Suaviloquent

Yeah, the Escalade interior is quite nice. But it just doesn't carry over to the CT6, IMO.

How well engineered was the Ciel?? The ElMiraj?? At what point was it not made clear that they were both styling exercises to usher in .. well new styling? The Ciel is the concept car of what the CT6, XT5, Escalade.. and CTS, f would look like, sans the convertible top. The ElMiraj is the next phase.. unless the new head of Global Design changes something. AND HOLD THE f@#k UP!!! Are U telling me that U believe that the S550.. because that's what I've been saying all along (not the S63 or S65) has an interior on par with the RR Ghost.. or the Bentley Continental??? Have U ever been in any of the three.. in recent years??? Dude.. just I'm done Those aren't my words, they're from the auto media that gets to spend time in all those vehicles. No, it doesn't beat them. But it's sure as hell closer to them, than the Cadillac is closer to it. And no one gives two $h!s on what platform or how well engineered those cars would have been if that kind of exacting styling, save for the fancy concept headlights were production vehicles. An El Miraj sedan would be beautiful, and worthy of being priced into the stratosphere. And now such a vehicle is up in the wind. Look, here's an example. Lexus had that coupe concept, and the production vehicle looks exactly like it, except the interior is closer to reality, but still off the charts in terms of how it reproduces the vision of the concept. Why couldn't Cadillac wait just a bit longer to get there? It's not like anyone will beat Cadillac on lightweighting anytime soon. The 7 Series has to use carbon fibre, and it still can't match the CT6. While you're here spitting venom about the CT6, I can only see the blatant double standard in your arguments. If you don't believe me, please reference your endless defense in the Continental thread while giving everyone else hell who dared to criticize it. Just saying. What goes around truly comes around. I still like the CT6 way more than the Conti. Besides, I still believe that handling at the limit is the last priority of anyone buying a large sedan. Especially Cadillac large sedans, given the vast history and most recently the XTS. And the Conti is a wallflower against an S-Class. There is no double standard. I wasn't giving hell. I was trying to coax a reasonable argument as to why anyone should care about driving dynamics in such large as hell sedans. From a luxury only standpoint, it's just a non-factor. And then if some GM fans started saying suddenly the CT6 is actually competitive interior-wise against the S-Class, they're patently wrong. Heck, ccap mentioned the comment how the CT6 is not going to match up to an S-Class. Which is what I'm trying to get inside the head of the staunch GM fan. Go ahead, rail against the Conti how it's not a sports sedan, something that Lincoln mentioned 5 months ago.

How well engineered was the Ciel?? The ElMiraj?? At what point was it not made clear that they were both styling exercises to usher in .. well new styling? The Ciel is the concept car of what the CT6, XT5, Escalade.. and CTS, f would look like, sans the convertible top. The ElMiraj is the next phase.. unless the new head of Global Design changes something. AND HOLD THE f@#k UP!!! Are U telling me that U believe that the S550.. because that's what I've been saying all along (not the S63 or S65) has an interior on par with the RR Ghost.. or the Bentley Continental??? Have U ever been in any of the three.. in recent years??? Dude.. just I'm done Those aren't my words, they're from the auto media that gets to spend time in all those vehicles. No, it doesn't beat them. But it's sure as hell closer to them, than the Cadillac is closer to it. And no one gives two $h!s on what platform or how well engineered those cars would have been if that kind of exacting styling, save for the fancy concept headlights were production vehicles. An El Miraj sedan would be beautiful, and worthy of being priced into the stratosphere. And now such a vehicle is up in the wind. Look, here's an example. Lexus had that coupe concept, and the production vehicle looks exactly like it, except the interior is closer to reality, but still off the charts in terms of how it reproduces the vision of the concept. Why couldn't Cadillac wait just a bit longer to get there? It's not like anyone will beat Cadillac on lightweighting anytime soon. The 7 Series has to use carbon fibre, and it still can't match the CT6.

It's the onus on Cadillac to prove how that is a benefit for someone buying a large sedan like that. That part is not going to be readily accepted, instead, the CT6 will default back to how it is a very nice large sedan, and is reasonably priced.

Of course the first question I'd ask is if they do all those things.. will U ante up the base price of $90K to buy one? Doubt it.. for a bunch of reasons, but mostly because U are full of $h!. The CT6 is an S-Class competitor where it counts.. and for someone to say that it can't compete because of a few minor details, when the $25K+ price difference is brought into play is ridiculous and quite frankly stupid. (The last part because I think U suck.. and U are a f@#kin blowhard.) The V8 availability... is the only thing U say that has any validity. The interesting part is that my top of the line CTS has as nice of an interior as the S-Class, and addresses the issues in the interior of the less expensive CT6 that U speak. But alas.. there is the solution, and the issue; Should Cadillac had come right out the box with CTS-V (read $10K-35K more) type amenities in a car that had to prove itself.. or waited one year and put out a new V8 encased in the car that was on the market already SHOWING AND PROVING? Insulting me won't win you any points. I think many Cadillac fans are ultimately blind as to how the firm can actually capture people who don't like the firm. The only thing that would make tehm show respect is complete dominance, even in the interior. I love Cadillac. But it's stupid people who think Cadillac has bottled lightning that need to realize the most advanced chassis in the world won't save them from ultimate scrutiny over the interior. That and before JD came in it was promised it would defy all critics. The price difference isn't the point, genius. I want Cadillac to CHARGE MORE. (READ THAT AGAIN) CHARGE MORE THAN MERCEDES, and while matching or exceeding that interior. And it can't even match it, at any price or trim level. Your top of the line CTS does not have as nice an interior as an S-Class. Damn well an Audi A6 is better. And no, you're opinion ain't worth jack $h!, because Cadillac should NEVER be a value for money company. They should just be the standard that no one can beat. It's that kind of thinking, that will lead Cadillac to success. But they have to have the best of everything. I think a separate engine family is just politically driven, has no basis if they judge the merits of their premium V8 already used in the Escalade. And anyhow, there's a huge marketing gamble, when someone proclaims their product to be world best but then charges bargain basement prices for it. Everyone knows that. Insulting U is my sport of the today.. cause its raining geni.. no jack-ass. The idea in your head that charging more means best shows me that U really are naive. What makes it worse is that in your mind having the more advanced chassis in the world is second to having a leather cap over the airbag. Personally I would have no issue at all if the already stellar Alpha chassis under my CTS was given up for the, by your own admission, most advanced chassis in the world sitting under the CT6.. and all I had to do is give up.. the leather cap on my steering while and take a rubberized one. Yeah, and then you're the one who cries about ATP being the measure of the strength of the brand. Sheesh. And where's the value of the advanced chassis for a luxury standpoint? Tell me? Give me some damn benefits a mogul will get if he/she is sitting in the back, lounging. The CT6 interior can only match up to even a Hyundai Genesis G90, let alone an S-Class, an any way. I'll continue to point of Cadillac flaws, only because I want them to crush everyone else. Cadillac can only do justice to itself, if they go beyond the value for money kind of thinking. A luxury car is an emotional purchase, NOT a rational one. And the Mercedes interior, it's worth every penny above the CT6. Because that's how good it really is. Does it make it a better car? Not for the money. But is it the better luxury saloon? Absolutely. But being able to stomach the price is the price of admission. Besides, if Cadillac had the S-Class pat on the interior, and had the LT1 under the hood, and charged more than the S-Class...suddenlly that's a bad thing. Oh wait...where's my "insert how valuable ATPs are" comment?

Everyone worth a dime was looking when the Ciel and El Miraj concepts came out. It's now after the CT6 came out is where they're disgruntled at the wasted opportunity. They like the car. And no, I think the S-Class is not a good value for money, and I don't particularly like anything about it, but I can readily admit, that the interior is rivaling the levels of Bentley and Rolls Royce. When you get to that point, you can charge a lot of money for it. But I don't think Cadillac needs to be that way, but if the brand has prestige, then they should charge more than anyone else.

NO.. what it is the fact that in reality the S-Class and 7Series are not as far out in the galaxy as some who have very little time in that would believe. People create mental blockages based on what is the accepted or time-honored norm. Thus no car will be as great as the M5 despite the fact that several cars kick the living $h! out it in more ways than just performance.. or the Germans are the epitome of handling yet.. we all actually no its BULL$h! in 2016.. yet we still say it. I take an AWD 403HP TTV6 standard car costing $83K put it up against a RWD 449HP TTV8 standard car costing $10K more.. and the thing that some fool comes at me with as a reason why the S-Class is better is because of a few trinkets on the interior feel less refined. Its as if that idiot forgot.. its $10K less. The issues aren't even $10K less in worth.. $1000 most at that. No they are not. Which baffles people as to why Cadillac cannot do the simple things of ensuring complete dominance. Why spent billions on the Omega platform, and then cut costs on the interior? That's the question they haven't answered. With the CT8 being up in the wind, it won't be answered for quite a while. The first thing, before people even drive the car, is sit inside and take a long look.

Of course the first question I'd ask is if they do all those things.. will U ante up the base price of $90K to buy one? Doubt it.. for a bunch of reasons, but mostly because U are full of $h!. The CT6 is an S-Class competitor where it counts.. and for someone to say that it can't compete because of a few minor details, when the $25K+ price difference is brought into play is ridiculous and quite frankly stupid. (The last part because I think U suck.. and U are a f@#kin blowhard.) The V8 availability... is the only thing U say that has any validity. The interesting part is that my top of the line CTS has as nice of an interior as the S-Class, and addresses the issues in the interior of the less expensive CT6 that U speak. But alas.. there is the solution, and the issue; Should Cadillac had come right out the box with CTS-V (read $10K-35K more) type amenities in a car that had to prove itself.. or waited one year and put out a new V8 encased in the car that was on the market already SHOWING AND PROVING? Insulting me won't win you any points. I think many Cadillac fans are ultimately blind as to how the firm can actually capture people who don't like the firm. The only thing that would make tehm show respect is complete dominance, even in the interior. I love Cadillac. But it's stupid people who think Cadillac has bottled lightning that need to realize the most advanced chassis in the world won't save them from ultimate scrutiny over the interior. That and before JD came in it was promised it would defy all critics. The price difference isn't the point, genius. I want Cadillac to CHARGE MORE. (READ THAT AGAIN) CHARGE MORE THAN MERCEDES, and while matching or exceeding that interior. And it can't even match it, at any price or trim level. Your top of the line CTS does not have as nice an interior as an S-Class. Damn well an Audi A6 is better. And no, you're opinion ain't worth jack $h!, because Cadillac should NEVER be a value for money company. They should just be the standard that no one can beat. It's that kind of thinking, that will lead Cadillac to success. But they have to have the best of everything. I think a separate engine family is just politically driven, has no basis if they judge the merits of their premium V8 already used in the Escalade. And anyhow, there's a huge marketing gamble, when someone proclaims their product to be world best but then charges bargain basement prices for it. Everyone knows that.

Well, when their stock took that much of a tumble, we know that someone would come in to buy it all up.

But then again, I'm all for American cars to stop being the value-minded nonsense that forces them to compromise on profitability and quality.

Well, I guess we'll have to see. I'm not totally against the idea. Except being RWD is what made the vehicle a bargain. And trading away the ZF HP8 for the ZF HP9.....I dunno....

Whatever the intention was. I don't know why anyone would even think twice to even read anything spewed from a radical dictator. Garbage like that can into the waste pile we have setup, if you absolutely have the urge to make point of how bad it stinks.

THIS ARTICLE BELONGS IN THE POLITICAL/SOCIAL ISSUES THREAD SECTION.

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The article from Automobile ultimately says it's not a night and day difference though with the large luxo-barges as it should be. Look, I think of the priorities of the person buying this car, and then I look at the length of it...the only thing that I think is truly nice is the all-wheel steering, because it's probably the only thing that truly is a benefit for handling....the rest of it...think of how the XTS is driven. Will anyone drive the CT6 in any way different from the XTS? So in that sense, is that apparent handling advantage "useful" for them, or creating value? Because if they instead stuffed more money into the interior, then I think they'd have truly blitzed the large sedan segment.

Which is why I find it stupid when then said fans of GM start saying it's a rival to an S-Class, 7 Series or A8. In any way even. C'mon, I may be a General Moron, but I ain't buying that crap. Well I am inclined to buy a CT6. But I ain't buying that crap.

Cadillac's flagship remains the Escalade for now. Which is perfectly fine. I don't think there has to be a rigid template where the top sedan is the flagship vehicle. But I seriously hope that Cadillac does not ingrain in their philosophy that it is beneath them to build a very luxurious interior. Unless they're making a Tesla competitor at Cadillac (which they aren't - admission by their marketing guy), no one is fooled that the CT6 is a flagship vehicle worthy of the Cadillac name in every facet.

That's not the point. They saved no expense for the platform, but then when it came time to actually make the great dare, they floundered on the interior. Like I can't believe how we were all led to believe it would be the car to bring Cadillac to the top. It just isn't that car. And NO it deos not rival an S-Class in any way, shape or form. The S-Class is just out of reach in every CT6 configuration. Unless they fix the interior, put back the same level of craftsmanship from the Fleetwood Brougham D'Elegance, and get the V8 back as well. Here's a review that I thought was far more REALISTIC about the capabilities of the CT6. Sure it's a real savings over the competition. But why muddle in that territory? The marketing guys have to start asking the top brass, why the f*** do we always price ourselves below the competition? It hurts their overall design execution, and leads to compromise. http://www.automobilemag.com/news/2016-cadillac-ct6-review/ Also, I just see this car being rather superfluous if they have another sedan above it. I mean, sure Mercedes makes the Maybach....but they're essentially the same car, even majority of the styling is the same.

No, not even the Platinum CT6 has an interior close to that of the S-Class base model. It's just a pipe dream. Also, Cadillac had in the pre-production Platinum cars an airbag cover that was leather, and for production cars they took it out. There is no resolution of the fact that the CT6 CANNOT compete with the S-Class. Why the hell would JDN say it's "NOT a flagship." Sheesh.

GM may be a huge automaker. But let's get back to our senses. I think a Verano might have done well, if it weren't so that GM is no longer fond of cheap Buicks. But then I think how much less the gap really is now between the Cruze and the oversea Astra, the new Verano may as well be an interior upgrade above all else. And with GM more and more focused on top-end profitability, I hardly think there is any space for a Buick sedan cheaper than $25k, because you can get there in a Cruze quite easily, and still not be fully loaded. Even then, small sedans have a questionable future. You are getting midsize sedans that match the FE of many compacts. The only reason why a small CUV works is that the taller rooflines allow you to package seats that are higher, so you get more space out of less wheelbase.

Well, I'm not so sure about that... what defines design "purity" ? Usually an unbridled commitment to many design cues, some of which become garish over time. Ultimately it leads to stagnation - unless you have a brand image that is simply impenetrable to outside competitors, such that no one can steal buyers from you. That's what.

Is....Is that real?

Rent an Encore if it's available as a rental.... (LEL)!

I think the Cruze is much closer to the Astra now, but you have to get it more loaded as well to resemble anything close to that image above. The problem is that aside from styling, the cars are pretty much two sides of the same coin. Chevy could have easily made the Cruze more sporty like a Mazda 3 or Ford Focus, but instead they focused on a relaxed ride, and NVH.