CT4 Pricing Released

Sexy car. Love the new Cadillac front ends with Escala concept cue's. I hear Caddy is moving the 2021 Escalade towards this new design language as well. Great pricing strategy too.

Edited October 9, 20196 yr by USA-1

Oh wow, that seems priced to sell right out of the box. I think they did what all of us thought they should do and price it below competitors(based on size) but basically as much as the competitors(brands) smaller class of vehicle.  

Premium Luxury is the way to go at only a $5k jump over the base model.  They over priced the base model, but they’ll probably have discounts or a lease special to move them.    Not sure if the V is worth it for another $7k for 16 horsepower and bigger brakes and a limited slip diff unless some other stuff is thrown in.

Overpriced the base model?  What do you think of the A Class then? 

The V does seem like less of a bargain but then again the C43 starts at 55k so it is still significantly cheaper than that. Hell, an A45 is 53k. I know that's one hell of a car(A45) but that's one hell of an asking price as well. 

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Overpriced the base model?  What do you think of the A Class then? 

The V does seem like less of a bargain but then again the C43 starts at 55k so it is still significantly cheaper than that. Hell, an A45 is 53k. I know that's one hell of a car(A45) but that's one hell of an asking price as well. 

This should be priced below an A-class if they want them to sell.  Can’t compare this to a C-class as the C is a way better car, plus the CT5 is the C-class competitor.

Plus this is Cadillac, they can’t get German pricing.   Now I didn’t read the whole standard equipment list, if this car is really well equipped on the base model then the price is okay.  But this is basically Tesla Model 3 money without Tesla brand image.

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

This should be priced below an A-class if they want them to sell.  Can’t compare this to a C-class as the C is a way better car, plus the CT5 is the C-class competitor.

Plus this is Cadillac, they can’t get German pricing.   Now I didn’t read the whole standard equipment list, if this car is really well equipped on the base model then the price is okay.  But this is basically Tesla Model 3 money without Tesla brand image.

 

 

So you’ve been in and driven the CT4? Is that why you think the C Class is better? It’s not because you have already made up your mind because well, Mercedes?

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

This should be priced below an A-class if they want them to sell.  Can’t compare this to a C-class as the C is a way better car, plus the CT5 is the C-class competitor.

Plus this is Cadillac, they can’t get German pricing.   Now I didn’t read the whole standard equipment list, if this car is really well equipped on the base model then the price is okay.  But this is basically Tesla Model 3 money without Tesla brand image.

 

 

The C-class is not $10k better. Spend $41k at Benz and you're getting plastic seats and a rather pathetic 4-cylinder with RWD. Spend that at Cadillac and you're getting a well equipped car with a 2.7 liter that has a lot more power. 

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The C-class is not $10k better. Spend $41k at Benz and you're getting plastic seats and a rather pathetic 4-cylinder with RWD. Spend that at Cadillac and you're getting a well equipped car with a 2.7 liter that has a lot more power. 

A Mercedes will last longer, has better resale, better interior, the MB-Tex will last forever.  I would bet $100 to a donut that the C-class will outsell the CT4 even costing $10k more because consumers know it is a better car.    CT5 is the C-class competitor now any way.    

I think CT4 is a decent alternative to an IS or Q50 that undercuts both in price, not those models are dying on the vine.  Kia Stinger and Genesis G70 are at this price point and don’t sell,  Alfa Romeo Guilia has power and performance and doesn’t sell.  CT4 is no different.

No car COSTS you more money per segment than a mercedes- higher service cost, higher parts cost, higher depreciation cost (out of pocket) - it's throwing money away in order to try and impress people you'll never talk to or deal with.

7 hours ago, balthazar said:

No car COSTS you more money per segment than a mercedes- higher service cost, higher parts cost, higher depreciation cost (out of pocket) - it's throwing money away in order to try and impress people you'll never talk to or deal with.

Highest service costs and yet there are 500k miles E-class taxis out there and 500k mile Sprinter vans.  You’d think if maintenance was  an issue FedEx, UPS and Amazon and the taxi companies would either be broke or find something else.

19 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Highest service costs and yet there are 500k miles E-class taxis out there and 500k mile Sprinter vans.  You’d think if maintenance was  an issue FedEx, UPS and Amazon and the taxi companies would either be broke or find something else.

Those are stripped-down diesels, though.  Normal consumers in the US don't buy those.   

Edited October 10, 20196 yr by Robert Hall

16 hours ago, smk4565 said:

This should be priced below an A-class if they want them to sell.  Can’t compare this to a C-class as the C is a way better car, plus the CT5 is the C-class competitor.

Plus this is Cadillac, they can’t get German pricing.   Now I didn’t read the whole standard equipment list, if this car is really well equipped on the base model then the price is okay.  But this is basically Tesla Model 3 money without Tesla brand image.

 

 

They aren't asking German car prices. It is SEVEN THOUSAND DOLLARS LESS. 

1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

Those are stripped-down diesels, though.  Normal consumers in the US don't buy those.   

They don’t but an E-class is an E-class, just because it has Nappa Leather and a digital screen doesn’t mean it has high maintenance costs.   A diesel probably last longer than a gas engine but I have seen 300k mile and up gas Mercedes too.

2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

They aren't asking German car prices. It is SEVEN THOUSAND DOLLARS LESS. 

Right, and you get what you pay for.  I actually thought CT4 should start at $30,990, because Cadillac has to attract buyers.  Going after the Germans for 15 years cost them market share and didn’t work.  They need to go a different direction.

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Highest service costs and yet there are 500k miles E-class taxis out there and 500k mile Sprinter vans.  You’d think if maintenance was  an issue FedEx, UPS and Amazon and the taxi companies would either be broke or find something else.

Those examples can be found at lowly brands like Ford, Chevy, Dodge/Ram, Honda, and Toyota as well. That is nothing that shouldn't be expected with regular maintenance. 

5 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Right, and you get what you pay for.  I actually thought CT4 should start at $30,990, because Cadillac has to attract buyers.  Going after the Germans for 15 years cost them market share and didn’t work.  They need to go a different direction.

Is it not obvious that they are going a different direction, pricing it nearly on top of the A Class, nearly identical to the A3, and less than the 2 Series. 

They are going the route of larger car for the money as the CT4 isn't nearly as small as its similarly priced luxury cars. 

12 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The C-class is not $10k better. Spend $41k at Benz and you're getting plastic seats and a rather pathetic 4-cylinder with RWD. Spend that at Cadillac and you're getting a well equipped car with a 2.7 liter that has a lot more power. 

Worded that a little biased.. that 2.7 is also a 4-cylinder and the Benz 2.0 isn't pathetic at 255hp/273tq and we all know the Germans underrate their outputs. Anything running a 14.1 1/4(per C/D) isn't considered pathetic... 

18 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

They don’t but an E-class is an E-class, just because it has Nappa Leather and a digital screen doesn’t mean it has high maintenance costs.   A diesel probably last longer than a gas engine but I have seen 300k mile and up gas Mercedes too. 

But the consumer E-class likely has far more cabin electronics that will likely fail over time.  But consumers generally don't drive 300k miles;  maybe 35k on a 3 year lease?   And then the 2nd owner is on their own with the horror as the miles accumulate and it goes out of warranty...

Edited October 10, 20196 yr by Robert Hall

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

 You’d think if maintenance was  an issue FedEx, UPS and Amazon and the taxi companies would either be broke or find something else.

Ford sells like 6 times the volume of Transits than mb does in the US; companies have already moved on from the freightliner vans. Then theres the Transit Connect. MB is playing catch up and it’s not working.

As far as high mileage goes, A woman drove her ‘64 Merc Comet to about 600,000 and a taxi driver took his early ‘60s Plymouth to 1,600,000 miles.

7 minutes ago, balthazar said:

 As far as high mileage goes, A woman drove her ‘64 Merc Comet to about 600,000 and a taxi driver took his early ‘60s Plymouth to 1,600,000 miles.

Those are weird edge cases, though...most drivers didn't rack up those kind of miles on cars of that era...

German car maintenance costs are irrelevant because consumers just don’t care.  The top 3 selling luxury brands in the world are German, 3 of the top 4 in the USA are German and it took Lexus being #1 in reliability for 10-15 years to get a reputation that was mostly built off Toyota.  And even today Lexus lives off 2 Camry platform products for a significant portion of their sales.  Lexus IS dead in the water with their products that start over $50k.

Cadillac is making the right move with larger car for less money, I think for what CT4 is it should have been even less money or else had more equipment standard.  Like automatic braking and other safety items should be standard for a $34k asking price.

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

They don’t but an E-class is an E-class, just because it has Nappa Leather and a digital screen doesn’t mean it has high maintenance costs.   A diesel probably last longer than a gas engine but I have seen 300k mile and up gas Mercedes too.

Right, and you get what you pay for.  I actually thought CT4 should start at $30,990, because Cadillac has to attract buyers.  Going after the Germans for 15 years cost them market share and didn’t work.  They need to go a different direction.

Mercedes is the epitome of high maintenance costs. Part for those sold here come from overseas, increasing said costs right off the bat, plus the fact that being an import luxury car, well everything is expensive on it. This is not even debatable unless you're a fanboy who doesn't want to acknowledge simple facts. The fact is that Mercedes and BMW (which is the highest to maintain btw) are the most expensive cars to maintain. A simple Google search will help you see this fact.

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Worded that a little biased.. that 2.7 is also a 4-cylinder and the Benz 2.0 isn't pathetic at 255hp/273tq and we all know the Germans underrate their outputs. Anything running a 14.1 1/4(per C/D) isn't considered pathetic... 

He wasn't talking about just the powertrain offering though. His statements, when taken in its entirety and not cherry picked, are accurate.

12 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Mercedes is the epitome of high maintenance costs. Part for those sold here come from overseas, increasing said costs right off the bat, plus the fact that being an import luxury car, well everything is expensive on it. This is not even debatable unless you're a fanboy who doesn't want to acknowledge simple facts. The fact is that Mercedes and BMW (which is the highest to maintain btw) are the most expensive cars to maintain. A simple Google search will help you see this fact.

He wasn't talking about just the powertrain offering though. His statements, when taken in its entirety and not cherry picked, are accurate.

Even if BMW and Mercedes are the 2 most expensive are to maintain, it doesn’t matter.  They are the 2 best selling luxury brands in the world and in the USA.  And this is nothing new in terms of their.costs or their sales level.  
 

So how does Cadillac get sales?  Cadillacs cost less to buy and less to maintain yet they still don’t sell well.   

17 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

He wasn't talking about just the powertrain offering though. His statements, when taken in its entirety and not cherry picked, are accurate.

I know. it was just the wording of "pathetic" and "4-cylinder". 

The engine isn't pathetic.

Bother are 4-cylinders.

I know the 2.7T is a better engine, the car offers a lot more for the money, etc. etc. 

13 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Even if BMW and Mercedes are the 2 most expensive are to maintain, it doesn’t matter.  They are the 2 best selling luxury brands in the world and in the USA.  And this is nothing new in terms of their.costs or their sales level.  
 

So how does Cadillac get sales?  Cadillacs cost less to buy and less to maintain yet they still don’t sell well.   

Good grief man. You must getting tired from all that bar moving. Now that you have acknowledged that they are the most expensive to maintain, you try to deflect towards Cadillac and act like maintenance cost don't matter (because it doesn't suit your argument anymore). The reason for them doing better than Cadillac has been well discussed. It's called badge snobbery, mostly, with the other part being not as many models as the other two. It's simple math. While we talking about sales though, try that logic on the Escalade which outsells both competitors from BMW and Benz.

18 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I know. it was just the wording of "pathetic" and "4-cylinder". 

The engine isn't pathetic.

Bother are 4-cylinders.

I know the 2.7T is a better engine, the car offers a lot more for the money, etc. etc. 

Fair point but it should be pointed out that the C Class is a tick slower on that quarter mile than the now defunct ATS (with the 2.0L, it clocks in at 14.0 per MT) while being almost $10K more. The point here is that for $10K more, it should do better than that. You are paying more for less and all with pleather seats lol.

First I doubt Mercedes is the most expensive to maintain, I had more stuff break on my GM vehicle than I have had on my Mercedes, my mom is on her 2nd Mercedes, and it has been more reliable than anything she had from Saab,  Volvo or Audi.  My friend has a Mercedes,  I problems.  JD Power Almost always has Mercedes ranked in the top 10 of all cars.  That brand image wouldn’t exist if they built crap that broke all the time.

If all it takes to have a successful luxury brand is a badge, why doesn’t Cadillac have badge snobs?  

33 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Fair point but it should be pointed out that the C Class is a tick slower on that quarter mile than the now defunct ATS (with the 2.0L, it clocks in at 14.0 per MT) while being almost $10K more. The point here is that for $10K more, it should do better than that. You are paying more for less and all with pleather seats lol.

Also a fair point but wasn't that the "old" 2.0T? I'd assume the new 2.0T will be a little slower being down ~30hp/20tq. Either way, neither is "pathetic" for a base engine. 

Yeah, I'm definitely not saying the price difference is worth it...just stating that their 2.0T isn't "pathetic". 

FWIW, my Mercedes was the only vehicle I've had things break on me that wasn't a typical wear item. 

3 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

Those are weird edge cases, though...most drivers didn't rack up those kind of miles on cars of that era...

And most merceds drivers don't rack up 300K+ either.
Point was, any car, most any vintage (well maintained) can do it.  It's not a selling point of one brand over another.
 

Surprised, but in a good way.

Also think the base model should be offered with a quickie sport package to give it pop for cheap.....

Whichever way someone wants to look at this, that's still a good entry level price for a Cadillac in 2020 ... that isn't a Cimarron.

On 10/10/2019 at 9:53 AM, ccap41 said:

Worded that a little biased.. that 2.7 is also a 4-cylinder and the Benz 2.0 isn't pathetic at 255hp/273tq and we all know the Germans underrate their outputs. Anything running a 14.1 1/4(per C/D) isn't considered pathetic... 

I drove the A-Class yesterday... I would call the power "sufficient", not not for the price they're asking. 

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I drove the A-Class yesterday... I would call the power "sufficient", not not for the price they're asking. 

I think they should have the 220 hp version in there.  I have drive. The previous CLA250 and GLA, I think those are 208 hp, they are fine for daily driving, but nothing fast.  I imagine the 188 hp in the A seems like it needs another 20-30 hp.  And that is all tuning so I don’t see why not change it.
 

3 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I think they should have the 220 hp version in there.  I have drive. The previous CLA250 and GLA, I think those are 208 hp, they are fine for daily driving, but nothing fast.  I imagine the 188 hp in the A seems like it needs another 20-30 hp.  And that is all tuning so I don’t see why not change it.
 

It will feel under powered next to the CT4. 

8 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

It will feel under powered next to the CT4. 

Probably so with the A-class that is why it should have the 221 hp version of that engine, the CLA250 has the same torque rating at the CT4.  There are A35 and A45 versions but I'd like to see how those get priced.

I don't think the A-class needs a ton of power because they are appealing to people that never owned a Mercedes and are coming from a some sort of front drive 4 cylinder car.  But 188 hp is weak, should have been the 221.

On 10/9/2019 at 2:33 PM, smk4565 said:

This should be priced below an A-class if they want them to sell.  Can’t compare this to a C-class as the C is a way better car, plus the CT5 is the C-class competitor.

Plus this is Cadillac, they can’t get German pricing.   Now I didn’t read the whole standard equipment list, if this car is really well equipped on the base model then the price is okay.  But this is basically Tesla Model 3 money without Tesla brand image.

 

 

The new CT4 and CT5 haven't even officially come out, yet you're already saying the C Class is a better car, how can you possibly know that? You really should sit in or drive a new Cadillac before you say that, you just might be surprised. 

"Plus this is Cadillac, they can't get German pricing" Escalade Premium Luxury and Platinum, CTS-V and CT6-V are close, but don't have to get the German price premium to be as good or better even though MB doesn't even have an Escalade equivalent. CT5-V Blackwing and CT6-V Blackwing also don't have to get the German price premium to have better performance and build quality. GM isn't messing around, current Cadillac's and the C8 Corvette build quality and performance prove that.

11 hours ago, USA-1 said:

The new CT4 and CT5 haven't even officially come out, yet you're already saying the C Class is a better car, how can you possibly know that? You really should sit in or drive a new Cadillac before you say that, you just might be surprised. 

"Plus this is Cadillac, they can't get German pricing" Escalade Premium Luxury and Platinum, CTS-V and CT6-V are close, but don't have to get the German price premium to be as good or better even though MB doesn't even have an Escalade equivalent. CT5-V Blackwing and CT6-V Blackwing also don't have to get the German price premium to have better performance and build quality. GM isn't messing around, current Cadillac's and the C8 Corvette build quality and performance prove that.

 

I have a pretty good feeling the C-class is going to be better than CT4 or CT5 based on Cadillac not having build a sedan better than the Germans in the past 40 years. I'm not sure they all of a sudden found the secret sauce to build a world beater.  

They are killing the CTS and probably the CT6, unless they import CT6's from China next year, and the CT5 is priced below a C-class because Cadillac knew they had to cut prices.  Which I think is the best strategy for them.  Cadillac should be targeting Acura, Infiniti, Genesis, Lincoln, etc, not the Germans.  

  An Escalade Platinum with options is about $101k, and that is their most expensive product.  A Mercedes GLC 63 Coupe costs that, Porsche has cars that cost 3 times that.  Even at GM, the most expensive car is at Chevrolet, it isn't even a Cadillac.  

22 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I have a pretty good feeling the C-class is going to be better than CT4 or CT5 based on Cadillac not having build a sedan better than the Germans in the past 40 years. I'm not sure they all of a sudden found the secret sauce to build a world beater.  

They are killing the CTS and probably the CT6, unless they import CT6's from China next year, and the CT5 is priced below a C-class because Cadillac knew they had to cut prices.  Which I think is the best strategy for them.  Cadillac should be targeting Acura, Infiniti, Genesis, Lincoln, etc, not the Germans.  

  An Escalade Platinum with options is about $101k, and that is their most expensive product.  A Mercedes GLC 63 Coupe costs that, Porsche has cars that cost 3 times that.  Even at GM, the most expensive car is at Chevrolet, it isn't even a Cadillac.  

 

"I have a pretty good feeling" is definitely your biased opinion, so your statement is pointless. CTS-V beat the M5 and E63 AMG multiple times on the track both with handling and quickness for less money and in many ways better build quality, so to say Cadillac hasn't built a better sedan is again your biased opinion. Performance per dollar Cadillac smokes the German's and they know it. My family has had BMW 5 Series cars in the past and now have Cadillac's so I'm speaking from experience on both sides. Is that something you can say?    

They are replacing the CTS with the CT5 and the ATS with the CT4 both new platforms that coincide with their alpha numeric system so nothing is being killed just improved upon.

The CT6 is not going away just because GM discontinued the older XTS that was built in the same factory as the CT6. CT6 is here to stay and will be built in another factory, yes I know this because I know people that work for Cadillac. Since Acura and Lincoln cars are FWD or FWD based AWD (yes even the Continental) and Cadillac is RWD or RWD based AWD like your darling MB, then no you are wrong again. Infiniti is nearly extinct and way behind Cadillac and Genesis is still trying to figure out who they are and are not on the same level as Cadillac, Genesis even knows that. Cadillac and even MB have had over a century on the road, yes, Cadillac lost their way under the old guard bean counters at GM in the late 80's and 90's, but the past 15 years prove that they're building world class luxury cars and SUV's to compete on the world stage and there's definitely more in the pipeline, luxury EV's etc...

FYI, an Escalade Platinum is $106k and a loaded 2020 CT6-V Blackwing coming out early next year is right at $108k, all real time information just received by my Cadillac connection. So that shows that your smaller less performance oriented MB GLC Coupe is way overpriced like many MB's. Yes, GM as a whole can produce many more models that cover most all areas of the automobile from pickup trucks to budget cars to high-end luxury models and Cadillac will be here well into the future to continue to challenge BMW's and MB's and once again beat them on the track, have better reliability and performance per dollar.  

1 hour ago, USA-1 said:

"I have a pretty good feeling" is definitely your biased opinion, so your statement is pointless. CTS-V beat the M5 and E63 AMG multiple times on the track both with handling and quickness for less money and in many ways better build quality, so to say Cadillac hasn't built a better sedan is again your biased opinion. Performance per dollar Cadillac smokes the German's and they know it. My family has had BMW 5 Series cars in the past and now have Cadillac's so I'm speaking from experience on both sides. Is that something you can say?    

They are replacing the CTS with the CT5 and the ATS with the CT4 both new platforms that coincide with their alpha numeric system so nothing is being killed just improved upon.

The CT6 is not going away just because GM discontinued the older XTS that was built in the same factory as the CT6. CT6 is here to stay and will be built in another factory, yes I know this because I know people that work for Cadillac. Since Acura and Lincoln cars are FWD or FWD based AWD (yes even the Continental) and Cadillac is RWD or RWD based AWD like your darling MB, then no you are wrong again. Infiniti is nearly extinct and way behind Cadillac and Genesis is still trying to figure out who they are and are not on the same level as Cadillac, Genesis even knows that. Cadillac and even MB have had over a century on the road, yes, Cadillac lost their way under the old guard bean counters at GM in the late 80's and 90's, but the past 15 years prove that they're building world class luxury cars and SUV's to compete on the world stage and there's definitely more in the pipeline, luxury EV's etc...

FYI, an Escalade Platinum is $106k and a loaded 2020 CT6-V Blackwing coming out early next year is right at $108k, all real time information just received by my Cadillac connection. So that shows that your smaller less performance oriented MB GLC Coupe is way overpriced like many MB's. Yes, GM as a whole can produce many more models that cover most all areas of the automobile from pickup trucks to budget cars to high-end luxury models and Cadillac will be here well into the future to continue to challenge BMW's and MB's and once again beat them on the track, have better reliability and performance per dollar.  

CTS-V is slower than an M5 or E63 in a straight line, CTS-V also isn’t around anymore and the E63 and M5 still are.  Also the E63 wagon has the Nürburgring record for wagons, the AMG GT 4-door has the Nürburgring record for 4-door cars. 
 

With no insider information I think GM will find a way to keep CT6 around, but you never know what the bean counters will decide.  $100k is a lot for a Cadillac but almost all the euro luxury brands have $200k products.  Cadillac isn’t in tier 1 until they get up there.  And I also think Cadillac should focus on tier 2 and try to dominate it and not go after tier 1.  
 

Cadillac had better market share 15-20 years ago than they do today, chasing the Germans didn’t work, which is why you see their top 3 sellers as FWD crossovers to go after Acura and Lexus now.

In a straight line? Seriously? It's .4 sec. difference and CTS-V smokes them on the track with the badass GM Alpha 2 chassis and it's still available on the Cadillac website to order and purchase, ATS is gone on the site. the CT5-V Blackwing and CT6-V Blackwing are picking up where ATS-V and CTS-V left off. I'm talking about mid size sedans and so were you until you just now brought up wagons and we don't care about wagons in this country, they don't sell well with any manf.

I just stated above that the CT6 is for sure staying per word I got from a GM/Cadillac insider. The $100k Cadillac's are worth all that and some and it's a bargain when it's staying with or besting the $200k euro cars. S Class is way overpriced being over $200k now, not saying it's not pretty nice inside, just not $200k nice all around.

There was a lot less competition 20 years ago in this country. There was no Tesla, Cadillac and Mercedes as well as other luxury makes have lost sales to them, Volvo was nearly extinct and has made huge strides in the last 5-10 years, there was no Genesis formerly Hyundai Genesis (again trying to figure out who they are) even though they aren't on the same level with their horrendous chassis they do sell as a luxury make and Mercedes didn't have 900 different models to get buried in (being sarcastic, but seriously way too many). FWD/AWD luxury crossovers sell well here, the XT4 and XT5 have been selling really well XT4 is 4th overall right now hanging with the Audi Q5, Lexus NX and Volvo XC60 out of 19 other makes/models in small luxury SUV sales , XT6 which is just launching will sell well too and the new 2021 Escalade is going to be amazing. Don't forget the GLA based off the CLA is a FWD/AWD crossover so it too would be going after XT4, Q5 and NX.