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    William Maley

    German Legislators Want To Ban Gas and Diesel Powered Vehicles By 2030

      Germany's legislative body has put a countdown clock on gas and diesel vehicles

    Members of Germany's government have passed a resolution that could mean the end of gas and diesel vehicles. German newspaper Der Spiegel reports that the Germany's legislative body, the Bundesrat (represents all sixteen states in the country) passed a resolution to ban the sale of gas and diesel engines in 2030. After that, only zero-emission vehicles will be allowed to be built. 

    The resolution also calls on the European Union to follow in their footsteps. But the Bundesrat doesn't have any direct authority over the EU. However, Forbes points out that Germany has the largest government and most powerful economy in the EU. This means any legislation that goes through Germany will in turn influence the EU.

    In the resolution, the Bundesrat requests the EU to "review the current practices of taxation and dues with regard to a stimulation of emission-free mobility." Forbes notes this would include possibly scrapping the lower taxes a number of member states employ for diesel. Higher taxes would likely cause people to avoid diesel vehicles.

    SourceDer Spiegel, Forbes

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    Fools.  Someone(s) is clearly trying to get a leg-up in their political careers. I swear, politics will be the downfall of modern civilization.

     

    I won’t even bother to read the article, because a headline like that angers me.

    Banning ICE after they have become, so clean and will soon get cleaner yet, will mean literally squat in the global scenario.  And that must obviously include hybrids too.  Ban Diesel, perhaps, but not clean PZEV gas engines.  And what about motorsports and boats and……..So what’s left, EV and it’s many limitations?

    Pathetic.

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    1 hour ago, Wings4Life said:

     

     

    Fools.  Someone(s) is clearly trying to get a leg-up in their political careers. I swear, politics will be the downfall of modern civilization.

     

     

     

    I won’t even bother to read the article, because a headline like that angers me.

     

    Banning ICE after they have become, so clean and will soon get cleaner yet, will mean literally squat in the global scenario.  And that must obviously include hybrids too.  Ban Diesel, perhaps, but not clean PZEV gas engines.  And what about motorsports and boats and……..So what’s left, EV and it’s many limitations?

     

    Pathetic.

     

    I feel just the opposite.  Fossil fuels are inherently dirty and nasty, and Europe has a high population density.  This is infinitely rational.

    It would also be really nice if the Untied States would follow suit.  Allow older ICE cars to still roam, but everything sold from 2029 onward must be electric.

     

    Grandfathering in the older stuff would ensure no ones essential rights to drive their current car were violated, and it would also get us away from importing oil-a huge source of our trade deficit.

    Do not want this sent off to politics, but so very tired of personally supporting other countries every time I fill up.

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    1 hour ago, Wings4Life said:

    Fools.  Someone(s) is clearly trying to get a leg-up in their political careers. I swear, politics will be the downfall of modern civilization.

    I won’t even bother to read the article, because a headline like that angers me.

    Banning ICE after they have become, so clean and will soon get cleaner yet, will mean literally squat in the global scenario.  And that must obviously include hybrids too.  Ban Diesel, perhaps, but not clean PZEV gas engines.  And what about motorsports and boats and……..So what’s left, EV and it’s many limitations?

    Pathetic.

    Whether you like it or not, fossil fuel auto's and trucks are coming to the end of their life. I covered the MB Semi's and that Japan has medium duty EV trucks. This is a perfect solution for city delivery, no noise, no pollution in the face of people walking the streets. It will not end immediately, but even if they stop building fossil fuel auto's and trucks in 2030. they will still have them on the road for a while.

    Yet the future is coming and change is going to happen.

     

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    37 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    Whether you like it or not, fossil fuel auto's and trucks are coming to the end of their life. I covered the MB Semi's and that Japan has medium duty EV trucks. This is a perfect solution for city delivery, no noise, no pollution in the face of people walking the streets. It will not end immediately, but even if they stop building fossil fuel auto's and trucks in 2030. they will still have them on the road for a while.

    Yet the future is coming and change is going to happen.

     

     

    Yeah, I recall hearing that we would run out of oil like 20 years ago too.

    And that we would all be in solar powered flying cars.

     

    Oil will be around for many generations after you and I.  Like, many, many generations.  This is extreme and radical thinking.

     

     

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    28 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

    Yeah, I recall hearing that we would run out of oil like 20 years ago too.

    And that we would all be in solar powered flying cars.

    Oil will be around for many generations after you and I.  Like, many, many generations.  This is extreme and radical thinking.

    What is wrong with extreme and radical thinking? If it helps cool the planet and clean up the air, then why not change to a better way of transportation and help out the planet, help out those that have lung issues. Why not radically change to make things better?

    I was behind two semi's this morning and 4 school buses going off to pick up their kids. Amazing the amount of Diesel smell and pollution that was sent out when the light turned green.

    Why not remove this from the streets and have silent auto's that do not cause you to breath that toxic waste into your lungs?

    End result, is not all radical extreme thinking is bad, especially when it comes to the health of my fellow man and woman. Cleaner air for all.

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    32 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    What is wrong with extreme and radical thinking? If it helps cool the planet and clean up the air, then why not change to a better way of transportation and help out the planet, help out those that have lung issues. Why not radically change to make things better?

    I was behind two semi's this morning and 4 school buses going off to pick up their kids. Amazing the amount of Diesel smell and pollution that was sent out when the light turned green.

    Why not remove this from the streets and have silent auto's that do not cause you to breath that toxic waste into your lungs?

    End result, is not all radical extreme thinking is bad, especially when it comes to the health of my fellow man and woman. Cleaner air for all.

    Cleaner air.  Sounds good.  That is not radical, at all.  The ways of going about it are and they also, more importantly, won’t work.

     

    I am also for curing or at least reducing the ill effects of the flu.  But not by cutting off someone’s head.

     

    You just complained of stinky Diesel, yet cheered their idea of killing gas ICE.  How about they offer gas for cheaper in Eu, so that people start buying more, instead of Diesel which is cheaper and far more harmful to health and air.  There is a simple start.  Air is quickly improved without tearing the heart out of the industry, which is what a radical move would do.  Then allow a slow migration into more hybrids and EV’s, rather than criminalize one or the other.

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    1 minute ago, Wings4Life said:

    Cleaner air.  Sounds good.  That is not radical, at all.  The ways of going about it are and they also, more importantly, won’t work.

    I am also for curing or at least reducing the ill effects of the flu.  But not by cutting off someone’s head.

    You just complained of stinky Diesel, yet cheered their idea of killing gas ICE.  How about they offer gas for cheaper in Eu, so that people start buying more, instead of Diesel which is cheaper and far more harmful to health and air.  There is a simple start.  Air is quickly improved without tearing the heart out of the industry, which is what a radical move would do.  Then allow a slow migration into more hybrids and EV’s, rather than criminalize one or the other.

    Valid point well taken, cheaper Petro rather than diesel would do wonders. Also changing how they tax engine size would help too.

    Overall, I think they could come up with a much better tax solution than they currently have. But step in right direction would be to tax diesel higher and lower on petro.

    I understand your desire to move slowly as people choose to buy hybrids / ev's.

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    2 hours ago, Frisky Dingo said:

    As long as I can keep my gas-powered cars and still drive them freely, I honestly couldn't care less.

     

    That said, it won't happen.

    It may not happen all the way but chances are good for a significant transition.

     

    1 hour ago, dfelt said:

    What is wrong with extreme and radical thinking? If it helps cool the planet and clean up the air, then why not change to a better way of transportation and help out the planet, help out those that have lung issues. Why not radically change to make things better?

    I was behind two semi's this morning and 4 school buses going off to pick up their kids. Amazing the amount of Diesel smell and pollution that was sent out when the light turned green.

    Why not remove this from the streets and have silent auto's that do not cause you to breath that toxic waste into your lungs?

    End result, is not all radical extreme thinking is bad, especially when it comes to the health of my fellow man and woman. Cleaner air for all.

    Agree completely with this!

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    28 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    Valid point well taken, cheaper Petro rather than diesel would do wonders. Also changing how they tax engine size would help too.

    Overall, I think they could come up with a much better tax solution than they currently have. But step in right direction would be to tax diesel higher and lower on petro.

    I understand your desire to move slowly as people choose to buy hybrids / ev's.

    Thanks dfelt, and I too understand your desire to fix global problems quickly.  But they have to be carefully thought out, and before we take giant steps that impact so many people and industry, costing them untold billions to adopt and certainly hardships along the way…..why evaluate and try simple ideas.  It’s not like we have not done plenty in the last 20 years alone.  Who knows where we will be in another 20,

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    7 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

    Thanks dfelt, and I too understand your desire to fix global problems quickly.  But they have to be carefully thought out, and before we take giant steps that impact so many people and industry, costing them untold billions to adopt and certainly hardships along the way…..why evaluate and try simple ideas.  It’s not like we have not done plenty in the last 20 years alone.  Who knows where we will be in another 20,

     

    And this is excellent, rational thinking. I wish I could up vote it ten times rather than just once. We need rational debate and thoughtful interaction.

     

    That being said, with Britain out of the EU and Germany as the most powerful member, i do wonder how much impact this will have on the other countries and on EU policy as a whole.

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    As Germany goes, so will go the EU.  They have so much influence, they hold up the EU economy.  Sweden and Norway were looking at gas powered car sales bans around 2025, so other countries are on board.  I think 2025 is too soon, but 2030 is still 13+ years away, by then electric cars will be much more viable and affordable.  Eventually all cars will be EV, they are just pushing the envelop faster.

    The other thing to consider is they can say by 2030 they will ban gas cars, then in 2025, they can say we'll push it back to 2032 to give automakers more time, but you have to put that deadline out there, you can always push back, but you can't pull a deadline ahead.

     

    I am fine with an all EV car fleet, less pollution is great, less noise is great, less buying oil of all the corrupt governments and terrorists of the Middle East is great too.   It will be a big win all around when we all have EV cars.  The EV cars just have to be affordable, you have to have $20,000 EV cars for people.

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    1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

    As Germany goes, so will go the EU.  They have so much influence, they hold up the EU economy.  Sweden and Norway were looking at gas powered car sales bans around 2025, so other countries are on board.  I think 2025 is too soon, but 2030 is still 13+ years away, by then electric cars will be much more viable and affordable.  Eventually all cars will be EV, they are just pushing the envelop faster.

    The other thing to consider is they can say by 2030 they will ban gas cars, then in 2025, they can say we'll push it back to 2032 to give automakers more time, but you have to put that deadline out there, you can always push back, but you can't pull a deadline ahead.

     

    I am fine with an all EV car fleet, less pollution is great, less noise is great, less buying oil of all the corrupt governments and terrorists of the Middle East is great too.   It will be a big win all around when we all have EV cars.  The EV cars just have to be affordable, you have to have $20,000 EV cars for people.

    Agreed!

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    automakers are currently working on 2020 and beyond. So basically, they would have less than 10 years to prepare.  It's ridiculous to push it so fast.  Nothing will change in 10 years. Nothing will likely change in 100 and I would bet, if possible, very little in 500.  So again, why 10 years.  That is just economic suicide, for absolutely nothing.

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    The Issue is battery technology, Lithium is not a renewable resource nor is it environmentally friendly to mine. The batteries themselves degrade over time and need replacement after 5 yrs. I know 13 years is a long time but long strides need to be made if we want to sustain our current standard expectations from our vehicles.

     

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    2 hours ago, Cremazie said:

    The Issue is battery technology, Lithium is not a renewable resource nor is it environmentally friendly to mine. The batteries themselves degrade over time and need replacement after 5 yrs. I know 13 years is a long time but long strides need to be made if we want to sustain our current standard expectations from our vehicles.

     

    We will continue to make progress.

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      At the heart of its Reimagine plan will be the electrification of both Land Rover and Jaguar brands on separate architectures with two clear, unique personalities.
      In a Land Rover, vehicle and driver are united by adventure. By breaking new ground, confronting new challenges and not being content with the expected, Land Rover truly helps people to go ‘Above and Beyond’. In the next five years, Land Rover will welcome six pure electric variants as it continues to be the world leader of luxury SUVs through its three families of Range Rover, Discovery and Defender. The first all-electric variant will arrive in 2024.
      By the middle of the decade, Jaguar will have undergone a renaissance to emerge as a pure electric luxury brand with a dramatically beautiful new portfolio of emotionally engaging designs and pioneering next-generation technologies. Jaguar will exist to make life extraordinary by creating dramatically beautiful automotive experiences that leave its customers feeling unique and rewarded. Although the nameplate may be retained, the planned Jaguar XJ replacement will not form part of the line-up, as the brand looks to realise its unique potential.
      Jaguar and Land Rover will offer pure electric power, nameplate by nameplate, by 2030. By this time, in addition to 100% of Jaguar sales, it is anticipated that around 60% of Land Rovers sold will be equipped with zero tailpipe powertrains.
      Jaguar Land Rover’s aim is to achieve net zero carbon emissions across its supply chain, products and operations by 2039. As part of this ambition, the company is also preparing for the expected adoption of clean fuel-cell power in line with a maturing of the hydrogen economy. Development is already underway with prototypes arriving on UK roads within the next 12 months as part of the long-term investment programme.
      Sustainability that delivers a new benchmark in environmental and societal impact for the luxury sector is fundamental to the success of Reimagine. A new centralised team will be empowered to build on and accelerate pioneering innovations in materiality, engineering, manufacturing, services and circular economy investments. 
      Annual commitments of circa £2.5bn will include investments in electrification technologies and the development of connected services to enhance the journey and experiences of customers, alongside data-centric technologies that will further improve their ownership ecosystem.
      Proven services like the flexible PIVOTAL subscription model (which has grown 750% during the fiscal year), born out of Jaguar Land Rover’s incubator and investor arm, InMotion, will now be rolled out to other markets following a successful launch in the UK.
      Quality and efficiency
      Reimagine will see Jaguar Land Rover establish new benchmark standards in quality and efficiency for the luxury sector by rightsizing, repurposing and reorganising.
      Central to that journey, and in order to establish different personalities for the two brands, is the new architecture strategy. 
      Land Rover will use the forthcoming flex Modular Longitudinal Architecture (MLA). It will deliver electrified internal combustion engines (ICE) and full electric variants as the company evolves its product line-up in the future. In addition, Land Rover will also use pure electric biased Electric Modular Architecture (EMA) which will also support advanced electrified ICE.
      Future Jaguar models will be built exclusively on a pure electric architecture.
      Reimagine is designed to deliver simplification too. By consolidating the number of platforms and models being produced per plant, the company will be able to establish new benchmark standards in efficient scale and quality for the luxury sector. Such an approach will help rationalise sourcing and accelerate investments in local circular economy supply chains.
      From a core manufacturing perspective that means Jaguar Land Rover will retain its plant and assembly facilities in the home UK market and around the world. As well as being the manufacturer of the MLA architecture, Solihull, West Midlands will also be the home to the future advanced Jaguar pure electric platform. 
      Key partners including Trade Unions, retailers and those in the supply chain will continue to play a vital part of the extended new Jaguar Land Rover ecosystem and its journey towards reimagining the future of modern luxury.
      ReFocus to a more agile operation
      As evidenced with the latest financial results, Jaguar Land Rover has a strong foundation on which to build a sustainable and resilient business for its customers and their communities, partners, employees, shareholders and the environment.
      Driving this transformation is the recently launched Refocus programme, by consolidating existing initiatives like Charge+ with new cross-functional activities.
      Reimagine will see Jaguar Land Rover right-size, repurpose and reorganise into a more agile operation. The creation of a flatter structure is designed to empower employees to create and deliver at speed and with clear purpose.
      To accelerate this efficiency of focus, the company will substantially reduce and rationalise its non-manufacturing infrastructure in the UK. Gaydon will become the symbol of this effort – the ‘reactor’ of the business - with the Executive Team and other management functions moving into the one location to aid frictionless cooperation and agile decision-making.  
      Leapfrog to leadership with Tata Group
      In order to realise its vision of modern luxury mobility with confidence, the company will curate closer collaboration and knowledge-sharing with Tata Group companies to enhance sustainability and reduce emissions as well as sharing best practice in next-generation technology, data and software development leadership. Jaguar Land Rover has been a wholly-owned subsidiary of Tata Motors, in which Tata Sons is the largest shareholder, since 2008.
      “We have so many ingredients from within. It is a unique opportunity,” said Mr Bolloré. “Others have to rely solely on external partnerships and compromise, but we have frictionless access that will allow us to lean forward with confidence and at speed.”
      Bringing all these ingredients together, Jaguar Land Rover is on a path towards double-digit EBIT margins and positive cash flow, with an ambition to achieve positive cash net-of-debt by 2025. 
      Ultimately, Jaguar Land Rover aims to be one of the most profitable luxury manufacturers in the world.
      Mr N Chandrasekaran, Chairman of Tata Sons, Tata Motors and Jaguar Land Rover Automotive plc commented: “The Reimagine strategy takes Jaguar Land Rover on a significant path of acceleration in harmony with the vision and sustainability priorities of the wider Tata Group. Together, we will help Jaguar realise its potential, reinforce Land Rover’s timeless appeal and collectively become a symbol of a truly responsible business for its customers, society and the planet.”
      Mr Bolloré concluded: “As a human-centred company, we can, and will, move much faster and with clear purpose of not just reimagining modern luxury but defining it for two distinct brands. Brands that present emotionally unique designs, pieces of art if you like, but all with connected technologies and responsible materials that collectively set new standards in ownership. We are reimagining a new modern luxury by design.”
    • By Drew Dowdell
      The EPA has officially released its assessment of the 2020 Jeep Wrangler EcoDiesel. The EcoDiesel is only available as a 4-door with an 8-speed automatic and in that configuration, the EcoDiesel manages to get 29 mpg highway, 22 mpg city, and 25 combined. That is slightly better than a 4x4 Ram 1500 with the same powertrain. The next closest model in terms of fuel efficiency is the 2-door, 4-cylinder, manual transmission, rear-wheel drive Wrangler at 24 highway mpg, 22 city mpg, and 23 combined. 
      The diesel engine is a $4,000 option though so you may not ultimately save money. Instead, Jeep believes the EcoDiesel option is best suited for those who need the gobs of torque generated by the V6 diesel when going off-road. With 260 horsepower and 442 lb.-ft of torque, the Wrangler EcoDiesel has torque in spades. To the dismay of many, the Ecodiesel does come standard with electronic stop/start.
      If diesel isn't your thing, there is the 2.0T 4-cylinder which produces 270 horsepower and 295 lb.-ft of torque or the 3.6-liter Pentastar V6 which produces 285 horsepower and 260 lb.-ft of torque.  Both engines also come with stop/start or can be upgraded to the eTorque system that smooths out the torque band and either engine is available with a manual transmission or 8-speed automatic.
       

      View full article
    • By Drew Dowdell
      The EPA has officially released its assessment of the 2020 Jeep Wrangler EcoDiesel. The EcoDiesel is only available as a 4-door with an 8-speed automatic and in that configuration, the EcoDiesel manages to get 29 mpg highway, 22 mpg city, and 25 combined. That is slightly better than a 4x4 Ram 1500 with the same powertrain. The next closest model in terms of fuel efficiency is the 2-door, 4-cylinder, manual transmission, rear-wheel drive Wrangler at 24 highway mpg, 22 city mpg, and 23 combined. 
      The diesel engine is a $4,000 option though so you may not ultimately save money. Instead, Jeep believes the EcoDiesel option is best suited for those who need the gobs of torque generated by the V6 diesel when going off-road. With 260 horsepower and 442 lb.-ft of torque, the Wrangler EcoDiesel has torque in spades. To the dismay of many, the Ecodiesel does come standard with electronic stop/start.
      If diesel isn't your thing, there is the 2.0T 4-cylinder which produces 270 horsepower and 295 lb.-ft of torque or the 3.6-liter Pentastar V6 which produces 285 horsepower and 260 lb.-ft of torque.  Both engines also come with stop/start or can be upgraded to the eTorque system that smooths out the torque band and either engine is available with a manual transmission or 8-speed automatic.
       
    • By Drew Dowdell
      As we reported last month, Jeep is adding a diesel to the Wrangler lineup.  The 3.0-liter diesel will produce 260 horsepower and 442 lb-ft of torque and be paired only with the 8-speed automatic. Electronic Start-Stop is also standard issue. 
      As for how much it is going to cost, be prepared to shell out up to an additional $6,000 over the base model.  It breaks down like this:  $4,000 for the diesel engine + $2,000 for the automatic transmission.  All in all, it ends up being a $3,250 upgrade over a Wrangler with a Pentastar V6 and 8-speed automatic.   The diesel will only be offered in 4-door trims of Sport, Sahara, and Rubicon.  In the RAM 1500 with the same powertrain, highway fuel economy is rated for 30mpg. Expect the lighter but less aerodynamic Wrangler to match that once EPA numbers are finalized.
      Diesel Wranglers start down the production line in late November, but the order books are already open if you want to head down to the dealer and put your order in. 
  • Posts

    • And READ my post.   *On one hand you say and SUV like your friends Infiniti is perfectly fine for hauling stuff because all you need is a tarp and a vacuum.   *On the other hand you say that this cannot be done with a Suburban for a different set of reasons.   If you don't the issue I have here, then perhaps we need to move on from this because we are not going to see eye to eye here if you don't that issue.   Again, vehicles like the Hyundai Santa Cruz do have multiple uses for multiple types of people. You just happen to not be one of them but you were never interested to begin with. I, on the other hand, am very interested in it and that bed length is the LEAST of my worries.
    • For shit like that I'd hire a landscaper, who would haul such content in a dump truck or trailer. 
    • You going to hand-shovel a ton & a half of wet stone into the back of a Suburban, trying to tarp the carpeted bottom & plastic sides of the interior to keep it from getting torn apart? Really? Re-read my post- people don't put LOOSE material of any considerable volume in a vehicle like a Suburban. Is it physically possible? Sure - but does it happen? But a lawn mower or a potted shrub or a few bags of mulch- a roofed SUV could handle as well as a 4-ft bed trucklette. The overlap in cargo capability of a 4-ft bed and a mid-size SUV is a LOT more than between a Suburban and a full-size pickup.  
    • So while a tarp for your friends Infinite was okay, is not okay for a Suburban? That makes zero sense and that is the double talk I was talking about here. What you just said about the Suburban can be applied to the Infiniti and it actually makes a case for the Hyundai in the process. Again, being hung up on the bed size caused this. 
    • Everything else (and a buttload of excuses by you) aside, I do find it amusing how you think bags of mulch don’t gets holes in them and leak everywhere like they tend to do. Quite frankly you have tried to play it both ways by touting Full size trucks on one hand while trying to say that SUVs are better suited for light work (they are not in this case) than the Santa Cruz while ignoring the fact that the SUV argument applies to full size trucks. This all started because of your “problem” with bed size which, quite honestly, seems to be your problem and your problem alone here but not everyone sees it as a problem and the positives have been pointed out in spades.     And I live in NC and have ZERO use for a snow blower. Thanks for playing though Balth but please don’t try and act like gas spillage inside a vehicle isn’t a issue (it is). Whether someone goes electric or not is 100% irrelevant and you are deflecting with that statement. And again, all of those efforts your Infiniti boy makes to accommodate loads in his SUV could by 99.9% mitigated and simplified by just having a small bed with which to carry those things without the follow up cleaning and tarp shaking lol. Seriously, stop trying to equate your needs with others here (or dropping your “friend” as an example that actually supported the need for something like the Hyundai).
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