balthazar

'23 Olds Touring, burgandy, beautiful, parked. '58 Ford 2-dr wagon, white, exc condition, made up & vanity plated as 'Ecto 2' (will try and get a pic tomm).

A car's only original once, so they say. And if it's in VG shape to begin with, yeah; it's hard to justify a swap... unless you just HAVE to have your vision. My B-59 was a $500 'old used car' when I bought it... but regardless- I need it to move.

Here's to a speedy recovery for Dad. I enjoy living 'car life' vicariously thru you, GMTG, as I don't forsee a new purchase for myself for many many years.... Here's hoping they mess up your contract and slip the decimal over 1 place to the right.

'41 Plymouth coupe, red, perfect, crusing right behind a '50 Ford coupe, black, excellent, crusing. '62 Chrysler Windsor 4-dr sedan, lt blu, waiting on a friend. Pair of '64 Ford Galaxie 2-dr hardtops, 1 primer, 1 black.

Everything is illegal to mere mortals here in Jersey, but I've set off my own show 2 years with contraband stuff (tho not this year). The requirements to obtain a permit are --of course-- luducrious. I need some more contraband stuff for next year! Watched the local small-town show with the brood, low-key works for me.

One thing for a while: a factory fan guard. Fan seems rather exposed underhood (no shroud), and it might aid in cooling a bit (I have an AL big-tube radiator anyway). Seems uncommon- not sure if it's an A/C piece (10% of production), or early production or what. EDIT -- OK- just tried BP's DVAP link- nice site; too many use the 'parts request' form- waste of time. I see the guard in question on the last B-59, I'll have to get a price. Thanks BP! And you're right 66; VERY picked over cars- someone needed a rear window surround, wow.

Were those those waffle/honeycomb-esque ones? Agreed: pretty bad.

The electric re-powering of an unloved late '50s Lincoln doesn't bastardize it by mixing lineages. The re-powering of a much-loved Buick with a mercedes or bmw mill is blasphemy. I have repowered my B-59... with another Buick mill. All in the family. You are free to do as you please here, of course- I wouldn't really put a 'hit' out on your ass, but if you want a V-12 bmw (this is going to get better MPG than the 364? Really ??), buy a V-12 bmw.

What, no pics ??!!?? Recover fast !!

The irrational GM bashers. Seriously, tho this is silly: the worst thing for me is getting into the game with the GM cars I own/have owned AFTER the factory supply of parts was gone and AFTER the hobby pushed the prices of NOS into the clouds.

66stang - >>"I enjoy cars like a late 70's TA because I remember double dating in them... I enjoy cars like a 67 Grand Prix convertible or a 57 Olds Convertible because they are an utter work of art..."<< Great analysis. On my part, my attachment to late '70s stuff thru experience still only holds a very small bit of sentimentality for me because I had already immersed myself in '50s-60s iron- so I knew the difference first-hand. hyperv6 - >>"You have you're opinion and I have mine. I also am not the only one to have the same opinion. I do not attack your opinion and respect it even if I do not agree. So if you if you would stop addressing this we will never come together on it again. To agree to disagree goes a long way."<< I am also not alone in my opinion, as if the above posts didn't point that out. There is a small contingency that seeks --consciously or subconsciously-- to 'extend the blame' farther & farther back in history, as if they are 'discovering' something new; I've watched this as a guardian of history over the years & decades: 'the '80s sucked', 'the '70s sucked', 'the '60s sucked', and just recently Tony Swan of M/T stating GM 'was having problems in the late '50s'..... it just gets so tiresome and predictable, but it keeps going on. If no one stands up for the opposing view (I'll not say "facts" here for diplomatic reasons), that... version of the past will creep back into the '40s, '30s and right up to 1908 RE GM. At some point it becomes laughable, and IMO, it long ago already has. And I would have said nothing here, but I felt you addressed me with the "...my friend..." statement. >>"The Pontiacs from he 70's were not as good as many think they were. The other cars were just that bad that Pontiac had the better cars "<< And this is exactly the criteria to use : no one judges 2009 cars legitimately vs 1999 cars. Pontiac of the '70s CANNOT legitimately be judged against Pontiac of the '60s, it must be judged against the rest of the '70s pack... and in that measure, Pontiac was doing 'more right' than anyone else WRT performance, esp Chevy. And you said exactly that right here : >>"the TA did ok in the early 70's but did not take off till around 1976 with mass appeal. It did it on the help of a Movie and the fact it had little to no compitition. The Z28 was gone and the Mustang was a Pinto rebody. Lety alone the Vette was a shadow of it self with a low power engine and Vega steering wheel." Pontiac deserves full credit for making that pop culture connection (Smokey), for keeping the T/A when Chevy dropped the Z28, for keeping big CI motors when Chevy dropped their big blocks, for pushing the 'Euro' sports sedan, for continuing to be the source for performance in the new car market when all others drifted into the ditch. They're not my choice in cars, but I can still recognize & give credit where due; that in the dark, dank days of the '70s, Pontiac was still where it was at. The product reflected that and the sales confirmed it.

>>"balthazar, if I get ever a chance to go out east I'll buy you a steak and enjoy your company if your willing."<< A free meal- I'm there! Seriously; anytime. You can have the DeLuxe Balthazar Shop Tour (which allows you to bypass the gift shop thru the side door). First & last time I was in OH was on the way to school in Detroit many moons ago.

I can agree with some aspects of PMD 'beginning to lose it' in the '70s, yes, still; Pontiac had a strong image, strong sales, was healthy, and still trying (SD, GA, CA, Firebird/ T/A) thru the '70s, but the cars are just not my cup of ethyl.

Finished up at $6700. Buddy of mine heavily into Chevelles (he tracked down his father's '67 SS convert and he bought it back- resto almost done) says this is worth a solid $25-30K as a restored non-SS, but maybe more.

>>"My friend GM started to fail in the 1960's."<< Let's not get into this round-about again. We evaluate PMD's & GM's history thru different eyes, and we're NOT going to come together on this one.

Seems like a nice guy, but he did not have my B-59 part. Guess I won't hold that against him. He holds open houses- I would go if I was in the state.

Thanks 4 the link, BP. >>>"The Division took the idea to the Fisher Body Division for costing. Naturally, as in the regular station wagon bodies produced, the greater volume used brought lower prices. Since Pontiac shared the Chevy wagon, Fisher wanted to know if Pontiac management was interested in the Nomad body."<<< Fascinating : we really know just the cursory basics on how GM operated. I think most assumed Fisher did as it was told, but here Fisher is pitching a 'Safari' at Pontiac, and having a large hand in setting the price of these models. This is the type of info I would love to learn the details about, the heirarchy, the money flow, the legality, etc. There was a LOT more to it that most people think.... was it 'justified' or a byproduct of years of complexity ?? I doubt this degree of detail will be revealed...

Whatthe??? 5 or 6 B-59s ?? {sending parts request...} Cool, this guy & I roll in the same gutters. j/k.

"Global" is not the answer WRT profitability. toyota is global yet could exist on the U.S. market alone- 75% of toyo's profits are made in the U.S. traditionally. They could shutter the rest of the world's dealers and live here comfortably (if well managed). IMO- GM has too often 'fixed what wasn't broken' - management at GM always changed too fast; DeLorean was PMD GM for only 4 years before being muscled over to Chevy. Far too much product-wise in GM's history can be linked to too-swift management changes. But the beginning of the end for Pontiac came with the Corporate engine decree ('81 ??). So much had been accomplished on the back of Pontiac Engineering, and when that was cancelled, the soul of the Division gave up. That, and the discontinuance of a Divisional General Manager (with authority) saw the end in the distance. Pontiac did very well in the '70s market, carrying the torch for performance thruout the decade while Chevy became entangled in the bad legacy of the Vega & Chevette, allowing the Corvette out the door with 180 HP. After that, Pontiac's drive was seemingly volume....

RE: the motor - too much looks too new to be the original, IMO. Decal / air cleaner are meaningless, but the head & water pump design look post mid-'60s vs. pre. Also running an alternator vs. a generator (switch-over was '61 or '62 IIRC). Have to check the block & date codes. Car looks fantastic, IMO, beautiful project start. Paint looks VG, too. God, I love these P-57s !! Safari is right behind the Bonne & the SC convert for desirability. I would guesstimate --if the rest of the car is inline condition-wise with the pics, that a fair asking price would start between $15K & $20K... but as the '57 is so much rarer.. maybe more. Have seen a 'show-winning' '56 w/ aftermarket wires & a 400/TH400 asking $42K...

>>"Of course it's easy if you've seen one before. "<< You're right, of course. Just saying it's very distinctive for the era. If we saw that little of a '55 Chevy, this thread would only be starting...

Yup- it's either a '54 or '55 Kaiser. >>"Shame they didn't make the thin-window B-pillars drop down as to make it a REAL deal 4-door hardtop. "<< Or... like the '38 Buick 4-dr Sport Phaeton convertible I was looking at recently, make the center window/panel removable...

Last 2 weeks~ '54 Merc hardtop, black roof, deep burgandy body, lowered, flawless, '70 Pontiac GTO convert, dark blue, exc driver, for sale, '70 Buick GS455 convert, beautiful, pulling out of parking lot, '70 Buick Skylark, 20" rims, real nice otherwise, parked, '75 Pontiac Gran Ville convert, decent shape, dark red, motoring quick, '85 ? Cadillac Cimarron, molded headlights, VG shape, motoring up Rt 1, for sale. Saw some pics; my buddy is chasing down another '59 Star Chief out in WY.

Good Grief: easy one.

>>"You always have to be a curmudgeon don't you?"<< Only when real answers are replaced with marshmellow fluff. :rotflmao: >>"I know very well why GMC was kept..."<< Then why the fallacy of suggesting otherwise, especially to a former collegue? Wouldn't doing so undermine one's credibility? >>"Perhaps the new Government owners will force their hand on that issue..."<< Perhaps- look what they did for Pontiac! :rotflmao: