balthazar

Sure; those that are NOT under 9,000-lb vehicles.tmp- you're correct on the deVille vs. Eldo.

Chevy 'Caribe' 4-dr convertible, XP-834.

So the alternative is to not only do absolutely nothing whatsoever, on any front, but instead announce that everything from the American Industry is substandard & uncompetitive??? Effectively slam/flame the largest nationwide employeer in the last 100 (98) years?This must be your president; because he sure as sh!t isn't mine.

GM bodies of the same style number (this one a xx69 share the same greenhouses, but the 4-dr hardtops and the 4-dr sedans have different backlights in this era (pre-'65). 'Radio' closer to steering column is heat/vents (A/C is pretty rare in '64 PMDs, but would be in the same spot).

GMC= >>"I knew someone would start flaming me..."<< You're not getting flamed; you're being corrected. You must at least understand the problem/situation before you can offer 'solutions'. >>"heres distinct yet similar. The Bel air and Cheiftain had similar details, Ie.extra/deleted trim,The same body and chassis, but also distinct details, like the engine,and the cheif,Bowtie, grille and bumper differnences."<< They do NOT have the same bodies and they do NOT have the same chassis's. Glass interchanges, nothing else does. Again, this is the basis for a lot of what you're stating, and it's incorrect. >>"and there are two differnent types of rebadges: The *80s* kind... and the *Classic* kind, where the same platform and body is used for a variety of cars, but there are engine and actual differnences that would compell me to buy a Pontiac over a Chevy!"<< There is no readily recognized "Classic rebadge", either in definition or practice. You're misusing the term to the detriment of your thesis. This is problematic with those who assume GM's recent problems extend all the way back to 1908. Like I said, don't make assumptions on GM's history or vehicles unless you research reputable sources first, elsewise you can expect exasperated responses. PS: It was the Buick "Fireball 8"; Buick used inline 8-cylinder engines, not inline 6s.

I'd like to see a regular cab Sierra on the Crew Cab/short bed chassis. This would allow a 9.5' bed.

I go to a barber shop. Same guy's (or another there) s'been crafting my faux-pompadour for 14 years.

Intriquing. I've owned two '64 4-sedans, one a Ventura trim, in addition to my GP. This one is blissfully rust-free and straight. The mirror on the fender is the remote one; non-remotes were on the door. Standard hubcaps (not DeLuxe) and 1-spd wipers (not opposed-blade 2-spds) point to a rather spartan equipment level, but these are great riding & drivling cars. 'blu: I had that comment ('2 radios?') from some kid once. Was it you?

God, I hate modern interiors. plasticplasticplasticplasticplastic, plastics are the cheapest material used in car interiors; synthetic chemicals squirted into a mold. Bakes & brittles in the sun, scratches, gouges & cracks under contact, irrepairable, even smells like &#036;h&#33;. An awful, necessary evil. People desperate to validate the stomach-lurching quantity of 1000 lbs in every car use atom-splitting judgement calls on levels of 'gloss' & 'texture'... it's simultaneously pathetic & laughable. {spits}.

I am past weary regarding these radical armchair diatribes. 'Everything is wrong and here's all the solutions'- fffftt! First off, "GMC", you're miles off on the historical points: >>"Rebadging goes back to the 30s, when Ford and GM discovered the economics of using one platform, with modifications for cars."<< {How to start......} nothing regarding 'platform' (anachronistic term when talking about this era) sharing was discovered in the '30s; GM Divisions each usually only had one chassis from inception to.... roughly 1960. Cadillac and the divisional 'dawn' years may be the pointed exceptions. And it's NOT "rebadging". Rebadging is designing a vehicle, then changing the emblems and a few minor details (grille textures, taillight lenses). Nothing close to this practice was going on at GM until the '70s. >>"The Pontiac Cheiftain and Chevrolet Bel Air were similar in body and platform..."<< No 'platforms' here. Maybe a few more similarities than those between a Bel Air & a Galaxie.... but there's no point here. >>"...but had differnent engines and distinct, yet similar, styling! "<< 'Distinct yet similar'? O-ooookkkkkkk....... >>"Its lifespan was not supposed to be much longer than a few years. It was created to be below Chevrolet, but above the now defunct Oakland brand. When Pontiac began outselling Oakland, Oakland was phased out and Pontiac replaced Oakland. "<< You have not researched this; why are you posting it? There was no planned limit on Pontiac's lifespan. It was originally slotted to be right where it is- above Chevrolet (& below Oakland). >>"The Grand Am? Nope, just a stripped down Monte Carlo...."<< Sorry, Camino, I can't continue!! Good night!

Oh, and the Kappa sibs looks cool, loungin around together, being all tough & aloof, just waiting to get out on the road and hand miata's their asses. Anyone want to see more of the plant (such as via terraserver.microsoft.com), it's at 810 Boxwood Rd.

F'ing Amen.Look at the steering wheel in the posted Bentley pic- sickening for $300K+. You can get the same basic thing in a sentra-class box. For you, FLy: XP715: It is the '39 Zephyr coupe that has the dash you're thinking of. Sedan has a different one, not sure what other year coupe's had the same. Can't find a pic quick. There's a top-shelf yellow custom that came out a few years back, it's been in a car polish print ad, it had the dash you're talking about. Awesome pick, BTW.

My Buick was built in Wilmington- neat to see the plant.

Sure you did.

Razor- I actually uploaded the Chrysler AstroDome last night, just didn't get around to posting it. Here ya go, this is a '60: The '63 Turbine does indeed have one of the coolest consoles in the world, but the smallish guages & lack of shiny bits left me less than amorous about the rest. Still good, just not outstanding as the console is. I sat in car #18. Pic I posted earlier with the speedo in the steering hub: '54 Lincoln Futura. Some of you might know it better in it's 2nd life: the original '66 Batmobile. Airflow/Airstream had some of the coolest details: the vent windows opened conventionally, but when closed, the entire side window AND vent window roll down into the door. Ingenious. BV-

Alternative, no obstructions:

I would not question/debate Jag's racing successes.

Cad-amino ('76 Mirage):

If getting attention and free food/test drives is your intention, then yes: you're "doing something right". After all, it works for Paris Hilton. If instead you are interested in providing a service to the consumer, your reader, then sorry, you're not. Almost sad, completely expected. At least it's out in the open.

I don't think any manufacturer ever used an 'upsidedown' 3-spoke; guess nearly everyone has fallen subject to 'form over function' at one point or another. 2-spoke would be better, or either a 'lazy' 3-spoke or a 'lazy' 4-spoke, where the upper 2 spokes laid lower. Divide the pie evenly and you get obstruction.

Early plastic in the Buick shots is likely Bakelite, a dense, high-quality-feel synthetic (then again- it may be soybean-based: Ford was doing it). Nothing since is as nice and rich- I laugh when reviews praise the quality of -say- lexus plastics. Ferrari dash is cool & purposeful, tho you can't help but wonder if the wheel was mounted 180-degrees from where it is, the guages would be perfectly unobscured. Reminds me of the Cadillac LeMans dash: The '32 Cadillac & '37 Packard clusters are gorgeous.

Here's a tip: it isn't useful OR entertaining. Consider blazing a new path; the Informative Style, where the quantity of factual data & hands-on reality of the car under your ass crowds out ridiculous over-statements and endless comparisons with a baker's dozen of other cars that have no bearing on the one you're driving. You might just insure your longevity; the backlash against modern automotive 'journalists' has never been stronger and it's still growing.

I believe Jag used those same brochure pics in print ads; the red one against the 'copters sure looks familiar. I have a small quantity of vintage Jag print ads in my collection. RE: values- no doubt the big ticket Jags are the models 'where Jag came from': the XK-120, -140, -150 and the E-types, not the saloons. Some Buicks of the period hit very high numbers; the '58 Limited convertible (836 built) in #1 is often in the $90K range, but lower series are no where near that. I know you feel I'm "trying to wear you down", but that's completely wrong. I'm just talking cars here. I question to learn, not instigate. If the 3.8 in the Mark X developed 265, why did Jag bother enlarging it to 4.2 only to develop the same HP? Just curious- not trying to re-write your books. Seems like a waste of precious engineering budget, unless increased TRQ was the objective with the cars growing larger & heavier. Personally- I had only a fledgling interest in muscle cars; I have always gravitated towards the F/S versions: Pontiac 2+2 over GTO, Buick Wildcat 2x4 4-spd over GS400, Chrysler 300-F over Hemi Belvedere, etc. Performance is always appealing, but style & substance is just as much so for me. Camaros & Novas? Never been interested: far too common. 2G Riv and 1G Toro?- always admired them and it feels like I've always known about them.

The '66 version of the Pontiac 'Camino' is based on the full-sized line (that's the '66 GP nose). I like it a lot, I think it works stylistically, tho not business case-wise. Would prefer owning the '59 by far, tho.

razor= >>"you dont understand my point.... understand now?"<< Yes, but that's a rather large leap to say that engineering R&D from the '60s NOT making it to showrooms THEN is responsible for the shape fo things going on TODAY; too large a leap for me. LOT of other factors involved here..... sixty8= >>"I know a certain someone on this Forum who has a complete set of these in his garage... I've seen them with my own eyes."<< I think I know who.... sending PM...... >>"...no interuptions in the production line. Just like a custom built Cadillac Opera Coupe, a Hearse or Limo where the sheetmetal is getting rearranged but the chassis/motor is untouched."<< None of those listed above were built by Cadillac or on Cadillac assembly lines. >>"I wonder if this one ('59 Pontiac 'ElCamino') ever had a working name? "<< Doesn't appear so. The survivor has "Catalina" on the rear quarters and uses a Safari tailgate, so it also has "Safari" on it, but this was a proposal by Pontiac Engineering, so a final name or even a working name was not reached at that point. PMD GM nixed the project in view of dwindling Ranchero/ElCamino sales. Hopefully it'll be on the hobbyist show circuit at some point; it's been a 30-yr resto process. The '80 Pontiac 'Camino' proposal was a front-clip update of a '78 proposal, where it got the '80 GA nose. >>"You mean NASCA scoops right? The ones that look like this"<< No- Pontiac called them NACA, after the predecessor to NASA. But you got the scoop shape spot on: The factoid states no functional NACA hoods were sold, but plenty of non-functional ones were. I believe opened scoops failed to meet fed drive-by noise limits, and this is right around the time the Pontiac shakers were sealed off ('74??). Also note: there was a proposal for a '75 GTO, based again on the Ventura that recieved the new chassis for '75. Plans called for a similar set-up to the '74: 350 power, shaker scoop, etc. Pics are not known to exist, perhaps an actual prototype wasn't built.