FUTURE_OF_GM

I know, right... I guess all of those coveted Lexus, MB, BMW and Mini sales go to redneck fanboys too... I agree... And we'll see... Anyone else want to help me make funeral arrangements for the company?

LOL. Yeah, because by wanting GM to offer 3 RWD, traditional models of the 60 something models its offers is 'out of touch with reality' I'm not really like you in that I don't have to worry about the price of gas.

And that's why they shouldn't be "higher ups" Seriously, how hard does GM hav to work to sell ME a car? To betray people like me, to that extent, is just BAD business sense. And what, since I voice my opinion, I'm all of the sudden below you and the 'average' (Buy a G6 with a $3000 discount) buyer. Oh wait, I forgot who I was talking to.

Exactly... Thanks

I'll ask it again... So even with technology like the Volt, the change is permanent? To me, "smaller vehicles" constitutes Aveos and Fits. And that's why I posed the question.

Because all of that makes too much sense... Just MHO. Hummer could still be HUGE. It, just like every other GM division, just needs the right product. Whatever happened to the Hydrogen Hummers that Arnold used to drive around in for GM?

I agree 100%... Hummer still has a lot of life despite the media crusade against it (The media hates it because it was a success, and we all know that nothing from Detroit can be successful without someone attacking it) But I would rather see Hummer dumped than one of the older divisions.

So, even with alternative fuels and technology like the Volt, the change is permanent?

Nah... Since GME is controlled by GMNA, it'd be GMNA badges.

As do all of the other divisions... Are you completely blind to that? Should we just sell a whole showroom of cars with GMNA badging?

Obviously you're young. Or have been living under a rock for the last 30 years.

Yes, I'm sure Briggs and Straton is shaking in it's boots.

If it's replacing the Cobalt; GM is ignorant. Customers are just now becoming acclimated with the Cobalt name now that gas is so high. Why go and have to build identity for a brand new name? (With the no money that GM has) Great power my ass... And why couldn't this technology be applied to a slightly bigger 'buzz box' and slid into Zeta? Astra replacement and G5 replacement? My curiosity is up now about the Pontiac model. (Although it's probably just a clone of the Chevrolet) I thought it was a done deal? How stupid is GM? the damn car should be on the schedule NOW! So they'll "think about it" for 3 damn years and allow everyone else to get a head start. Then they'll give us a Beat that has been introduced across the globe for 3 years already and fail miserably. (You know, like the genius that is the Astra program)

I thought about that... But where does it leave Pontiac? I'm sure the ren center would be filled with bitching if "lowly Pontiac" were allowed to ride on Sigma (Which is where the G8 & GTO should've been in the first place) And how affordable will these cars be? They are talking. One of them annoys us daily here at C&G.

Not to mention, if people are as hellbent on gas mileage as hyper insists. They'll actually PAY the $5000 extra to be able to NOT compromise the size of their vehicles.

You know.. Funny thing is that I don't really want a large RWD car. I'd much rather have something (a Camaro or GTO) the size of Alpha. But once again, it seems that GM will give me half of what I want by not engineering the car to offer a V8. I disagree... Many studies have shown that Gen Y and younger are MUCH more trusting/accepting of the Detroit automakers than the Boomers and Gen X. And this is where GM is screwing up. They HAVE a fresh start, but they're not willing to "grow" the market into their products (Much like the Japanese did with Gen X) And that is where I disagree again and why I'm b*tching so much about it. GM is dropping the platform because of politics, not because of a lack of resources/engineering. PCS himself has said as much. Durable goods are bought on emotion. It's not the same emotion as the 1960s, but it is emotion. A lot of people buy Acuras because of the technology that they LOVE. A lot of people buy Minis because they LOVE the way the cars drive. A lot of people buy imports because of their morbid HATRED for domestics. Sure, logic matters, but emotion seals the deal. Why else would design be so important if that weren't the case? As a GM fan, I'm supposed to be a critic. Yet, when GM 'fanboys' like 68 and I show our passion for something that GM is doing wrong, all of the sudden no one wants to hear it. Turbo -- Finally, another voice of reason.

I'm sorry man.... FWIW; he probably thought you were an 'evil truck driving redneck' and that's why you would 'hit him on purpose'

I agree... But alas, apparently Saab has friends in the mass abyss of ignorancer that is the GM boardroom. Hummer will be fine with new product Umm... Solstice... G5... G6 GXP... Perfomance doesn't always equal poor fuel economy and neither does Pontiac.

But it is and always has been. The article pretty much says it too. GOALS: 1) Outlook sales... DEAD 2) Current Vue outselling the previous one... The article says that this Vue is selling about 30% of what the old one was. 3) Next Aura... TICK TOCK. Price is an issue and this will be especially painfull to the division when CAFE sets in and jacks prices up.

Not for long! If only the other GM divisions (Pontiac, Oldsmobile and Buick) had that kind of consideration from GM. Which means Pontiac/Buick/GMC is the better channel that GM should be investing more in. Remember, GM HAS the product. It's the marketing and image that are broken. Obviously GMC has a better image in the market. The Outlook will really die when the Traverse is released. Again, why is it a bad thing that GM is selling MORE HIGHER PRICED Acadias than Outlooks? Which channel is better again? Well, the Outlook is already screwed and I expect the next Aura to sell ABOUT as well as the current one. So, are we looking at a Saturn phase out in 5 years or so? Not likely as GM will probably be bankrupt LOOONG before that. Sure, if you jack off over the proportions of a Camry. Well, since it looks like the same damn car, and the apparently all powerful GME is on its side. And Since Saturn apparently competes with Chevy anyway, I'm sure it'll kill and eventually we'll have Saturn positioned above Chevrolet in volume and global scale.

CONTINUED:... from a company that has better suited and better recognized divisions and no money to build Saturn into what it was supposed to be. Or a Toyota... Or a Hyundai... Ah hell, it's so bangled generic that GM could sell it under any badge, especially Daewoo. Try again... That no one knows about and no one walks into... Probably not... But Pontiac could What a surprise... We here at C&G have known this for 8 years... GM marketing sucks, BAD. They did, however, have a reason to visit Oldsmobile showrooms. LMFAO!!! WAY TO GO GM!!!!! ANOTHER FLOP!!! Yay GM Europe! We couldn't have had such success without your (blind) input It's not really rocket science that the average transaction price is going up considering the difference in product and the difference in positioning of the division. Yep... All 12 of them...

k. thx.

Yes... That's it... That's why trucks and SUVs outsold cars until last year (Despite gradually escalating gas prices) That's why V8s made a comback in the 90s and until now in almost everything (Despite gradually rising gas prices) That's why americans traditionally buy larger cars than anyone else on the planet. That's why Toyota, Honda and Nissan rushed to implement fullsize truck plans. That's why Hyundai is producing a V8 powered RWD car. Be that as it may, cars are still purchased on emotion instead of logic. Which is why 95% of cars don't need to come with the OPTION of larger sway bars and a 8 cylinders. I dunno... Ask BMW. Ask the average person that hasn't touched a GM vehicle in 15 years why they hold BMW in such high regard. I see more yuppie performance MB, BMW and Minis now than ever before. The same goes for all the 'performance' versions of the Camry and Accord, hell even Lexus has a performance division now. It's GMs fault for not utilizing all of its divisions correctly to appeal to EVERY buyer in order to remain one of the largest automakers in the world. (It already lost the title of the largest by executing stupid product plans just like this) Why not build both, make more money and have a better identity in the market? Umm. Okay... So that's why games like Gran Turismo can be found in EVERY one of these kids homes. The reason less kids are enthusiasts now is because NONE of them can afford a decent f*cking car. And a lot of this can be attributed to GM & Co. ignoring them for the past 15 years.

Nah... Things hinge on who has the biggest set of balls on the GM board... You know it, I know and sadly, 65% of the buying public knows it... Which is why GM will continue to die.

More like financial problems than some 'magical overlord' And BTW, if gas ever reaches that level, it'll be the end of the world because NO economy will survive and war will be imminent. Why does that source believe it'll be that high? Because of supply? Funny that supply doesn't seem to be the issue right now, it's simply greed.