turbo200

one thing is certain. though i have not stood next to a Vette, ZO6, or CTS-V [which are specifically the cars we care about in this conversation], I have been standing on a street when a new gen Escalade drives by and heard that same GM loud raucous boom that is typical of GM engines for years. THAT DOES NOT sound refined. I have also stood on the street hearing various other cars pass by, Porsche, BMW, Ferrari, with the sound ranging from refined and strong, mechanical to screeching exotic sounding, like a highly tuned louder motorcycle. I can only vouch for that as my experience with these performance engines and must say from that I vote the DOHC engines to be instantly, undoubtedly, way more appealing and attractive, cool in nature

I will counter with this quote from the article most people here like to editorialize to prove a point. the writer had more to say and this quote shows it was more than a "most improved" award. though there's nothing wrong with that either

I disagree, I think the Altima as a whole is very sophisticated looking package. lines up front are instantly recognizable as 350Z new Nissan look, and are the best interpretation of the Nissan theme [which I am not a fan of at all, but on 350Z and Altima it does work better and best]. At the rear it continues that sophisticated and contemporary look. The car screams something that is unique and trying hard to be different, all the while saying something about Nissan, athletic. What this comparison really proves is that the cars in this class are getting to a level of class and sophistication that means everyone can find something to love

yep. anyone can price a car under the competition. but building a car that makes the competition sweat and pricing it under them is a feat. Cadillac has to win hardcore people who see nothin but the letters BMW and blue and white colrs as truly exotic and upscale

next year will see Malibu and Traverse holding the line for Chevy. Toyota's next big releases are Corolla and Matrix and then Prius and Sienna some time after that...

truth of the matter is though smk's requirements for the CTS-V can go a little far, the reality is if the CTS-V can't blow away the current M5 and beat the next one, even at a lower price, then this CTS-V will fade quietly into the background. The way to stay in the limelight is to totally blow away the skeptics, and that would be with something radical that outperforms the current M5, in some ways. On another note, I do hope Cadillac realizes the potential it has and starts using weight savings materials [and improves on the uplevel feel of the car/interior, I'll elaborate on how Caddy didn't do it this time around in another post], while charging more for thier cars, as long as the performance and sophistication notch is moved up. The way the CTS has really been marketed against the 5-series but priced like a 3-series doesn't give me hope for Cadillac's ambition to be "high end"

a turbo 2.0 DI with around 220 hp that would keep the weight down and focus on mileage would be pretty cool something with a sports suspension and this engine with weight saving techniques and light alluminum forged wheels would make for a very interesting SS..... keep it without leather but a nice material on the inside, introduce a new color combo and you could have a very hyped up edition that could be priced just above the LTZ V6.

I really want my thoughts to be heard! from the other thread.... I'm in love. Though a couple of the effects I'm not in love with on the standard CTS are highlighted more because of the side skirts, namely the extreme beltline rise, the uninventive slash just below the doors to seperate the monotony, and the C-pillar that echoes STS. but that face is simply beautiful and mean. AND KUDOS on the detailing seperating the V from the standard. The lines/slashes next to the fog lights, all that extra definition, and the new depth to the face, the effect of it screaming out at you more than the standard are awesome, and needed, and the side skirts help. The standard car's profile will rise even more thanks to this. They can go even further with this package to make it less of a garage shop job, but they went farther then I expected. Look at GM surpassing my expectations. there was an article recently at edmunds that asked the questions why V-series sales were in the dumper. this car will prove exactly why. along with the entry price and screaming performance buyers in this price/performance ambition stratosphere are looking for real exclusivity when it comes to LOOKS. The car needs to look like a balls out performance machine. and this thing just dunked it in that department.

the reality is, in person, those cut lines are much less distracting and relevant, especially with the right color scheme. I would bet $50 that interior shot of the Malibu just above is at least 3 times more appealing in person than it appears in the photo

ah but his point was just to mention the cutlines as being distracting altogether. truth be told, this is a valid point, but one that any typical owner won't notice early on in their life with Malibu, as all the colors and good design sense will be overwhelming them. at least that's the sense I got. The cutlines were still in the LTZ when I sat in it, but I didn't care!

let it be sorry, in reference to fog

I thought that that emphatically describes us, when I read this. I laughed. I don't mind it. What's wrong with being a little obsessive? Passion is a fruit for life. What I'd like to know is how much the writer means this, was this a passive reference, or has he really checked into the conversations that go on here. I think that word is exactly us. But maybe not you :AH-HA_wink:

A Malibu coupe might be very cool, depending on how it's done. they might not choose to spend the money on this gen, and release the next one as a coupe, since it will certainly be very upgraded over the current model. The 4 cyl comparo will definitely be a true test of Malibu's strength, and the core for sales. But a nice 6 cyl LTZ Malibu really is a compelling classy ride to see and be seen in. At ~25k, if I were shopping for a sedan [which I won't be again], I would have a tough time thinking of a better ride, unless I go into used car shopping. And that's a huge accomplishment. The LTZ with the lux package really is quite a luxurious looking car. The details aren't all perfect, but there are enough great details to make up for that. As for Camry, it really is a great car. It's actually one of the best styled cars in its class, along with Malibu [which is the best, imo], and the design inside and out will have longevity, along with the rest of the car, and that is how Toyota seems to design thier cars. The car is pretty much very well engineered. I can't speak for the drive of the 6 cyl having only driven the 4, the 4 was good, the steering was too light but offered some feedback and was direct, just way too light, the suspension was okay, it wasn't a bad drive, nothing that stood out about it either. the sport suspensioned SE will be different obiously though

the sad thing is to have any appeal whatsoever to a luxury buyer today, they must feel like the car they are purchasing has a distinct name and appeal, a brand that stands for something. what is this car?

those ladies standing next to the car know they are working for scrubs of the industry

in reality a direct comparison between the uplevel Accord and STS would find a more solid feel to most of the materials in the Accord, along with an overall better finish, and a better resolved interior design. The STS just feels unfinished, in major part due to that unimaginative center stack. when a car that costs 20k less can say it has a more visually arresting design, that's saying something. of course the STS comparison was a bad one, the STS is a lameduck luxury car with a lameduck interior. it's mostly only good for comfort.

I still don't think it's necessary to believe. The only valid reason I could see someone at GM pushing for Alpha to go Chevy instead of Pontiac is for volume. BUT this would be the volume product over at Pontiac, and Pontiac has shown capability in the past to be a best seller with a compact and agressive car with the right pricing [19-26k] Grand Am. Since when has PCS proven a reliable source on anything. All I hear is I hate Holden and doomsday theories coming from him that hold no water. There is simply no room in the product lineup at Chevy for this to occupy, it would seriously overlap MAlibu and offer nothing in step with Chevy's linuep. And it's Motor Trend, when have they been right about anything. by the way nice to see you back croc

you always find creative ways to one up me

yes, hopefully we are all getting excited over nothing. though a RSX sized competitor to GTI and SI would be way cool, and a segment no other GM car competes in....

the TL shows great integration of the black plastic, as if they meant for everything to be there. the knobs/controls on the STS also have no design flare whatsoever. No comparison at all there. you in a roundabout way proved siegen's point.

The Accord interior is functional and high quality, but to get style you need to move up the price ladder. With Malibu you get quality that is acceptable, but marginal compared to Accord, however style makes up for it. The standard gray interior in the Malibu is really the only one low on style....and the Malibu has nice touches like the ambient lighting at nightime, and two tone color scheme that works really well in person. The Malibu is just surprising in that the LTZ model is ~24k and the interior/exterior is really wonderful...you get a lot of value and style for not too much, something that couldn't be said before.

I can see on the surface this seems like a poorly choiced release time, but look at all the other luxury/niche makes, and they keep churning out the gas guzzlers, and people keep snapping em up for the image. We need to face it that we are a shallow society and are seeking expression in our vehicles, which is cool, it's an okay thing. I think as long as that is the goal, seeking self-expression, then it's a good thing.Beyond that thoguh, I agree completely about the lack of sophistication in the Hummer's interior. Hummer needs to be a direct competitor with Land Rover for coolness, sophistication, ruggedness, and desirability. Right now, all Land Rovers are way cooler inside, but I think Hummer wins the battle with exterior design, except for the all mighty Range Rover and Range Rover Sport. So chock one for the H3. But H3 seriously needs an interior upgrade, it cannot continue to sell on exterior alone, because this is hurting Hummer's image. It's not being taken seriously as a boutique luxury brand, like LR. With every product intro, carmakers have a serious opportunity at redirecting the brand and building image and awareness. the H3T is a perfect opportunity to reach a base they haven't yet, the young affluent buyer, unmarried/childless, looking for an image vehicle, practicality be damned, and not looking to spend more than 30k. Hummer could look to redirect the brand in a more society-conscious image. Launch the H3T with diesels, dual-mode hybrid, or at least BAS, and a regular V8, again possibly with BAS standard. Redirecting the goals of exterior and interior design towards something that retains the level of flash but goes for even more detail-oriented expense is important. Go balls-out with the inteiror and exterior, that's what I mean by transferring the great elements from the concept. Just don't cheapen the car, inside or out, transfer the level of execution that's even on the small triplet concept cars. It's all about execution these days. that's what builds a brand.

A ~22k Hummer pickup, whether it be regular cab or double for around $25k, would probably do half or more of the volume of Colorado, regardless of acutal towing/payload capabilities. With this model it wouldn't be an extreme necessity to protect the exclusivity of the brand. It's kind of like 3-series to BMW, not a ton of exclusivity there, but because it's part of a bigger brand name of luxurious pricey cars, the 3-series itself gets elevated. I don't see why the concept H3T isn't fully producable, with a regular cab, and the complete interior trimmings it had, and exterior equipment/trimmings, for around $24k. That would the mark that would hit massive exposure. I could imagine many hip trendsetters choosing that over a similarly priced luxury crossover/small compact.

saw these at the LA auto show, I can't go on enough about how great all three are. Definitely my fave by far is the Groove, very cool looking, with the Beat being my least favorite. All three are so well done, even my least favorite still ends up being a well designed cool little car.

what are you attempting to prove?at times when Ford and GM had almost no competition, maybe 1/4 of the nameplates currently sold in today's marketplace, they had a command of a much smaller market? like GTP said, that GM sold that many Malibus in the '60's is totally irrelevant.