oldshurst442

Its official. My partnership at the restaurant is slowly winding down and coming to an end. Ill be taking over as sole owner during the course of this year, but I will probably be selling it myself this year or next. My partner had a family situation. A very terrible thing to happen to him as a husband... He is devastated about this and has tried to work it out with his wife, but he just cant. Cant trust her. But then with all that and he cant manage his business life also. I begged him to stay on because I need him at the store. I cant live without him. He completes me at the restaurant. I told him to take as much time as he wants away from the restaurant. But for him to come back... Yeah...he is my husband at the restaurant. He keeps ME in check. Just as how I keep him in check. We make a perfect couple running it. So with that bombshell, I am the sole owner of a soon to be sold hot dog joint.

Dont forget with an ecoboosted 4 cylinder engine...to prove a point that a Jaguar E Type E-Motor swap is an expensive swap that is worthless, but we are trying to convince folk that maybe an ecoboosted 4 cylinder swapped Jaguar E Type, because a Hellephant one is not WOW enough, will impress folk and will clamour it up like noboy's business... Or an LS swapped Jaguar E Type. Because swapping Jaguars with OEM crate ICE engines are somehow worth money and are NOT money pits JUST to discuss how e-motor swapped Jags are not... Because we have an unhealthy beef with electric cars... Read the entire thread...

You DO know that those free hugs actually DO come at a price, right? Especially when it comes to the Devil, nothing is free. He always tempts you with stuff that is not good for you and asks for your soul in return... But lets be honest for a sec, does Jesus actually ask for anything else in return other than to follow his word? And what are His words anyway?

^^^ That is one small insignificant factor out of many... Dont choose to ignore the other points... Dont troll and dont be obtuse... You are better than that.

@ccap41 If you really are NOT trolling, and NOT being obtuse... What Balthy is suggesting... you really think this car would be of MORE of value to somebody with an ecoboosted 4 cylinder engine under the hood??? Like I said... get real... If somebody chooses to electrify an Eleanor Mustang with a Mach E powertrain... The argument is will that car be of value to somebody else in that the original modder would recuperate his investment? Because EV powertrains are insanely high. (To which I agree!!!) BUT... Let us NOT be foolish I am saying. You really think somebody restomodding any classic car with an ICE crate motor, you actually think that vision will be compensated back? On certain classics...yes. But that also depends on the whole package... Common man! You rreally think an ecoboosted 4 cycluinder Eleanor will be of value to somebody in where the original modder will not only clain his money back, but make a profit too? Now...its a classic 1967 Mustang to which some idiot WILL pay huge money for regardles if it may be electrified or 4 cylinder ecoboosted. MAYBE... But you actually think an ecoboosted 4 cylinder 1966 Galaxie is worth a lot of money? More so than an electrified one with the Mach E powertrain? You tell me... You set me in my place and tell me modding cars are not usually money pits and losers and you tell me that a state of the art, brand new e-motor is more akin to an ecoboosted 4 cylinder as opposed to a 5.2 liter supercharged Predator. You tell me that somebody out there will prefer to drive in an ecoboosted 1969 Mecury Cougar rather than a Predator swapped or Mach E swapped one... But yeah... JUST because one phoquing metric is the same as the other...all other points Ive made are invalid GTFO!!!

common guys!!!! @balthazar @ccap41 you guys know very well that electric motors are at the very cutting edge of performance and technology. How in the hell does an ecoboosted 4 cylinder compare with e-motors in performance? sure that e-motor from Ford is the same unit that powers the Mach E and is ´mass produced’ But did you look at the performance level of that Mach E? Those e-motors are new to the market with tons of new tech in them. You absoletely think Ford will be giving them away? You are sooooo hung up on dissing EVs that both of you are missing the point and are arguing semantics. Common guys!!! Be real….

I am not using restoring costs. JUST the engine swaps... I include the UPGRADES because modern crate engines necessitate these upgrades MAINLY for safety. But also, most folk that want a classic car WANT their classic car to drive like a MODERN one... As an genuine and honest argument, you cant omit that just because you want to show me that EV swaps are expensive. So are internal combustion crate engines in the real world. We cant just bash EV swapping in the car forum world and forget the reality of it all regarding IC crate engines and classic cars... Yup. You want to discriminate AGAINST EV swaps. I get that. If you are gonna do that, then do it with an EQUIVALENT internal combustion engine, please. You could do awesome powered engine swaps with junked 12 year old Denalis that have the almost top dog LS engines in them. But we arent talking about that, are we? We could do electric motor swaps from Teslas that are junked, and we could buy those relatively cheap too. Cheaper than GM's and Ford's EV crate motors, right? But your beef is with Ford's NEW EV crate motor and how expensive THAT is... and what value it may bring to a would be buyer. Well, if THAT is the case, lets EVEN the playing field just a tad then. Hellephant engine it is. If you want, we will play with Ford instead of Mopar. Ford's 5.2liter supercharged 'Predator' V8 is 26 000 dollars... NO transmission... https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-6007-M52SC And the reason why you cant have a static car worth x and then putting a price on that with a swap, JUST a swap because regardless of what powertrain you use, electric or gasoline, you have to change everything else on the car to accommodate said swap for safety but for compatibility too... Put electric motors in a car? You need a battery. You need software. You need a kill switch. You need to possibly fabricate stuff to house these new things. You need to upgrade all other systems to accommodate this new technology. All that costs money. Money that needs to be done. But if you think that 760 HP Predator engine swaps on a lowly 289 Mustang doesnt need those same upgrades, you are being very disingenuous with me... Especially Fords when none of their engines could be swapped as easily as GM cars could. So swapping a 351 in a 289 car would need fab work never you mind a brand new Predator 5.2. I already answered you on this. Even a Mustang, a 1970 Mustang with a Predator engine has to be done properly and correctly in order for that Mustang to be worth the restoration costs. You think, that just an engine swap on a 1970 Mustang will get you your money back? You think, you bought a $9200 1970 Mustang, bought a Predator and installed it and its a #3 car You think that when you cant finish the job for whatever reason, you think that you will get $35 000 (26 000 for the engine plus the cost of the car) foir the Mustang? With a transmission from a 351 that may or may not be good for the Predator... Car may or may not be running... Common Balthy... You know and I know, that Americans whether they like the dealership experience or not, you and I know that Americans NEVER want to pay what the list price is on a car. Americans are accustomed to haggle... Raise the price to 40 000 dollars to fool the buyer to haggle to 35 000 and you and I know that nobody will contact the buyer on a 40 000 dollar #3 Mustang regardless if the car has a Predator engine in it or not.... Ive already explained to you why a Coyote is NOT the proper comparison to that EV motor. At Ford...the Coyote with a transmission is sold for $18 000 https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-9000-PMCA3A Different scenario... Cant finish the car for whatever reason. We are in it for 28 000 dollars for a running #3 Mustang with a Coyote and a transmission. Still tight but doable in breaking even... I know you want to diss on EVs, but lets be honest about it. Put a Predator in a classic Mustang, do NOT do the proper upgrades on it and the value to your Predator engined classic Mustang falls really really flat to the modern classic car owner. The question you also might want to be answered is: Are there any buyers out there that actually want and value an EV converted classic car? Well...when one is restoring a car, for personal reasons, is that person asking if there are buyers out there for a classic 1966 Fiord Galaxie XL? When Jay Leno restored that exact car because his dad owned one and he went all in with it, did he ask how much will it be worth to somebody else if he wanted to part ways with it? Or the RWD conversion job he did with his 1000HP Toronado? When he even hired GM tech advisers and engineers tom help him convert it to RWD. Problem is, Jay Leno's cars will probably command high prices BECAUSE its Jay Leno's cars. You and I do that, will somebody value our work and vision? The answer is NO! You know that! Nobody cares for a 1966 Galaxie that putting over 30 000 dollars into one regardless what powertrain, is losing money and 'desecrating' a 1966 Toronado turning it into a RWD car with a shytty LS engine rather than keeping it a 455 Olds Rocket is a big no no and a way to piss your money away... So why do you ask if an EV convert is of value to somebody in the reselling market. Its not...its a personal thing. When a drifter swaps an LS engine into his Nissan Sylvia, will he even be getting his money back in his drifter Nissan that he paid for? Nope, not even that! Imagine that???!!! An ICE car that relatively cheap to buy and make, a drifter who got his Nissan at the junk yard, his LS at the junk yard, paid good money for brakes and suspension and steering and roll bars and all the things he needs to drift his car, but he wont even HE wont get his money back because well...not that many people out there value drifting.... Do people value EV cars? Enough of them to convert classics? Well...EV West in CA seems to have some sort of customer base...

No we are not. THIS is what you are saying. You are saying that EV conversions are insanely expensive that no car will ever be worth the conversion price. And Im saying that even with internal combustion crate engines, restored cars, some of them, most of them will NEVER be worth the restoration price. Especially if done correctly and properly... Im also saying that in the near future, when EVs are going to be ubiquitous, like those LS engines are today in junkyards that lend themselves to tons of swaps for restorations that help with VALUE in recuperation monies from expensive restorations, so will EV motors...

OK...so what are you sating now? That $3900 for 1 motor @ 281HP is not that expensive after all? But this build requires 2 motors plus the battery pack and so forth and so forth making this build expensive. That is why we are talking about value in the first place. The Hellephant is one expensive crate engine. Plus, there is one other metric that make it more akin to the Hellephant rather than the Coyote. Production numbers. The Hellephant is not mass produced. The EV motor from Ford is not mass produced. (Not yet at least) The Coyote is. The Hellephant is a specialty engine. So is the EV motor from Ford as of now. It will probably be common place in the near future. Not the Coyote. It could be found at your local junkyard. But lets talk about how car electric motors will be ubiquitous in the very near future and swaps into classic cars will be cheaper then as one could find these motors in the junk yard... Teslas, Rivians, GM Ultiums, Ford Mach Es, VW ID4s, Nissan Leafs, Chevrolet Bolts... Look, I could do a rather cheap EV conversion on this Chevette today! No need to wait for the near future... Swap out parts from these two Bolts... Maybe I could save this Beretta instead? Here, another Bolt to help with either the Chevette or Beretta.

But you are CHANGING the dynamics... A Coyote engine could be gotten at a junk yard on for pennies on the dollar from a wrecked Mustang. (Well, that is more of a GM LS engine thing rather than the Coyote) Problem is, EV car engines are NEW to the market. The Hellephant crate engine is 30 000 dollars over at Mopar. The EV engine over at Ford is akin to that Hellephant. NOT a Coyote. The Coyote 5.0 has been produced for a decade now. Id like to say there are millions of them on the road as the Coyote was also offered in the F150. LS GM engines...there are literally millions of them on the road and in the junk yards... But...I could play the game. How much is a 1966 Ford Galaxie or 1967 Fairlane worth to boomers in 2021? (Any year) Mercury Cougar? Even going to a junk yard and acquiring a Coyote, one STILL has to be careful in restoring these cars I mentioned because these cars are not valued as high as the Mustang you chose... And yes, even with 'only' 460 HP and 420 ft/lbs of torque, brakes and suspensions NEED to be made to these cars. Steering also... Those old things in these cars NEED to be upgraded if we are talking about VALUE and MONIES RECUPERATED... Because if we are NOT going to talk about monies RECUPERATED...then who cares how much money we pour into a car build... Value is NOT a metric when the owner doesnt care how much it costs him. The owner wants an EV Chevette, the owner wants an EV Chevette... That is HIS problem... Well...like I said in my last post. If the owner wants an EV Chevette, then the owner wants an EV Chevette... But we ARE talking about value. If you want to make a profit with an EV conversion muscle car, one better choose his muscle car wisely in order to make money off of it. A Mustang would be that car. A Delorean would be another. A 1960s Hippie VW van could also be a candidate. But...all others are money pits. But guess what? A 1958 Plymouth Fury with a Hellephant engine swap would ALSO be a money loser...

So was I... Crate engines sold from OEMs ARE expensive regardless what powertrains one decides to use. Value is usually not high... Cars are money pits in general. Unless one buys and sells them like stocks. And when that happens, more money than brain idiots buy them sky rocketing the price of certain cars. These are the cars that have caught the eye from the regular idiots that want to buy into to look cool. So those cars, one could go a tad crazier with the mods and some idiot will buy it. Go mod crazy on a '67 Mustang. THAT will include EV conversion. Some moron will buy it for 500 000 dollars. Dont go crazy on a '67 Olds 442 because above a certain price point, the restorer will NEVER get back the money he put into it. Yeah...steering and paint jobs ARE mandatory. If the car does dot have power steering, in today's market, it NEEDS powersteering, ESPECIALLY if one wants to sell it at a higher price... A modern set-up is needed for comfort. Today's buyer is used to TODAY's ride-a-bility! But what about safety? Is a 50 year old design, but more to it than that, could a 50 year old part handle the stress of 700 plus horses and 600 ft/lbs of torque when needed to turn quickly? Just like the brakes... Because that Hellcat modded 1971 'Cuda will be scootin' much more quicker than it was in 1971... Paint job? Well.... If one wants to sell and try to get their money back from a mod build that cost over 50 thousand dollars, one better have a quality paint job on the car... Or the car will not be worth the asking price. The FIRST thing people see on car to buy, a RESTORED car, is the PAINT job. They already know the car. They are asking to buy a 1971 Plymouth Cuda. They could tell the car in question a MILE away... They come to the car and the FIRST thing they SEE is the PAINT. They will KNOW its a Hellcat engine under the hood. They will KNOW its got Wilwood or Brembo Brakes. They wont see those first. They will come up to the car and see the PAINT job first... So yeah...you COULD say these are separate and irrelevant issues. But are they really? Especially when we are talking about...value and getting your money back from selling a car with a crate engine under the hood? EV or otherwise?

Lets be honest tho... Lets say, you take that same $7500 car https://www.autabuy.com/search/?Model=Demon&Year1=1970&Year2=1975&Make=Dodge (This fast link shows a $3200 Dodge Demon that needs restoring along with 2 others that are restored where both cars' asking price is $39 000) (And this fast link: https://barnfinds.com/affordable-survivor-1972-dodge-dart-swinger/ where the reader in 2017 thought that $7500 was too much asking price but the car will appreciate) and shoehorned a $20 000 Hellcat crate engine in it PLUS all the accesories required to run the engine like a $5 000 transmission and $2000 for the electric harness etc... https://www.mopar.com/en-us/shop/performance/engine-accessories.html 6.2L Supercharged Crate HEMI® Engine Kit Part No. 1 77072452AD | $2,265.00 (MSRP) Tremec Transmission and Assembly Kit Part No. PW100003AB | $5,250.00 (MSRP) Hellcrate 6.2L Supercharged Crate HEMI® Engine Part No. 1 68303089AB | $20,215.00 (MSRP) what's it then worth to someone else? Certainly not the amount you put into the car....regardless if its a killer internal combustion engine, right? Therefore, its disingenuous to talk about how much a hopped up, restored car is worth because MOST of the time, the monies spent restoring cars will NEVER be recuperated. EVEN if we ARE talking about cars that HAVE caught the public eye. Like a Jaguar E-Type or a '70 GTO or a '71 Plymouth Hemi 'Cuda or a Mustang or Camaro... A numbers matching Hemi 'Cuda convertible is probably worth to some rich boomer several million dollars today. But that same numbers matching Hemi 'Cuda to a shytty millennial is probably worth diddly squat. Unless of course that shytty millennial treats that 'Cuda like a stock commodity and buys it only to flip it to another dumb ass boomer for double 24 hours later after buying it... But a Cuda convertible, if it was demonized with a 6.2 liter supercharged nouveau Hemi, it probably be getting just slightly more money than it was modified for JUST because its a Barracuda. It has caught the public eye for quite some time. 30 000 dollars for the engine and all the accessories. Upgrades to the steering, suspension, brakes is a MUST. Add another $20 000 for that...easily! Plus all the little things like interior upgrades and paint jobs. Plus labour...if one does not have access to a paint shop or work garage etc... https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1971-PLYMOUTH-BARRACUDA-CUSTOM-CONVERTIBLE-249764 This convertible Barracuda was sold at $115 000... https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1971-PLYMOUTH-BARRACUDA-CUSTOM-CONVERTIBLE-248351 This modified convertible was sold for $80 000. Lesser cars, meaning, less mythical muscle cars that have slipped the test of time, will not be getting these prices at auction. Ill repeat, its foolish to think that JUST because electric powertrains ARE insanely high priced to convert and mod classics right now, that crate internal combustion engine swapping is not as insanely high priced as well and would recuperate monies thrown at restomodded classics...

Amelia was mentioned earlier in the day...

Private Jets...since they have been the center of attention in some circles today.

I never had an issue with the Zeta Camaro. I loved all three (almost) equally. I started thinking the Camaro was too big and heavy towards the end of the Zeta generation. And by that time, I wanted the Camaro to start a new design language. When the Alpha Camaro came out, I was disappointed with its looks as Chevy didnt make it look significantly different from the Zeta. There are several things that bother(ed) me about the Camaro. 1. For far too long, it has looked the same. It doesnt have that Challenger mystique about it (Hellcat/Demon) to get away from the stale, long in the tooth styling. 2. The Zeta Camaro was big and heavy. 1st gen Camaros (1969) were small and nimble. The year the Zeta and Alpha Camaros are supposedly inspired from. The Alpha Camaro makes a perfect retro for the 1969. The Zeta, not so much. So that bothered me towards the end of the Zeta run. The Challenger historically was always a tad bigger than the Camaro and Mustang. Just a tad smaller than mid-size. This is why I like the Challenger over the Zeta Camaro. Chrysler nailed it. As has Ford... 3. I should have loved the Alpha Camaro sooner as that is the perfect size for a 1969 retro Camaro. But repeating myself, Chevy needed to change up the styling. Ford did. The 2005 doesnt look at all like this gen, and both generations have the 1st generation as inspiration and look like the 1st gen Mustang yet both latest generations of Mustangs look nothing alike. 4. The Challenger punched through with a 707 HP beast of an engine and a very cool name. Hellcat. They doubledowned with an 800 plus HP version with an even cooler name. Demon to start a war not only in the pony car market, but with the entire automotive world touching not only expensive exotics, but with the elctric car revolution... 5. Chevy was but a follower... 6. But, like you said @Robert Hall The Alpha Camaro is a stunningly good looking vehicle. A GREAT performance sports car. Rivaling and BEATING German sports cars no matter what the price range is of those German sports cars. I took my hater glasses off as I too, realized that the Camaro's days are numbered. If the nameplate will live on, it will be an electric vehicle, and a CUV at that kinda like the Mache E. At least Ford will continue on with the Mustang as an EV coupe... I dont think Chevy will do the same.... And yes, me too, would want one sooner than later. As of now, sure I prefer the Challenger, but Id take any of of them. With a V8 of course.

And then Jay Leno's Garage has invited the new Mach 1 on his youtube channel and my Camaro love dissipates again (slightly, because I did do a 180 degree turn on the Camaro and I have started to adore it) to love the Mustang more than the Camaro. Its just a fresher design even though this generation Mustang is also getting old. The error that Chevy done was to keep the same design language of the Zeta Camaro for the Alpha Camaro. With that being said, Im kinda hypocritical as I prefer the Challenger over both and the Challenger has an even OLDER design language than either... It is what it is!!!

I always pronounced it "played" for whatever reason and nobody has ever corrected me. Yes, American English has that one correct. My random thought of the day.

A string of GM and GM related one way or other, mid-engine production cars

Speaking of Tesla...and lumberjacks... Is it "plaaahd" or is it "played"?

Im into Lexus LFAs too ever since the C8 Z06 was revealed. I revisited the sound of that V10, revisited the engineering aspects of it and decided that I miss this car. This one is a case of dont know what you got 'til its gone. I always liked it, but never loved it. Now I love it. It does lack some sensual lines. It kinda looks generic to be honest. But at least the Toyoter designers didnt put unnecessary curves on it just to have curves. It is styled with a purpose and it looks the part of meaning business without any unnecessary boyracer cues on it. It might not have been the fastest when it came out, and I think this is the reason why it failed in the market place, but many people, including myself, missed the point entirely about this car. Being the fastest was not the reason for this car. The engineering behind it was. The C8 Z06 made me cement that thought about this car. Anyway....less blah blah and more pics please!

I just viewed a video where a Chevy engineer confirmed that the DRY weight of the Z06/Z07 package C8 is the lightest at 3450 LBS. Add all the liquids and the weight goes up by another couple of hundred pounds. That tells me 2 things about the Corvette C8 and what Chevy wanted to do with it. (This is my personal opinion) Chevy wanted to keep the daily driven qualities intact with the C8 all the way through. Chevy wanted to go slightly upscale in feel with the interior with the C8. Chevy didnt want to lend itself to ANY possible feedback stating that the C8 feels cheap in ANY way even if a said model was going to be a stripped model on purpose for racing and track purposes. Weight reduction regarding thinner materials in glass using plexiglass or lexan glass or seats being bare bones or radio and A/C delete and stuff like that to make a pure bred race car was never an option they wanted to explore. Introducing an all carbon fiber and exotic material chassis was never on option (for a Z06) as that would just explode the MSRP price point. That leaves a very very interesting option going forward though. Either for the Zora or for a special special model down the road either as a very very limited C8 or a last model goodbye send off model before the C9 is introduced. To have a massive weight reduction model offered. But alas, some people WILL harp on the fact that the Z07 will be 3600/3700 lbs. But sadly, many naysayers will gloss over the superb engineering that went into the LT6 engine and the superb chassis that is the C8 and the Z06 version of it. Winning Hearts, Not Just Minds Throughout the 2023 Chevrolet Corvette Z06's design and development process, the team responsible for it was keenly aware of the respect the C8 Stingray has received in the wider sports-car community. To build on this respect, the Z06 needs to accelerate quicker and handle better, but it also needs to feel even more special. The Z06 must be a car that inspires buyers to eagerly swap their Lamborghini Huracán or Ferrari F8 for—and not because performance tests like MotorTrend's generate better numbers in it, or because of its value proposition. No, Chevy wants to conquest other brands' loyalists via the fact those customers' hearts and heads simply must have this Corvette with the banshee howl, the Can-Am sucker-car grip, and the cockpit-style cabin lined with soft leather and carbon-fiber trim. And because the Z06 promises to be the more satisfying driver's car.