FUTURE_OF_GM

Yep, I used to get that a lot at my previous college housing... Nothing pisses me off more than $h!ty RAP music, the repetition, dumbass lyrics and ignorant lifestyle. So.. I'd wait until that particular person had a party and was up late at night, then I'd get up BRIGHT and EARLY the next morning and rock out to death metal as loud as it would go. And trust me, some of the $h! I listen to and reap pleasure from sounds a lot like ritualistic killings of pigs and goats to the tune of blaring guitar solos and double bass "machine gun" drums. An interesting litle sociological fact for everyone: The average person who watches 'the news' on a daily basis OVER estimates crime rates in their immediate area by 2 to 3 times what it actually is.

Umm.... Last time I checked, pulling over 200,000 sales the year that you're phased out doesn't exactly qualify as life support. (Olds)Mercury's last must-have (GOTTA HAVE, except in pansy-assed journalist terminology) was the Milan... It sells well and is very desirable. Umm... Exactly what brand would you euthanize at Chrysler?!?! You'd be dumb to get rid of any of them. **And of course the media came running; domestic brand euthanization is what they specialize in! Looks like things are turning around at GM and now Chrysler. The verdict is still out on Ford IMO, they're making progress, but is it enough?

Suburban is a no brainer to anyone who has ever taken a Sociology class... I LIKE Cavalier even MORE now that I know what it means. I also have always liked Gremlin... Yes, in fact I do want my car to be known as a quasi bad ass that causes problems and annoys people, it fits my personality. Dodge Demon was another cool one. Cutlass is even cooler now too... Wasn't there a Toyota Corona as well??? Nothing can be worse than that (Take a sex ed class or read a diagram of male anatomy to see what I'm talking about)

Probably WAY up in the mountains of TN, or somewhere on the coast of SC or GA (THINK: Charleston) Either way, I'd have LOTS of land and not many people around me.

This could be either a big hit or a major miss on GM's part... It's all about the execution and launch. It be nice to see both the G8 and the Vibe give Pontiac a nice boost in credibility (with the greenies) and sales.

I have been thinking long and hard about posting in this thread. And here's why: I refuse to watch anything about September 11th. MSNBC, for example was re-broadcasting their September 11th 2001 morning news. I refused to watch it. Sure we should honor the dead, and never forget what we lost. And I cannot begin to imagine what those people went through and what their families still endure to this day; it brings a tear to my eye. However, if we continue to RE-LIVE this date, then we will NEVER heal from it. Why would the media want us to re-live some of the most emotionally scarring moments of U.S. history over and over and over again? I refuse to be subjected to that, it's the same reason I have not watched "Flight 93" or the other movie. In Sociology, we study the 'fear culture' built by the media and how the media (oblivious to their own ignorance) seriously affected how our society is today by building such a massive 'fear culture' around 9/11. I can tell that people are 'different' and I can feel the hostility in our everyday lives. We say to never forget, and hopefully we never will. However, we said the same thing about Pearl Harbor and IMO, the terrorist plot of 9/11 has worked to a large extent. I think it was the tipping force that has sent this country into a dismal spiral and I think it will be a large part of what results from that spiral; which is a defeated nation that lost what was great a long time ago. I mean no disrespect to the innocent victims and military associated with 9/11. They are all heroes and should be honored as such every year for the rest of time. But the overall effects cannot be denied IMO.

Can I have some of that Japan Inc. brand kool aid? If you don't think the Enclave is class leading, then you're on crack (And not the high dollar kind either) It's funny how it's always the import 'oriented' people who want to axe american divisions. Hmmm...

People will suck this up just like McDonalds hamburgers... It's brilliant! I can't wait to try and tell an already jaded and anti-domestic public that Hyundai is in fact lieing, because you know that's what will be thrown up in your face if you make bad remarks about them. americans are stupid, and they'll not stop until they've destroyed themselves; this is only part of what we all know is coming. It's BEEN time for GM and Detroit in general to get UGLY and I mean REAL ugly. We need more of the attitude displayed by Mark LaNeve in the quote in my signature and we need it now.

What is so bad about the Model T? Oh wait, did CR give it bad reliability ratingss?!?!? LOL Okay, so a Corvair built with the same underpinnings as a Porsche with a cheaper price is a bad thing? Sounds like someone bought into the Nader (Typical of know-nothings in the media) Friend of mine had a Chevette... Excellent car and tons of fun to drive! He gave it hell and it NEVER broke down. Yet again, GM innovates and gets no respect for at least trying. WTF?!?! That car was just cool! The car that OWNED the market?!?!?! The car that INVENTED alternative transportation... Another example of GM innovation that the media loves to take a $h! on. Yeah, because that one didn't make GM any money... Hmm... Funny there are no asian cars on there; not surprising though. Because we all know that they're WAY too perfect to make a bad car. (Barring pretty much all of the asian sushiboxes until around 1990, of course) P.S. And Dan Neil is still alive?!?!? I figured someone would've shot that dumb bastard by now. Oh well, wishful thinking I guess.

Which means it should be freshened and kept around IMO. It's as much for image as anything else... It's pretty sad when even the media constantly crows about how much your company fleets and about how your products are "fleet" products. IMO this apsect of the business is none of their damn concern.

I agree... Sadly it seems that GM has been getting away from it's interior innovation because 1) No one seems to care because the import bias is too big (Journalists) or 2) No one even notices and takes it for granted. I had the same experience in that Camry I rented back in the day. It almost felt like a technological downgrade from the GM vehicles I've driven and it was extremely hard to get past the fact that the center console DID NOT LINE UP with the dash! How much more flawed can this supposedly "Perfect, top knotch" car be before people begin to open their eyes?

LOL.. I haven't ranted about anything, (Obviously you were absent during my mod days) nor have I complained about anything. Guess I shouldn't come to a GM board and point out a problem with THE competing manufacturer; that's just too much for the import fanboys to take apparently. Oh well, rubbing the salt into the wound has been so much fun!

I had this happen in a Civic I drove recently... Sure, the gas mileage was decent, but DAMN if I didn't have to stop twice to fill 'er up on a 4 hour trip.

I did read AND enjoy that article... Not to mention this months C&D had a very positive slant on all things Detroit in general. It's a refreshing (yet probably shortlived) experience. Whatever... I agree 100%... See my post about Pavlov's dogs. I'll even go so far as to apply a psychological term to it: LEARNED HELPLESSNESS Learned Helplessness is is a psychological condition in which a human being or an animal has learned to believe that a situation is helpless. It has come to believe that it has no control over its situation and that whatever it does is futile. As a result, the human being or the animal will stay passive in the face of an unpleasant, harmful or damaging situation, even when it does actually have the power to change its circumstances. Learned helplessness theory is the view that depression results from a perceived lack of control over the events in one's life, which may result from prior exposure to (actually or apparently) uncontrollable negative events. Dude, don't even sweat it.. That's the same $h! everyone used to pull on me when I posted here more often.. "Bias this, bias that" Too bad it's a GM fansite!!!

Ya know... It does look better. I'd have to rip the wing off and burn it, maybe put a stock G6 hood on... But other than that, it doesn't look bad. I really like those wheels and see nothing "cheap" about them. ESPECIALLY compared to the wheels that were first shown on the production model (The wannabe spoke hubcap wheels) P.S. Pontiac needs to invest a bit in the GXP badge so it doesn't look so generic.

I am so very jealous of your set up there Camino... My parents are moving soon and my cars will stay with them since I'm still in college. We have horses, so we'll have land and a barn. I tried in vain for a long time to convince them that we should scrap the plans for a garage and just build another very narly 'Days of Thunder' style barn. (Complete with old rat rod motor works sign and all) My ultimate idea though is to someday build an old style (50s or 60s) service station replica complete with non functional gas pumps and all to use as a garage.

Ya know... People crack me up because they talk about Saturn as if it were the genius bar at an Apple store with all of these EXCELLENT ideas and GREAT products. The entire Saturn waste of resources gave us what exactly?!?! Dent resistant body panels that are reviled by the media and have been around in one form or another since the Endura nose on 1970 GTOs? The S-Series line of cars? The dealership experience? Has anyone ever rode in a Saturn S? They're horrible uncomfortable, hard plastic buzz boxes that pretty much EVERYONE who has ever owned one hates. I've had the pleasure of talking to many young people who hate these cars because they were forced into them by their import minded parents. It doesn't take a new company and millions of dollars to figure out that you have to both respect and care for the consumer. Saturn is exactly where it needs to be, and had I been at GM I would've laughed very hard at the "We buy our name from you" and "We are not a part of GM" statements. Because as long as you're dealing with the family funding and not making your own money, you're still a part of the family. Especially if you're one of the primary reasons the oldest member of the family died and the other members of the family suffered.

It really seems that the media can't even wait long enough for Saturn to grow into a success before they begin tearing it down. All I've read lately is BAD editorials regarding Saturn or it's performance this year. At least they waited until Cadillac actually started turning the corner before they ripped back into it.

LMAO!!! I'll bring the gas!!! (And stuff for s'mores) P.S. I'll see if I can think of some more; Toyota needs all the help it can get IMO

My reply... I'm willing to bet good money that it won't appear. "Wow.. After reading the responses to this article, I can see why something like this was allowed out of the print room in the first place. NY TImes and it's readers seem to be almost as like minded as Consumer Reports and it's readership. It's the same thing everytime: "blah, blah, blah... GM makes crappy cars... Blah blah blah... They'll keep sucking until... Blah Blah Blah... I'm still mad about my 1981 Nova...etc." It's time to wake up and LEARN that GM is making some of the best products on the market right now and has been for quite some time; read the facts folks, not opinion like this. As for the article... It has no purpose, no facts, no real reason to exist and is pretty much an embarassment to the abilities once housed by it's parent organization. Hmmm.. Kind of sounds like the OLD Saturn, doesn't it." AND I COULDN'T LEAVE IT ALONE (Another reply) "P.S. I find very funny that GM remakes Saturn into it's most competitive offering in record time, thus sealing it's future as a large part of GM going forward, yet the NY Times still finds some way to criticize the brand and the corporation. It's really getting old outside of your core readership, which probably consists of people who haven't even looked at the new Saturns much less driven them." Why -o- why do I enjoy starting $h! so much? It's good to be the FOG

^^^ It's a sad day when smear articles like this are ALLOWED out of the print room. Seriously; how long did it take someone to put together this turd (Probably not more than 10 minutes given the lack of both fact and substance) It's a sad day when the media is ALLOWED to smear a company like this without consequences. But here's the great thing: the article is so f*cking jumbled and laughable that people who aren't enthusiasts (a.k.a. don't know the story behind all of the remarks in the first place) probably won't even know what the hell this idiot is talking about. I can see the confused looks on NY Times readers faces now (That is, if anyone even still reads newspapers---which are, probably more so than Detroit, a dieing industry) Way to go dude... Get drunk again, and write another jewel that nobody comprehends and nobody cares about!

The people who built unreliable american cars have long since retired as well, but I don't see anyone cutting the big 3 any slack on that. Yet in typical self-loathing fashion, we elevate others (Japan) at the expense of our own. And in this particular case, it's 'others' that perpetuated actions which cost us dearly. What do we get in return? In return of our ELEVATING their economy out of the gutter? Nothing... Not even fair trade. Just arrogant companies with arrogant officials (government and otherwise) who will not be happy until they passive aggressively destroy our industry. It's almost as if they had the goal to do this all along; it just falls into place and Japan, with tongue in cheek, says "aw shucks, we're just trying to survive." This country reeks of cowardice and betrayal, it's sickening. Haven't been around NASCAR too much, have you? The fans are usully very loyal (albeit, that loyalty is dieing out as the sport turns into a soap opera that attracts housewives and pale faced pencil pushing men from 'the club') Agreed *** This is especially sad to me as well. I was a huge Dale Sr. fan and while I haven't been into NASCAR for quite some time, I could always relate to Tony Stewart as "my driver" now because he has attitude and a personality (Unlike all of the other talking heads) Guess I don't have a driver anymore, because it'll be a cold day in hell before I'll support Toyota in anything, regardless of WHO they buy off.

Which is exactly why it shouldn't be taken as unbiased fact... It's pretty much impossible for the rating to be truthful given the price and substance disparity.

I have to say, I'm very impressed! I don't think it outclasses the Malibu and I don't think the Malibu is really supposed to compete with the 6 anyway (That's more the G6's job--- yeah right! LOL, so much for that idea)