Buick Has High Expectations For Avenir, But Not High Pricing

Aside from the name, which I dislike, Avenir is mainly for China. U.S. tastes are no longer Buick's priority. 

Into the mid $50s seems like a lot for a Buick or GMC crossover, but they'll find some people that will pay it.  If there are people out there paying $48k for an Explorer, someone will pay $54k for an Enclave.

Question is how many dollars is GM losing on Avenir and Denali SUVs that could have been Cadillacs if Cadillac had a crossover to sell?    That same person that spends $55k on an Acadia Denali might have spent $65k on a Cadillac XT7 if it existed.

A completely loaded Enclave Avenier AWD is $59,720, and the equipment that gets you is very competitive.

A completely loaded XT5 is $66,230... so an XT7 will go higher.... much.

I suspect that the XT7 will have CT6 pricing, if not slightly higher.  Gotta make those fat profit margins for Cadillac.

As for the Avenir trim level, good luck in making that work.  Buick could stand to pick up a few good ideas from GMC.

I am still shocked that there isn't an Escalade-V with a 650 hp supercharged V8 for $129,000.  I mean why not, someone will pay it.  I think Cadillac could easily have an SUV above Escalade in the $150-200,000 range.  Take the CT6 plug in hybrid tech mated to the new DOHC turbo V8 for a combined 700 hp with say 25 mpg sort of ability, hand sewn interior, 1 inch thick wool carpeting,  platinum plated door sills, twice the sound isolation of a CT6, wood from trees that fell naturally on their own accord, etc

If Buick can get $59k for an Enclave more power to them. But if you are going to push Buick's pricing well into Cadillac territory why aren't they pushing Cadillac up as well, despite previous failed attempts.

44 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I am still shocked that there isn't an Escalade-V with a 650 hp supercharged V8 for $129,000.  I mean why not, someone will pay it.  I think Cadillac could easily have an SUV above Escalade in the $150-200,000 range.  Take the CT6 plug in hybrid tech mated to the new DOHC turbo V8 for a combined 700 hp with say 25 mpg sort of ability, hand sewn interior, 1 inch thick wool carpeting,  platinum plated door sills, twice the sound isolation of a CT6, wood from trees that fell naturally on their own accord, etc

If Buick can get $59k for an Enclave more power to them. But if you are going to push Buick's pricing well into Cadillac territory why aren't they pushing Cadillac up as well, despite previous failed attempts.

I think they need to worry about more about gently getting buick and GMC where they are a bit higher...

In my eyes Caddy does not yet compete on a level where they could have a a 100k+ SUV....they need to define and refine the models they have now first.....

Just now, daves87rs said:

I think they need to worry about more about gently getting buick and GMC where they are a bit higher...

In my eyes Caddy does not yet compete on a level where they could have a a 100k+ SUV....they need to define and refine the models they have now first.....

Buick is going into the $50s, all the way to $59k in Drew's example, GMC Yukon Denali's are $70k, maybe more than that, I don't price them out.  But both brands sell a lot in the $35-55k range.  Cadillac right not sells most of their product in the $35-65k range, outside of the Escalade.  Even well equipped or loaded XTS and XT5 are maxing at $65k and a CT6 with some options is $65k.

Cadillac isn't on the level of those with $100k+ cars, and that is the problem.  Why aren't they?  GM managed to push Buick and GMC up in price point, but Cadillac hasn't gone up in price point in 15 years just about.  The early 2000s STS and DTS with inflation were priced higher than CTS and XTS of today.

51 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Buick is going into the $50s, all the way to $59k in Drew's example, GMC Yukon Denali's are $70k, maybe more than that, I don't price them out.  But both brands sell a lot in the $35-55k range.  Cadillac right not sells most of their product in the $35-65k range, outside of the Escalade.  Even well equipped or loaded XTS and XT5 are maxing at $65k and a CT6 with some options is $65k.

Cadillac isn't on the level of those with $100k+ cars, and that is the problem.  Why aren't they?  GM managed to push Buick and GMC up in price point, but Cadillac hasn't gone up in price point in 15 years just about.  The early 2000s STS and DTS with inflation were priced higher than CTS and XTS of today.

It's a good question GM needs to answer. It's one reason why it's dumb for them to try to benchmark the other two makers (Benz, BMW) when it simply best for them to due their own thing and promote that.  The reason why (Buick, GMC) gave been successful is that they are doing their own thing.....time to do that for Caddy. Define and refine are my starting choices here......

17 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Aside from the name, which I dislike, Avenir is mainly for China. U.S. tastes are no longer Buick's priority. 

...and being built in China is why I will never allow one of these to grace my driveway.  Ever.

11 hours ago, daves87rs said:

It's a good question GM needs to answer. It's one reason why it's dumb for them to try to benchmark the other two makers (Benz, BMW) when it simply best for them to due their own thing and promote that.  The reason why (Buick, GMC) gave been successful is that they are doing their own thing.....time to do that for Caddy. Define and refine are my starting choices here......

Probably one of the most intelligent things you have said here at C and G.

13 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I am still shocked that there isn't an Escalade-V with a 650 hp supercharged V8 for $129,000.  I mean why not, someone will pay it.  I think Cadillac could easily have an SUV above Escalade in the $150-200,000 range.  Take the CT6 plug in hybrid tech mated to the new DOHC turbo V8 for a combined 700 hp with say 25 mpg sort of ability, hand sewn interior, 1 inch thick wool carpeting,  platinum plated door sills, twice the sound isolation of a CT6, wood from trees that fell naturally on their own accord, etc

If Buick can get $59k for an Enclave more power to them. But if you are going to push Buick's pricing well into Cadillac territory why aren't they pushing Cadillac up as well, despite previous failed attempts.

Do you go into a Sushi restaurant and complain that you can't get a deli sandwich or a steak...seriously?

14 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

A completely loaded Enclave Avenier AWD is $59,720, and the equipment that gets you is very competitive.

A completely loaded XT5 is $66,230... so an XT7 will go higher.... much.

 

Interested in seeing what an Xt7 would do...

1 minute ago, A Horse With No Name said:

...and being built in China is why I will never allow one of these to grace my driveway.  Ever.

The Buick Enclave Avenir is built in Lansing Michigan. 

1 minute ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The Buick Enclave Avenir is built in Lansing Michigan. 

Pardon me, then I retract my comment.  I thought production on this had moved to China also.

There are only 2 vehicles currently on sale in the US that are built in China.  The Buick Envision and the Volvo S60 Inscription (long wheelbase model).

Only 2 cars for now.  There will be more built in China as time goes on. 

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Only 2 cars for now.  There will be more built in China as time goes on. 

Maybe. With all the crazy going on daily right now, I'm not so sure automakers are willing to take that chance....

7 minutes ago, daves87rs said:

Maybe. With all the crazy going on daily right now, I'm not so sure automakers are willing to take that chance....

Methinks they are sliding slightly into survival mode at the moment.

Ford already has said they are moving Focus production to China with the next generation.  Volvo I imagine will have more Chinese made cars since they have a Chinese owner.  Car companies will always look for cheaper labor and China is the land of manufacturing.   The one thing that could slow down Chinese production of cars is if the whole car is built buy robots, then you have no labor cost and who cares where the factory is at that point.

Plus with self driving cars, they can drive themselves off the assembly line onto a truck or train or boat for shipment.  Not sure if that motivates auto makers to build domestic or outsource over seas.

8 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Methinks they are sliding slightly into survival mode at the moment.

And you would be very right my friend....

5 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Ford already has said they are moving Focus production to China with the next generation.  Volvo I imagine will have more Chinese made cars since they have a Chinese owner.  Car companies will always look for cheaper labor and China is the land of manufacturing.   The one thing that could slow down Chinese production of cars is if the whole car is built buy robots, then you have no labor cost and who cares where the factory is at that point.

Plus with self driving cars, they can drive themselves off the assembly line onto a truck or train or boat for shipment.  Not sure if that motivates auto makers to build domestic or outsource over seas.

What Ford says and what they plan to do are different things. While that "might" be their plan- I can tell you that they are still not that sure internally what they plan to do. Rumors are still in the air if there is even going to be another generation of Focus in the US anyways...between the dropping sales and pending nasty dual clutch lawsuits coming....things are not looking good....

Volvo could be interesting.....my gut tells me that they build a plant (or buy) here in the US, though it could very well be automated.......

A conventional 6 or 8 speed auto could have saved the Focus and the Fiesta for those weenies who cannot drive a stick.  People who own these cars with manuals are wondering what all the fuss is about.

22 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

There are only 2 vehicles currently on sale in the US that are built in China.  The Buick Envision and the Volvo S60 Inscription (long wheelbase model).

CT6 Hybrid is also imported from China, if I remember correctly. 

Ah you're right, I had forgotten.

I hope Ford doesn't more the Focus plant to China.. That'd be one way to guarantee I don't buy a new one. There are too many other brands who don't manufacture in China to choose from. 

@Drew Dowdell Is the Golf made in Germany or the US? 

I thought the Golf was hecho en Mexico.

I know that was true way back when.

And when that was true, the VR6 variant was made in Deutschland.

Interesting to know what has happened between then (the 1990s) and now...

I think at one time maybe 15 years ago or so, Golfs in the US came from Germany and the Jettas came from Puebla, Mexico.  Not sure about today...

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

I hope Ford doesn't more the Focus plant to China.. That'd be one way to guarantee I don't buy a new one. There are too many other brands who don't manufacture in China to choose from. 

@Drew Dowdell Is the Golf made in Germany or the US? 

Um... both.  The bulk of Golf is built in Mexico. I believe the R and E are built in Wolfsburg. 

Good. Nothing has changed.

The plebeian Golfs come from Mexico and the performance ones from Germany chalking up  the electric one in the German column while we are it.

30 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Um... both.  The bulk of Golf is built in Mexico. I believe the R and E are built in Wolfsburg. 

Ohh... interesting to know.