turbo200

I can't link to it, but it's on autoblog's page. it's a rather big ugly van. according to them it's competition for Dodge Sprinter, but i think that's wrong since it looks much smaller and it only has a 4 cylinder. I'm not sure who this vehicle is supposed to go after, but I bleive it's the commercial market. It's pretty bad though.

hmmm...there's not any differences besides the wheels...unless you're talking about a different set of "previous shots". my impressions of this car is that it's very evolutionary. but the stance is much better. I think it'll be nice. plus it's opel engineered, so the handling and drive this time around will be better.

yes, supposedly the dual mode hybrid will debut on Epsilon. Why does it take GM subsidiaries in other countries to invest in product that we need? Why can't GMNA with all the damn revenue they make invest better in product that clearly we need and is so simple to bring us. This system needs to be standard on all full size cars and Cadillacs. Charge a premium for them, but think of the PR this would bring. GM would truly be proclaimed advanced for incorporating a start/stop system standard. And this would help them meet CAFE and keep full size sedans. You'd think with the years of development BAS has, they could incorporate it profitably as standard equipment, making it high volume.

thegriffon is the voice of reason.

a few things are clear. Alpha is going to be a better and more focused platform than before. Zeta, like FOG said above, is too heavy but the right size for midsized sedans. They are going to have to figure out how to make architectures that are more focused and have resultant cars that make no sacrifices. This may mean going to less flexible architectures, since it seems making a car suitable for a number of markets and adaptable to a number of wheelbases and such has helped make Zeta a pig. Alpha may very well provide the future for a number of brands, Holden, Cadillac, Pontiac. One thing GM must do is invest in high strength steel that weighs less. This is DOABLE. Zeta should be used for now since it's been heavily invested in and helps make the business case for Camaro, as well as the fact that it helps restore luster to Chevy's car brand and Buick's. Cadillac is in dire need of a an uplevel car as well, so Zeta must come. I just still don't see the uproar over CAFE standards that won't be implemented for another decade. Let us enjoy our big cars while we still can, and offer them with smart technology to keep mileage up.

you're missing the whole point. GM will not skimp on V8s at Cadillac, there will be some developed, and they will likely be competitive with what others have to offer. It's just that as we go into the future they see less demand for V8s and more for hi po efficient V6s, like turbo'd DI V6s pushing 400 hp. You are late to catch up as this has been discussed a number of times already. They will not just focus on the lower end, but they haven't publicly revealed thier plans for going uplevel, other than a DTS/STS replacement on Zeta. Cadillac worldwide sales at this point are at almost nothing. They can HOPE to move up, but anything they do won't likely be influenced by an availability of a huge number of V8 engines. I'd venture to guess of the full line luxury carmakers, MB and BMW for example, 80% of thier V8 sales happen here. As we've discussed, CAFE will make this impossible going into the future. As for your little Lexus/ BMW comparo.....each of those sells more than a third of volume on one model line, at Lexus it's the RX and BMW it's the 3-series. I heavily doubt they can achieve the 1 in 4 ratio of V8 engines you would like Cadillac to achieve. Though BMW is closer.

one thing you can bet on is that Cadillac will have a V8 engine available. I'm going to start calling GM "El Stupido" the more I hear of RWD cancellations, and perfectly viable platforms being thrown in the garbage, [i'm hoping for a campaign resonance similar to Obama's message]. but they really aren't completely stupid. it will be probably within reach of the current V8 prices on Cadillac, but I don't know maybe GM will feel the need to price it out of reach of many in order to help meet CAFE. The V8 will likely be a version of the truck engines, but in DOHC form. Apparently, the UAW contract signed last year revealed a DOHC version of the 6.2 smallblock engine was in development. Clearly GM didn't feel it was worth the extra cost to develop a unique set of engines. I can see the rationale there, gas prices are surely going to rise, and the CAFE standards really impose one reality on the carmakers, they will have to find creative solutions, i.e. alternative fuels to improve mileage numbers. I'm with you that this may be a lot of GM saying crap. but looking at the bigger picture for a minute, every single Hummer model is based off an existing GM chassis, so not that expensive to build, but a whole lot of prestige and built in demand with each new model. Your forecast for Cadillac's V8 engine sales is actually way optomistic. Already the DI V6 can produce as much power, the upgrade is waiting in the wings, so any car below Cadillac using the N* engine can be powered by the more efficient DI V6. In fact about the only car that really has to have a V8 in Cadillac's lineup are the mid level and flagship model, which GM hasn't shown a clear case for anyways. SRX and STS V8 sales are at the most maybe 15k. DTS amounts to roughly 40k. So there you have the total V8 engine sales, and again the current V8 is matched by the DI V6, so going into the future, I guess we'll see the V8 being reserved for the ultra highline models in the Cadillac lineup, and expensive versions of replacements for the STS and SRX.

the best part about this is that it's basically hyundai's version of what a Buick Lucerne replacement should look like on Zeta, on paper of course, not design-wise, only maybe 10k cheaper, and more feature-laden. Just imagine what kind of sedan you could have here with the right designers and free-thinking.... and there are rumors GM might be cancelling the Buick Zeta as well.....EL Stupido [GM] strikes again.

funny that REG mentioned the styling as one of the factors against the Magnum. Magnum has poor poor visibility and even worse cargo room, in a wagon that's almost a death knell. But the Magnum initially sold for its cool factor, like a new Mustang would. I thought the Magnum was initially stylish, and I thought the Charger in the right trim could look good, but the impact has worn off and what remains is a gaudy package, in my book. I still think they can both look good with the right mods, but what you usually see are the 3.5s running around that look like tanks running around on those ugly base wheels. In any case the point I'm trying to make is thier styling appeal was/is limited. Then you have a complete lack of practicality with the Magnum, which inherently wagon buyers are looking for practicality, safeness, and maybe a bit of luxury. So automatically traditional wagon/x-over/SUV buyers are out of the pool. then who is buying this car? clearly the buyers have dwindled, and it was more of an impulse buyers' car, and not necessarily someone who needed the utility, but someone who could benefit from its occasional use. Someone who is migrating from a minivan, SUV, or whatever would take the care to notice this Magnum wasn't much of a practical vehicle. So what is it I'm saying? The business case for the Magnum does nothing for a more practically designed, more elegant, better driving, more efficient G8 wagon. Especially not if the business case called for a G8 SW that was low volume.

the price really does put it in another stratosphere. i had not read the price, funny how that can make a car really good looking all of a sudden for $30k I would be hard pressed to find anything more compelling. they are certainly doing thier work when it comes to designing and finding the right price point. It's a shame though that it suffers from the copycat syndrome, however, at the price point its entering it may well be hyundai's LS of this decade. the only red flag I could raise against it is the time spent repairing hyundais....if that's even true of them nowadays....

this car is beautiful. inside and out. and it's a hybrid?

they have to pick apart where they are going to be spending money, what will drive product demand, etc. hummer is profitable and a niche brand, i.e. not that many sales, so it won't have that great of an effect on CAFE. but it has plenty of room to grow, and the option for diesel since it already is profitable. The H4 will help grow the brand exponentially, and a 4 door based off that, along with an H3 pickup will help sales as well. Bottom line is it commands a hefty price tag, has nothing but good will from buyers associated with it, and is sold in small numbers the Northstar engine is also sold in small quantities. but its replacement would have been entirely unique, sharing commonality most likely with the HF V6 engines, but using complex and expensive pieces and technologies, and ending up being produced in quantities less than 70k/year, worldwide. This is what killed it. Lack of volume, and the possibility of even less volume as the years go on because of CAFE. As GM has shown, they like to keep thier engine families around for long periods of time. CAFE would have diminised any returns going into the latter part of the next decade. One more point I want to make. Offering an H4/HX that is this cool for around 30k is not cheapening the brand, it is smart business. Carmakers have learned they can offer entry level models, just so long as those models sacrifice none of the upscale qualities of thier more expensive brethren. Our beloved BMW does it pretty well.

because of a blatantly unimaginative exterior and interior, they've sacrificed any chances at gaining credibility for the brand. a nice interior and spruced up exterior won't be enough to sway more than 10k buyers a year from the huge variety of options available in the 35k price range that already offer a remarkable amount of prestige. buyers in this range are looking to be coddled and filled to the max with features and luxury, like this car, however, unlike this car, they also want to say they've arrived in style. people in this market have a wealth of options that offer prestige, why would they get a hyundai over an Audi, Acura, or Saab even...

without reading through the responses I got an answer to the first few lines of this piece. MAKE A BUSINESS CASE FOR IT. Screw the business case. This will help repair a brand that is ailing for good product, ailing for attention for something redeeming. A brand that has a legitimate shot at becoming a youth brand at GM, actually equivalent to what it has been in the past. This is a stupid move. WHY? Because the product is worthy, and Americans have been starved of good GM product. You want to keep the positive PR ball rolling....well then don't deprive us of reasons to rave. STUPID GM is all I can say. They have an already developed program and product and they're killing it instead of testing the waters. Wagons' presence in Los Angeles is strong. Did anyone stop to think wagons may just be the new it vehicle if gas ever goes up to $4/gallon?

wow, that first shot of the car in motion is stunning. This car can raise the transaction prices of Lincoln, if they spend the money in the right places, i.e. interior..........and then price it at ~$50k. This is a great R-class competitor. It needs the right engines, the right interior [which looks fab in this version], to command that price. But this is solid. The rear isn't right however. the don't need to follow the MKR theme so closely at the rear. but maybe it works better in real life.

I agree. There is a market for big coupes styled right. There are plenty of bigger men, that want something stylish, perhaps empty nesters, maybe younger guys, and cars like the MB CL and 6-series are completely out of thier reach. The problem is automakers seem to think there isn't much of a market, except for Dodge with the Challenger, that should be right up your alley. I think thier research shows there's enough people like you, and that they increasingly are turning to SUVs. But a cool Chevelle or GTO or Velite.....is really still needed, in my book. And one size larger ST coupe would be nice. EDIT: the other issue is establishing how big is too big. I think the 6-series and Mustang are just a couple inches shorter than what ideally we are talking about.

so they cancelled the G8 wagon and ute now? that's pathetic

going from my experience selling civic hybrids and owning one myself, I would say you are completely correct. the point of the hybrid is not to recoup ones investment. on a broader note, looking at the competitive landscape today, we are truly spoiled in our car selection, and we owe it to the imports really for turning it upside down. going on that note, a prius or civic hybrid are comparable in features, size, price, power to what midsize cars were just 7 years ago....this is to me what makes these cars so compelling. the prius hybrid and civic hybrid really are upscale enough, roomy enough, and powerful enough to be considered camry and accord replacements, even though camry and accord of today are much more substantial and powerful cars. taking that into account and that prius can get close to and in some cases above 50 mpg.....well you've got a winning recipe that shows in its sales reports. in LA, the prius isn't just common, it's everywhere, it is the ubiquitous family car, and the civic hybrid is plentiful. take that winning recipe and inject style and passion, well we've yet to see that done from the likes of GM yet. and what the hell is taking so long. but back to the point, is that hybrid owners aren't really thinking in numbers and investments. the cars are fine to drive, really, and going more than 500 miles on a tank does one thing, encourage you to drive more. additionally, they are comfortable knowing they help save oil for the world, and release less pollutants. the argument also will be correct of the tahoe.

yes a Zeta SUV makes sense in so so many different ways. If they can use expensive materials to get the weight down, offer a more hardcore handling setup, a very profitable and perhaps fuel-efficient lightweight Cadillac SRX would be possible and awesome, with real Cadillac proportions. Additionally, I've also suggested Escalade should go to a lighter weight platform that would offer all the space of the current Escalade, maybe more, a traditional shape and yet be able to gain some more tension in the design.....something to continue to compete wiht the Range Rover, but offer a third row like the Escalade does, and retain all the imposing presence. Key to that imposing presence is exterior bulk, though, and Caddy would need to find a platform suitable for all these things

from the time I spent in the G35 I thought it was a little bit better. special areas of refinement in switch operation, panel feel, overall substance. the padding on the armrest is my idea of substance. the cts looks nicer though. there was a sheen to the materials in the CTS, though, that conspired to cheapen the "look", like the fake chrome around some of the dials. MB sadly I spent no time in.

how dare you question my authority? :AH-HA_wink: it might have been an LX model, instead of the top line, but going from my experience the current Pilot just barely edges out the Lambdas in overall materials quality. this is just my opinion. it doesn't mean there are some materials that aren't better in lambda, but overall I just think Lambda materials make the cut, they're more than par for course, but it's really a winning design inside and out that seal the deal.

I agree that the CTS is fab. Inviting, luxurious...these are all terms alluding to the design of the interior. My comments are not about design, but quality strictly. I have a demanding sense of what I want in my automobile, and if we're here to scrutinize what the best each company has to offer is, then I have to be objective and say the CTS' interior quality/contruction is not the best. Another point is the type of pieces used, like Reg mentioned with Japanese cars something that is always admired are the seats. Case in point, with the CTS the rear center armrest is clearly pulled from just another GM, and it has no right to be in the CTS, I don't even know if it has cupholders. Sit in an Audi to see what the rear center armrest should look like...matter of fact sit in an Audi period to see incredibly well done materials that feel substantial and of high quality, as well as looking modern and having an overall cohesive interior design. As for your comments Reg on the Ridge.....again taking design totally out of the equation, while I know that design is a hugely important factor and usually the most influential in getting a consumers' buy, I think in my book equally important is that the quality/construction is there. There can be debates about what makes a car credible enough, and clearly Lambdas and CTS have shown you don't have to have best in class plastics to be best in class, and that was never something I believed either. I just never relent, neither does the competition for that matter. Getting back to the Ridge, the construction, along with materials quality, along with materials/items chosen [i.e. radio head unit, armrest, turn signals] all come together for a solid quality piece that is still ahead of Lambdas......and most GMs in my book. When you have something like a quarter inch gap between where the door panel meets the window, that is a big giant no no in my book, especially inexcusable in the CTS. That kind of poor attention to contruction still exists in GM.

the next time Canada's auto sales reach 18 million in one year, call me. I don't mean to be harsh, but it's America's market that is pivotal to GM's growth, and that was the source of this discussion. If you want to discuss the likelihood of a Prius competitors' sales success in Canada, then you are free to start a thread.

I don't know you guys don't like this, really. I see something really attractive, something smooth, flowing, strong, and carved....a sports car that's small. It looks aggressive and not mousy like small cars can. better than the Volt, imo

the CT coupe would be my choice. Of course the 335i would be fighting a hard battle. For me it would come down to size [nothing bigger than 335i at least from the outside, it's almost too big for me], interior ergonomics/feel/quality, and overall performance. But I LOVE the 335, it's one of my favorite cars on the road. The 335 has perfect seats, and a perfect interior design, imo, I think it's classic, classy, and very sportsman. The killer seats [with killer orange/red color combo], clutch, and butter shifter that feels right and is clearly in the right position seal the deal for me. so it's saying a lot about the Caddy that it ranks as high against the 3-series, just based on looks and what I know abuot the CTS The Cadillac's style on the outside would have it all over any other coupe, though, and would really be a big deciding factor. It remains to be seen how much of that translates to production [i'm sure most of it will]