Chicagoland

Well, one thing is the Sonata is a POS!!! Also, they are NOT "the next Toyota" at all as some no nothings claimed a few years ago. Alabama's auto industry is next for a 'loan'!

"For at least a couple years Chrysler was doing well while Ford and GM were not." No, it just SEEMED that way. They were hiding all the problems with smoke and mirrors from the 300 mania. Even if Damiler didn't buy them in 1998, they'd still be on the ropes. Their so called 'beautiful cars' from the 90s, LH, JX, and Neons were total junk, and drove customers away in long run. The Mopar fans like to blame DX, but the company long has been 3rd string. As far back as the early 50's Mopar was in trouble, and again in early 60s, late 70s, early 90s, on and on. It was a matter of time when the 'canary in coal mine' would finally die. And the 09 F-150 is way better than the Ram. Mopar fans just want to be different than Ford vs. Chevy. But these days it isn't just 3 makers. So, just 'being different' isnt enough to survive. Have to have actual good products, and not just 'halo' cars. The muscle cars of the 60s/70s did nothing to keep Chrysler from near bankrupcy in 1970's, and the LX did nothing this century to help.

Now the Honda worshipers will have no bragging points. Supposedly the RWD RL, if it was even coming, was going to 'save Acura'.

Another "Build it" car [see Chevy SSR] that would have sat and sat in lots. A few may have sold the 1st month for over MSRP, then after, just like the Holden GTO, only with heavy discounts. And all the 'I'd have bought one' people were not willing to pay $36K, they'd buy used in 10 years, "if their wives let them". But, it is not 1970, and one can't 'wait' for new 'El Caminos' to depreciate to their budgets. Even actual Pontiac dealer admitted to Autmotive News that they didnt really want to try to stock and sell it.

"Saturn should be marketed to those who consider themselves to be "individualists" or "nonconformists"." Then what is Pontiac, Buick going to get? Non-conformists get Japanese or no car at all. Saturn's extra cost for the 'special buying experience' is not worth anything. And the bath taken at resale makes the costs even worse. Try to trade in an Astra in 5 years, bet it will be worth same as used Deawoos.

L whatever was an outdated POS and they bragged about the 'Opel pedigree'. Should have just given Saturn Olds's cars, renamed. Intrigue, Alero, Aurora, etc. the whole BS about 'I wont set foot in Chevy deaelr, but will Saturn' makes no sense, since Saturns are the same quality vehicle. The SL's just had plastic panels, not "way better" than Cavalier's of the day. I see more old J cars running than SL's, FWIW. "Saturn was about building an American car that could compete with the imports." Well, no need for a halo brand, since the new Malibu is rated "A" by CR. GM can build good cars, and people dont have to pay more for a 'special experience' at a dealer.

With what $$ to 'expand Saturn'? GM CANNOT afford to have 8 full line brands, period.

This shows that it is not "Detroit builds cars people dont want" that the cable talking heads repeat non stop. it is that no one is buyng and even the sainted T-H are not getting footprints in showrooms.

"My tax dollars are about to be shuffled off to China" but then many people have no problem buying Chinese made products to 'live better'.? Conservative decry helping Detroit as 'socialism', yet have no problem at all sending jobs, $$ to China, which is still a communist country.

Today is the big day. Some makers are already posted on prnewswire.com On Detroit News website, says GM down 31% from Dec 08. Not as bad as Toyota, down 37%.

"Note the GM add where the guy looks twice that they are Saturns. We kno what that ad is about but they still do not put a name on the models in advertising. They need to sell the cars a Saturn models and not just Saturn. Selling Saturn as Saturn worked when you only had two cars. Today they have a lot more to show " That is problem #1, younger buyers still think the SL's are for sale, and that they were "Saturns" only car. The ad doesn't mention Aura, Astra, etc. and that it's a full line make. Other issue is the 'dweeb/nerd/geek' buyer image of someone deathly afraid to negotiate a price, so they buy 'one price'. Even if it is too high. Why pay more for an Aura, just for 'touchy-feely' treatment, when a Malibu is a better price. And there are plenty of Chevy dealers that have good customer service. Saturnfans.com fans are just not supporting the brand enough to get good sales #'s. More 'Saturn dweebs' with a beat up SL are looking else where and maybe they "grew a pair" and now can negotiate for a price!

Biggest problem is people are dumb and believe what they want to believe. Will rip on car industry and ignore all the issues with banking and stocks. Ignorance is bliss. And, still, the grudge is from a car from 30+ years ago. The issues with car industry isn't about 'cars people want to buy', its people cant get loans to buy anything!!!!!!!!!

"WHY DO CROSSOVERS HAVE LESS CARGO ROOM THAN STATION WAGONS OF 15 YEARS AGO?????!!!" 1994 is now 15 years ago and most wagons were on the way out. GM B body and A body were an old man's cars and on thier last legs. 94 Taurus was only wagon that was selling OK. Besides, the only cargo area needed by common 'cute ute' drivers is for 3-4 shopping bags.

"People concerned about 'green' are buying those butt ugly Prius's faster than Toyota can build them." Not anymore!!!! Sales are down 50% from the summer panic of 4$ gas. Toyota postponed US productions. So, in other words, read the news and look up what is going on RIGHT NOW!

"I prefer a Pontiac, therefore the Chevrolet's are not 'just as good'" And what makes it better? The name? Badge? History? The V8's in Pontiacs have been Chevys since 1982, so again what are you paying for? Sure, when GM had 50% share, mid priced lines made sense, but now, they are as archaic as poodle skirts and smoke filled offices. You are right, you "don't get it", the world has moved on from the 60's. Some here still buy into the old psychology/image that certain brands are 'better', but the real world doesn't think Pontiac is 'better', it is 'just a GM car'. They simply CANNOT afford to feed the old think of 'where is mine?' and feed all the feifdoms within GM anymore. Pontiac is better as a niche brand, not a 'me too' as what Olds and Buick also became. To trash the main brand of GM is utter nonsense and Chevrolet should be #1 to fight Toyota.

"small car brand again, because I feel that is one area GM is hugely lacking right now" "They need more small offerings," Huh? Before the credit melt down the Cobalt and Aveo were selling fine. The Saturn astra is a huge flop. The SL was a nerd-mobile and not all that great. Should GM spend billions more to make plastic cars for what, 10-25, 000 'loyal' buyers? They would have to sell 500K to make any $$ and that is not possible. Oh, and I see Opels sold here as Chevy Cruze and Malibu, no need to 'import' and charge high prices. See Saturn Astra again, so put away any idea of importing Opels. Just share the platforms and no need for yet another brand to market.

Nothing wrong with pushrod V8's for Vettes, trucks, and Camaro. Honda killed their V-10 NSX. But for mainstream cars, GM has made great advances. People still assume that the Cutlass Ciera is still in production.

Someone I know who works as Service Advisor at a Saturn dealer says 'We are up for sale" and is looking to get out of the biz. I'd be willing to bet that one of the Chinese or [Asian] Indian car companies will buy the Saturn name and sell their cars through the dealers.

This is one of GM's biggest problems, the divisional rivalry and the 'what do we get?'. How much $ does Pontiac make? That is the key, not loads of fleet G6's and GP's. Buick is #1 in China, and brings in the $$. So it stays. Agin, Chevrolet and Cadillac are the main brands to save. The years of Pontiac, especially in Canada, trying to steal Chevy sales with rebadged cars are long over. And, GM can't afford to make 4-5 RWD 'sporty Pontiacs' to please hobbyists and loyalists. Chevys are just as good [and the same platform] as any other GM car, and anyone who thinks less is living in a fantasy world. The days of 4 full lines of car divisions competing against each other, with simple rebadges, is over and never coming back. And, it would take 1 gazillon bucks to make all 'unique' cars. [60's GM cars weren't all that different really, just little stuff to say so] "For what it's worth, 1973's model line breakout ~" Back then, GM had 50% share, and imports were about 10%. Also 1973 is 35 years ago, a lifetime for many buyers [those under 40]. Stop with the 'good old days' thinking. The Gub-ment is NOT going to 'ban imports' and give people a check to buy a new US car.

Buick world wide sells 500K, so that makes it viable. Thats the point.

Dealers will probably charge people just for test drives.

Dealers will probably charge people just for test drives.

Mitsu should just provide their cars to Chrysler/Dodge and give up selling under their own name. Galant replaces Sebring, Lancer give them a small car, and some smaller SUV's. Mopar can keep minivans, trucks. win win

Chicagoland still has too many stand alone Chrysler or C/Jeep dealers. They must think Lee I will come to rescue and bring back Plymouth for them.

GM is going to have to use some of the Billions to close redundant dealers, there are just too many competing for the same pickup, mid size and compact car buyers. Some compare G5 to Cobalt or GMC vs. Chevy p/up and get the one that is $50 less. No need for Chevy to have some dealers a few miles apart in many suburbs.