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  • William Maley
    William Maley

    Most Electric Cars Sold in the U.S. Are Leased

      There's a good reason why EV buyers are leasing

    You find yourself in the showroom, ready to drive away in a new Chevrolet Bolt, Nissan Leaf, or Tesla Model S. But there is one big question that needs to be decided, do you buy or lease it? According to a report from Bloomberg, most buyers of EVs tend to lease.

    In the U.S., almost 80 percent of electric vehicles on the road are leased according to their report. It also says that 55 percent of plug-in hybrids are leased. More than 80 percent of BMW i3s are leased as an example. The key reason comes down to the belief that electric vehicles will continue to improve and buyers can simply trade them - similar to purchasing a new smartphone.

    "When there’s new technology coming out, and it’s coming out so rapidly, and you’re improving on it so constantly, typically people only want to lease it,” said Steve Center, a vice president of American Honda Motor Co., back in April.

    This bet seems to be paying off as the range of electric vehicles has been increasing, while prices of batteries have been going downward.

    “If you look at what can happen across the lifetime of a lease, you’re really talking about doubling the range of these vehicles,” said Edmunds analyst Jeremy Acevedo.

    The imbalance between leasing/buying an electric vehicle has also made used EVs to become a steal. According to auto analytics firm Black Book, compact electric vehicles sold in 2014 only hold 23 percent of their original sale price. A comparable internal combustion vehicle holds about 41 percent. Doing a quick search on Cars.com, we were able to find low mileage 2015 Nissan Leafs ranging $14,000 to $16,000.

    The big question is will this trend continue down the road, considering the likes the Model 3 and models coming from German automakers.

    Source: Bloomberg

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    A gently used, certified pre-owned Bolt would be a steal for someone shopping the segment. 

    That said, I think part of it also has to do with the way the tax credit is structured.  If you lease, you get the full credit vis-a-vie the leasing company.  If you buy, then you have to deal with submitting for the tax credit and possibly not being eligible for the full amount.   I'm certain that is an aspect for leasing as well. 

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    51 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    A gently used, certified pre-owned Bolt would be a steal for someone shopping the segment. 

    That said, I think part of it also has to do with the way the tax credit is structured.  If you lease, you get the full credit vis-a-vie the leasing company.  If you buy, then you have to deal with submitting for the tax credit and possibly not being eligible for the full amount.   I'm certain that is an aspect for leasing as well. 

    I never knew that on leasing. 

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    From a different perspective, electric vehicles, per the article, can be seen as throwaways.  First off they're leased, then dumped into a market where they have no value.  From a financial point of view, they are a much worse investment than conventional vehicles, which can effortlessly be kept in service by subsequent owners, this adds intrinsic value that is impossible to deny.

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    1 minute ago, ocnblu said:

    From a different perspective, electric vehicles, per the article, can be seen as throwaways.  First off they're leased, then dumped into a market where they have no value.  From a financial point of view, they are a much worse investment than conventional vehicles, which can effortlessly be kept in service by subsequent owners, this adds intrinsic value that is impossible to deny.

    Effortlessly? I beg to differ. It's going to take me hours of effort to replace the starter in my CRV.

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    1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

    From a different perspective, electric vehicles, per the article, can be seen as throwaways.  First off they're leased, then dumped into a market where they have no value.  From a financial point of view, they are a much worse investment than conventional vehicles, which can effortlessly be kept in service by subsequent owners, this adds intrinsic value that is impossible to deny.

    Wrong, EV leasing offers all auto companies a way to off set profits which in the end means having to pay the tax man. Much value to the bottom line.

    In regards to Effortlessly be kept in service, stop dreaming silly, Petro auto's often cause hours of wrench time to repair and keep running.

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    I just realized something yuge and even more precarious for the industry we all love.  The electric car mentality is the very same as the cell phone mentality.  Now let me ask you, good citizens, is this really what you want?  To Apple-ize cars?  Are we going to camp out and wait for the release of v.2, v.3 of a CAR?  The implications blow my tiny little mind.

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    2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    I just realized something yuge and even more precarious for the industry we all love.  The electric car mentality is the very same as the cell phone mentality.  Now let me ask you, good citizens, is this really what you want?  To Apple-ize cars?  Are we going to camp out and wait for the release of v.2, v.3 of a CAR?  The implications blow my tiny little mind.

    I think for people who don't care, car sharing, car subscriptions, and various schemes like that will increase. They'll take the place of the CamCordTima crowd.  For the people who do care, there will still be the niche products out there. 

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    I've had some interesting observations over the last couple years when i was looking at used Volts.

    About 18-24 months ago when there was a bunch of lease return Volts, 3 years old etc.... they were getting really cheap in some cases because so many were coming off their lease returns.  The used 2013 with 36,000 miles on the market in mid 2016 was sometimes had for 13,000-14,000.  Here at week one of 2018, if i look at used 2013 Volts and some of them do still have 36,000 miles they are actually going for more money (15 grand plus) for the same car, now 18 months older.

    Leasing electric cars will perpetuate drops in used retail prices but if you time it well and buy one of those 3 year pre owned, I think you will get it for a fair price and after you buy it I don't think you will lose a lot more on depreciation.  I think that will be the sweet spot for ownership on an electric car.

    For leasing new, the problem is california customers will get more incentives offered to them than other parts of the country.  On Volt fourms and places like leasehckr you see many examples where between the extra tax credits and special localized incentives, things like Volts and Bolts can sometimes be had for little down and absurd monthlies.  Like 250 a month zero down and then no gas bill.  Spark EV's towards the end were going close to zero down and 100 a month for places in CA.  Foolish not take advantage of leasing when its like that.

    Edited by regfootball
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    I'll add, Spark EV's used....good buy, as low as 8-9 grand and 30-40k miles in some instances,  just they are only in certain parts of the country to be found.  not bad for 327 lb ft of torque....

    Edited by regfootball
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    16 hours ago, Zane Wylder said:

    So, riddle me this, what happens when the batteries die and there's no warranty, how much would that all cost to fix?

    With the hybrid Prius and Ford Escapes that hasn't been an issue, the batteries typically outlast the car. Prius and Escape taxis go multiple hundreds of thousands of miles on their original batteries.

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    8 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    With the hybrid Prius and Ford Escapes that hasn't been an issue, the batteries typically outlast the car. Prius and Escape taxis go multiple hundreds of thousands of miles on their original batteries.

    True, and from now on, I'll tone down my comments, but I digress

     

    So when the time comes then, how much is the repair?

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    I wouldn't want one out of warranty...I'd get the extended warranty w/ any modern vehicle and trade before it expires.  With an EV, a lease really makes the most sense...

    Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
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    Just now, Zane Wylder said:

    True, and from now on, I'll tone down my comments, but I digress

     

    So when the time comes then, how much is the repair?

    It varies depending on the kilowatt hour of the battery and the type of the battery. I've seen as low as $1,500 for a Prius and $14,000 for a Tesla. The Tesla can be $120,000 car though.

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    Ford, Toyota, GM, and Tesla all had battery buyback programs at one point where you get a trade in value for your old battery. I haven't heard anything in a while so I don't know if they're still active or not.

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    21 hours ago, Zane Wylder said:

    True, and from now on, I'll tone down my comments, but I digress

     

    So when the time comes then, how much is the repair?

    We have reduced the costs of EV battery packs 80% in the last 6 years. As we get more efficient with production as well as recycling and move to solid state batteries, as Hybrid / EV auto's increase in production and sales, prices always come down.

    screen-shot-2015-03-23-at-142210_600x365

    This chart is just one showing where our costs are and how we have already beat 2020 cost projections.

    https://cleantechnica.com/2015/03/26/ev-battery-costs-already-probably-cheaper-than-2020-projections/

    Plenty more info in the story above, but you can bing or google your own "yearly auto battery price reductions for EVs" and see that there is plenty of evidence that shows the cost of a replacement battery is always reducing. By the time you have 250,000 miles or more on the auto, it will be much cheaper for a much superior battery pack or you might not even own the auto any more.

    The low maintenance cost of Hybrid and EV auto's beats ICE auto's and as we learned about lead paint, asbestos, diesel and so many other polluting toxic things, we are learning how to create much better products.

    This all helps with other pollution issue especially in the inner big cities in regards to noise pollution, exhaust pollution, etc. Cleaner, quiet, better.

    21 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Ford, Toyota, GM, and Tesla all had battery buyback programs at one point where you get a trade in value for your old battery. I haven't heard anything in a while so I don't know if they're still active or not.

    Tesla, GM and Toyota along with BMW have all canceled their buy back programs as they have focused on using the warranty replaced batteries in power storage packs available to the public and businesses for solar storage systems. Ford I could not find anything on now.

    Yet with the much higher dependable packs, I think the cost of recycling or dealing with disposal is what has led to the ending of that program it seems.

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    There is no place to plug in a golf cart in the city, which is ironic because electrics are only good as short hop toys, not long distance cruisers.  This is a big country. 

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    • By William Maley
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      Aero-optimized wheels further echo the Parametric Pixel design theme and are offered in a super-sized 20-inch diameter, the largest rims ever fitted to a Hyundai EV. These complete IONIQ 5’s perfected proportions, optimized for Hyundai’s E-GMP.
      “A new mobility experience for the next generation—this was the mission from the first day we began this project, to look ahead towards the horizon, but stay fundamentally Hyundai,” said SangYup Lee, Senior Vice President and Head of Hyundai Global Design Center. “IONIQ 5 is the new definition of timeless, providing a common thread linking our past to the present and future.”
      The ‘Living Space’ theme runs throughout the interior, most notably embodied by the Universal Island, a moveable center console that can slide back as much as 140 mm. Universal Island, along with the flat floor where the batteries are stored, allows more freedom of movement inside the vehicle.
      IONIQ 5 is also equipped with electronically adjustable front seats. The seats recline to the optimum angle, offering a weightless feeling for the occupant. Hyundai reduced the thickness of the front seats by 30 percent, providing more space for those seated in the second row.
      Many of its interior touchpoints — seats, headliner, door trim, floor and armrest — use eco-friendly, sustainably sourced materials, such as recycled PET bottles, plant-based (bio PET) yarns and natural wool yarns, eco-processed leather with plant-based extracts, and bio paint with plant extracts.
      Customers can choose from nine exterior colors[1], including five nature-inspired hues exclusive to IONIQ 5. The interior has three color options[2].
      A range of power electric systems to suit every customer
      IONIQ 5 is available with a range of power electric (PE) configurations to fit the mobility needs of every customer, with no compromises on performance. Customers can select from two battery pack options, either 58 kWh or 72.6 kWh[3], and two electric motor layouts, either with a rear motor only or with both front and rear motors. All PE variations provide outstanding range and deliver a top speed of 185 km/h.
      At the top of the electric motor lineup is an all-wheel drive (AWD) option paired with the 72.6-kWh battery, producing a combined power output of 225-kWh and 605 Nm of torque. This PE configuration can go from 0 km/h to 100 km/h in 5.2 seconds.
      When equipped with two-wheel drive (2WD) and 72.6-kWh battery, IONIQ 5’s maximum driving range on a single charge will be around 470~480 km[4], according to the Worldwide Harmonized Light Vehicle Test Procedure (WLTP) standard.
      Ultra-fast battery charging along with innovative Vehicle-to-Load (V2L) function
      IONIQ 5’s E-GMP can support both 400-V and 800-V charging infrastructures. The platform offers 800-V charging capability as standard, along with 400-V charging, without the need for additional components or adapters. The multi-charging system is a world’s first patented technology that operates the motor and inverter to boost 400 V to 800 V for stable charging compatibility.
      With a 350-kW charger, IONIQ 5 can charge from 10 percent to 80 percent in just 18 minutes. IONIQ 5 users only need to charge the vehicle for five minutes to get 100 km of range, according to WLTP.
      IONIQ 5 also provides an innovative V2L function, which allows customers to freely use or charge any electric devices, such as electric bicycles, scooters or camping equipment, serving as a charger on wheels.
      The V2L function can supply up to 3.6 kW of power. The V2L port is located under the second-row seats, and it can be activated when a vehicle is on. Another V2L port is located at the charging port on the vehicle exterior. Using a converter, customers can charge high-power electric equipment. The outside port provides power even when the vehicle is turned off.
      Innovative connectivity and driver assistance for safety and convenience[5]
      IONIQ 5 seamlessly integrates advanced technologies for an enhanced digital user experience. The wide, configurable, dual cockpit features a 12-inch, full-touch infotainment screen and hoodless 12- inch digital gauge cluster that can be customized to meet customers’ needs.
      For the first time in Hyundai, IONIQ 5 features an Augmented Reality Head-Up Display (AR HUD), essentially turning the windshield into a display screen.
      IONIQ 5 is also equipped with the next level of Hyundai SmartSense, advanced driver assistance system, ensuring the highest levels of safety and convenience on the road. IONIQ 5 is the first Hyundai model to offer Highway Driving Assist 2 (HDA 2). Other driving assistance systems include Forward Collision-Avoidance Assist (FCA), Blind-Spot Collision-Avoidance Assist (BCA), Intelligent Speed Limit Assist (ISLA), Driver Attention Warning (DAW), High Beam Assist (HBA), and more.
      IONIQ 5 will be available in selected regions starting in the first half of 2021.
      Dimensions
      Wheelbase
      3,000 mm
      Length
      4,635 mm
      Width
      1,890 mm
      Height
      1,605 mm
      Cargo
      Boot/trunk space
      531 L / 1591 L (when second-row seats are fully folded)
      Front trunk
      North American (NA) model: 24 L (both AWD and 2WD)
      Non-NA model: 57 L (2WD) or 24 L (AWD)
      Performance
      Platform
      Electric-Global Modular Platform
      Maximum Driving Range
      (according to WLTP)
      470~480 km
      (When pairing 2WD with 72.6-kWh battery option)
       
      Long Range
      72.6-kWh Battery
      (77.4-kWh for NA)
      AWD
      Power
      225-kW (Front and Rear combined)
      Torque
      605-Nm (Front and Rear combined)
      0-100 km/h
      5.2 seconds
      2WD 
      Power
      160-kW Rear
      Torque
      350-Nm Rear
      0-100 km/h
      7.4 seconds
       
      Standard Range
      58-kWh Battery
      AWD
      Power
      173 kW (Front and Rear combined)
      Torque
      605 Nm (Front and Rear combined)
      0-100 km/h
      6.1 seconds
      2WD
      Power
      125 kW
      Torque
      350 Nm
      0-100 km/h
      8.5 seconds
      Features (Please see additional details section below table for more information)
      Supported Charging Infrastructure
      400 V and 800 V (No need for additional adapters)
      Ultra-fast Charging
      10 % to 80 % in 18 minutes of charge
      100 km of range (WLTP) in 5 minutes of charge
      Vehicle-to-Load
      Max. Output
      3.6 kW
      Port Locations
      Inside: Under second-row seats
      Outside: vehicle charging port
      Infotainment
      Screen
      12-inch, full-touch infotainment screen
      Hoodless 12-inch digital gauge cluster
      Bluelink® connected car services
      Remote Profile Management
      Remote Start Enhancements
      Vehicle Status Notifications
      POI Send to Car Now with Waypoints
      Maintenance Alert Enhancement
      Dynamic Voice Recognition
      Safety and Convenience Features
      Forward Collision-Avoidance Assist (FCA)
      Blind-Spot Collision-Avoidance Assist (BCA)
      Safe Exit Assist (SEA)
      Intelligent Speed Limit Assist (ISLA)
      Driver Attention Warning (DAW)
      High Beam Assist (HBA)
      Surround View Monitor (SVM)
      Rear Cross-Traffic Collision-Avoidance Assist (RCCA)
      Parking Collision-Avoidance Assist (PCA)
      Highway Driving Assist 2 (HDA 2)
      Remote Smart Parking Assist (RSPA)
      Available Colors
      Exterior: Gravity Gold Matte, Shooting-Star Gray Matte, Digital Teal-Green Pearl, Lucid Blue Pearl, Atlas White, Cyber Gray Metallic, Phantom Black Pearl, Galactic Gray Metallic (not available in NA region), Mystic Olive-Green Pearl (not available in NA region)
      Interior: Obsidian Black and Dark Pebble Gray/Dove Gray, Dark Teal/Dove Gray, and Terra Brown/Mud Gray (only available in Korea)
    • By David
      Many have heard of AI and they think Terminator. Yet AI in the computer industry has allowed us to build computers and accessories faster due to the ability of AI to sift through data faster than humans can. This brings us to how AI is helping the Auto industry transition to EV's and how battery tech will change much faster than in the last two decades.

      IBM has announced their recent battery project is developing prototypes of new faster charging batteries that are free of Nickel and Cobalt thanks to AI. It has allowed them to quickly evaluate a set of 20,000 potential compounds for use in the Battery electrolytes. This would normally take 5 years via traditional human research and yet was accomplished in nine days using AI.
      GM Ultium batteries and Panasonic batteries have reduced testing from three years to about six months. This is going from a large number of time consuming charging and discharging cycles to using AI to cover what would be done manually in three years to six months.

      Gbatteries has used AI to build faster and more reliable DC fast chargers. InoBat from Slovakian has stated that AI is helping them to boost battery density by 20% with the batteries being sold in 2023.
      VW has stated AI is helping them lay out a new roadmap of lite weight materials for auto's including their own batteries that are in development.
      Dyson has claimed that AI is how they have brought Solid State batteries to market now.
      AI is going to help usher in the next generation of not only Auto's but phones, computers, etc.  AI will touch just about every aspect of life for people.
      https://www.wsj.com/articles/electric-car-batteries-get-a-boost-from-artificial-intelligence-11604422792
      https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1130221_report-ai-will-dramatically-speed-up-battery-development-and-thus-ev-adoption
      https://na.panasonic.com/us/press-releases
    • By David
      According to Electrek web site, VW will open up their reservation system in September. Online reservations for the ID.4 EV will only require a $100 deposit. VW production of the ID.4 for European and Chinese markets has started and is on size to compete with the Tesla Y small CUV. The auto is expected to have about 250 miles of range in base form and start at $40,000. 300 miles plus for the top trim version. Production for the North American Market will start in early 2022 at Chattanooga Factory upon the construction completion of the assembly line and battery production plant. The auto has a .28 drag coefficient.
      ID.4 Concept

      https://electrek.co/2020/08/27/vw-id4-electric-suv-orders-september-deposit/
      Thanks to a Chinese web site not being secure, actual production models have been caught before the official introduction. A muscular clean CUV EV is seen here and close to the Concept.




      https://electrek.co/2020/06/17/leaked-photos-of-vw-id-4-electric-crossover-reveal-clean-design/
    • By David
      Lots of interesting stuff happening as GM by divisions starts to release more info on their EV programs.
      First is a interesting video on their Ultium batteries. This clearly shows how versatile they can build the battery packs.
      https://plants.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/bcportal.html/currentVideoId/6157651202001/currentChannelId/Most Recent.gsaOff.html
      Multiple-cell-configurations-within-Ultium-modules.mp4

      They have released a video of a side profile of the new Chevrolet Bolt morphing into the Bolt EUV. I was able to download the video and as such, way more visual detail than on the posted web sites below are showing.
      https://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/home.html
      chevrolet-bolt-euv-teaser-1598391287.mp4
      https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a33799068/chevy-2022-bolt-bolt-euv-tease/
      https://www.autoblog.com/2020/08/26/2022-chevy-bolt-euv-teaser-video/
      https://www.carscoops.com/2020/08/chevrolet-teases-2022-bolt-euv-and-ev-confirms-super-cruise-for-electric-suv/
      https://insideevs.com/news/440899/chevrolet-bolt-euv-production-summer-2021/
       
      Have to say the upcoming update to the Chevrolet Bolt and the EUV is nice looking and should sell even better than the old Bolt. Truly a much more CUV look.
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