dont like that sound this engine makes right there. 

But I am stoked to see that the Z06 is almost here.  I dont care all that much for performance number stats anymore. Its been a long time that I have been this way, but for this car, I am wildly curious to see what this machine will do against its most heated rivals and cars above its price range!  

 

Edited by oldshurst442
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Seems like they are going for Ferrari V8, DOHC, flat plane crank, high rev screamer.  Probably will suck gas and require a lot of maintenance.  Sort of doing everything opposite of what the Corvette usually stands for.  Will be interesting to see how it is received, because usually Corvette enthusiasts don't care for the European style sports car, but they are turning the Corvette into a European style car in order to compete with European sports cars.

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12 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Sort of doing everything opposite of what the Corvette usually stands for.

The Corvette has never stood for 'high MPG and low maintenance'.

Personally I've never cared for the Euro exotics I've been around; I remember a 355 Spyder one customer had where I was working, and it sounded like garbage.

It will be interesting to see the reactions / consumer acceptance. Corvette has stayed more true to it's mission than any other car that's been around 50+ years.

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27 minutes ago, balthazar said:

The Corvette has never stood for 'high MPG and low maintenance'.

Personally I've never cared for the Euro exotics I've been around; I remember a 355 Spyder one customer had where I was working, and it sounded like garbage.

It will be interesting to see the reactions / consumer acceptance. Corvette has stayed more true to it's mission than any other car that's been around 50+ years.

I don’t know if it has stayed that true, besides the front engine to mid-engine switch, the Corvette is getting expensive, at least with all the higher trims.  And it used to be that most Cadillacs were more expensive than a Corvette, the Corvette is more expensive than 5 of 6 Cadillacs which doesn’t really make sense for a Chevy.

The Corvette is still a lot of performance per dollar, but with them costing $70-80k and young people not buying sports cars the Corvette has also become an old man’s car.  I actually think they would be well served to put a turbo 4 with a mild hybrid in the C8, they could get the price in the low $50s probably get 23/33 mpg out of it do attract new buyers.

Going up market to take on the Europeans pretty much ruined Cadillac, trying to push Camaro to higher prices and making it a track car is going to kill it off because people don’t fit in it, can’t see out of it, and it is too expensive for millennials or Gen Z to buy.  
 

I know GM wants to take the Corvette up to the high dollar range because they see European sports cars selling for $200-300k and making big profits off them, but that isn’t what the Corvette is.  So are they going to attract new buyers and keep their core or price people out while the Euro snobs ignore it anyway?

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Many Corvette purists have now accepted the fact that the Corvette is a mid-engine sports car.

To the very few that have not accepted this configuration and are not nor will they be new C8 owners in the future, the C8 has more than gained a new clientele to offset the loss. 

The Corvette going with a DOHC V8 has nothing to do with going Eurocentric. Besides, a DOHC V8 was introduced to the Corvette 32-33 years ago in 1989.  

Flat plane crank?  

puhlease...

The biggest switch was already made when the Corvette went mid-engine 2 years ago.  There is a waiting list for the C8 the last two model years because GM cant produce them...for various shytty reasons. (Covid and chip shortage and a strike).  The C8 would have sold 80 000 -100 000 units the last two years had it not been for those shytty reasons limiting the production and sales run for 2020 and 2021.  Flat plane crank just excites the Corvette's NEW fanbase EVEN MORE...   The fact that this new Corvette being labeled as Z06 just hypes it up even more.  Because the last 3 generations of Z06 (C5, C6, C7) have been performance monsters and because the base C8 is impressive, the Corvette C8 is lustworthy again for many many many people across the globe. 

The C8 has got not only the old gen folk excited, bit most importantly,  the C8 has excited a very young population. Something that the Corvette hasnt really seen since the very early years of the C3.  And like I| said before, the Z06 is eagerly awaited by many.

The next biggest change is when the Corvette becomes electric and all wheel drive.   Having a flat plane crank V8 is no big deal. Furthermore, the NEW Corvette fanbase knows that an electric powertrain is coming along with AWD and to them, that cant come fast enough.  Just a hunch that I got is why I say this. And I judge my opinion based on the sales figures and the updates GM gives for the ordering of a C8 and the Z06...

Oh...the very first Corvette was Eurocentric to begin with.  It was created to emulate little British roadsters.  The C2 Corvette, although very American in its design, was also engineered to take on European sports cars on the race track.  And it was then that Duntov wanted a sports car with a mid-engine configuration. Almost a decade BEFORE the Miura. The first production street sports car from Lamborghini...  In other words, Duntov wanted the C2 to be mid-engined.  And when that idea didnt pan out, he was pushing for that to happen for the C3.   

The C4 was the 1st Vette to be Europeanized in execution...  Sure it had the classic Vette and American styling, but it was Europeanized in the process...  Hence a so called Euro philosophy of dual overhead cams and 4 valves/cylinder V8 5 years after introduction...

The base Corvette was always in a Cadillac pricing range...  The top tier Corvettes were PRICIER than many Cadillac models...  throughout the Corvettes existence since 1953. 

Edited by oldshurst442
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PS:

Vettes always sucked gas.  Carbureted big blocks were notoriously bad for that.

But CAFE in the 1970s changed the way Chevrolet looked at the Corvette.  The recent supercharged V8s in Corvettes do have a gas guzzler tax on them...  

But... in the last 50 years, Corvette engine technology has made the Chevrolet small block into something of a miracle regarding gasoline consumption. Hence why SMK, painfully for him acknowledges the magnificent feat of high horsepower and torque and relative low mpg.

What makes you (SMK) think that the new DOHC V8 from GM wont accomplish the same feat?

Chevrolet/GM engineers are smart. They make miraculous things happen... Maybe you dont see it, because you are a blind fanboy of another company, but clear your head properly and actually see what GM does. Maybe you could be wowed just a tad...  

 

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10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Probably will suck gas and require a lot of maintenance.

Probably huh? And this assumption is based off of what exactly?

 

Maybe you’re basing that off of the Mercedes AMG-GT and their flat plane V8? 

Edited by surreal1272
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6 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

This should have been written as:

The C8 Corvette would have sold 80 000-100 000 units EACH of the last two years. 

No way would they hit that kind of volume, the Corvette isn’t even sold in China, the worlds biggest car market and they barely sell any in Europe.   Even years ago with the C5 and C6 30,000 sales was a good year in the USA and people don’t buy sports cars now.   C8 is on pace for 29k sales in the US this year, chip shortage isn’t costing them half their sales.  And last year they sold 21,600 Corvettes with no chip shortage.

Ford once sold over 500k Mustangs in a year, this year they probably won’t get to 50,000 and next year will be worse.  There is no volume in sports cars, which makes me think the only way manufacturers will be able to justify them is if they are over $100k.

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7 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

 

Vettes always sucked gas.  Carbureted big blocks were notoriously

Not exactly true. Over the last two decades, they have routinely gotten mid-20s on the highway. 

1 minute ago, smk4565 said:

No way would they hit that kind of volume, the Corvette isn’t even sold in China, the worlds biggest car market and they barely sell any in Europe.   Even years ago with the C5 and C6 30,000 sales was a good year in the USA and people don’t buy sports cars now.   C8 is on pace for 29k sales in the US this year, chip shortage isn’t costing them half their sales.  And last year they sold 21,600 Corvettes with no chip shortage.

Ford once sold over 500k Mustangs in a year, this year they probably won’t get to 50,000 and next year will be worse.  There is no volume in sports cars, which makes me think the only way manufacturers will be able to justify them is if they are over $100k.

So much context missing here, one doesn’t even know where to begin. 

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1 minute ago, surreal1272 said:

Probably huh? And this assumption is based off of what exactly?

Because that is how a Ferrari is.  And it shouldn’t really matter, if you spend $100k on a car you aren’t worried about gas mileage and most of these will get driven a couple thousand miles a year so maintenance isn’t really an issue either.

But Corvette fans like to bash the high revving, expensive, over complex Dohc V8s that the Europeans make, Corvette is copying that strategy and rightly so.

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7 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Vettes always sucked gas. 

I would disagree with this. They were commonly known to get 30mpg in the C5-C7's cruising on the highway, something you're not getting out of a Camaro SS or Mustang GT, let alone anything this would compete with on a track. 

47 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Maybe you’re basing that off of the Mercedes AMG-GT and their flat plane V8? 

Sorry, can't tell if sarcasm or not because the AMG GT does not have a flat plane V8. 

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8 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

PS:

Vettes always sucked gas.  Carbureted big blocks were notoriously bad for that.

 

Answers to my quote above:

1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

Not exactly true. Over the last two decades, they have routinely gotten mid-20s on the highway. 

 

 

27 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I would disagree with this. They were commonly known to get 30mpg in the C5-C7's cruising on the highway, something you're not getting out of a Camaro SS or Mustang GT, let alone anything this would compete with on a track. 

 

But the bolded parts are where the disconnect is.

And then the rest of the post

8 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

PS:

Vettes always sucked gas.  Carbureted big blocks were notoriously bad for that.

But CAFE in the 1970s changed the way Chevrolet looked at the Corvette.  The recent supercharged V8s in Corvettes do have a gas guzzler tax on them...  

But... in the last 50 years, Corvette engine technology has made the Chevrolet small block into something of a miracle regarding gasoline consumption. Hence why SMK, painfully for him acknowledges the magnificent feat of high horsepower and torque and relative low mpg.

What makes you (SMK) think that the new DOHC V8 from GM wont accomplish the same feat?

Chevrolet/GM engineers are smart. They make miraculous things happen... Maybe you dont see it, because you are a blind fanboy of another company, but clear your head properly and actually see what GM does. Maybe you could be wowed just a tad...  

 

 

Yes, the Vette's mission after CAFE regs but from the C4 on was to be a high horsepower and low mpg sportscar, but it wasnt always the case.  Why I didnt include the later C3s is because the V8s in those were low compression, catalytic converter band-aid solutions to meet the then new CAFE regs. From the C4 on with cross-fire injection and then port fuel injection and new computer sensors and software did the Vette become a techno masterpiece to be a low mpg, high horsepower sportscar. 

But we are all saying the same thing, more or less... 

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1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

No way would they hit that kind of volume, the Corvette isn’t even sold in China, the worlds biggest car market and they barely sell any in Europe.

Yes...and imagine if they did manage to sell in those markets had it NOT been for Covid and chip shortages.

You do know that the C8 is gonna be sold in those markets, right?  

There is a WAITING list for C8s JUST in North America and Chevrolet cant make them...   The year ended in 2020 and the orders they had for a 2020 model just got transferred to model year 2021.   And the 2021 list just got bigger and bigger after that.

But of course you say no way...

Let me give you these little nuggets and you could read them and come to a more thoughtful  conclusion:

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2021/01/chevrolet-corvette-sales-numbers-figures-results-fourth-quarter-q4-2020/

https://carbuzz.com/news/chevy-sold-more-c8-corvettes-than-all-rival-sports-cars-combined

https://carbuzz.com/news/not-all-2020-chevy-corvette-sales-were-from-america

And for 2021:  The sales have doubled month per month...

https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/chevrolet-corvette-sales-figures/

 

Imagine that...

A car that took the WORLD by storm but was not able to be produced to meet demand...and because other sprts car makers had to deal with the same shytty problems  Chevrolet faced with Covid and chip shortages, the C8 managed to outsell every other sports car and take more than a 50% market share...

 

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Yes...and imagine if they did manage to sell in those markets had it NOT been for Covid and chip shortages.

You do know that the C8 is gonna be sold in those markets, right?  

There is a WAITING list for C8s JUST in North America and Chevrolet cant make them...   The year ended in 2020 and the orders they had for a 2020 model just got transferred to model year 2021.   And the 2021 list just got bigger and bigger after that.

But of course you say no way...

Let me give you these little nuggets and you could read them and come to a more thoughtful  conclusion:

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2021/01/chevrolet-corvette-sales-numbers-figures-results-fourth-quarter-q4-2020/

https://carbuzz.com/news/chevy-sold-more-c8-corvettes-than-all-rival-sports-cars-combined

https://carbuzz.com/news/not-all-2020-chevy-corvette-sales-were-from-america

And for 2021:  The sales have doubled month per month...

https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/chevrolet-corvette-sales-figures/

 

Imagine that...

A car that took the WORLD by storm but was not able to be produced to meet demand...and because other sprts car makers had to deal with the same shytty problems  Chevrolet faced with Covid and chip shortages, the C8 managed to outsell every other sports car and take more than a 50% market share...

 

 

 

 

I hate to agree with him but SMK is right. The Vette has never sold more than mid-30K a year so 80-100k is never going to happen unless they sell them everywhere and not just here and a few select countries. 

32 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Answers to my quote above:

But you are still wrong in saying "always". It would be more accurate to say that they used to suck gas. Thats all I'm saying.

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Because that is how a Ferrari is.  And it shouldn’t really matter, if you spend $100k on a car you aren’t worried about gas mileage and most of these will get driven a couple thousand miles a year so maintenance isn’t really an issue either.

But Corvette fans like to bash the high revving, expensive, over complex Dohc V8s that the Europeans make, Corvette is copying that strategy and rightly so.

So a POS Ferrari is your case study on that engine but not the AMG-GT that ALSO USES IT?

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1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

I would disagree with this. They were commonly known to get 30mpg in the C5-C7's cruising on the highway, something you're not getting out of a Camaro SS or Mustang GT, let alone anything this would compete with on a track. 

Sorry, can't tell if sarcasm or not because the AMG GT does not have a flat plane V8. 

You sure about that?

https://www.whichcar.com.au/features/history-of-turbo/amg-new-flat-plane-v8-explained

 

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/a33298784/mercedes-amg-gt-black-series-flat-plane-crank-twin-turbo-v-8/

 

In other words, Benz is copying Ferrari as well but its only a issue for SMK because the Vette is copying them (skip the part where Ford has already used the motor in the Mustang)

4 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

AMG GT does not use a flat plane crank V8. They use the standard cross plane DOHC twin turbo V8.

Again,

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/a33298784/mercedes-amg-gt-black-series-flat-plane-crank-twin-turbo-v-8/

 

95116041_ScreenShot2021-07-20at10_24_27AM.thumb.png.62a0a3ff4599169a08aa5db21d078a2a.png

1983166853_ScreenShot2021-07-20at10_25_45AM.thumb.png.a613110256be1df3357e09890c7e7f1a.png

Edited by surreal1272
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1 minute ago, surreal1272 said:

I hate to agree with him but SMK is right. The Vette has never sold more than mid-30K a year so 80-100k is never going to happen unless they sell them everywhere and not just here and a few select countries. 

That is what I said.

The C8 is a platform that will be sold world-wide.  And it would have met that had it not been for Covid shut-downs and chip shortages.  

Corvette would have had at least 50 000 units sold in the US for 2020 and 2021 if things were normal in the world...add another 30 000 units EASILY for the rest of the world....    

 

In 2018, the Mustang in the US lost to the Challenger in sales, yet it sold tremendously all over the world.

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/feu/en/news/2018/04/17/ford-mustang-is-worlds-best-selling-sports-coupe-for-third-strai.html

Mustang sold 125 000 units that year world wide.

Im applying that trend to the C8.  And, to me at least, my view it doesnt seem to be that far off from what reality is when it comes to the C8 and how IT is lusted after world wide and how many peoples want it to be in their drive-ways. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

You sure about that?

https://www.whichcar.com.au/features/history-of-turbo/amg-new-flat-plane-v8-explained

 

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/a33298784/mercedes-amg-gt-black-series-flat-plane-crank-twin-turbo-v-8/

 

In other words, Benz is copying Ferrari as well but its only a issue for SMK because the Vette is copying them (skip the part where Ford has already used the motor in the Mustang)

Again,

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/a33298784/mercedes-amg-gt-black-series-flat-plane-crank-twin-turbo-v-8/

Holy sh!t, thanks! And those articles are over a year old. How did I miss this?!? I had no idea they completely changed the engine for the Black Series AMG GT. It seems like an odd and very expensive move but pretty sweet for the consumer. 

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1 minute ago, oldshurst442 said:

That is what I said.

The C8 is a platform that will be sold world-wide.  And it would have met that had it not been for Covid shut-downs and chip shortages.  

Corvette would have had at least 50 000 units sold in the US for 2020 and 2021 if things were normal in the world...add another 30 000 units EASILY for the rest of the world....    

 

In 2018, the Mustang in the US lost to the Challenger in sales, yet it sold tremendously all over the world.

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/feu/en/news/2018/04/17/ford-mustang-is-worlds-best-selling-sports-coupe-for-third-strai.html

Mustang sold 125 000 units that year world wide.

Im applying that trend to the C8.  And, to me at least, my view it doesnt seem to be that far off from what reality is when it comes to the C8 and how IT is lusted after world wide and how many peoples want it to be in their drive-ways. 

 

 

I get what your saying and they should see an increase once everything is back to normal with part shortages and such but I do not see it ever hitting 80-100K. Color me surprised if it does, even as good as it is.

1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

Holy sh!t, thanks! And those articles are over a year old. How did I miss this?!? I had no idea they completely changed the engine for the Black Series AMG GT. It seems like an odd and very expensive move but pretty sweet for the consumer. 

I agree but I don't think it's too risky, price wise, given the fact that the GT is already expensive as hell lol.

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2 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

I agree but I don't think it's too risky, price wise, given the fact that the GT is already expensive as hell lol.

They're probably also going for a more linear torque curve instead of a brutal punch at any RPM. That's one place the flat planes shine as one can get into the throttle sooner without spinning the rear tires. It should be one hell of a track car, that's for sure. I can't wait to hear one. 

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About the Corvette copying Ferrari.  Nonsense. 

The Corvette has, since the C2, be a Ferrari and Porsche (mainly 911) competitor and rival on the streets and on the race track.  (And Jaguar XKEs too)  Since late model C1s actually... 

Funny, when Ferrari went to 6.5 liters (396 cubic inches) for its V12, SMK didnt say Ferrari is copying big block American and Chevrolet cubic inches...

But they did...  because Americana states that there is no replacement for displacement and at 396 cubic inches...oh boy...give me that Ferrari and Ill drag race it on Woodward Avenue! 

 

 

10 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

I get what your saying and they should see an increase once everything is back to normal with part shortages and such but I do not see it ever hitting 80-100K. Color me surprised if it does, even as good as it is.

Fair enough! 

 

Edited by oldshurst442
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1 hour ago, balthazar said:

I agree with the statement that the Vette would not hit 80K/yr, but more importantly; why would anyone WANT it to?? It’s a low volume machine that already sells (traditionally) in higher numbers than I personally think it should. 25K (U.S.) is a good target.

Agreed. It should also be noted that I'm not sure that Bowling Green can handle those kind of numbers anyway so unless they add to that plant or something of that nature, those numbers are never going to happen.

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3 hours ago, ccap41 said:

I would disagree with this. They were commonly known to get 30mpg in the C5-C7's cruising on the highway, something you're not getting out of a Camaro SS or Mustang GT, let alone anything this would compete with on a track. 

Sorry, can't tell if sarcasm or not because the AMG GT does not have a flat plane V8. 

The Black Series has flat plane crank, the other AMG V8’s do not.

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1 hour ago, balthazar said:

I agree with the statement that the Vette would not hit 80K/yr, but more importantly; why would anyone WANT it to?? It’s a low volume machine that already sells (traditionally) in higher numbers than I personally think it should. 25K (U.S.) is a good target.

Who would want the Corvette to hit 80K/yr?

GM is who...

Will Corvettes hit 80K/yr consistently?

Probably not.

But for the first 2 years, the C8 could have EASILY attained these numbers if there were no global hiccups and had Chevrolet been able to get their global sales stores up and running. The C8 is gonna be sold to many countries world wide after all. 

The Corvette IS a mass produced machine after all. The Corvette is NOT a boutique sports car. The Corvette, at Bowling Green did in fact hit sales figures of 40 000 for the C3 in 1981 (first year at Bowling Green) and 51 000 for the C4's first year and 39 000 for the C4's 2nd year.

I said 50 000 units for the US market for 2020 and 2021 because the C4 hit those numbers and the C4 was a major departure of what it had become with the later years of the C3 and was a welcoming and necessary change. I see a parallel with the FE-RWD to the ME C8.  The C7 to the C8. 

The C8 might have lost some Vette purists, but it did gain healthy NEW clientele. Some of that clientele would have bought Porsche Boxters and Caymens but indeed bought C8s. A healthy uptick in NEW clients I might say. And the Vette did manage to keep most if its fans... 

For 2021, the C8 with all the RAVE reviews WORLD WIDE from auto mag rags and internet influencers, that Corvette mystique just not only stayed alive, but actually became even MORE legendary, and now the C8 is not only taking away Porsche clientele from their Cayman and Boxter sales, but now the C8 is also eating up 911 sales...  As proof, the C8 is NOT selling its base trims, but trim levels of  70 000 dollars and more. 

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/2020-chevrolet-corvette-sales-show-money-is-not-a-problem-for-us-buyers-152376.html

 

Quote

 Apparently, the $71,945 that Chevrolet asks for a 3LT C8 Corvette didn't seem too steep for 46.4 percent of those who bought a new 2020 Stingray. The GM brand sold 7,439 coupes and 2,017 convertibles in the highest possible trim, with the 2LT package sitting not that far behind with 39.1 percent of total sales.

The base version, the 1LT, the one everyone praised Chevrolet for and gave the C8 Corvette the title of "affordable sports car", was only chosen by 14.5 percent of the model's buyers. That means a total of 2,946 units, out of which just 283 were convertibles (which do cost a minimum of $67,495, $200 more than the 2LT coupe).

All in all, this shows that making a sports car affordable doesn't necessarily mean you'll manage to convince people with lower financial resources to buy it. Since getting a two-door coupe will always be driven by indulgence rather than necessity, it will likely remain the privilege of wealthier social segments. The kind who have no problem to dig deeper for $12,000 more if that gets them more leather and, more importantly, added prestige.

 
As proof, the C8 managed to gain a dominant market share for ALL sports car sold in the world.  I will stop saying 50% market share as I dont have proof of that. The proof that I posted was for the 1st quarter of 2021...   But I do have this:
 
 
Quote

 

Even though Porsche had a strong sales year globally, only 2,438 examples of the 911 were sold in Q4 2020 in the US, which is just over a quarter of the number of Corvettes that found homes in the same period. For the year, 8,840 911s were sold in the US in 2020 as opposed to 21,626 units of the Corvette.

The cheaper 718 lineup - comprising the Boxster and Cayman - moved 1,491 units between October and December last year. Of course, the Corvette's far more attractive price surely has a lot to do with these figures. The base Corvette C8 starts at $1,000 less than the entry-level Cayman, yet the C8 delivers 490 horsepower from its mighty V8 and the cheapest Cayman can only manage 300 hp from its turbocharged four-cylinder powerplant. Selling below 200 units each in Q4 were the likes of the Audi R8, discontinued BMW i8, and Acura NSX.

 

 

Therefore...

While yes, 25 000 units per year sold for the Corvette is more than adequate, as that is what it averages out to more or less, ever since its introduction in 1953, there have been times when a new generation hit the streets and got the whole world buzzing and when people have wanted to buy the Corvette, they REALLY bought the Corvette and the Corvette sold in really really good numbers. And the C8 is exactly that...

It would have hit 50 000 units EASILY. Add another modest 30 000 units and we get the 80K/yr figure I keep on defending. And yes...many Eurosnobs would have bought the C8 Vette as it hits THEIR soft spots.

  • Mid engine
  • Fantastic American V8 burble (because Europeans DO actually love an American V8
  • Fantastic performance figures
  • Fantastic handling characteristics that are no longer "American" in nature but European...
  • That Corvette mystique is still intact and augmented by 10
  • Really really upgraded interior that Eurosnobs seem to bitch about is no longer...
  • The suspense that even FASTER C8s are in the works. The type that win at Lemans...  As in Z06...

Even German people bit their lips and acknowledged the C8.  Even in Germany, the C8 would have had some sales...

Then there is the Middle East. All these oil baron Sheiks. They love the Corvette anyway. This new one blew them away.

 

 

 

 
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3 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Yes...and imagine if they did manage to sell in those markets had it NOT been for Covid and chip shortages.

You do know that the C8 is gonna be sold in those markets, right?  

There is a WAITING list for C8s JUST in North America and Chevrolet cant make them...   The year ended in 2020 and the orders they had for a 2020 model just got transferred to model year 2021.   And the 2021 list just got bigger and bigger after that.

But of course you say no way...

Let me give you these little nuggets and you could read them and come to a more thoughtful  conclusion:

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2021/01/chevrolet-corvette-sales-numbers-figures-results-fourth-quarter-q4-2020/

https://carbuzz.com/news/chevy-sold-more-c8-corvettes-than-all-rival-sports-cars-combined

https://carbuzz.com/news/not-all-2020-chevy-corvette-sales-were-from-america

And for 2021:  The sales have doubled month per month...

https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/chevrolet-corvette-sales-figures/

 

Imagine that...

A car that took the WORLD by storm but was not able to be produced to meet demand...and because other sprts car makers had to deal with the same shytty problems  Chevrolet faced with Covid and chip shortages, the C8 managed to outsell every other sports car and take more than a 50% market share...

 

 

 

 

25% import tax in China plus 40% displacement tax on engines over 4.0 liter.  Plus GM has to cover costs of getting it certified for China or whatever needs done, the $70k Corvette here is probably $125k or more in China, if they get it there.  
 

And in Germany the C8 is supposed to cost 99,000 euros or $110k and will 30 hp due to stricter emissions.  The value equation starts to reduce a bit in export markets.

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OK though...

80K/yr at Bowling Green might not be able to handle that kind of production hike. I will support that statement.

But the C8 hitting 80k-100k/yr (for the first 2 years) is(was) not that far fetched... 

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3 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

OK though...

80K/yr at Bowling Green might not be able to handle that kind of production hike. I will support that statement.

But the C8 hitting 80k-100k/yr is(was) not that far fetched... 

I can see Corvette hitting 80 to 100K auto's a year as they bring on an EV version which would sell well in China and the world allowing numbers to go up. I honestly see little growth for China as long as ICE is in the auto.

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1 minute ago, smk4565 said:

25% import tax in China plus 40% displacement tax on engines over 4.0 liter.  Plus GM has to cover costs of getting it certified for China or whatever needs done, the $70k Corvette here is probably $125k or more in China, if they get it there.  
 

And in Germany the C8 is supposed to cost 99,000 euros or $110k and will 30 hp due to stricter emissions.  The value equation starts to reduce a bit in export markets.

So?

The Vette in THOSE areas would be sold to affluent folk anyway...

You act as if in China, extremely rich folk dont buy cars with big displacement engines...

You act as if the Ferrari 458 didnt sell in China because there is a 40% displacement tax. The 458 is 4.4 liters. And costs 3 times as much as the Vette even in China...

And in Germany...

The LORE of the Vette is more than enough to sway them to buy it...

Maybe you should stop being such a self hating American... 

 

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3 hours ago, ccap41 said:

They're probably also going for a more linear torque curve instead of a brutal punch at any RPM. That's one place the flat planes shine as one can get into the throttle sooner without spinning the rear tires. It should be one hell of a track car, that's for sure. I can't wait to hear one. 

It is a hell of a track car, it is the Nurburgring record holder.

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Only way Corvette gets to 80-100k sales a year is if they make it an SUV, which is a terrible idea.

I would not be surprised if by 2030 the Mustang Mach-E is outselling the Mustang coupe by so much that they kill the coupe.  The Mach-E already outsells the coupe, with the direction coupe sales are going, it would be quite easy for Ford to kill the coupe/convertible and just call that SUV the Mustang and say it is what the market wants.

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46 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

25% import tax in China plus 40% displacement tax on engines over 4.0 liter.  Plus GM has to cover costs of getting it certified for China or whatever needs done, the $70k Corvette here is probably $125k or more in China, if they get it there.  
 

And in Germany the C8 is supposed to cost 99,000 euros or $110k and will 30 hp due to stricter emissions.  The value equation starts to reduce a bit in export markets.

And? There is big money in China and the rich folks there will swoop up any new Vette in droves regardless of the import tax. Other brands have succeeded like there and so can GM. They know the China market quite well, actually.

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3 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

@smk4565

You are miffed that the C8 is the sales king outselling your brand's sports cars.

And when the Z06 meets (and very possibly beats) the M-B GT's 'Ring times, you will only be saltier...

snickers - Imgflip 

 

Corvette is half the cost of an AMG GT, it should sell better in USA, although I bet the world wide numbers are close.

Still waiting on a Corvette to beat AMG GT or the 911 GT2 RS or Huracan Evo on a track.  And guess what, without all wheel drive it won’t, does this Z06 have AWD?

3 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

And? There is big money in China and the rich folks there will swoop up any new Vette in droves regardless of the import tax. Other brands have succeeded like there and so can GM. They know the China market quite well, actually.

Sure there is money, but they have never sold a Corvette in China, so it has no following, Chevy is an economy car brand there, and the price advantage the Corvette has in the USA over some Europeans won’t be as great there.  So I don’t except it to be a big seller.

I think it would make sense to do a 4 cylinder hybrid Corvette for here and China, they could use the CT4-V powertrain with a 48 volt hybrid and have a car that starts at $50k here and skirts some displacement tax there.

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2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Sure there is money, but they have never sold a Corvette in China, so it has no following

Just stop it. Just about every import there is new by word market standards and even the Chinese know about the Vette and those with the dough won't give two $h!s about Chevrolet being an "economy" brand. Again, GM knows the China market pretty well and much better than you do.

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I think it would make sense to do a 4 cylinder hybrid Corvette for here and China

No.

 

And thanks for confirming why you are not in marketing. 

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2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Corvette is half the cost of an AMG GT, it should sell better in USA

Price is NOT a criteria of why the Corvette should or shoudnt sell better than an AMG GT or any other sports car in this price range.

There are many criteria as to why cars like these sell over one another. 

Corvette has a mystique to it that an AMG GT does not have. 1953 versus 2014. The AMG GT is a new entry that is 7 years old.    The Corvette being and having 68 years of legendary history behind it and the C8 being mid-engine for the first time in its history is reason enough for a person to forego an AMG GT and buy a C8 Corvette as reason #1

Reason #2 is that a C8 Corvette BASE has all the performance requisites that ANYBODY could EVER need on the track and on the street.

Reason #3 is the Z06 which WILL be available for sale in the very near future. Late 2022 or early 2023 some say.  Maybe earlier than that. Chevy is very very mum on that...   Maybe the Hybrid E-Ray will come out sooner...

The Z06 will meet and possibly beat the Black Series AMG GT performance specs all for half the price. And THAT is reason#3 why someone may buy the Vette over ANY trim AMG GT...

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Still waiting on a Corvette to beat AMG GT or the 911 GT2 RS or Huracan Evo on a track

Its coming...

Promise me you wont find any excuse to belittle the Vette when it does beat your cars that you just mentioned. Promise me you wont try to dismiss it. 

It seems you forget that Vettes set the record when a new model comes along and the Euros scramble to beat it. 

It seems that YOU ignore that Porsche and Lambo are BOUTIQUE sports cars and their makers are PRIMARILY producing all these variants BECAUSE that is what they do.

The Vette is just the Vette.  It has only now gained a few trims here and there to try and specialize to compete more closely with the MANY Porsche 911 variants that Porsche engineers. 

The C4 was just the C4, then a ZR1 came along. But the C4 ZR1 was not a specialized beast. Then it left but the LT engine family did the rest of the heavy lifting with the LT5 variant...

The C5 was just the C5 but a track focused Z06 came along. But the C5 Z06 was still not a specialized track car like a 1995 Porsche 911 GT2 was...

The C6 had the base. And then the Z06. Then by a miracle, GM green lit the ZR1.  And the ZR1 was a failure in the market place because its mission was not all that clear.  

The C7 came along and Chevy from the get go had base, Z06 and ZR1.   The C7 Z06 was a convoluted marketing mess because Chevy did not have a clear and concise mission for it. They supercharged the engine when it was supposed to be a track car.  

 However, in the market place, all three C7s made the Vette fans want MORE...

The C8 looks to have a more structured direction with the base Stingray, E-Ray, Z06, ZR1 and Zora. 

But if one looks at a Porsche 911 today, there is an endless amount of specialized 911s one could buy from Porsche...   The Vette has to be hot rodded with the after market. Not in-house like the 911 is from Porsche...

At least the hot rodding community is backed by Chevrolet Performance...

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

And guess what, without all wheel drive it won’t, does this Z06 have AWD?

No. the Z06 is not AWD.

That is gonna be offered in the later models.

But guess what?  YOU will be surprised and SHOCKED what Chevy Corvette Performance engineers are capable of...

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1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Hard no to a 4-cyl Corvette.

Why not?  The next-gen C63/SL63 are going to have a 4 cylinder hybrid with 643 hp.  I'd rather have that and get like 40-50 mpg than have the 6.2 V8 in the C8 making 495 hp and get 25 mpg.

Adding a turbo 4 Corvette doesn't take anything away, you make it the base starting at $50k, then the current Singray is the middle and the Z06 at the top.  That widens out the range and keeps the Corvette more in the Chevy price tier.  Then make a Cadillac sports car to compete with these $200k European cars.  If they try to market a Chevrolet against a Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, etc, that is dead on arrival idea.  But I know GM isn't going to do that, they are going to go all in on the Corvette, and push the price up at the high end.  

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6 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Reason #2 is that a C8 Corvette BASE has all the performance requisites that ANYBODY could EVER need on the track and on the street.

Reason #3 is the Z06 which WILL be available for sale in the very near future. Late 2022 or early 2023 some say.  Maybe earlier than that. Chevy is very very mum on that...   Maybe the Hybrid E-Ray will come out sooner...

The Z06 will meet and possibly beat the Black Series AMG GT performance specs all for half the price. And THAT is reason#3 why someone may buy the Vette over ANY trim AMG GT...

Its coming...

 

No. the Z06 is not AWD.

That is gonna be offered in the later models.

But guess what?  YOU will be surprised and SHOCKED what Chevy Corvette Performance engineers are capable of...

On Reason 2, I agree, really you can't drive a V6 Camry at 10/10ths on a street, so the Corvette is more than enough performance for the street.  Also why I think they could do the turbo 4 I mentioned, still have like a 4.2 second 0-60 time and and even lighter weight tossable car.  But I don't think they'll go below the Stingray.

2023 model they say for Z06

We'll see if the Z06 can match the Black series.  I would bet not.  They need a 48 second per lap improvement around the Nurburgring from the C8 Stingray to the Z06 to beat the Black Series, no way are they finding 48 seconds, you don't just get that with some extra power or suspension tweaks. 

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3 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

If they try to market a Chevrolet against a Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, etc, that is dead on arrival idea.  

They are not doing that...

WTF are you rambling on about?

The Vette is still the Vette doing what Vettes have been doing since 1955 when a V8 was dropped under the hood. Its mission has NOT strayed away actually SINCE 1953...

It changed its personality here and there because of what the market place was doing in the 1960s (muscle car era) and then the 1970s (gas crunch becoming more of a luxury GT car) and then again in the 1980s (back to what Duntov wanted for the car), but a slight change in focus has NOT changed what the Vette has been since 1953. And the C8 is no different.  

10 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The next-gen C63/SL63 are going to have a 4 cylinder hybrid with 643 hp

Well...

Lets be honest here, a c63 and a SL 63 have had really substantial changes during their production runs...

The C63 has the 190 as a predecessor. An ECONOBOX shytebox.

The SL has had SIGNIFICANT market changes.  

It started out as the SUPERCAR GULLWING mega car to being a lowly econobox convertible  in its 2nd generation...

So...

NOT the same thing is it?

Irony with YOUR opinion is that the Corvette came out EXACTLY at the same time as the Gullwing. 2nd gens of BOTH were ALSO at the EXACT same time... 

Your point of view and opinions are seriously flawed... 

 

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5 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

We'll see if the Z06 can match the Black series.  I would bet not.  They need a 48 second per lap improvement around the Nurburgring from the C8 Stingray to the Z06 to beat the Black Series, no way are they finding 48 seconds, you don't just get that with some extra power or suspension tweaks. 

Problem is that, the Z06 is simply not JUST extra power and suspension tweaks... 

Like I said...FINALLY, the Corvette is getting to be SPECIALIZED. 

You cheer too much for your brand and you rag and JEER too much on the Corvette.

Rag on GM all you want. THAT dont bother me. Do NOT rag on the Vette. 

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8 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Problem is that, the Z06 is simply not JUST extra power and suspension tweaks... 

Like I said...FINALLY, the Corvette is getting to be SPECIALIZED. 

You cheer too much for your brand and you rag and JEER too much on the Corvette.

Rag on GM all you want. THAT dont bother me. Do NOT rag on the Vette. 

I am not ragging on the Corvette, I am just stating reality.  To take 48 seconds out of a Nurburgring lap is a lot of time, almost 1 minute of a 7 minute lap.

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15 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I am not ragging on the Corvette, I am just stating reality.  To take 48 seconds out of a Nurburgring lap is a lot of time, almost 1 minute of a 7 minute lap.

Yeah...you are.

Somehow...the others eventually found that 48 seconds to be that quick...

The C7 is NOT a C8. 

The C8 is a NEW machine. The C8 hasnt got track focused suspension. It has GT suspension aided by GM's magnetic ride.  The Z51 package on the BASE Stingray just has slightly beefier suspension bits and adjustable camber to be a LIGHT track car.

The Z06 will probably be lighter as it will probably have some carbon fibre to replace the aluminium and fibregalss pieces that it will be replaced by for starters. 

The Z06 will have active aero so that the air will pass through it will less friction PLUS having better down force. 

Better tires for track. Those famous Michelin Pilots for starters.

And we havent even talked about the suspension....

If you think that the Z06 will have the Z51 suspension parts on it, you are either one blind fanboy that simply doesnt WANT to see and acknowledge what other OEM's engineers do with their sports cars or you are clueless to what is what...

The Z06 mules had the  Porsche GT2 RS running along side it as Corvette engineers are benchmarking it...

If you think the Z06 will be a softie  in Germany at that famous track of yours, you are sadly mistaken...

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10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Why not?  The next-gen C63/SL63 are going to have a 4 cylinder hybrid with 643 hp.  I'd rather have that and get like 40-50 mpg than have the 6.2 V8 in the C8 making 495 hp and get 25 mpg.

Adding a turbo 4 Corvette doesn't take anything away, you make it the base starting at $50k, then the current Singray is the middle and the Z06 at the top.  That widens out the range and keeps the Corvette more in the Chevy price tier.  Then make a Cadillac sports car to compete with these $200k European cars.  If they try to market a Chevrolet against a Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, etc, that is dead on arrival idea.  But I know GM isn't going to do that, they are going to go all in on the Corvette, and push the price up at the high end.  

They’ve been marketing against those cars for decades now. Not sure what planet you’ve been living on. You need to stop this obsession of yours where you constantly $h! on cars like the Vette just because it’s still a Chevrolet. That hasn’t mattered since day one the car came out and it matters even less now except to silly little German fanboys who have to find any excuse to tear down a domestic. Sorry, but your game is just old at this point. 

9 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Also why I think they could do the turbo 4 I mentioned, still have like a 4.2 second 0-60 time and and even lighter weight tossable car.

They won’t go that route because it’s dumb. Not sure what you’re not getting here. 

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15 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Still waiting on a Corvette to beat AMG GT or the 911 GT2 RS or Huracan Evo on a track.  And guess what, without all wheel drive it won’t, does this Z06 have AWD?

As I have said before, I am not into numbers. I am happy that you are however.

I did take a looksie about the Nurburgring's latest lap times and I was curious to see what cars have these records and to my surprise, that bolded part of your sentence is wrong...

And my curiosity was picked BECAUSE you mentioned AMG GT and 911 GT2 RS...

I read quickly a couple of days ago, or even last week or two, that the latest Porsche 911 GT2 RS reclaimed the fastest lap time over at the 'Ring,  but I kinda knew something about it that you mislead us to believe about lap times at the 'Ring and AWD...

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/anything-goes/nurburgring-lap-records-definitive-rundown

Can you guess what the misdirection is?

Well...

Let's start with the list:

1 - Porsche 911 GT2 RS - 6:43:30

2 - Mercedes-AMG GT Black Series - 6:43:62

3 - Lamborghini Aventador SVJ - 6:44:97

4 – Porsche 911 GT2 RS – 6:47:25

5 – Radical SR8LM – 6:48:28

6 – Lamborghini Huracán Performante - 6:52:01

 

And then the list of cars just repeat themselves with another Radical and Porsche 911 GT2 RS with a Lamborghini Aventador SV with a Porsche 918 Spyder in between..

 

The top 6 cars I listed, only the Lamborghinis have AWD...

I wasnt sure the AMG GT had AWD, I didnt think so, but I KNEW the Porsche GT2 RS wasnt AWD...and I confirmed it!!!   AWD is NOT a criteria for fast Nurburgring lap times!!!

Further more, like I have said, Porsche has SPECIALIZED the 911...

A 911 GT2 RS is NOTHING like a Porsche 911 Carrera which in itself has many variants,  which is NOTHING like a Porsche 911 Turbo which is NOTHING like a Porsche 911 GT3 and so forth...

The Z06 WILL be the VERY first time that a STREET Z06 (because the very first Z06 was a RACE car back in '63) will be RADICALLY different from the base Vette and SPECIALIZED to BE a REAL hard ass track car. 

(There is a rumoured Z07 package to return for the Z06 trim that debuted with the C7...)

Furthermore, even when this happens, Corvette is a Chevrolet, not a BOUTIQUE maker and so the Corvette Z06 wont be micro perfected year after year like how Porsche does to its many many variants of the 911. 

The Corvette is NOT its own brand for that to happen.  

Porsche's 911 is an INCREDIBLE machine. Porsche has perfected this machine and CONTINUES to MICRO ADJUST it year after year. They have managed to create plenty of variants that differ GREATLY from one another.  THIS is what makes a 911 so phoquing great. 

The Corvette is nothing like that. But THAT is not what Corvette is anyway.

In terms of engineering, the Corvette is taking a mass production concept, engineering it to be world class and state of the art, to a price point because the Corvette is to be priced at a level where it could be mostly attainable by high middle class people, and achieving high levels of performance that competes (meets or even beats) with the very best of the high dollar performance supercars of the world.

The Corvette will be the fastest in most categories when a new model comes out with the subsequent various trims and the like, but will take a back seat shortly thereafter when Ferrari comes out with yet another million dollar hypercar but only but a handfull will be produced and will actually be a garage queen. And when Porsche loses to the latest Corvette, but will MICRO perfect a certain 911 variant for the next 5 years that will eventually dominate.  And THAT is what YOU see.

But you JUDGE NEGATIVELY BECAUSE  the Corvette hasnt been perfected to those extremes. A faster variant will be released, but in terms of the Corvette's faster variant, its not SPECIALIZED as how the 911 is.   However, when a new generation Corvette hits the streets 7-8 even 12 years later, the Corvette blows everything away again and the cycle repeats itself...

But THIS is where the Corvette mystique kicks in:

1. That kind of level of performance to a price point that COMPETES with sports cars costing 2-3-4 times as much

2. That kind of high level of engineering to when even a chassis that is 8 years old before a new chassis comes out and the Corvette STILL competes performance wise with the LATEST offerings of cars costing 2-3-4 times as much...

3. The AFTERMARKET is soooooo great for the Corvette that an enthusiast could buy himself a CHEAP, USED 15 year old Corvette, dump money in it, not a whole lot of money either, and BLOW AWAY the NEWEST AND GREATEST of the SUPERCARS...   All backed by CHEVROLET performance...

4.  The FACT that Corvettes, are BUILT to last to BE driven hard and THAT is why soooooo many OLDER Corvettes are STILL on our roads being thrashed and raced...

5. which guarantees new Corvettes to be built and sold because there is ALWAYS a rabid fanbase wanting to buy these things new, generation after generation

6.  the fact that these are NOT boutique sports cars, yet offer an incredible amount of customization, now with the C8 at the factory level, BUT ESCPECIALLY at the aftermarket level, but they dont break the bank, and there are literally THOUSANDS of them available for you and I to buy them.  

3 different philosophies between Ferraris sports car making,  Porsche 911 and the Corvette.

Not one is more superior to the other.  Just different approaches for each to have their  own allure and mystique. 

So dont rag on the Corvette. Dont find little things to denounce it.

Dont be surprised if the C8 Z06 in 2023 will claim the fastest Nurburgring lap time...  NO! AWD is not a NECESSITY for it!  

The top ten fastest cars at the 'Ring and the Porsche 911 GT2RS is on it 3 times. 3 different variants of it.

Let me remind you
SPIED] C8 Corvette Z06 Prototypes Testing Alongside a Porsche GT2 RS in  California - Corvette: Sales, News & Lifestyle

C8 Corvette Z06 - NASIOC

 

Yeah!  That would be a Porsche 911 GT2 RS with a Corvette Z06 test mule beside it...

 

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9 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

As I have said before, I am not into numbers. I am happy that you are however.

I did take a looksie about the Nurburgring's latest lap times and I was curious to see what cars have these records and to my surprise, that bolded part of your sentence is wrong...

And my curiosity was picked BECAUSE you mentioned AMG GT and 911 GT2 RS...

I read quickly a couple of days ago, or even last week or two, that the latest Porsche 911 GT2 RS reclaimed the fastest lap time over at the 'Ring,  but I kinda knew something about it that you mislead us to believe about lap times at the 'Ring and AWD...

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/anything-goes/nurburgring-lap-records-definitive-rundown

Can you guess what the misdirection is?

Well...

Let's start with the list:

1 - Porsche 911 GT2 RS - 6:43:30

2 - Mercedes-AMG GT Black Series - 6:43:62

3 - Lamborghini Aventador SVJ - 6:44:97

4 – Porsche 911 GT2 RS – 6:47:25

5 – Radical SR8LM – 6:48:28

6 – Lamborghini Huracán Performante - 6:52:01

 

And then the list of cars just repeat themselves with another Radical and Porsche 911 GT2 RS with a Lamborghini Aventador SV with a Porsche 918 Spyder in between..

 

The top 6 cars I listed, only the Lamborghinis have AWD...

 

 

You don't need AWD, but it helps.  Unless your grip, traction and aero so so great that you can over come.  Also the 911 GT2 RS that has the record was done with after-market equipment that you can get through a dealer or something, it wasn't a stock GT2 RS, like how the AMG GT black that set the record is the same one they sell.

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