razoredge

Yea, thanks for the photo. XP1 ?????? I say never, Harley probably figured there would be no #1 because of the Y job or even more previous work, maybe when he was still in California. Thats my speculation. Did these concepts come from factory collections or were they already private. Im also wondering if the same guy that bought the F88 bought the Bonneville.............imagine if you can, having both of them sittin side by side.

All right fleeters......... So the sherriffs and county departments and state departments buy Impalas or American built and manufactured cars........ BFD....what do you want them to use, hun duhs ? Now are you implying that these cars go to fleet because they are FWD......this week.....I mean a few weeks ago it was for other reasons...dash plastic I believe. Not that I dont understand certain implications of "fleet", its just amusing to hear that good ol trump card like its all airport rentals and because of these its the whats wrong with GM flavor of the week. You cant get FWD/snow traction facts based on supposition about weight transfer, especially when RWD doesnt have enough traction in snow to transfer weight. I'll go with my 30 years experience driving and enjoying both in rural hilltown Northeastern America, and so will the Honda, Toyota, VW & Saab drivers, thats all we're saying, debating or denying it just doesnt make any sence, it is what it is. The majority of people in the northern part of this continent do not want RWD for their only car, especially the ladies, most likely 50 percent of the driveing population, though I was just told women out number men....I dont know but I didnt believe it. Maybe traction control is enough..but "posi" only used to help, so Im a bit pessimistic. We shut TC off on the LSS because its hard to go anywhere with the brakes on A guy in a older Toyota 4X4 caught up with me on way to work today, 3" of fresh sloppy stuff, the worst. I had the Ciera wagon, we got to a steep hill and I noticed he was falling back sliddin around some, he was in 2wd. Ive drivin limited slip rear axles in snow and it still took weigh in the trunk to conquer hills or even chains if bad enough, while all seasons on a FWD just does it, every day, day in and day out. Yep its rare like a few days a month -typically- and only of concern for 4-5 months out of the year but driving to work in the winter is at the forefront of all northern N Americans minds when car shopping. This is why I dont believe any division should completely abandon FWD. Nor do I think its fair that Caddy got the only RWD chassis. Maybe as GM transitions into more modern RWD's in various sizes and "shapes" we'll be able to see how or if the markets shift in the snow belts. Balance, carefully calculated balance. Unlike they did in 1988.

So Id say the power plant had alot to do with lower price then. Not that it bothers me but........ actually I'd like it more with that somewhat rare OHC I6 but Id be seeing 3 twin side drafts, special cam, sause & chezze and that would be a no/no. Anyhow it sounds like they were drivable, in other words not hand rollers ? Bonneville went too low, that glass roof/gullwing is worth 2 mill alone :AH-HA_wink:

I think there will be a handful of collectors that keep some of these great cars around for awhile, at least I hope so. I know there is currently owners of low milage LeSabre T-types & 86 LeSabre GN's, Pontiac TGP's, the Bonneville crowd is a great bunch of enthousiasts and I guess so is the Regal GS & GTP crowd though I never visited them. I imagine there will be some Beretta Z26 & Lumina Z34's hanging around in 20 years. I currently plan on keeping the 86 LeSabre 2dr. Limited for an indefinante amount of time. Reattas, Z24 convertables. Actually a few of these cars would hold their own and outhandle any of the comparable stock Mustang, Camaro or Cuda of late 60's early 70's. Just to be realistic

OMG, this is terrible, but not really, I feel fortunant to have seen pretty much the entire rock revolution, excluding the beginning like Elvis, Holly, Jerry Lee Lewis and such, but still they were played over AM radio at the time, just oldies already. We called it "greaser music". I mean AM transistor pocket radios were pretty much new when I was youngster Anyhow I saw the Beatles and Stones on Ed Sullivan, I actually remember well and not because of reruns or footage replayed for documentaries, though it has helped bring me back. I remember the insane screaming and wondering what the problem was But Ed was a Sunday night ritual.....across America I remember bubble gum like how about Tommy James & Shandells - Crimson & Clover, Crystal Blue Persuasion, Mony Mony, I Think We're Alone Now, Sweet Cherry Wine, Hanky Panky, Good Lovin all big time radio play when I was about 8-10 years old. Crystal Blue still has a strong pull on me on a beautiful spring day I must admit. Then came CCR, James Gang, Blood Sweat & Tears, Guess Who "American Woman", Steppenwolf, how about ?? Inagoddadivida "One" Three Dog Night is an old favorite of mine. Then I found out about Jimi just before he died and my tastes got even heavier/deeper, I was about 12. Never really liked the Doors or the Beatles or the Stones, certain selections but that was about it. Then came Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Humble Pie, Uriah Heep, Sabbath, AeroSmith, Jethro Tull, I also was and still am a big fan of early Billy Joel, such a clever lad he was....."Angry Young Man" "Captain Jack" I know I named more bands than songs but by that time we really did listen to entire albums or 8 tracks and pop radio songs seem more forgetable, until you hear them again. Stevie Wonders "Sir Duke" had substantial impact in its day. Then came "Night Fever" and pop radio was not in my vocabulary, by that time I was 17 - early 20's and into "Fusion" which was like Jeff Beck "Wired" or "Blow by Blow", Billy Cobhams "Spectrum", Al Di Meola, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Dixie Dreggs, Jean Luc Ponty. We also listened to Rock like Crack the Sky, Rush, Kansas, then more commercial like Boston, the Cars, the Tubes, Talkin Heads......but that was my friends and the radio ....not me.

Are you sure that was GM :unsure: I thought it was Merotamerda <_<

I was thinking the same thing last night...why silver ?

As for the interior design or layout, you have to remember not all interiors can look like your favorite, if you find your favorite and then feel any other must beat it in your eyes to be worthy, makes no sence. Many adults do not want a sportscar cockpit I would guess. I havent looked over the Lucerne interior since last years photos but the STS that some are bashing on looks excellent to me. Interior materials have not been much to talk about in well over a decade

Does anyone have the figure on the Bonneville & Ghia/Chrysler ? Even the Ford for that matter ? I like that Ford but I have more appreaciation for that simple sportscar look from that era than some. Myself I was thinking that Bonneville should beat the F88, but just didnt want to commit because the bidding never makes alot of sence. Calling the Banshee ugly and not a headturner was a bit uncalled for but typical. Thank goodness the masses dont share this same taste deviation. What was the powertrain in Banshee and its road worthy abilities ?

Surely ya'll dont want me throwin "pussy" around everytime it could be applied......do ya ? I mean, Id get tired of it meself

Come on now......you know that Camry/Honda/Acura/VW arguement only applys when its a necessary trump card...... which it clearly is not in this quandary Anyone have the Cadillac sales figures for 1996 ? Then the figures for last year.......2005 ? not that I mind FWD & RWD offereings..but the folklore is getting a bit deep

I can only look at your sig and consider the source

When your up against the wall, like much styling was during the 90's with the wind tunnel controlling everything you must find some other direction to go, I think these new GM's have done a good job at finding a new direction, however I would not say cutting edge of styling but thats open to personal taste, sometimes cutting edge might be unappealing. The "cutting edge" that is the 300 is not for me, even the CTS threw me a pretty good loop when it first came out. Enzo gave me the creeps with its pointed nose. Cars like that I need some time to climatize. The Cien and Sixteen and much earlier on the Viper did not do this to me because I recogonized past fimiliarities. Prowler I didnt get but I was never into hotrods and still am not really, I need more sheet metal. I look forward to this Mustang, Challenger, Camaro muscle car madness, I just wish the other two contenders were in the game now, not 3 years after the fact. Sales should be good. I hope the same for the G6, Lucerne, Lacrosse, and Cobalt because its gonna be damn hard to move forward if these cars do not sell well.

I have never been inclinded toward GA's. Though ironically I had a rental GA the first time I went down around PA on that trip to Butler I mentioned earlier. My Dakota lost the ECM back in Bloomsburg. Rather than blowing off the trip we took the rental and went about our business and a great dude in Bloomsburg fixed the Dakota and didnt take me to the cleaners. It would have been around 95/96 too so it was probably a Q4 GA. It did drive, ride and run nicely but I was never drawn to the styling and def not the red back lighting. That said a car with a non functioning engine never brings a penny over 100 and more usually cant be sold. Sad but true. I paid 600 for a perfect running, all functioning Regency.

G6, Cobalt and Lucerne excell in styling far above their predecessors. In order for the Lucerne to look more like a "B U I C K" we might have to "look back to the past" now this might mean.............. "oh no ! its retro !" This is the catch a stylist runs into, damned if they do, damned if they dont. I dont see the G6 as looking like any import, it is a great example of design moving forward and leaving the past behind. Thank goodness the Lucerne is an example of leaving the last two gen of LeSabre far behind. Now we get to enjoy this car and look forward to the next step.

ya know I should be able to follow that being the slang boy I am but I have no idea what you are talking about ? What is this "interceptor", there has been all kinds of "interceptors". then your saying the modifications done to the GTO was a turbo and P&P, ect. ?

not always true, headgaskets blow in many possible directions, sometimes its just compression into the water jacket which pumps coolant out of overflow, sometimes its just compression out of the side of the gasket that makes terrible sound. my 22R had no symptoms other than low heat from heater core and early high engine temp followed by normal operating temp.

whats the big issue here, seems like your mad at someone over something I cant find in previous posts ? " Either you don't want to admit to it being a hit for the sake of losing an argument or you're ignorant. " "whether you want it to or not." "When GM produces a FWD that can match thier credentials call me. I originally said "real performance"..." BFD, get over it, learn more about stuff like what the Cobalt is doing and Acuras, Hondas, VW, Saabs have been doing for decades. Not everyones personal agenda can be applied to the masses of adults seeking work & shopping transportation. This is not a big deal, both types of drivetrains will be available from GM as time goes by. Currently we just recieved the Kappa chassis which while not without flaws is another step along with the Cadillacs toward availability of more interesting options for GM buyers. This is no long an issue that need to be fought about.

on a side note, just to push another thorn out there, the G2 Aurora still sticks right out in a crowd too, I think GM was on to something along time ago..........hello ! =}:-O

thing is spun rod bearings dont make engines overheat

I know B)

I guess I should have put that * in there * not everything is carved in stone :AH-HA_wink:

Old street rat hotrodders & bikers were know for stripping cars & bikes of the chrome and painting over what was left. maybe the poor hillbillys that used to paint their first cars all primer grey or flat black were the first monochromers. Still and all street slang monochrome can not be defined by the book learned as the exact greek translation of the word monochromatic. Remember - "times have changed" "this is a new world" the greeks have been out of the big picture for a few decades anyhow

Im sad to say NO GM's are bringing much money by comparision, even the icons like 49 Roadmasters or 53 Centurys, or even the Z28's or Camaro SS or even the 53 Corvettes, 63 Corvettes. Nothing, notta, I just dont get it. Old Mustangs & Mopar muscle will bring 50-100% higher than GM muscle. Look at the Aurora pace cars last year or year before bringing 50% the asking price as new Aurora. The interest just isnt there, GM is not currently "fashionable".

Thats disappointing but still alot of money, compared to the "hemis' that are demanding that kind of money now that was a deal. Id personally would have a hard time not driving the car.