Drew Dowdell

Flex is probably it then if you can find an old enough one in the budget. It is, in essence, the only modern full size wagon left being based on the Taurus. I'm not going to suggest an old Saab 9-5 wagon, too hard to find and too much care and feeding to keep on the road. 9-3 wagon isn't awful and the last ones are GM products. Outside of that, you're looking at minivan.

Do you still need Taurus Estate level of hauling?

I was under the impression this would be a used car purchase

Features are not in themselves a luxury if the rest of the car doesn't match up. The Civic and Elantra offer heated rear seats, but no one would consider them to be a premium luxury brand or trim. Just putting a so-called premium badge on the trunk and adding a couple of features as standard does not alone make it premium worthy. And that's why, except for the Explorer, F-Series, and Expedition, just saying that Titanium/Platinum/Limited trim models are equal to the premium brands at other manufacturers is dubious at best.

In the Edge, Sport and Titanium appear to be basically equal in terms of equipment except for powertrain/suspension/steering. I'm not saying the cost isn't justified. It just that I can put the same creature comforts in both of them equally and the sport will cost more due to powertrain (as an extra charge powertrain should). To me, that puts the Sport above the Titanium since I can't get the high end power train in the Titanium. From a Buick perspective, it would be like saying that the Regal Turbo Premium Group 2 is above the GS. It just isn't. For the Fiesta... no it isn't obvious that the Titanium offers anything more than I listed... at least not on Ford.com's comparison tool. It boils down to nicer radio, nicer seats, bigger wheels and a rear view camera. If it was something obvious, it would jump out at me. If there is something I'm not seeing that makes it a huge leap over the SE, point it out to me.

You kinda need to give us a budget

And premium trimmed Ford cars, trucks and SUV's outsell Buick and GMC combined. Easily.Congrats to BMW. Well deserved. Titanium/Platinum as a trim does not necessarily a premium trim make. On the F150s and Explorer, yes. On the Fusion, Focus, Escape, and Edge etc, the distinction is far far less clear.Its translucent... No.. Opaque. Put a Titanium Fusion, hell put a Fusion made of titanium next to a normal Fusion, and I'd be hard pressed to tell yourself why U spent the extra coin. Buick? There is a level of cache attached to it. Ford Titanium? Not at all.I agree that the name Titanium has no cache at all but place a titanium fusion next to a base fusion and it's very obvious. I do feel like they are watering down the name "titanium". For instance, 2013 Escape titaniums pretty much came with everything including the largest wheels and engine. Get a titanium, get the big engine and wheels standard along with all sorts of other options. Jump ahead and the 19's and 2.0t are options on Titanium trimmed Escapes. I don't like that. It's not "base v. titanium" that I have an issue with. It's "titanium/platinum/limited v. the next step down" that I have an issue with. It's the fact that you can option an SE to pretty much be a Titanium that makes it not so premium to me. And it's not about what comes standard in that trim, it's about what you can't get unless you get that trim. On the Terrain Denali, the one I consider to be the least worthy of the Denali badge, you get unique grille, wood rim steering wheel, slightly improved perf leather seats, additional chrome, additional interior ambient lighting, and unique wheels... things you can't get on an SLT at any price. In the Fusion/Flex/Taurus/Focus/Edge, there is very little difference between a mid-level and the top level. It gets more confusing when Ford gets the trim levels out of order. At F-150, Platinum is below Limited and there is no Sport though there is a sport apperance package. On Explorer, Platinum is above both Limited and Sport. On Edge, Sport is above Titanium. On Taurus, Limited is the top non-SHO. On Focus, Titanium is kinda the middle trim with ST and RS above it. With GMC, there is no confusion. Denali is the king. The trim lines below that all keep in order as well... Base/SLE/SLT Two of the more ridiculous Titanium trims are the Fiesta Titanium and Transit Connect Titanium. Neither of which come anywhere close to being considered premium vehicles or trim level. In the Fiesta, Titanium gets you 16s, better seats and better stereo... but you're locked out of the 1.0T which is the engine I'd want. The TC Titanium gets you second row bucket seats, 17s, and leather. Neither of these are anywhere near the level of Buick or Denali.

The Fusion Titanium is no Regal and is the same distance behind the LaCrosse as it is from Lexus ES. It's a laughable suggestion based on the current products. No, the platinum / titanium trims on the fiesta, escape, focus, Taurus, and flex are not premium to the level of buick or Denali. So you're left with F-series, Explorer, Expedition, and if you want me to toss you a bone, the Edge. The take rate in premium trims is **NOT** outselling Buick and GMC combined... not even just Buick and Denali combined. You may not believe they are direct competitors, but they absolutely are, and in many cases, even outrank with more luxury features and power, AWD, etc. For example, you absolutely can't begin to try and sell me on the Explorer Platinum being outclassed by any Buick. In every instance when I posted, I specifically set aside the Explorer Platinum trim, along with the F-series and Expedition, as being worthy of consideration as a premium trimmed trimmed vehicle. EVERY SINGLE POST I have stated that Explorer, F-series, and Expedition with premium trims are on Par. I've also SPECIFICALLY pointed out that the Fusion, Focus, Escape, Fiesta, Flex, and Taurus are NOT worthy, thus should not be counted a premium trims even if they wear Platinum/Titanium badge. On the Fusion - The only stuff Titanium gets you over an SE is Leather (Optional on SE), Sony, Fog Lamps (Comes on SE Leather package), and Dual-Zone (Optional on SE)....that's it. So if you don't care about having the Sony sound system, you can build your own Titanium out of an SE very easily. Nothing else on the interior gets changed.... so in reality a Titanium is just an SE with Sony. On the Escape - The only stuff standard on a Titanium that you can't get on an SEL is the Sony and the Foot activated rear hatch. On the Taurus Limited - the only improvements you cannot get on an SE are memory , 10 way heated/cooled seats. (SHO sells in too small of a volume to bother with) On the Edge Titanium - you get Sony, Leather, and power passenger seat. On the Edge, for some reason the Sport is more expensive than the premium trimmed Titanium... I know it's a powertrain thing, but shouldn't the lux model be the most expensive? So why do I set aside the Explorer, F-series, and Expedition? Explorer - The Explorer Platinum's leather seats are a nice upgrade over lesser Explorer's leather seats, they are quilted and perforated in places, there are matching door liners that really add an air of luxury to the cabin. There is sharp looking contrast stitching in places, wood is added to the rim of the steering wheel (a favorite lux treatment of mine), the Sony system is further upgraded from the Sony available in the Limited.... the end result is that you cannot build an Explorer Limited to nearly the same level as an Explorer Platinum and fool anyone. This story repeats itself on the F-series (though there the Limited is higher than the Platinum and both have substantial upgrades over a Lariat). The Expedition Platinum is less of a clear upgrade over a Limited, but there is the King Ranch for about the same price with its unique interior trim that gives an air of luxury. This is why I say F-Series, Explorer, Expedition Premium trims = worthy of being compared to premium brands.... and Fusion/Edge/Flex premium trims are not. Furthermore, Explorer Platinum trim would have to have a 41% take rate just to exceed sales of Enclave + Acadia Denali..... and that simply isn't happening. And THAT is why, the premium trimmed Fords are not outselling GMC and Buick combined.... not even Buick and Denali combined.... possibly not even Denali alone.

I'll say that Volvo is shifting upward rapidly. The XC90 is the first of this, but if the new sedan matches it like I expect they will, they won't be second tier luxury much longer.

If I had of ommited Buick, I would have had to omit Acura, Lincoln, and Volvo. While those 3 are sort of the bottom feeders of the luxury range, they are well above Buick. If you compare base price of similar sized vehicles: Verano $21,065 ILX $27,900 S60 $34,150 (no small Lincoln) Regal $27,065 TLX $31,695 S80 $43,450 MKZ $35,190 LaCrosse $31,065 RLX $54,450 (no large Volvo) MKS $38,850 Encore $24,065 Envision $ ??? RDX $35,370 XC60 $36,600 MKC $33,260/MKX $38,260 Enclave $39,065 MDX $43,015 XC90 $49,800 MKT $43,210 The Enclave is the only place Buick is close, and the MKS is dead, I am guessing the Continental will be over $40k. If Buick was a luxury brand they would be competing with Cadillac. As I said.. if I omitted Buick I would have to omit those other brands. If U consider a $6K price difference, still residing in the $20-30K range for both is the epitome of what determines superiority then U are much further gone than I feared. If the ILX is priced above the Verano and people pay it then those people are fools, cause there ain't jack about the ILX that justifies it be priced higher than the Verano.. except the idiot feature. Over 60% of buick sold are sold with at least the leather group, often that is the second most expensive option group on a buick below premium group. In Verano, that puts the price at.... $27k.. The transaction prices on Enclave are well over $50k.... so who cares what the enclave base price is if no one is buying them that way?

If I had of ommited Buick, I would have had to omit Acura, Lincoln, and Volvo. While those 3 are sort of the bottom feeders of the luxury range, they are well above Buick. If you compare base price of similar sized vehicles:Verano $21,065 ILX $27,900 S60 $34,150 (no small Lincoln) Regal $27,065 TLX $31,695 S80 $43,450 MKZ $35,190 LaCrosse $31,065 RLX $54,450 (no large Volvo) MKS $38,850 Encore $24,065 Envision $ ??? RDX $35,370 XC60 $36,600 MKC $33,260/MKX $38,260 Enclave $39,065 MDX $43,015 XC90 $49,800 MKT $43,210 The Enclave is the only place Buick is close, and the MKS is dead, I am guessing the Continental will be over $40k. If Buick was a luxury brand they would be competing with Cadillac. Your sizing match ups are mostly wrong unless you're comparing some irrelevant spec like glove box room or overall length.Measure the interiors. Also, you're looking at 1SV models at Buick it seems. Don't ask me to explain why they do it, but buick will offer option packages on the website that are impossible to buy because they never get built. There are zero Regal 1SV cars in either 2015 or 2016 available even though the package is on the site. The base Regal is really the base turbo at $29k.

And premium trimmed Ford cars, trucks and SUV's outsell Buick and GMC combined. Easily.Congrats to BMW. Well deserved. Titanium/Platinum as a trim does not necessarily a premium trim make. On the F150s and Explorer, yes. On the Fusion, Focus, Escape, and Edge etc, the distinction is far far less clear. Expedition Platinum is the equal to GMC. Same for Explorer Platinum. Same for Fusion Titantium with Regal. Certainly for F-150. Certainly for SD. Certainly for Edge, although GM does not have exact competition. And yes, even Escape and Fusion, and soon, that much more with new Fusion. The Fusion Titanium is no Regal and is the same distance behind the LaCrosse as it is from Lexus ES. It's a laughable suggestion based on the current products. No, the platinum / titanium trims on the fiesta, escape, focus, Taurus, and flex are not premium to the level of buick or Denali. So you're left with F-series, Explorer, Expedition, and if you want me to toss you a bone, the Edge. The take rate in premium trims is **NOT** outselling Buick and GMC combined... not even just Buick and Denali combined.

If anyone is wondering about the Chinese stock market, in one report today it was mentioned that it is 80% retail buyers...that is.. individual investors not banks and institutions. Think about that for a moment while thinking about the wild fluctuations there this week.

And premium trimmed Ford cars, trucks and SUV's outsell Buick and GMC combined. Easily.Congrats to BMW. Well deserved. Titanium/Platinum as a trim does not necessarily a premium trim make. On the F150s and Explorer, yes. On the Fusion, Focus, Escape, and Edge etc, the distinction is far far less clear.

I've been told by the GMC people that the Denali trim alone outsells Lincoln and Acura individually and the entire Land Rover / Jaguar lineup combined.

If you're a lover of the Verano 2.0T, I may have some bad news for you for 2017..... waiting on verification.

Flex. It's a shame you missed out on this though.

If Cadillac can sell an EXT at 90k, then they should sell an EXT at 90k. Why should they leave any money on the table just to satisfy people who still won't buy ANY Cadillac and only buy Euro cars anyway?

LOL.. gotta wonder if one would see the same gains as they did in the Cruze with the same engine. +44whp in the Encore.. damn nice. Wonder when is the 1.6L supposed to show up in the Buick? 153HP/177lbs moves it along very nice.... but 197HP would be even better I've already been told "don't hold your breath" on the 1.6T in the Encore. The new 1.4T is it for now. I don't need huge gains, but every little bit would help. Edit: Unless you got the Encore ST (which you didn't), you have 138hp, not 153.

Thanks, I'm looking for a mild tune for the Encore now that I bought it out. I just need one that won't get fried if my partner puts 87 in instead of 91.

While a Cadillac pickup wouldn't sell outside of North America, a new Escalade EXT would do very well for profits. The only reason it went away is because the Avalanche went away. The reason the Avalanche went away is because they didn't think they'd have the capacity in Arlington TX when the SUV production moved there (and they appear to have been right). Arlington is being expanded, but if that means a return of the Avalanche and EXT is anyone's guess. If I remember correctly..part of the reason why U saw a dip in K2XX sales was because they had to pull back on fleet sales due to capacity issues at the Arlington plant. Makes sense for an expansion.. if and only if the price of gas remains low for a while. Yup. Apparently the goal with the expansion is to double the capacity.

Point is there are other markets.. and essentially how Toyota.. who was in turmoil in China.. has made their nut. GM should exercise the Monroe Doctrine.. put so much product down South, Central America that they want nothing else. OZ??? Pretty much Holden only.. why no Cadillacs??? They Want them. Why no Corvettes or Camaros?? They want them. Costs a lot to re-engineer a car to right-hand drive. Not economically feasible to do that for cars with such low volumes. They'd have to be able to sell the cars in all markets with RHD, and those other markets aren't really all that friendly to big American cars in the first place (Japan, UK, Bahamas)

While a Cadillac pickup wouldn't sell outside of North America, a new Escalade EXT would do very well for profits. The only reason it went away is because the Avalanche went away. The reason the Avalanche went away is because they didn't think they'd have the capacity in Arlington TX when the SUV production moved there (and they appear to have been right). Arlington is being expanded, but if that means a return of the Avalanche and EXT is anyone's guess.