Drew Dowdell

How about not and we move on.

Exactly.

The main point is the perspective of the bigger picture.... inside of that, there are multiple points. One is that Chevrolet is not as big priority for GM in China. Chevy still needs to perform, but it's not make or break. Ford brand is literally all Ford has in China at this point... Lincoln is just barely getting started and Ford has no other brand partners like GM does. The second point is that sports cars have never been a Chinese priority, posh chauffeur driven sedans and MPVs are, so I can't really fault GM for not putting any effort there. I can certainly fault Lincoln for only joining the market in 2014. Mustang outsold Camaro in China.... yippie.... GM sold 3.8 times as many vehicles as Ford did in China. Lincoln sold 32,588 cars in China in 2016. Cadillac (which isn't even doing that well in China compared to Benz or Audi) does that in 2 months. Buick does that every 2.5 weeks. I'm sure Mary Barra is crying over the 310 units per month she's losing out to Mustang sales. Really.... three hundred and ten vehicles per month in a country of 1.37 billion people is what @FordCosworth is tap dancing over. Perspective. Unfortunately, this story is a molehill that a giant mountain has been made from.

I think the issue is with the why and when people are getting downvoted. If you get downvoted for something like one of Hyper's long posts that is full of opinion and such, sure, that can be valid if you're simply disagreeing with that poster. There is a small group of posters here who will downvote a post simply because of who posted it. It could be something as simple as "Air contains Oxygen" and they get downvoted for it. That is what causes the irritation. Downvoting out of pettiness and personal vindictiveness is the problem... not downvoting due to disagreement. Most of the time, if I downvote someone, I'll also reply as to why I disagree. I'll also point out that the people who are doing the downvoting out of vindictiveness are the ones who ruined the system and forced me to put a limit on how many downvotes they could make in a day. Those people were going through and downvoting EVERY POST certain people made without regard for the content of the post. They either didn't realize or didn't care that I can see all of their activity on the site. They would log in and do nothing but downvote a particular person and then leave. They are, in fact, Downvote Trolls... doing so specifically, and immaturely, to irritate other users of this website. One of them was already found guilty of other high crimes and misdemeanors, and consequently executed. Another has seemly left the site. A third is currently on a severely restricted probation.

The Mustang is getting it's ass kicked by a mommyvan. Again, Chevrolet is not GM's brand of choice there, Buick, Cadillac, and Wuling, and Baojun are. Wuling and Baojun sell over 1.5m vehicles annually. Buick adds another million. Those three brands alone are 2.5 million units annually. That's 208,333 cars a month from just three brands... add to that GM also has Cadillac, Chevrolet, and some other China-only brands as well (Opel is/was there for some reason) Ford isn't even in the 6 digit per month figure. GM has 4 cars in the Top Selling Cars in China list. Ford has zero. But Mustang beat Camaro.... so...

Does that kind of excuse work in China? You yourself said that the Camaro has been selling there since 2011.... the Mustang is new.

You're the one who brought up the Puritans man..... you got your facts wrong about them escaping religious persecution. On the point of the Quakers.. of which I am a descendant as well, I concede that yes they were being persecuted in England... but they were NOT the Mayflower pilgrims.

Camaro was busy stomping on the Mustang here in the US during 4 of those 5 years. GM's more interested in growing Buick and Cadillac. Buick is a huge money maker for them over there where they can sell re-badged Daewoos at the low end for big markups and charge Benz like prices for the Encore and the GL8. Buick has been a prestige brand since the last time China had an Emperor. Where is Lincoln? Just getting started. Let's compare numbers.... During March the Ford sold 90,457 units, down biggly. General Motors delivered a March record of 345,448 vehicles GM sold 2.5 times as many Envisions as Ford sold Mustangs. GM sold nearly as many Buicks in China (88,519) than Ford sold vehicles of any brand and any size. Chevy just isn't one of the bigger brands for GM in China. They use their other brands there.... so it's not a big surprise that Camaro sales are low. In the end, I'm not really all that concerned about Camaro or Mustang sales in China... as the original article implies, muscle cars (or more properly, pony cars?) have never been a big deal to the Chinese, so the sales of these two cars there is a relatively new phenomenon. The Chinese go for big, soft luxury... being chauffeur driven has been the prestige there. Hard to have a chauffeur with a Camaro or Mustang.

I can Zero you out if you want to start from scratch

Voting is going to change in a few months anyway. I"ve been testing out version 4.2 of the software and it has "reactions" rather than voting up or down.

I'm not sure GM was even trying with the Camaro over there.... leaving it with limited importation due to cost. It was a big deal that they even imported the Enclave over there.

The problem is when you and a select other few vote troll. Meaning, someone who you don't like posts "Air contains oxygen" and you vote them down for it. Unfortunately, this software doesn't have a mechanism for dealing with that sort of pettiness, so I have to spank you manually.

Yeah, Capitalism did similar things to Detroit as well. When they starting to put short term profits over long term product quality. When they started considering people disposable. When they started moving jobs overseas because they forgot the lessons of Henry Ford; pay your workers a wage that they can afford the products they build. You can head over to Detroit and survey the destruction of rampant capitalism all you want.

You lost when you downvoted him for making factual statements.

Horsepower is the measurement of torque over time. A Tesla has max torque at zero RPM, but it also has ZERO horsepower at that point. Horsepower is a marketing gimmick and largely irrelevant to the every day driver. It's only relevant to race car drivers.

Sadly, the 4.3 is actually small enough to fit under the hood of the new Impala. They just won't do it.

One wonders what the government of Venezuela plans to do with an auto manufacturing plant that has no parts suppliers. At this point, it's just a large box on land.

That would be relevant had we been talking about that period in time. We are not. We are discussing the 150 or so years of "pure capitalism" that @hyperv6 referred to.... a capitalism that only existed due to theft, indentured servitude, and slavery by the capitalists..... or as Hyper likes to call it "the good old days"

@trinacriabob - yeah, the 3500 and 3900 both hold up very well. I continue to be impressed with their smoothness. It's a shame that the Horsepower per Liter crowd killed them in the marketplace. The 3500 may only make 219 hp which is just higher than the 196hp in the new 2.5 in the base Impala, but it also makes 35 lb-ft more torque and at a lower RPM. I know I'd rather have the smoothness of the 3500 over the rather rough sounding (even as far as 4-cylinder go) 2.5 liter.

it's utterly ridiculous and a failure of our education system that this thread even exists. The number of falsehoods in @hyperv6 post from 8 hours ago is enough to make any 6th grade teacher want to quit their job and go be a sniper instead. Puritans did NOT come to the the new world to escape persecution. You apparently never learned anything about them beyond the cartoony 4th grade level. The Puritans came here because they weren't allowed to persecute to the level they wanted to. King Charles I, who himself was not afraid to have people killed for not adhering to a rather strict faith, had to tell the Puritans to knock it off with the persecution of other religions. So in an effort to be as strict as possible they decided to break away from England. Even when they came to the new world, the Puritans would execute followers of other faiths. So let's make sure we get the facts straight.... the Puritans were the contemporary equivalent of Wahhabism type of Islam. Just to correct at least one of the falsehoods in that long post.

The idea that the New Deal was supposed to be temporary (nothing which could be further from the truth, especially given the quotes from FDR at the time) is the EXACT reason why we are falling behind again today.

Really @hyperv6, you're going to vote me down because I said the world isn't black and white? Or are you just one of those who doesn't like to admit that socialism had a large part in pushing this country forward?

We live in a capitalist/socialist hybrid. What capitalists don't like to admit is that we got "great" by adopting more socialism and we've gotten less great as we've moved towards more pure capitalism. The reality is there is a scale and somewhere mid-point between socialism and capitalism is the best point.