oldshurst442

@Robert Hall I know you hold the E30 Bimmer on a very high pedestal. Sure... In guess. Whatever. But you also hold an Audi 5000 to that same high pedestal? While probable dissing on the FWD GM A platform? Sure, you could do that too. But the Chevrolet Celebrity, even in the laughable Eurosport trim, the Pontiac 6000, Oldsmobile Cutlass Cierra and Buick Century were really good cars. Held there own... The Audi 5000 was really not that special. The only special thing about it was because it was made in Germany? THAT is the laughable part. It was the same type of FWD appliance car that you like to diss as the GM A platform cars. What Quattro? Yeah yeah yeah It was "winning" rallye races... I guess THAT was the marketing angle that Audi was peddling and the automotive journalism world was spewing... Oh... GM had an answer to that, but I guess it wasnt German and it wasnt winning rallye races to count as something good... But at least the GM cars were not accelerating by themselves... But I guess we will say that that story was not true though. We will just continue to bash GM cars from this era just because its a better storyline to cling on to.

I had editted and added a few things to that: Edited part: Problem is...in the 1980s, Car and Driver and everyone else ONLY crapped on American cars. NOT on the E30... Because it wasnt crapped on. The E30 in the US was ALWAYS revered. Just pick up any mag that compares a Cimarron to an E30. The Cimarron was NOT the ideal car for Cadillac. But taken one on one forgetting that the Cimarron was also a Chevrolet, which wasnt that bad of a car in realty, the Cimarron comoared to the E30 was on PAR with the E30. What? RWD versus FWD? With an E30 that had aprox the same HP? They also forgetting to mention that the E30 was SHYTTIER than the Cavalier in Europe? But you did counter with this: Only partly true for the E30. Only the "M" E30 was truly performance oriented. But I will relinquish the debate as there is merit to RWD versus FWD whether FWD drivers want to admit to it or not. Including myself. And yeah, Lincoln and Cadillac did NOT have the right engineering done to their cars to counter the new definition of luxury. But, in context, what they did give us in the 1980s was not bad. It wasnt the European definition of what yuppie money, cocaine fueled Wallstreet types demanded from luxury. Lets not forget though. The dinosaur big American RWD land yacht luxury was still selling more than the European sport sedan luxury car well into the mid-1990s. So much so that Mercedes Benz was lost in that they didnt know what direction THEY wanted to go. Rival BMW or rival Lincoln/Cadillac and the new comer Lexus. Ditto for Audi...

From the September 2019 issue of Car and Driver. Problem is...in the 1980s, Car and Driver and everyone else ONLY crapped on American cars. NOT on the E30... Because it wasnt crapped on. The E30 in the US was ALWAYS revered. Just pick up any mag that compares a Cimarron to an E30. The Cimarron was NOT the ideal car for Cadillac. But taken one on one forgetting that the Cimarron was also a Chevrolet, which wasnt that bad of a car in realty, the Cimarron comoared to the E30 was on PAR with the E30. What? RWD versus FWD? With an E30 that had aprox the same HP? They also forgetting to mention that the E30 was SHYTTIER than the Cavalier in Europe? My dad owned a 1986 Chevrolet Celebrity. I learned to drive in that car... @balthazar showed me where the Celebrity was quicker and faster than a 1986 Audi 5000. I too, was under the impression that the Celebrity was a dog as compared to the German competition. Yeah...a Celebrity being competition, if you could call it that to an Audi 5000. And that is thanx to American automotive journalism where my perceptions were corrupted by that drivel...

@surreal1272 To clarify then: @Robert Hall said that Road&Track catered to a demographic that preferred small, road hugging European cars over large, American cars. I get that. I really do. There is a quality of ride and sportiness to being small and nimble to which American GIs got experience over in Europe during the war and craved that coming back home after the war. This is where my pic of a Hot Rod Ford comes in as this is what these GIs did to replicate what they saw in Europe. And then the muscle car era came upon us when these Hot Rods evolved into what the Detroit 3 noticed what was happening on the strip and street etc... And you cant deny that fact... The list is a very accurate way of explaining to why cars after the war were. Small European cars were always a thing. Big large American cars were always a thing too. Large European cars also existed before the war. After the war, well...read the list... But...in CONTEXT: Balthy ALSO described this "sporty phenomenon" in another point of view that some of us FAIL to recognize or even ACKNOWLEDGE... So there is that... But...Im not the one to diss different car cultures. THIS is about automotive journalism. And I realize that! Ill agree with you with your statement here! I have issues with the hypocritical automotive journalism along with the hypocritical opinions of certain anti-American car sentiment car folk that I know personally in my real life.

After reading this sentence, I came to realize this is my exact issue as well. From the automotive magazines comparing and contrasting and describing these cars to my idiot Greek friends that praise European cars blindly, to the accepting universally that American cars equal junk anywhere we go whether we are in Europe or in North America and we FAIL to put ANYTHING in context and we ABSOLUTELY fail to remember how really shytty European cars were and STILL are...

LOL (sarcastically) So...Road&Track were smitten by underpowered European econoboxes while the rest of America prefered these from the early 1950s to the mid 1950s and eventually to these Like I said....the OVERWHELMINGLY demographic of what cars were enthused by Americans was these: It was a VERY tiny subset of Americans that preferred British roadsters. Yes...Hot Rods and the Chevrolet Corvette arose from that subset. But QUICKLY became what I posted above... Why? But read it ANYWAY 1. In Europe, after WW2, infrastructure had to be rebuilt. Gasoline and materials had to be rationed for the rebuilding of the destroyed cities. Roads. Buildings. Bridges. etc. 2. Although there was plenty of jobs in construction, Europe's economy stank more or less, give or take, from 1945-1985. Some countries LONGER than that. 3. European countries are old. The roads, even if they were destroyed and had to be built up again, with the buildings being raised up again, the blueprints were already there for thousands of years. The countries, cities, towns and villages were grown with bi-pedal humans and donkeys and horse and buggy. Plus, many European cities and towns and villages are on MOUNTAIN SIDES. Tight little twisting roads where a small miscalculation in driving perception equals death. 4. In this same time frame, the US experienced a MASSIVE economic boost. 5. Although some cities were also built on the same premise of bi-pedal humans and horse and buggy, that would be the founding and settled parts of these cities. The cities GREW in this time frame but grew with the AUTOMOBILE in mind. The cities and towns for the MOST part are built on nice, huge, LONG and STRAIGHT roadways. 6. The US now experienced a new age. A continuation of the industrial age, but with the automobile as the prime source of transportation. 7. Why American cars were big and European cars were small. Why American cars were V8 powered and European cars were and STILL are displacement challenged and why American cars were cushy while European cars HAD to handle seem like a no-brainer to me. 8. Its THOSE reasons why a certain car culture arose in the US. 9. We all like to believe there was a car culture in Europe after WW2, but there really wasnt. 10. European car manufacturing FOR Europe was geared towards small, economical shyteboxes. 11. European car manufacturing for America were those "great" handling sporty cars... 10. So why did American automotive journalism NOT knock them for being UNDERpowered since American car tastes were, well, street light to street light racing... 11. Why didnt American automotive journalism NOT knock European cars for being so freaking small, uncomfortable and useless for LONG road trips? 12. Lets NOT forget we still hold THAT as a top priority as there is a quite a large subset of American citizens TODAY bitching about electric car range anxiety for the aforementioned and famous American road trip. 13. Although American cars DID become shytty with their cars. Crap interiors. Less reliable. In that SAME time frame, European cars were NO BETTER. Actually, they were WORSE.

Ad nauseam. And sometimes, for NO reason at all. But yet, the SAME scrutiny and criticism was and is not reciprocated against the European and Japanese cars. https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a37444029/2021-maserati-ghibli-trofeo-is-not-german-in-every-way-it-should-be/ This particular Ghibli – the M157 – has been around since 2013 and the only reason it’s not more familiar is that so few are sold. Remember, the low-spec E-Class is used as a taxi in Germany. BMW 5-Series are cop cars. The Ghibli is not a cab. It took 20-30 years for Road&Track to criticize this way. But then again, two Euro cars are being talked about... When a 2021 Cadillac Blackwing CT5-V is gonna be written about, a Mercedes E class is NOT gonna be criticized in that way... I wonder if greasy and sweaty will be used describing an American product? All is fair in love and war, I guess...

But...I too have a problem with creative language automotive journalism. ALWAYS looking at context. 1. While its true that European (sports) cars were "underpowered" but handled and American cars were "too heavy", "large" but fast. 2. The thing is, American automotive journalism ALWAYS knocked American cars with this creative nonsensical creative journalism and propped up in the same manner and language the Japanese and European counterparts. I wanna know why American automotive journalism did this? To KNOCK your own industry while prop up the foreign. We ALL know why European cars were underpowered while American cars were V8 rocket ships. We ALL know why European cars handled and why American cars, well, favored a more relaxed, cushy highway ride. But I will state the reasons why: 1. In Europe, after WW2, infrastructure had to be rebuilt. Gasoline and materials had to be rationed for the rebuilding of the destroyed cities. Roads. Buildings. Bridges. etc. 2. Although there was plenty of jobs in construction, Europe's economy stank more or less, give or take, from 1945-1985. Some countries LONGER than that. 3. European countries are old. The roads, even if they were destroyed and had to be built up again, with the buildings being raised up again, the blueprints were already there for thousands of years. The countries, cities, towns and villages were grown with bi-pedal humans and donkeys and horse and buggy. Plus, many European cities and towns and villages are on MOUNTAIN SIDES. Tight little twisting roads where a small miscalculation in driving perception equals death. 4. In this same time frame, the US experienced a MASSIVE economic boost. 5. Although some cities were also built on the same premise of bi-pedal humans and horse and buggy, that would be the founding and settled parts of these cities. The cities GREW in this time frame but grew with the AUTOMOBILE in mind. The cities and towns for the MOST part are built on nice, huge, LONG and STRAIGHT roadways. 6. The US now experienced a new age. A continuation of the industrial age, but with the automobile as the prime source of transportation. 7. Why American cars were big and European cars were small. Why American cars were V8 powered and European cars were and STILL are displacement challenged and why American cars were cushy while European cars HAD to handle seem like a no-brainer to me. 8. Its THOSE reasons why a certain car culture arose in the US. 9. We all like to believe there was a car culture in Europe after WW2, but there really wasnt. 10. European car manufacturing FOR Europe was geared towards small, economical shyteboxes. 11. European car manufacturing for America were those "great" handling sporty cars... 10. So why did American automotive journalism NOT knock them for being UNDERpowered since American car tastes were, well, street light to street light racing... 11. Why didnt American automotive journalism NOT knock European cars for being so freaking small, uncomfortable and useless for LONG road trips? 12. Lets NOT forget we still hold THAT as a top priority as there is a quite a large subset of American citizens TODAY bitching about electric car range anxiety for the aforementioned and famous American road trip. 13. Although American cars DID become shytty with their cars. Crap interiors. Less reliable. In that SAME time frame, European cars were NO BETTER. Actually, they were WORSE. So why the creative language? Especially the knocking of American cars but prepping up European ones? I am with Balthy on this one.

Ive never leased...so, Im asking. GM could refuse to sell you your leased car? Force you to lease/buy a new one?

Ive seen some really nice rides these past few days. I just dont remember what I saw. Is that a normal thing? Lets see... I too saw a blue Camaro with T-Tops. It was a '82-'85 Z28 with the grey side skirts. It too was a nice clean ride. '85 or '86 red Trans Am with the similar popular grey side skirts like the Camaro. Again, nice clean ride. Mid '80s BMW 3 Series. Another nice clean ride. mid to late '70s Chevy C/K step side pick-up truck that was lowered but had a classic muscle car stance where the back end was higher than the front. Fat rear tires. Crappy '70s brown with even crappier '70s graphics. The graphics didnt look like they came stock from GM. But they really had a '70s vibe to them. Orange pinstriping or whatever the hell it was... It wasnt a clean ride. It didnt look restored. The paint had some massive fade to it. But the truck itself also didnt look beat up either. A Hellcat widebody Challenger. Dark grey with black racing stripes. I giggled like I was a teenager and saw my high school crush. My kids were in the car and wondered what all that was about. I just pointed to the car which was parked while we came to our stop sign and they understood right away. They knew the car in question. I have pointed out this car to them a literal thousand times!!! I know there were a couple of others but I dont seem to recall... Oh yeah...I just remembered A former police interceptor Ford Crown Vic. We just dont see those around anymore. Made me realize how I liked them. Now I miss them.

Not saying anything about nothing.... But just wanted to point out that "as recently as 1970" also means half a century ago. Seeing as GM was formed in 1908, in 1970 that would make GM 62 years old at that time. 1970 to today is 52 years. Not quite at the middle of GM's history, but almost. Just sayin' that I kinda understand that 1970 doesnt seem like a long time ago because we grew up during that time, but it IS a long time ago.

First thing that came to my mind: Is THAT Elvis' daughter? LISA marie???!!! Like what happened? The second thing to pop into my mind:

yeah! Wouldn't have THAT been a hoot!

Yes. Makes sense. Im shocked. I not only remember the movies, but completely understand them too! Neo beat the agents which in the end was only one, Mr. Smith cloning himself. But I suppose the peace between the humans, machines and the agents wanting more power has been broken. I think this is the storyline of Resurrections.

Yes. That would be a plausible way of introducing them back. If I was to understand the logic of the Matrix, wasnt the black woman, forget her name, the Oracle I think, wasnt she a software code written by the machines?

LOL When it comes to milking money from the would be movie goers, I am sure the writers found a clever way... Sometimes these things are seamless. Sometimes writing back characters, especially from the dead, dont seem quite so logical and/or subtle... *cough* PALPATINE *cough* If in THIS case its kinda dumb as like it was with *cough* PALPATINE *cough* , lets just enjoy the ride! Movies are meant to enjoy the ride and not obsess over the nuances of how it should or shouldnt be. I was pretty miffed over the fact that Palpatine was even a thing...for the first 30 minutes of the movie. Was pretty pissed that Rey was his granddaughter for another 15 minutes. I buckled down and enjoyed the ride. I bought the DVD and have seen The Rise of Skywalker several times since and enjoy it immensely every single time. I still think it was a stupid writing choice. But still entertaining nonetheless. I think Trinity and Neo being brought back will be more logical than Palpatine was. So there is that! PS: I aint preaching to you or anybody about enjoying or not, the ride of movie going. Just shooting the shyte... Explaining how I will be looking at it!

I always thought the Matrix franchise used Billy Idol's Shock to the System. But no! I guess seeing this video in the past made me think this way. Anyway, the song is PERFECT for the Matrix franchise as is White Rabbit!

^ oh...kay?! I guess. Was never really a big fan of the Matrix franchise. It took me watching the first one 3 times and a then 16 year old (in 2004 or 2005) employee of mine explaining to me the concept for me to understand. And then I binged watched all 3 of them back to back. Not greatly enamored but entertained. The 1st time I saw the first one, I stopped watching it after the first 40 minutes. Anyway, this one looks badass. But if I am to remember correctly, the movie ends as a truce between him and the machines, right? Loved the song choice!

The caption says this belonged to Elvis. Regardless. I think its a pretty Caddy Although the coupe is nice too I seem to be attracted more to the wagon?! Im all shook up with that revelation...

I dunno But, Dodge seems to be selling up the cray cray factor. I aint gonna talk about the sports car makers like Ferrari, Porsche... But Ford too, seems to be selling up the cray cray factor. GTs (with a possible V8 for a last hurrah), Mustang GT500s, Raptors, even Mach E GTs and Edge STs. Chevrolet too actually. Camaro 1LEs, ZL1s, Corvette Z06 Z07s and ZR1s and Zoras. GMC Hummer with Freedom Mode. Cadillac with Blackwing Vs Honda with Type R and Type S Civics and NSXs. I dunno what you wanna say. But go on and say it. If you are peeved that the majority of people buy appliance CUVs, and GM caters to that... At least look at what GM is and HAS given us to appreciate the cray cray. If you bought some of that GM cray cray in the past, GREAT! And BE pissed that society in general has waned of the cray cray. But if you havent bought the cray cray the last 5-10-15 years, why are you even pissed to begin with??? Be GLAD that there is STILL some craziness left for us either to buy or drool. Including a Plaid Model S from Tesla.