CARBIZ

This point is not to be missed. The GM logo is up in the board room of every Japanese manufacturer - you can bet on that. They have had a target on Detroit for 2 decades. Death by a thousand blows? I will give Japan Inc. credit for their excellent strategic planning and we in North America deserve every job loss, every drop in currency and every sag in our standard of living. It takes a genius company to shovel the $h!, but it also takes a willing customer to swallow it.

All they needed to do was produce a higher end version of the Aveo with a more sophisticated power plant and underpinnings, nicer interior and give that to Pontiac, instead of the cookie-cutter version in the Wave. That would have kept the dealers from slitting each other's throats and given GM a higher performance, small car to go after the likes of the Mini. Not that GM gives a damn about Canada, but if this model were to go to Saturn, they may as well just cancel the Chevrolet brand in this country.

Be careful or the IRS will disband the Courts.

Aggressive = good, but the current one's grille looks more massive to me. Maybe it's just the angle or the color, but it looks like the headlights are getting bigger (good, IMO) and the grill smaller.

I'm liking the outside better than the current generation; the interior not so much. Glad to see Dodge toning down the huge snout.

Looks like they dipped into the Ford/Mazda parts bin.

Some people think that EVERY vehicle that GM builds should be 'segment busting' or 'class leading' or whatever the hell other adjective phrase of the week that can be conjured up. Since GM does not have billions of our dollars to piss down the drain (like Toyota does - and look what they have managed to come up with so far!), it is abundantly clear that each product cycle that we have witnessed in the past 3 or 4 years have been giant leaps over the models being replaced. Sure, GM has catching up to do, but as reg said, the Astra was a cheap and viable replacement for the Ion. Recent management shuffles that we are witnessing are clearly pointing toward the globalization that has been in the works for a few years now. The Astra has brought interest to Saturn where there has been damned little good news lately. If the next Astra isn't 'segment busting,' then we can call for Wagoner's head. (Or at least the Cobalt!) :AH-HA_wink:

:rotflmao:

...I'm 37 and a few months - 108 of them, actually. We could be twins!

Good luck with that! Smart sold 2,400 cars here last year and more than 3k the year before - mostly in Toronto and Vancouver. If California doesn't think up some loonie idea, we Canucks will!

Well, then, in the intereste of almighty Freedom, 20 cents a kw/hr oughta do it. Won't see many lights left on after that! Like it or not, either prices will dictate our actions, or the government will. Either way, we had better 'voluntarily' start cutting back on all our energy use now, or have it forced on us. (possibly by China.)

CANADIAN PRICES, sir. We have an '04 Prius on our lot for $23,999. Our sister store sells an '08 Camry 4 cyl for $26k + taxes (13% here!); whereas, the Prius is $30k for a base (good luck finding one), but more like $36k with the 'C' package. Add the 13% taxes to the above figures and they get truly mind boggling. Our prices do not yet reflect parity with the U.S dollar, although GM just announced 72 month financing at ZERO percent on the Cobalt/G5 today. As I marvelled on another thread about the Malibu pricing, Canadian prices don't move that far off sticker. Toyota in particular, because there isn't much 'gross' in their vehicles. Invoice pricing doesn't exist here. GM prefers to offer 'incentives' to their deals; Toyota prefers to hold the line because, well, they are TOYOTA.

Tsk, tsk, boys and girls. Ever heard the term 'trial balloon?' Our legislators are finally waking up to the fact that we have not invested in energy infrastructure in, like 30 years. Our nuclear power plants are ancient, our coal fired plants are Public Enemy #1 and natural gas is going to become as expensive as powdered gold - where is the future electricity going to come from and who is going to pay for it? The future looks grim, indeed. YOUR government is bankrupt in Iraq; my government is bankrupt conducting itself like a First World power. (Example: headline news today - Ottawa has spent over $1million trying to deport 1 illegal Indian, who has learned to work the system for 3 years). So, since neither of our governments have any money left, where are the roads, airports and power plants of the 21st century going to come from? Greenpeace and the Sierra Club block everything and tie them up in the courts until the price tag triples! This idea of 'smart' meters has been raised here. The idea makes a lot of sense, actually. Rather than the utility having to arbitrarily decide which sectors of the city to 'black-out' or 'brown-out' (as happens in Brazil a lot), people who have installed 'smart meters' (which, BTW, also give them reduced electricity rates - the carrot and stick approach), will have their power reduced. Listen, I don't want to preach like a Greenpeacer, but when you travel ANYWHERE else in the world, you will see that their electrical power consumption is much less than hours. Hell, the hotels in Brazil even have motion sensors in the hallways - try walking into a darkened hallway at 1 a.m. when you are drunk in a strange city! Pick your poison, boys and girls, because as long as our governments fund everything EXCEPT the nuts and bolts of what they should be funding, we are going to be losing our freedoms and luxuries one by one. Mark my words.

Around here, all the late Caprices got bought up by taxis (and movie companies for their sets) and driven into the ground or blown up. The only Caprices I still see on the road now are usually gems with 40,000 km on them and a silver haired old lady driving! One of the demographic shifts that I see happening with the Camry is that is has become the OLDSmobile of the 21st century; that is to say, older people are buying them, babying them and, thus, furthering the Toyota myth. One cannot get too hung up on the 'haven't seen this car' or 'haven't seen that car' testimony because, IMO, demographics are EVERYTHING.

Scenario: you are in the middle of beating your wife, the phone rings and it is a telephone survey. Do you A) hang up on them or B) answer their stupid questions to just get them off the phone? I suppose blind telephone surveys are marginally more 'accurate' than those mail-in surveys from a captive demographic (if only because blind surveys are more random, but in all cases I still contend that only the persons will polarized views will bother to respond. These surveys prove nothing, other than the fact the media is starved for any real news. I see a lot of Acuras around here, but most of the people I know that have them only have them for pure snob appeal. One friend of mine, who leased a 2000 3.2 had no idea how many cylinders it had, how many hp - nada. Only that he was 'told' it was a good car. Yeah, but it ran on premium gas and he was freaking about the $700 lease payment. I laughed at him: I could have leased him a GLS Intrigue for $150 less a month AND it ran on regular gas.

Is it not an improvement that engineers are getting these promotions and not bean counters? Just asking.

Common sense dictates that the nearly 7 billion people on this planet have to be causing some effect. Small incremental changes in our habits can go a long way, but the over-riding concern has to be the population growth. What we in the West choose to do or not to do with respect to our consumption of energy and resources is going to be a spit in the bucket in the coming decades, unless Africa and Asia curb its population growth. This is the Elephant in the Room that the chattering classes refuse to face. Along with the Right to Bare Arms, the Right to Drive an SUV is the Right to Hump Whomever We Choose - and that, my friends, has to be attitudinally adjusted out.

This constant emphasis on 'game changers' is tiresome. GM does not have to change the game, only play well in it. Saturn's products were so forgettable only a couple years ago that the fact that the Vue and Astra are drawing people to their show rooms at all is nothing short of a miracle. My sources at Saturn tell me that there is a lot of interest in the Astra and the Vue. I've driven the new Vue and it is a very, very competent vehicle, selling for quite a bit less than the CR-V or the Rav4, which is plenty attractive to a lot of people. It will be nice when GM finally gets to the point where its products sell on their own merits, without having to 'give them away;' however, the media is a fickle bunch and will take another generation of vehicles or so to stop their sniping. After all, it took Datsun and Toyota about 10 years back in the late '70s to gain any real respect from the media; GM can't expect forgiveness over night.

Totally disagree with you on that one. This is the first time in a LONG time I have agreed with GM's marketing people. We haven't been a GM dealer for 2 months and we are still getting people wandering in who ONLY want to see the new Malibu. Lots of people take 6 months or more to decide what they want to drive. Building this kind of interest in a 'pedestrian' vehicle is unheard of for GM. Most consumers are not impulse buyers when it comes to big purchases. Yes, some people won't wait (or can't, if their lease is up or they just smashed up their vehicle), but a lot of others can.

I can understand the disgust for the Prius by many people on C&G, but truthfully it isn't a bad little car. What is 'wrong' with the car is the $10k premium over a 4 cylinder Camry (and even more over the 4 cylinder Malibu), which for most people would never justify the fuel savings. However, for those people for whom 'image' is everything (and for whom the Prius presents an image they want to project), the Prius is a decent car. It makes a helluva lot more sense than the FUGLY Smart Car (not.)

Since I got my HP laptop in June (I've been on high speed for a couple years now), then a wireless router a month or so ago, I can upload, download anywhere I want - including in my underwear out on the terrace. (Well, not NOW, it's cold out!) Dial up is fine if you want to message our great Aunt Millie, but any kind of pictures or data is agonizing on dial up! Even so-called 'high speed' dial up.

Still, the entire thing strikes me as a little under-handed. Then what you are saying is that the MSRP is irrelevant, the invoice price is the starting point for negotiations and the entire process is a mockery. No wonder dealers down there have such a bad reputation. A hot selling vehicle and they drop their pants just like that? Since the salespeople are paid on 'profit' and all the 'hidden' stuff goes to the dealer, not the salesperson - is it any wonder the salespeople get so aggressive and bitter down there? What did your saleslady make for her efforts $50? I'd rather work for Target.

Either you have encyclopedic knowledge or you've just dated yourself! :AH-HA_wink:

I'm glad GM has Car Heaven up here for old beaters: automatic $1,000 for any vehicle older than 1995 toward getting a new vehicle from GM. Any dealer that is being honest will only give someone $100 for a 18 year old car. They will 'sell' it to their wholesaler for $100 to get it off the lot, then the wholesaler will make a quick couple hundred selling it to one of his 'clients,' who will then spend $600 safetying and cleaning the vehicle up, then it MAY sell for $1,500 or so - but who is going to assume the risk that the engine could be going or it could sit on their lot for 6 months? Yeah, if you've got the time (and patience), sell it yourself. Around here, an AutoTrader ad will set you back $35, the Ontario used car booklet is another $30 or so, plus YOU will have to pay to have it safetied (even if you can do the work yourself) and emission tests (another $140 total in Ontario), then you get the fun and privilege of letting perfect strangers into your home and into your car for the test drive. The kicker is, most likely the same wholesaler that the dealer you are dealing with would have sold it to in the first place is the guy who will respond to your ad, drive the snot out of it and then haggle you down to a couple hundred anyway. Or you could sell the 18 year old car to your friend/neighbor/cousin/boss and listen to the endless bickering for months as every squeak, every rattle (Gawd forbid if the tranny goes 3 weeks after they buy it!) the car has IS YOUR FAULT. TELL THEM YOU'LL TAKE $200 AND RUN!