turbo200

can you link to the front page, we need this to get attention [not that our voices seem to matter much anymore]. This car is clearly what the GTO was supposed to be, down to the Pontiac-like rear and front design theme, as well as tying into the Torana, Monaro, Commodore....the plan was clearly to develop a design theme both Pontiac and Holden could adhere to without much adaptation. The more I look at it, the more enamored I become of it. The stance is sick. It is incredibly different from Camaro, only sharing a high shoulder and high cowl. The interior with a new steering wheel and slightly upgraded console looks phenomonal. I wholeheartedly believe Pontiac could cater more to hardcore drivers/racers group....especially since the plan seems to be to keep Pontiac down, by keeping volume down. This would be a Pontiac, like the sedan G8, to run with BMWs, though this design especially caters to high class buyers by being more distinguished, unique, specialized. It's mistakes like not releasing this car to elevate the brand image at Pontiac, and make people believe in GM again, that make me think perhaps Wagoner needs to go. someone with better priorities would be getting this car to market yesterday.

this needs a link on the front page, hopefully a main story on it to get attention. can somebody post some pictures on this page? I'm not at a computer to do that, but there are excellent pictures of this car available at wieck and probably autoreport.

it's completely brand appropriate as a halo coupe. The largest coupe Pontiac would sell. Sell a stripped down V8 version for 28k, no content, a racing coupe that would not be afraid to go toe to toe with Camaro. heck sell it with manual windows, base AC package, don't be afraid to make Pontiacs all about racing demons. Then of course go on to make it available with options. Pontiac's pricing should be more Acura and less Chevy, so at 28k to start for a stripped V8 model, we're talking low volume, low competition to Camaro, but still a viable price point for Pontiac fans to come in and claim thiers. This is a beautiful coupe. In profile, better looking than G37 and 3-series. Performance, beauty, and a better value. A luxury coupe with real performance at Pontiac, with real luxury the kind only gleaned from looking at a car and knowing its value. Obviously, this car is connected with the early MT renderings of the GTO from a while ago, the yellow one. Put a more expressive front end, like the one found on those drawings, and you'd have a killer car.

absolutely. the TSX you mentioned is a great bogey for ride/handling. The Accord, the civic....all offer great absorption, but perhaps lacking a little in the luxurious ride department. I would say anything European, as in standard VW setups, standard Audi setups....offer the right luxurious ride young affluent buyers are looking for. GM cannot continue to neglect buyers in the affluent areas where roads are windy, tight, poorly maintained.....etc They need to look to their compadres at Opel and Holden for advice on how to properly tune a suspension for small to medium cars.

I see what you're talking about. I got to the link where the new Buick Excelle is unmasked uncovered! I was trying to figure out what you were talking about, cause I couldn't find this link. I still am not sure how I got there [maybe there are two different posts above]. Anywho, this looks like nothing but an updated version of the current car, which as I said above and is pretty clear to all eyes, is a Japanese rip off design. Don't know when the Delta II Excelle is coming, but I would say it's not more than 1-2 years off, since we can expect a new Cobalt for th '10 MY. I just hope they know what they're doing with this small car program. Rarely has GM shown they know what they're doing, and it's certainly never been with small cars, in my lifetime. The Japanese continue to revolutionize this genre offering consumers more of what they want, amenties, quality, design, craftsmanship......all the while American car companies stay far behind. A Buick small car for America should look nothing like that "new" Excelle. With designs like the Groove, Beat, and Trax, I know somewhere in there they've got the talent that knows how to appeal to the small car crowd. It's just the question of if they are letting that talent get to the forefront. The more and more I get to know of GM, the less my faith is in them.

a small Buick would need to be aimed at the youth crowd, at least partially. I am talking the same buyers that eat up cars like the Jetta, S40, A3, lower 3-series, even Civic and upper end Corollas. 30-somethings that are empty-nesters at this point looking for something the speaks with a higher pretense for luxury. The problem is Buick is in no way capable of reaching that audience........at this point. A daring design, that made a bold statement like the Riviera concept, along with a car that keeps this market targeted would need to be made. A cheap Daewoo rip-off, Japanese car ripoff, like the current Excelle is would fail miserably and hurt Buick in the end. A delta based Excelle for the American market is not at all a bad idea. The issue is the execution. If we're looking down the line at placing Buick as a luxury brand, then we need to think about what kind of cars we're going to make for them. Maybe GM should just engineer the heck out of the platform and then let Saab design the interior and exterior, for Buick of course. They're about the only ones that get how to appeal to an upmarket youthful clientele.... The greatest problem I see with introing a Delta Excelle to the American market is how pointless an excercise. Unless China can produce a dramatically different/better [which no doubt they will, but how much better becomes the questions]; then this will only end up hurting the Buick brand. And thier are too many other segments in which they need to correct/redesign thier presence/entrants anyway. Pontiac also needs a premium compact car....and there is a clearer direction for that car to go into.....although the Buick is already developed because of China.......

the crown athlete is definitely good looking. though typically toyota sleepy. I don't think conservative execs at toy would want the crown overlapping so much with lexus product. this is clearly a solid car that could take sales from lexus' entry level cars....although many of those buyers are about the lexus prestige.

I was there and the intro of the XF was what was attracting attention, though I remember the other sedan getting a lot of attention as well; it's a classy sedan but in general the luxury carmakers are going for bold and brash, and that's what is winning hearts. Generally the section was crowded thanks to being next to LR, Audi/VW. The interior seemed decadent and perfectly styled to me. imo, also both this illustration and the XF are hot, and that's all that counts. I see Jag cues in this illustration. I don't see them as much in the XF, in person. But from the illustration, you have the lower body lines that are concave and like a coke bottle in classic Jag form, there's the sleek roof with the sloped winshield, the low roofline leading to a very small greenhouse, a rear shape that recalls former Jags, and general detailing in the front hood and fascia. The front end treatment seems to say Jaguar to me, moreso than the XK coupe. But they're hot, and I think that's what really counts. The current crop of MBs have evolved a lot and left behind a lot of MB retro cues.....

those both look really bad, and are photoshops. If Buick wants to release a premium compact car, that's fine by me. I would like it to be RWD, but if it had to be FWD to come out sooner, and be smaller, than that wouldn't be a big deal. I'd say about the current size of the Mazda3/Volvo S40 is good. It needs to look, feel, and drive premium in order to be considered premium and actually help instead of hurt Buick's image, which is obviously currently in need of several lifelines. Something dramatic is called for, like the Riviera concept.

What about the cleaner "Pontiac Kicks!" I actually think that could be pretty cool. I'm already envisioning a mean looking sedan making mean noises sniffing out the competition on the streets, fast track to the track and a different personality shows, the handling/driving menace. Pontiac has always been about menacing personality...

the Cobalt is a good car. I'm not accusing GM of getting the fundamentals wrong--with the SS SC GM got the handling/performance right, but the rest of the car is trying really hard to be a copy, and succeeds at being only an also-ran, since the others in its class were far ahead of it when it launched even.

don't you get tired of playing defense? speaking of rehash, your diatribe sounds like it's spewed from GM's own mouth... GM has made terrible decisions in the past when it comes to cars, and the market is making them pay for it. When you look back at the early '90's it was when the slide was really beginning to happen, now it's completely over, and GM barely makes a dent in the car market. It's called poor understanding of your market's main desires. All the other automakers have capitalized on what it makes to build a good car, and it has taken them far enough to ensure thier place in the American marketplace, mostly at the expense of GM I would say, since it's them who have seen so much erosion in the car segments. It 's thier lack of ideas and positive thinking, and thier insistence on resting on thier laurels and just building "updates", "targeted models" instead of leaders, innovators, different cars....

the writer did a fantastic job with this piece. even going as far to call the Solstice half-assed compared to this, bold claim and indeed with complete truth. I can see every single line written as truth, and you gotta love the trailer references. In other words, you had to be a fan of trailer parks to find most Pontiacs of the past acceptable rides to be seen in. Quality of the interior was not mentioned, unsurprisingly, guess I won't be eating my own shoe then. the car looks great in red. the interior looks as it always has, superb. the drive is flawless. performance heads and refinement detailists with a knack for unique rides will eat this car up. A totally different audience will be purchasing this G8, while traditional Pontiac fans will find great appeal in the performance and extroverted style. They will find a new dawn at Pontiac, high quality interior trimmings, real space management/efficiency, actual performance, and a restrained sense of good style The Pontiac is not all it could be in crafting a new direction and bold new design at Pontiac, and that will certainly hurt it a little. But I don't forsee incentives anytime soon.

it's your fault for spoiling yourself with those German Audis :AH-HA_wink: you're comparing cars much cheaper with more expensive ones, you know like 25k ones to 30k ones. you're lucky that gran prix is so large to save you in a car crash, compared with those tiny German cars, I could run those cars over. I find the gran prix seats and cloth fabric elegant, and the interior is just fine for daily purposes.

This reminds me of a post by O.C. referring to the development phase of the new A4, and how they weren't comparing it to the CTS. Audi seems to get every design just right, like a cool crisp swig of Hef on a hot day. I love Audi design. What can I say, the only car competing for my affection [besides my old RSX] with the C30 in my sig is the Audi A3. A fantastic design in and out. Oh so beautiful and worthy of afectation. I would love to caress it. Yes, well, it's a great looking car, and this is really what they do with every model. There is painstaking attention to detail from small car to Large SUV....it always looks right. I'm generally kinda meh on the Q7 because it's a shape that has been repeated a lot recently, and I just don't find it super attractive [compared to some of the SUVs in the class], but it hits the bullseye completely. It looks right and perfect for the class. I've seen the R8 probably 5 times already, and everytime it's definitely a stunner. The new A5 I just saw twice today, my first time seeing them on the road. What Audi is doing with the headlights is obviously attention-getting, but the rest of the car is pure class. Pure class and sport. That's what I'd use to describe most of Audi's line.

by the way, just wanted to throw this in there carbiz....there are exactly two other automakers that offer 40 mpg large compact cars....I'm not going to rub it in who they are. but paolino is completely right on this issue. the real hybrids should have been here long ago. I generally am starting to think the setup/concept of the Prius is where small cars are going, not including the hybridization. What I mean to say is the space saving technique of the hatch is where I think small cars may be headed, albeit incorporating a more traditional shape. What I'm getting at is just looking at the Prius as a car, as an idea, it's a damn good concept. It's small, not wide, not long, yet super practical. The kicker is that this car offers super mpgs. If Chevy were to make a hybrid version of the Prius, with good looks, it would also sell like hotcakes, perhaps better than Prius with the right attention to detail and the right package. Small cars are an example where GM has always chosen to follow the pack, be lazy, and adamantly refuse to innovate. Their general plan has been to shrink thier big cars, instead of focusing on what consumers want in this segment. They don't have to give up cool looks either, as many small cars are showing, premium compacts, and the advent of customization especially with Scions, Civic, etc.....All I'm saying is I'm tired of GM's lack of thinking. They refuse to look at the segment and understand what makes these cars so popular, instead focusing on the big bucks on the SUV side. Yes, I'm well aware this is an argument that has been rehased time and again. But if you really think about the concept behind cars like the Cobalt and compare it to the Civic for example, you will see where GM has always just wanted to do what's barely adequate.

but again the issue is GM's limited availability. which is stupid stupid stupid and classic GM. The figures empowah is reporting along with the limited volume empowah reported on GMT 900 hybrids [only 10,000 Tahoe or total GMT 900 hybrids for the '08 MY] are just awfully stupid moves. It seems that GM is the only automaker that consistently has these types of production constrains......seemingly on all the good stuff. and yes I also feel the malibu hybrid is woefully inadequate. that being said at least having availability of it would help me think GM is on top of things. it was this that was the first issue that came to my mind when enzl started making the call to replace Wagoner. Issues like these that perhaps other fresher CEOs would place utmost priority on, since they are after all capable of making such a sea of perception change, which is what gets the sales ball rolling and rolling.

the Astra's most compelling points will be its style and uniqueness. It's a stylish auto that I know I would be happy being seen in, since it'll be percieved as cool. And mostly people who are drawn to its looks will snap it up. From that perspective, mileage won't be all that much of a factor.

the hatch should come here as well. it's a much more attractive alternative to burgeoning families, youth, and empty nesters as it offers total interior space and cargo space greater than the sedan with better looks to boot. plus the hatch just looks more youthful.

i was comparing the track of my civic to a mid 90's explorer, the one debuting in '96. my car is just as wide or slightly wider than that explorer. I think that's a good thing in a way, definitely helps the stance of newer cars. this car looks like it will be kick ass. saab design sense [some of the best in my book], small car, premium design. I can only hope the platform/drive live up to the name and really deliver a car that can handle as well as the current GTI or better.

I do hope eventually Cadillac and GM can get it through thier heads that they don't have to compete on price and can compete on the sole virtues of the car. I do hope they can eventually have an interior in both design and materials that truly outpaces the rivals, instead of just barely meeting or being a step below in the case of the new Escalade and CTS. This will eventually lead to them offering the kinds of cars that attract the most buyers of excess and in general buyers of status symbols. the kind of buyers 6-series, CL-class, XKR currently attract. I'm hoping a Zeta big coupe with an awesome interior and exterior design does eventually make it over to Cadillac, and not in like twenty years when I've vocalized the idea twenty years before. It would be nice if Zeta were revised and a lot more weight saving materials were used.

XLR's design is behind the times both inside and out. Cars like the TT, a class below have far outclassed the XLR in terms of exterior and interior design, along with mechanical engineering. In many circles, Cadillac is non-existant, simply because it competes in two classes with credible models, entry level lux and full size lux SUV [luxury crossover definitely has a solid car from them, though the design has polarized]. I think the XLR needs a better focus. It should not seek to be as broadly targeted as it is. It's currently a boulevardier, with a safe design [for today's standards], with an outdated interior design and lower quality materials than everyone else. The features list is down low, the top has stowage difficulties and almost no cargo capacity. It's not practical, it's not exciting to look at anymore [i find the car in my sig more exciting], it doesn't handle extremely well, and it's not the most powerful. Sounds like a lot of nos and no yes's. and there's no trump card to propel the Cadillac as something special other than a now mostly conservative, sometimes dowdy exterior design. It should be a lot more risk-taking, set the tone for the dramatic Caddy design, perhaps truer to a more fluid look of the Evoq concept car. It should offer a 400 hp V6 turbocharged, as long as the engine block and car stay lightweight. The uplevel model should offer a ~500 hp NA V8. The car inside, outside, and through the drive needs to be about bragging rights. This is what should be done for an uplevel roadster model at Cadillac. It should be able to be considered among the Porsche's of the class. The Vette already exists, so there's no reason why the XLR shouldn't go on. This is not the basis for a XKR or 6-series competitor, since both of those are seen as more luxury large coupes/GTs like the Continental GT. This should be more of a serious sports car. "Corvette" should not be afraid to be matched by its Cadillac brethren in handling ability. Cadillac is after all supposed to be competing with the highest standards in the world. Different flavors, and the Cadillac will always be more expensive. But what's being discussed about these cars here is generally wrong. These are penis extender cars, but more than 80% of the audience wouldn't care if the cylinder count were 8 or 6. They want the look, the brand status, the powerful engine and great drive. They don't sit around talking about cylinder count, but more likely care about the cost of the car, and its exclusivity. Exclusivity is in tandem with desirability. They don't care if many people have it, as long as that still enforces how many people want the car. Like the S-class, or the CLS, or the SLR, or any MB around here. They are not exclusive in anyway here. But the sheer fact that these cars have a pretense of "having arrived" and being the car most anyone wants is good enough for most. The other part of it is achieving the right fashion statement. Witness the XKR's, Range Rover's success for cars that can pull brands out of the doldrums based on the right fashion statement for the right segment. The car needs to feel powerful, the sensation behind the wheel needs to be right, the NVH control needs to be high, but the right aural sounds should be present. The engine whine from a turbo, as long as it sounds good, could make a great complement to the character of this car. But it has to match the character of the overall car. Can't have a turbo whine with a car like the XKR or Lexus SC cause that is going after a complete different buyer base that values other things. But they need a focus. They need to decide if they want a sports car with no accomodations/practicality and yourthful good looks, or a boulevardier more in line with the 6-series and XKR.

The Kuga would make a great chick ute, competitor to the CR-V and Vue. It looks butch from the front and cute from the rest, and overall it's a good looking ride, inside and out. With Explorer moving to a more crossover look and a larger body, Escape has room to maintain size and the traditional SUV look, which it's doing so well with. This could be the cute ute under all those for girls looking for a nice wagon.

regal is a much more emotive and much more memorable name than crap lacrosse name. yuk. speaks much better to buick as well. it just sounds like the right name for a product. not lacrosse, that is a nasty name. [maybe i wouldn't associate it in such a negative way if the product it was attached to weren't so bad]

they didn't try or care to. i.e. the first gen and second Venture and subsequent Uplander were all built on updated but never redone versions of the same platform, the original W-body, and maybe that wasn't a safe structure for minivans to occupy?