Very cool, ahead of the reveal this month, Kia has dropped a teaser of the EV9.

I changed the title to add "EV"... because Kia is definitely not the first to market a full-size SUV.

But that said, they've already missed the boat on the EV criteria as well.  The Rivian R1S is on sale now and can carry 7 passengers.

There's also a solid possibility there will be a production Traverse EV (or equivalent vehicle) debuting in the next 10 months.

The squared off SUV look is in (thanks to the Wrangler and G-wagen), you see Bronco, Bronco Sport, Defender, etc.  The new Santa Fe is supposedly all boxy too.  So I think this will do pretty well, assuming they can build them in the USA and get the tax credit, otherwise they might be a bit priced out if the competition gets it.

Rivian's products are too expensive and they are already seeing a slow down in demand and they have been on sale one year.  Same with Lucid.  There is limited market for $100k product, especially at a time with high inflation and slumping stock market which concerns the type of people that buy $100k vehicles.  Auto manufacturers need volume and scale to be profitable, Rivian and Lucid are just burning cash, I don't see how they make it.

14 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The squared off SUV look is in (thanks to the Wrangler and G-wagen), you see Bronco, Bronco Sport, Defender, etc.  The new Santa Fe is supposedly all boxy too.  So I think this will do pretty well, assuming they can build them in the USA and get the tax credit, otherwise they might be a bit priced out if the competition gets it.

Rivian's products are too expensive and they are already seeing a slow down in demand and they have been on sale one year.  Same with Lucid.  There is limited market for $100k product, especially at a time with high inflation and slumping stock market which concerns the type of people that buy $100k vehicles.  Auto manufacturers need volume and scale to be profitable, Rivian and Lucid are just burning cash, I don't see how they make it.

Rivian has their hands in Jeff Bezo's pockets. They'll make it or Amazon will just buy them outright.

@Drew Dowdell @smk4565 @oldshurst442 @ccap41 @surreal1272 @Robert Hall @riviera74 

Latest teaser of the full reveal coming on Wednesday March 15th which will cover both interior and exterior views. Kia has also stated that pricing and options will be released at pre-order day at the end of March.

Hyundai and Kia move SOOOOO much faster than the other legacy companies. They're popping out new vehicles every 6-9 months, it seems, and the other legacy companies take two years. 

Just now, ccap41 said:

Hyundai and Kia move SOOOOO much faster than the other legacy companies. They're popping out new vehicles every 6-9 months, it seems, and the other legacy companies take two years. 

Yes.

But...it also seems like Hyundai and KIA are suffering with recall, fire and over all reliability issues because of it.   Not to mention cheap security materials resulting in TIK TOK challenge thefts that peaked the interest of insurance companies that right now, refuse to insure Hyundais and KIAs... 

These are all 2022 articles...

https://driving.ca/auto-news/industry/hyundai-kia-to-book-another-2-billion-hit-on-engine-problems

https://www.businessinsider.com/hyundai-kia-recall-fire-risk-park-outside-500000-cars-2022-2

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2023/01/30/kia-hyundai-theft-issues-state-farm-progressive/11148537002/

Maybe they should take a slight breather and concetrate on better quality control as to not upset the image apple cart.   But then again,  self hatin' Americans and shytty American media refuse to put the same type of pressure on other shytty OEMs as they do to...uh...say GM...  

38 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Yes.

But...it also seems like Hyundai and KIA are suffering with recall, fire and over all reliability issues because of it.   Not to mention cheap security materials resulting in TIK TOK challenge thefts that peaked the interest of insurance companies that right now, refuse to insure Hyundais and KIAs... 

These are all 2022 articles...

https://driving.ca/auto-news/industry/hyundai-kia-to-book-another-2-billion-hit-on-engine-problems

https://www.businessinsider.com/hyundai-kia-recall-fire-risk-park-outside-500000-cars-2022-2

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2023/01/30/kia-hyundai-theft-issues-state-farm-progressive/11148537002/

 

Maybe they should take a slight breather and concetrate on better quality control as to not upset the image apple cart.   But then again,  self hatin' Americans and shytty American media refuse to put the same type of pressure on other shytty OEMs as they do to...uh...say GM...  

First off, keep in mind that this does affect all Kia/Hyundai 2015 to 2021 vehicles due to the fact that Kia/Hyundai due to both companies did not include electronic immobilizers in the autos. This changed as they moved to updated platforms for ICE starting in 2022 and their new EV platform that both has encrypted systems which has been in many other auto companies for years.

For most of the current 2015 to 2021 autos, they are getting a software update that will give a software electronic immobilizer to all existing autos.

3.8 million Hyundais and 4.5 million Kias, so a busy upgrade time for the dealerships.

Interesting is that in high theft areas, Kia/Hyundai had been offering wheel locks to prevent theft and to date since they started in November 2022, they have handed out 26,000-wheel locks.

Weird that they felt the cost of a wheel lock was cheaper than a software fix, update of the auto.

@ccap41

The Kia/Hyundai EV platform is a modern encrypted platform, which being a skateboard base platform, makes it much easier to bring out new models.

Same approach that GM is using, Ultium is an encrypted platform allowing them to roll out models faster. As GM ramps up as Battery Cell production comes online, we will see more models roll out.

I honestly think all OEM Auto Companies will have an easier time updating their models once they move to an EV platform. 

In regard to the Kia EV9 Teaser, I am very much liking what I see so far for this SUV.

FYI, my gut feeling is that Kia/Hyundai was hoping the theft issue would just go away as they focus on transitioning to a pure EV auto company with their new encrypted platform. 

Sadly, thieves do not ignore the ability to steal. This easy software fix should have been done years ago.

2 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Yes.

But...it also seems like Hyundai and KIA are suffering with recall, fire and over all reliability issues because of it.   Not to mention cheap security materials resulting in TIK TOK challenge thefts that peaked the interest of insurance companies that right now, refuse to insure Hyundais and KIAs... 

These are all 2022 articles...

https://driving.ca/auto-news/industry/hyundai-kia-to-book-another-2-billion-hit-on-engine-problems

https://www.businessinsider.com/hyundai-kia-recall-fire-risk-park-outside-500000-cars-2022-2

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2023/01/30/kia-hyundai-theft-issues-state-farm-progressive/11148537002/

 

Maybe they should take a slight breather and concetrate on better quality control as to not upset the image apple cart.   But then again,  self hatin' Americans and shytty American media refuse to put the same type of pressure on other shytty OEMs as they do to...uh...say GM...  

Are the theft issues related solely to their ICE vehicles? Do their EVs even have a key to plug in? 

Fire risk? Chevy bolt.

2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Are the theft issues related solely to their ICE vehicles? Do their EVs even have a key to plug in? 

Fire risk? Chevy bolt.

No need to defend Hyundai/Kia CCAP.

The Bolt's fire issues are not  directly from GM but of their battery supplier...  Semantics is semantics.  But my point stands when deflection is made and a "WHAT ABOUT"  argument arises...  

The Hyundai/Kia fires are from their 4 cylinder engines.  Like Ford's problems with their 1.6 4 cylinder ecoboost and their 3.5 V6.  

But with Ford, no injuries.  

https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-recalls-defects/why-so-many-hyundai-kia-vehicles-get-recalled-for-fire-risk-a1169940635/

More than 7 million vehicles have been recalled. If you own one, here’s what you should know.

Since 2010, more than 3,100 Hyundai and Kia vehicles have caught fire, injuring 103 people and killing one, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), the government agency investigating both automakers. These fires may be related to a type of four-cylinder engine used by both automakers. 

But those numbers reflect just a fraction of the millions of Hyundai and Kia vehicles that are at increased risk for catching fire for other reasons—including faulty wiring and brake system and battery problems—and aren’t part of this current NHTSA probe. In fact, according to tallies from Consumer Reports and the Center for Automotive Safety, over the past 12 years the automakers have sent recall notices for over 7 million cars and SUVs to fix problems that could cause vehicles to catch fire.

In some cases, the automakers have been unable to immediately address the underlying issues and have instructed owners to park their vehicles outside and away from structures to minimize property damage if the vehicles catch fire.

Like I said...we STILL talk about Ford Pintos catching on fire.  Yes, I know...something more sinister about Ford CEOs tallying up what was cheaper, recalls or death pay offs.  But why arent the same type of investigations going on for Hyundai/KIA right now.     The past 12 years for Hyundai and Kia.  The Pinto didnt last in the market place a fraction of that 12 year number.

Lets hold Hyundai/Kia to the SAME standards that we held Ford and GM accountable during the malaise era and let us BOYCOT Hyundai and Kia...

What about THEM apples???!!! 

11 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

The Bolt's fire issues are not  directly from GM but of their battery supplier...  Semantics is semantics.  But my point stands when deflection is made and a "WHAT ABOUT"  argument arises...  

If you read my initial comment, it was a direct comparison to the legacies, GM included. You can pick a Ford fire or Toyota wheel falling off, as well. 

My point still stands that H/K are bringing new vehicles to market a hell of a lot faster than GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda, etc.

If you're going to make a "WHAT ABOUT" argument, it's yours. "H/K are way faster at getting new products to market."  "WHAT ABOUT their problems though!?!?"

41 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

If you read my initial comment, it was a direct comparison to the legacies, GM included. You can pick a Ford fire or Toyota wheel falling off, as well. 

My point still stands that H/K are bringing new vehicles to market a hell of a lot faster than GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda, etc.

If you're going to make a "WHAT ABOUT" argument, it's yours. "H/K are way faster at getting new products to market."  "WHAT ABOUT their problems though!?!?"

They might BE bringing out a ton of cars, but their cars have a ton of problems...

Maybe...they should SLACK off the numbers and concentrate on quality control.  Because, its kinda useless to bring out new model after new model when their models arent exactly driven by their new owners and are being recalled...

Because you were quite impressed by their new model roll out.  I wasnt BECAUSE well...shytty cars. 

Same problem Ford has had and if you have been paying attention, I have been jabbing at Ford for THAT exact reason...   Ford has been just as shytty as Hyundai/Kia has for new vehicle roll out.  

I dont defend anyone. But I DO lend my opnion out for shyttyness.  Hyundai no different.

BUT...

Ill repeat, its funny how when the BiG 3  done shyte 40-50 years ago...self-hatin' Americans let them know but its funny how Toyota been doin' shyte and they get a free pass.  Hyundai/KIA is ALL OVER the news RIGHT NOW and not a phoquing peep...

But praise them for rolling out new models at a record pace...I guess...     Forget about almost record setting pace in recalls and shytyness...   My bad. 

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

Are the theft issues related solely to their ICE vehicles? Do their EVs even have a key to plug in? 

Fire risk? Chevy bolt.

Yes, the theft issue is totally related to their ICE lineup.

K/H has no keys for EVs, an encrypted fob and encrypted phone app and that is it. 

I would have to say that it will be much harder for people to steal EVs, then ICE. 

I agree with @oldshurst442 Seems the Legacy companies catch far more BS than the Broken Frame issues and Wheels falling off of Toyota or the decades long Fire issue of K/H cars with their 4 banger motor.

Dead on about Pinto hurting ford more than a motor fire hurting K/H. 

Interesting history on the Pinto.

How Dangerous was the Ford Pinto? The Most Dangerous Car? (reifflawfirm.com)

27 official deaths with an average payout of $6 million per death for a total payout of $162,000,000 million. 

Interesting, did not know they built Pinto's from 1970 to 1980 last model year.

Ford Pinto - Wikipedia

Ford (USA) Pinto production numbers data (automobile-catalog.com)

53 minutes ago, David said:

K/H has no keys for EVs, an encrypted fob and encrypted phone app and that is it. 

That's what I was thinking but I didn't actually have knowledge of it or not. Thank you!

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

They might BE bringing out a ton of cars, but their cars have a ton of problems...

Maybe...they should SLACK off the numbers and concentrate on quality control.  Because, its kinda useless to bring out new model after new model when their models arent exactly driven by their new owners and are being recalled...

Ford is slow to market AND everything has been filled with troubles the last 5 years. I don't think they've had a single new vehicles launch without some pretty major issue within that time period. 

I'd agree that taking your time and not having major issues would be great... if that was the case. 

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

Ill repeat, its funny how when the BiG 3  done shyte 40-50 years ago...self-hatin' Americans let them know but its funny how Toyota been doin' shyte and they get a free pass.  Hyundai/KIA is ALL OVER the news RIGHT NOW and not a phoquing peep...

What do you mean "not a phoquiing peep"? You literally just said it's all over the news right now. Their theft issues have been on every news outlet the past 6 months or so. 

I guess I should just limit my praise to NO MANUFACTURER because they all have their faults and if you praise one of them, you're blind to something. 

Just now, ccap41 said:

What do you mean "not a phoquiing peep"? You literally just said it's all over the news right now. Their theft issues have been on every news outlet the past 6 months or so. 

News.  Reporting it but not condemning it.  

News reports of the 70s, 80s, 90s and well into the 2010s, NEWS reports would ROAST the Big 3.   ROAST them.     

That NBC  "news show"  even staged FAKE fire explosions to undermine GM...

4 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I'd agree that taking your time and not having major issues would be great... if that was the case. 

Thank-You

This is all I was saying.  But of course...a little rant to go along with that stance...   But the rant is genuine.   Its an opinion that I truly believe in. 

@oldshurst442 @ccap41

Course very interesting to see how conservative news outlets are raging about how EVs are fire hazards, and we need to stop it as ICE is safer BS.

Montana has put forth a bill in their state senate to stop EV sales as a hazard to Americans. Unfortunately for the crazy GOP Trumpers, they also acknowledge that it will not go anywhere due to the large increase in EV sales especially in the state capital where over 300 Tesla's are owned and driven daily. 

Wyoming lawmakers seek electric vehicle ban; Montana business sees EV increase (ktvq.com)

Wyoming ban on electric cars by 2035 pushed by lawmakers (usatoday.com)

Course everyone has their own agenda. I read a story about GM's voice system called CHATGPT that will be going into all new ICE/EV auto's starting 2024 and how GM is trying to get rid of LG due to the battery fires of the BOLT. 

I had to laugh at this as LG and GM are tied up in their 3 pouch making battery plants for a25 or 30 year long term contract to control prices and production efficiencies. I see no way LG is going anywhere. If only these idiots would do their research before mouthing off.

GM explores using ChatGPT in vehicles | Reuters

GM explores using ChatGPT in vehicles (cnbc.com)

In 2022, Tesla sales were up 44%, Mercedes up 6%, GM up 3%.

All other car companies were negative, some like Nissan and Honda down over 30%.  

Tesla since lowered prices and got a $7500 tax credit on their volume sellers.  So we know they are going up again, and have Cybertruck at the end of the year to carry them in 2024.

Most of these other companies are clueless and way behind on the EV front when it comes to manufacturing at scale and cost.   I think the EV switch comes like a tidal wave in the next few years and the ones that don't have both good product and ability to produce at scale are going to be screwed.  

Hyundai/Kia can't ramp up scale fast enough and they don't have the tax credit since they aren't built in the US, at least not yet.  But by the time they get a US plant going, Tesla will have the next-gen car at $25,000 or whatever it costs and it is game over for them.

17 minutes ago, David said:

@oldshurst442 @ccap41

Course very interesting to see how conservative news outlets are raging about how EVs are fire hazards, and we need to stop it as ICE is safer BS.

Montana has put forth a bill in their state senate to stop EV sales as a hazard to Americans. Unfortunately for the crazy GOP Trumpers, they also acknowledge that it will not go anywhere due to the large increase in EV sales especially in the state capital where over 300 Tesla's are owned and driven daily. 

Wyoming lawmakers seek electric vehicle ban; Montana business sees EV increase (ktvq.com)

Wyoming ban on electric cars by 2035 pushed by lawmakers (usatoday.com)

Course everyone has their own agenda. I read a story about GM's voice system called CHATGPT that will be going into all new ICE/EV auto's starting 2024 and how GM is trying to get rid of LG due to the battery fires of the BOLT. 

I had to laugh at this as LG and GM are tied up in their 3 pouch making battery plants for a25 or 30 year long term contract to control prices and production efficiencies. I see no way LG is going anywhere. If only these idiots would do their research before mouthing off.

GM explores using ChatGPT in vehicles | Reuters

GM explores using ChatGPT in vehicles (cnbc.com)

Correct that ICE cars are far more likely to catch fire than a battery car.  It is like 100 or 1000 times more likely, I forget which, but it isn't even close.  And it is people with political agendas, or oil companies trying to hold on to their business.

Wyoming can ban EV's in 2035 if they want, but then there will be no new car sales in Wyoming.   China is the largest car market, 22% of their sales were EV last year, by 2035 that might be 100%.  California alone is a top 10 car market in the world and they were at 19% EV last year.   The big markets are moving EV, that is what manufacturers will make.

I am not a Tesla fan boy, I don't want to buy one, but if they really do deliver on the $25,000 car, or even $30k with some options (and they say it will have "full self drive") put on the tax credit and is a $22,500 car with options.  All the ICE small cars and crossovers are dead at that point.  And the German luxury brands and Cadillac won't even have an ICE car in 10 years to sell.  So what is left for ICE?

15 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I am not a Tesla fan boy, I don't want to buy one, but if they really do deliver on the $25,000 car, or even $30k with some options (and they say it will have "full self drive") put on the tax credit and is a $22,500 car with options.  All the ICE small cars and crossovers are dead at that point.  And the German luxury brands and Cadillac won't even have an ICE car in 10 years to sell.  So what is left for ICE?

I don't think Tesla has delivered on any major new vehicle claim yet so I don't see them getting a 25k car to market either.  By the time they get something worth 25k today, the inflation costs will bring that to 30k anyway. Maybe their target is 25k with a federal tax credit so a 32,5k car. That would make more sense to me. 

So how does it compare dimensionally to the Telluride and Palisade?

3 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

So how does it compare dimensionally to the Telluride and Palisade?

EV9 - 194 inches long, 122 inch wheelbase, 81 inches wide and 70 inches tall

Telluride - 196.9 inches long, 114 inch wheelbase, 78.3 inches wide, and 68.9 inches tall

Palisade - 196.7 inches long, 114 inch wheelbase, 77.8 inches wide, and 68.9 inches tall

Telluride and Palisade both have the same V6 engine at 291 hp, 262 lb-ft of torque

While a few inches shorter overall in length, interior should be very roomy as an EV.

3 hours ago, ccap41 said:

I don't think Tesla has delivered on any major new vehicle claim yet so I don't see them getting a 25k car to market either.  By the time they get something worth 25k today, the inflation costs will bring that to 30k anyway. Maybe their target is 25k with a federal tax credit so a 32,5k car. That would make more sense to me. 

It is possible though with the new factory in Mexico, lower labor rate and new way of assembling the car.  Even if they don’t deliver on 50% cost reduction, and  it is 33% reduction, a Model 3 is about $32k to build so the next Gen car would still be about $22k to build.  They could still sell under $30k before tax credits.

7 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

It is possible though with the new factory in Mexico, lower labor rate and new way of assembling the car.  Even if they don’t deliver on 50% cost reduction, and  it is 33% reduction, a Model 3 is about $32k to build so the next Gen car would still be about $22k to build.  They could still sell under $30k before tax credits.

Will be interesting, what they say at investor meetings is so different than what they really deliver on.

Tesla has promised a $20K priced auto for a decade plus now and still not delivered.

Since they are 5 years behind on delivering a truck, this cheap car will be even lower on their list to deliver I tend to believe.

Mexico plant is at least 3 years out. When Tesla announced Germany, that ended up being way behind. In fact except for Musk's Communist friends, aka China, Tesla has never delivered anything on time let alone as they promised. 

Where is the Total Self Driving that Tesla has charged folks for over the last Decade plus? Still not here, Level 3 at best. I doubt Tesla will have it by 2025, might by 2030.

I actually expect GM and Mercedes to get there before Tesla will.