balthazar

>>"GM closed at $9.98 per share Ford closed at $4.36 per share Just for reference Toyota closed today at $91.40"<< >>"Just for reference, what was GM at a year ago?"<< >>"$38.02 July 2, 07. Ford--$9.64 then."<< Ooops; forgot toyota !! : $127.78 -- July 3, '07. GM is down 74% and actual share price decrease is $28.04. toy is down 29% but actual 'share' price decrease is $36.38. If one bought 1000 shares of both, the toyota 'stockholder' would have lost $8340 more that the GM holding. If one bought the same $ amount of shares, the GM stockholder would have lost $17199 more (on 1000 shares) than the toyota holding. Depends on your criteria of comparison. But without question; yes - Ford & GM's stock prices suck- glad for my sake I didn't buy any back when it was in the mid $30s and it was getting talked up here.

>>"You HONESTLY think the Toureg gets confused with the Cayenne? Really?"<< If the person is not any sort of car enthusiast; yes I do. Not only are the pair very obviously similar, neither is unique or remotely eye-catching. That's my take. If design has any sort of weight in this segment.... Mmmm, boy! ( ) OR:

>>"It's a look that I associate with the now misused term coupe."<< And well you should- this has one thing in common with a 2008 Corvette- both correctly identified as coupes. After enough bombardment of 'fast-n-loose' marketing RE "coupe", I am more & more pushed to embrace the strict physical definition instead. An aquaintance is picking up a '41 Plymouth 2-dr... not sure yet if it's a coupe or 2-dr sedan. I'm supposed to sell off some spare parts- this car is a driver tho. '41 Plymouth 2-drs are among my favorite period MoPars. Here's a 'shelled' one a buddy owned a few years back; I was falling in love as is, love the truncated fenders and this one had mad patina. Ain't the proportions F'in perfect?? :

An X-Body Ventura ???

I like the Denali XT generally, but in the GM video, the designer talks about 'functionality and the appearance of being a truck". Midgate aside (haven't seen/operated one in person, so I'll not pass judgement) a what-appears-to-be 4-foot bed does not induce the adjective "functional"... and maintaining the 'appearance' of being a truck over actually being a truck does not inspire confidence for me. Handling? In a truck? OK- but don't compromise anything else that makes a truck functional to do it, K? How big is the XT, anyway- no doubt the 24'? wheels are throwing off the visual proportions.

Incorporating production-quantity muddies the significance, IMO. What would anyone do with this information; tailor their vehicle choices based on parts content.... once enough of the model year has past that production is pretty much established? It's also questionable that the parts content can include Canadian parts, but Canadian assembly is an automatic disqualifier. This combination of criteria is a 'so-what' in my book.

>>"Tell that to seasonal fruit farmers in California and Florida, or many of the other awful jobs that are mainly immigrant-staffed in this country. "<< So those workers are stripped of their passports/ paperwork, forced to live in hideous shelters at exorbitant rents, forced to work 60-80s/wk, forbidden to leave company property, literally petrified to talk to any outsiders or even identify the name of where they work, and deported if they open their mouths to complain about even the most minor issue? Do you really believe that goes on in this country? Do you have any condemnation of toyota's practices, or can you only lamely redirect in an attempt to heap more blame on American companies ??

>>"...a pickup based on a unibody architecture which would be lighter, handle better, and be more fuel effecient than the BOF trucks..."<< An assumption, not a given. fridgeline has BOTH a unibody shell and BOF construction in order to handle any sort of work ( ). There is always a balance struck between efficiency & capability with trucks- the big trucks are counted on to work beyond what their spec'ed out to do- undercutting that market advantage by stamping the frame out of sheetmetal-guage C-channel & welding in to the floorpans is NOT going to improve the product. IMO, GM is going the right route by offering powertrain efficiency (DOD) without compromising the truck itself. Smaller, mid-size trucks, on the other hand, have far lesser consumer demands- there a UB may have merit.

Where do these sort of despicable, deplorable conditions exist in the U.S.? That's right; they don't. Since when did japan revert to being a 3rd world backwater (no excuse) ? That's right; it hasn't... or so we were led to believe. Yet here we have outright slave labor within their own borders. It's 2008, not 1938- how can a company banking billions a quarter possibly explain this ?

This is no surprise to me at all : there have been occasional glimpses over the years that toyota -and many other japanese companies- has a careful spit-shined hide covering a fetid, slimy underbelly. No celebs are going to speak up- they're not smart in general and they're primairily concerned with image over everything else- nothing is real to them. They'll poo-poo the reality of toyota's human trafficing to bask in the perception of being 'green'. It's all bullsh!t & meaningless on that front. toyota has so much cash... their cars, their factories, their dealers, their benefits should be world-class, second to none. They should set the standard for even the highest stratosphere of auto brands- definately in the area of workers rights & conditions- not terrorizing, robbing & brutalizing them. You can be damned sure that if this was a U.S. company, all we would be hearing is 'boycott' and 'punishment', but even in the above clip, the attitude sounds more like 'let's "encourage" toyo to treat the workers better (meanwhile keep buying all their products non-stop)'. Par for the course.

Basically I don't want him visiting 'bad' sites- I respect his privacy otherwise- he's a good kid. He's not especially computer-saavy- turning it off in AIM is likely to be effective for a while. So the only way his profile can access the web thru AIM is via received hyperlinks? Wierd. I'll poke around in AIM.

I trust him, and I understand curiosity, but I don't need to go military on him either. Can I block hyperlinks for a particular user only?

If we're going to compare 2 recent, similar-product brands that are solidly in the red (saab hasn't also cost literal billions since 1989?), I still feel Saturn has more potential (no; not 'promise') than saab. If Saturn takes an uptick and maintains it; yes: it may take years to ROI, but if it can move into the black forthwith, I'll take it. This is besides the issue of continuing to take money from the core divisions, and also aside from the CAFE issue.

The government is into 'private matters' up to their proverbial ear lobes- never stopped them before. But the future well-being of one of the world's largest manufacturers and one of this nation's largest employers falls into the area of 'public' interest, IMO. I see no negative side to guaranting loans for GM, should that come to pass, someone detail how that would be tangibly 'bad', please.

Nice turnout (LOT of Chevys, tho ). Merc looks perfect.... still calls for a chop. '58 Impy needs a 1-2" drop- riding like a Jeep. Otherwise gorgeous. One wonders why GM felt the need to build a 5th 'badge-engineered' version of a '58 coupe when they already had a Cadillac, Buick, Olds & Pontiac 'version', ya know ?? :P :P

>>"Satrun isn't likely to ever give GM any ROI for the billions it has already cost the company."<< I disagree. With the climate of the present & near future, Saturn is positioning itself to sit well with that (european-esque, practical). If hybrids and fuel efficiency continue to be prioritized, the potential is considerable. Tho saab -another money pit- also builds 4-cyl FWD sedans, it is crippled by preconceived notions of what a 'saab should be', rendering the brand unable to reinvent itself in any way if neccessary, like, you know: to ever update styling or something trivial like that. >>"... it should never have been given to Saturn at the expense of the Solstice's exclusivity."<< Agreed 100%. But I'm one of the few who immensely prefer the unique design of the Solstice vs. the much more mainstream look of the Sky- no vote for a Sky = Solstice MCE here.

The Traverse is no more a 'rebadge' than -say- the altima/maxima... or the toureg/cayenne- pairs you interestingly never hear that reference made to. >>"This pricing strategy helps preserve the Sloanian walk-up from Chevy to Saturn to GMC to Buick."<< Idiots!

Main machine here at the Balthazar Ranch is a Dell running Windows XP. As such- there are 'user profiles' so you can log on to each desktop- there are 4 of us, each with his own, and both the adults have password-protected profiles.... and only those 2 profiles are set-up to access the internet. My 2 sons' profiles cannot access the internet and they don't have our profiles' passwords. In due dilligence, I try and keep an eye on the older son's activities (he's 14), esp when on the 'net. He DOES have AIM. Can any internet-based pages be accessed thru AIM, because he's looking at some sort of text and what looks like harmless, amateur-level B&W drawings... but they are not stored on his profile anywhere, and I cannot find any activity date-wise sourced from the HD. I have not asked directly yet, because I have not determined what it is up close yet. Anyone have any knowledge about accessing things thru AIM, because I have no idea otherwise how he could be looking at what's obviously sourced from somewhere abroad (vs, his having created it). Thanks.

MM; in re-reading the below: >>"...even if an increasing part of it was to satisfy your own interests."<< I want to clarify that I, in no way, meant that as a slight towards you; it reads that way to me this time around. Poor choice of wording on my part. I will order a copy also, curious to see how the volumous topic was handled, and of course; always eager to see more concept pics. >>"...David North <retired> ..."<< North did the conceptual & influential sketch of the 'Flame Car' that rather faithfully turned into the '66 Toronado. I am always reassured when GM designers are involved in these sort of historical tomes, rather than just regular jerks like me. Still pinning prime hopes on a complete chronological listing of XP numbers. Ironically, I was just re-pondering the identities of XP-1 thru XP-7 this week (XP-8 is the '51 LeSabre, XP-9 is the '51 XP-300). '38 Y-Job may well pre-date the 'XP' catalog, '41 FuturLiners likely the same (plus restorers have verified they've never seen XP numbers associated with the FLs).... Cadillac had a radical steel prototype being tested, the '46 "C.O." (not sure what that stood for), that's a possibility... ...other than that... I cannot place any and I wonder if they were stillborn projects that were never publicized....

>>"Well, GME wants cadillac to be an Audi competitor. (Which will never happen)"<< Correct me if I'm wrong here, but doesn't audi have at least 1 FWD vehicle in their 'portfolio'? Or did very recently?

Note the film & narrator at 1:00 in the '63 vid : "13 Pontiacs, 10 Fords, 8 Chevys, 6 Mercs, 5 Dodges, 2 Plymouths." 13 Pontiacs... and it looks like they're racked 1-5 to start. The F'ing good old days, long gone. But note, Pontiac, written off by some by '54, was murdering 'em on the road courses, tracks & drag strips only 7-8 years later, not to mention having a hammerlock on 3rd in U.S. sales. Given an enpowered GM, Pontiac's 'rebel' streak wrote chapters and chapters of history. Too bad that's "no longer possible" for some undoubtedly stupid reason. Parnelli's big Merc was a formidable machine, without question. Also one of my favorite Mercs- '64. I owned a '64 Park Lane Marauder 390 for a short while- cool car.

"based on" ? What- no "badge-engineered" ???

>>"It's GM design, not Pontiac design, or Buick design, or Chevy design, etc, There are only GM Global Design Centers. Same with engineering, it's GM Global Engineering. There are no more divisions, there is only GM, who manages brands."<< What happened with Cadillac Engineering, announced as reinstated about 2-3 years ago ???

>>"I like the '59 too, and was it the first appearance of the classic split grill? I wonder what the story was behind the '60 deviating from it and then it was back on the '61 and then forever."<< Pontiac underestimated the positive response to the '59 grille; '60s were all locked in- not enough time to get a split grille back on until '61. >>"An interesting little thing about these {1970} Pontiacs, see those inboard round outlets beside headlights? I'm almost positive, those were actual horn grills!"<< Well, the horns were NOT positioned right behind then, no. Sure; some of the horn's sound would go thru them (they were definately functional- Dad had a '70 Cat), but they were not neccessary for horn volume. I believe they were put there merely to break up some of the space between the headlights & grille. >>"Pontiac Phantom 1973"<< The Phantom was Mitchell's last 'showcar', but this was '77, not '73. His boss Howard Kerhl refused to allow it to be shown @ the '77 GM Director's show @ Milford- infuriating Mitchell. It's a 'pusher' on a GP chassis, still survives.

Nothing in those pics, or in other gallerys around the web, that makes me drool, that's for sure. Story has been debunked elsewhere- the collection and how they got there is real, but the real estate portion of the story is urban myth.