Buick to Look to China for more product

12 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Semantics would be if you stated the GS stopped production "in the mid '70s" and I replied "it ended in 1975".

These counterpoints are not dickerings over terminology, at least as far as I see them.

Thank you BTW for your well wish RE my B-59. I hope so too.
 

 

And while semantics IS what you said...

Semantics is also trying to focus on parts of a conversation that have nothing to do with the discussion on hand...

I said that the GS above was a 1973?. It went away...1-2 years...

You telling me it stayed another 1-2   years therefore you are wrong about Buick... is semantics...

Me saying that the CAN-AM Poncho is the only Colonnade worth mentioning after 1975 and you posting pics of a pace car Buick 3.8 turbocharged V6 when I said the 455 went away and Buick started developing the 3.8 and 5-6 years later we get the GN and GNX is...still semantics because in the grand scheme of things, without the minute details of getting the timeline right to the minute and second,  I got it right...no...not with the precision of a Bulova moon watch in  the timeline side of things...but my words were still true...countering with bad badge engineering pics from what the other poster was trying to convey with said bad badge engineering Buicks, which was waaaaay out in left field...

But...it is what it is...

IMO, focusing on parts of a conversation apart from the point would be another term you used; deflection.

Pontiac is the only brand that didn't drop performance-specific models when even Chevy dropped the Z-28/big block Camaro for 2 years. It was a wretched time, no question. But besides a number of A-Body packages, they had the Trans Am. There's a reason T/A sales went thru the roof going deeper into the '70s and it wasn't all influence from Smokey & the Bandit. Pontiac was the only performance game in new vehicles. Imagine a time when a relatively 'weak' T/A (vs. the earlier SD) was quicker than a brand new Ferrari. The Can Am was a cool machine in that series of A-Body specials, shame it was a 1-year only deal. Pontiac was still the king here.

Mentioning the Turbo 231 Buicks was my answer to 'Buick wasn't marketing to younger buyers' - I think these vehicles were. So while the 455 was pulled out of the A-Body for '75 ( I was WRONG earlier- Chiltons does NOT list the 455 being available in the Regal/Century for '75- the '75 Indy Pace car apparently was a non-RPO powertrain. GS ended after '74), Buick was working hard on re-engineering the 231for the Turbo package, as hard as they hit it RE the Pace Car / the '78 turbo publicity, I don't think Buick ever lost sight of the performance Buick here, it just had to be readied for production. As far as I know, there is no other example where engine dies were sold off overseas, then bought back & put back into production. An incredible story, actually.
 

3 hours ago, balthazar said:

[Meanwhile I am contemplating how I can badge my B-59 an 'Invicta GS'...]

Use that metal circle stamp thingy you posted a pic of to stamp into the fender Invicta GS.  

I stated my viewpoint re:  1970's H and 1980's J-Body Buicks.  Even the FWD X-Body Skylark T-Type.  I am not going to keep hammering on it.  I'm done, so why go on and on?  It's a new day.

8 hours ago, ocnblu said:

I stated my viewpoint re:  1970's H and 1980's J-Body Buicks.  Even the FWD X-Body Skylark T-Type.  I am not going to keep hammering on it.  I'm done, so why go on and on?  It's a new day.

I give ya a new old beef ? you can have with me.

Maybe Buick of China will bring the Skylark back as a Performance EV!  

?

Course I will say this is sexy as hell! 1954 Skylark

17 hours ago, balthazar said:

IMO, focusing on parts of a conversation apart from the point would be another term you used; deflection.

I could live with the term deflection. It is more accurate to describe it that way, sure.  ?

17 hours ago, balthazar said:

Pontiac is the only brand that didn't drop performance-specific models when even Chevy dropped the Z-28/big block Camaro for 2 years. It was a wretched time, no question. But besides a number of A-Body packages, they had the Trans Am. There's a reason T/A sales went thru the roof going deeper into the '70s and it wasn't all influence from Smokey & the Bandit. Pontiac was the only performance game in new vehicles. Imagine a time when a relatively 'weak' T/A (vs. the earlier SD) was quicker than a brand new Ferrari. The Can Am was a cool machine in that series of A-Body specials, shame it was a 1-year only deal. Pontiac was still the king here.

I agree to all  that paragraph 100%.  Many people continue to diss the 400 for only having 180 HP on the Olds engine (and as high as 200 and 220 for  the Poncho)  but what they do not know, despite all that power robbing smog equipment underneath, that the Pontiac 400 had 325 ft/lbs of torque @ 2200 RPM.   That was enough to get the Trans Am moving very quickly.  The Ferrari 308 of that time period made 252 HP...more than the Trans Am but still paltry to what the muscle cars just a short 3-4 years prior made and in torque...a very laughable 209 ft-lbs @5000 RPM.  But nobody laughs at Ferrari...I never understood that.  

18 hours ago, balthazar said:

Mentioning the Turbo 231 Buicks was my answer to 'Buick wasn't marketing to younger buyers' - I think these vehicles were. So while the 455 was pulled out of the A-Body for '75 ( I was WRONG earlier- Chiltons does NOT list the 455 being available in the Regal/Century for '75- the '75 Indy Pace car apparently was a non-RPO powertrain. GS ended after '74), Buick was working hard on re-engineering the 231for the Turbo package, as hard as they hit it RE the Pace Car / the '78 turbo publicity, I don't think Buick ever lost sight of the performance Buick here, it just had to be readied for production. As far as I know, there is no other example where engine dies were sold off overseas, then bought back & put back into production. An incredible story, actually.

I will agree to the 3.8 liter (I must have some contrast between you and I. Im Canadian so Ill do this in liters. Besides, for me, anything below 4.9 liters is in the metric system. Above that is in cubic inches.)  being engineered the way it was with the turbos and the pace cars, was indeed targeted for the younger buyers, but cubic inch V8s was still the way to go and Pontiac had the advantage here. At least Buick foreshadowed to what was going to come in the next decade, but I guess GM beancounters put an end to brand identity when all GM brands had lost that freedom to be independent.  

I guess, for all that ambiguity on my part, for not really caring to be precise, I was spot on with the 455 going away when I implied that it did. COOL! 

But I appreciate the more detailed response from you here!  And I REALLY appreciate you correcting yourself. That is super cool with me! 

I wasn't involved in the building or designing of any motor vehicles; there's no ego involved for me here- either a statement is correct or it's not. I just really enjoy cars. I'll happily walk back any erroneous statements in light of the facts. :D

Oh, and ferrari sucks. ;)

Pictured here with their new Buick.  Please note their apparent ages.  THANK YOU!

On 3/9/2019 at 9:22 AM, balthazar said:

Moar fins is more gooder.  Needs some on the hood also

2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Moar fins is more gooder.  Needs some on the hood also

Yes, and little fins (finlets?) on the roof, along w/ skegs on the rear lower corners..

Hey. That dorsal fin with this greenhouse would have been an ICON (and there was a full-size clay with both) ~
 

On 3/9/2019 at 8:54 AM, ocnblu said:

Pictured here with their new Buick.  Please note their apparent ages.  THANK YOU!

A weird thought, but I always thought it would have been interesting if GM had made a 2dr hardtop with that flat roof and wrap around rear window, as an alternative to the bubble top.

They did (as a coupe- not a hardtop) ~

Also had these (as a 2-dr sedan, not hardtop). They don't work IMO- it's like trying to 'sedan-up' a 2-dr; they're stodgy ~

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

They did (as a coupe- not a hardtop) ~

 

Also had these (as a 2-dr sedan, not hardtop). They don't work IMO- it's like trying to 'sedan-up' a 2-dr; they're stodgy ~

True..the Elco and those '61 2dr sedans were cool...   I like the longer rear window overhang of the '59-60 4r hts, though.  Too bad they didn't have an full size Elco from '61-63.

7 hours ago, balthazar said:

They did (as a coupe- not a hardtop) ~

 

Also had these (as a 2-dr sedan, not hardtop). They don't work IMO- it's like trying to 'sedan-up' a 2-dr; they're stodgy ~

WHOA... Willis, what exactly are you talking abote?  Both of these are fantastic looking vehicles.  I am going on record right nau, letting you know I love that 2-door sedan style.  I would use the (period correct) term DELIGHTFUL to describe it!

7 hours ago, balthazar said:

They did (as a coupe- not a hardtop) ~

 

Also had these (as a 2-dr sedan, not hardtop). They don't work IMO- it's like trying to 'sedan-up' a 2-dr; they're stodgy ~

While not everyone will like them, at least they are different than the bland coupe everywhere cars we have now.

The rear overhang on the 2-sr sedan doesn't show well in that pic- it's pretty huge and I'd bet within a half inch of the 4-dr.
I looked into buying one- a black w/ red interior '61 LeSabre 2-dr sedan but I didn't pull the trigger over the price.

blu - They look very good, but the 'bubble top' 2-dr hardtop is infinitely sexier.