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  • William Maley
    William Maley

    Most Electric Cars Sold in the U.S. Are Leased

      There's a good reason why EV buyers are leasing

    You find yourself in the showroom, ready to drive away in a new Chevrolet Bolt, Nissan Leaf, or Tesla Model S. But there is one big question that needs to be decided, do you buy or lease it? According to a report from Bloomberg, most buyers of EVs tend to lease.

    In the U.S., almost 80 percent of electric vehicles on the road are leased according to their report. It also says that 55 percent of plug-in hybrids are leased. More than 80 percent of BMW i3s are leased as an example. The key reason comes down to the belief that electric vehicles will continue to improve and buyers can simply trade them - similar to purchasing a new smartphone.

    "When there’s new technology coming out, and it’s coming out so rapidly, and you’re improving on it so constantly, typically people only want to lease it,” said Steve Center, a vice president of American Honda Motor Co., back in April.

    This bet seems to be paying off as the range of electric vehicles has been increasing, while prices of batteries have been going downward.

    “If you look at what can happen across the lifetime of a lease, you’re really talking about doubling the range of these vehicles,” said Edmunds analyst Jeremy Acevedo.

    The imbalance between leasing/buying an electric vehicle has also made used EVs to become a steal. According to auto analytics firm Black Book, compact electric vehicles sold in 2014 only hold 23 percent of their original sale price. A comparable internal combustion vehicle holds about 41 percent. Doing a quick search on Cars.com, we were able to find low mileage 2015 Nissan Leafs ranging $14,000 to $16,000.

    The big question is will this trend continue down the road, considering the likes the Model 3 and models coming from German automakers.

    Source: Bloomberg

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    Awesome write up and I agree, eight now as much as I like the EV auto's, lease is the way to go as we are changing tech way to fast to buy.

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    A gently used, certified pre-owned Bolt would be a steal for someone shopping the segment. 

    That said, I think part of it also has to do with the way the tax credit is structured.  If you lease, you get the full credit vis-a-vie the leasing company.  If you buy, then you have to deal with submitting for the tax credit and possibly not being eligible for the full amount.   I'm certain that is an aspect for leasing as well. 

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    51 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    A gently used, certified pre-owned Bolt would be a steal for someone shopping the segment. 

    That said, I think part of it also has to do with the way the tax credit is structured.  If you lease, you get the full credit vis-a-vie the leasing company.  If you buy, then you have to deal with submitting for the tax credit and possibly not being eligible for the full amount.   I'm certain that is an aspect for leasing as well. 

    I never knew that on leasing. 

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    From a different perspective, electric vehicles, per the article, can be seen as throwaways.  First off they're leased, then dumped into a market where they have no value.  From a financial point of view, they are a much worse investment than conventional vehicles, which can effortlessly be kept in service by subsequent owners, this adds intrinsic value that is impossible to deny.

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    1 minute ago, ocnblu said:

    From a different perspective, electric vehicles, per the article, can be seen as throwaways.  First off they're leased, then dumped into a market where they have no value.  From a financial point of view, they are a much worse investment than conventional vehicles, which can effortlessly be kept in service by subsequent owners, this adds intrinsic value that is impossible to deny.

    Effortlessly? I beg to differ. It's going to take me hours of effort to replace the starter in my CRV.

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    1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

    From a different perspective, electric vehicles, per the article, can be seen as throwaways.  First off they're leased, then dumped into a market where they have no value.  From a financial point of view, they are a much worse investment than conventional vehicles, which can effortlessly be kept in service by subsequent owners, this adds intrinsic value that is impossible to deny.

    Wrong, EV leasing offers all auto companies a way to off set profits which in the end means having to pay the tax man. Much value to the bottom line.

    In regards to Effortlessly be kept in service, stop dreaming silly, Petro auto's often cause hours of wrench time to repair and keep running.

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    I just realized something yuge and even more precarious for the industry we all love.  The electric car mentality is the very same as the cell phone mentality.  Now let me ask you, good citizens, is this really what you want?  To Apple-ize cars?  Are we going to camp out and wait for the release of v.2, v.3 of a CAR?  The implications blow my tiny little mind.

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    2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    I just realized something yuge and even more precarious for the industry we all love.  The electric car mentality is the very same as the cell phone mentality.  Now let me ask you, good citizens, is this really what you want?  To Apple-ize cars?  Are we going to camp out and wait for the release of v.2, v.3 of a CAR?  The implications blow my tiny little mind.

    I think for people who don't care, car sharing, car subscriptions, and various schemes like that will increase. They'll take the place of the CamCordTima crowd.  For the people who do care, there will still be the niche products out there. 

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    I've had some interesting observations over the last couple years when i was looking at used Volts.

    About 18-24 months ago when there was a bunch of lease return Volts, 3 years old etc.... they were getting really cheap in some cases because so many were coming off their lease returns.  The used 2013 with 36,000 miles on the market in mid 2016 was sometimes had for 13,000-14,000.  Here at week one of 2018, if i look at used 2013 Volts and some of them do still have 36,000 miles they are actually going for more money (15 grand plus) for the same car, now 18 months older.

    Leasing electric cars will perpetuate drops in used retail prices but if you time it well and buy one of those 3 year pre owned, I think you will get it for a fair price and after you buy it I don't think you will lose a lot more on depreciation.  I think that will be the sweet spot for ownership on an electric car.

    For leasing new, the problem is california customers will get more incentives offered to them than other parts of the country.  On Volt fourms and places like leasehckr you see many examples where between the extra tax credits and special localized incentives, things like Volts and Bolts can sometimes be had for little down and absurd monthlies.  Like 250 a month zero down and then no gas bill.  Spark EV's towards the end were going close to zero down and 100 a month for places in CA.  Foolish not take advantage of leasing when its like that.

    Edited by regfootball
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    I'll add, Spark EV's used....good buy, as low as 8-9 grand and 30-40k miles in some instances,  just they are only in certain parts of the country to be found.  not bad for 327 lb ft of torque....

    Edited by regfootball

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    So, riddle me this, what happens when the batteries die and there's no warranty, how much would that all cost to fix?

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    16 hours ago, Zane Wylder said:

    So, riddle me this, what happens when the batteries die and there's no warranty, how much would that all cost to fix?

    With the hybrid Prius and Ford Escapes that hasn't been an issue, the batteries typically outlast the car. Prius and Escape taxis go multiple hundreds of thousands of miles on their original batteries.

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    8 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    With the hybrid Prius and Ford Escapes that hasn't been an issue, the batteries typically outlast the car. Prius and Escape taxis go multiple hundreds of thousands of miles on their original batteries.

    True, and from now on, I'll tone down my comments, but I digress

     

    So when the time comes then, how much is the repair?

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    I wouldn't want one out of warranty...I'd get the extended warranty w/ any modern vehicle and trade before it expires.  With an EV, a lease really makes the most sense...

    Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar

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    Just now, Zane Wylder said:

    True, and from now on, I'll tone down my comments, but I digress

     

    So when the time comes then, how much is the repair?

    It varies depending on the kilowatt hour of the battery and the type of the battery. I've seen as low as $1,500 for a Prius and $14,000 for a Tesla. The Tesla can be $120,000 car though.

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    Ford, Toyota, GM, and Tesla all had battery buyback programs at one point where you get a trade in value for your old battery. I haven't heard anything in a while so I don't know if they're still active or not.

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    21 hours ago, Zane Wylder said:

    True, and from now on, I'll tone down my comments, but I digress

     

    So when the time comes then, how much is the repair?

    We have reduced the costs of EV battery packs 80% in the last 6 years. As we get more efficient with production as well as recycling and move to solid state batteries, as Hybrid / EV auto's increase in production and sales, prices always come down.

    screen-shot-2015-03-23-at-142210_600x365

    This chart is just one showing where our costs are and how we have already beat 2020 cost projections.

    https://cleantechnica.com/2015/03/26/ev-battery-costs-already-probably-cheaper-than-2020-projections/

    Plenty more info in the story above, but you can bing or google your own "yearly auto battery price reductions for EVs" and see that there is plenty of evidence that shows the cost of a replacement battery is always reducing. By the time you have 250,000 miles or more on the auto, it will be much cheaper for a much superior battery pack or you might not even own the auto any more.

    The low maintenance cost of Hybrid and EV auto's beats ICE auto's and as we learned about lead paint, asbestos, diesel and so many other polluting toxic things, we are learning how to create much better products.

    This all helps with other pollution issue especially in the inner big cities in regards to noise pollution, exhaust pollution, etc. Cleaner, quiet, better.

    21 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Ford, Toyota, GM, and Tesla all had battery buyback programs at one point where you get a trade in value for your old battery. I haven't heard anything in a while so I don't know if they're still active or not.

    Tesla, GM and Toyota along with BMW have all canceled their buy back programs as they have focused on using the warranty replaced batteries in power storage packs available to the public and businesses for solar storage systems. Ford I could not find anything on now.

    Yet with the much higher dependable packs, I think the cost of recycling or dealing with disposal is what has led to the ending of that program it seems.

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    There is no place to plug in a golf cart in the city, which is ironic because electrics are only good as short hop toys, not long distance cruisers.  This is a big country. 

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    5 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

    There is no place to plug in a golf cart in the city, which is ironic because electrics are only good as short hop toys, not long distance cruisers.  This is a big country. 

    A Tesla has a longer cruising range than my Honda. 

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    And when you get low on fuel in the Honda... how much effort do you have to put into finding a place to refuel it in less than 10 minutes so that you can continue your "electric cars for everyone!" tour?

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    I never said EVs for everyone. You're against EVs for anyone. You want to tell people what they can't have. 

    With EVs you must change your mindset on your fill up patterns.  You start each day in a Bolt with a full tank. You "filled up" overnight.  If you're on a trip and need to locate a station to charge up, like everything else, there's an app for that...  In fact there are multiple apps for that.

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    Yes the world has sped up, which makes sitting around a charging station wasting time all the more ridiculous.  You're not going to sell me on this crap.

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    3 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    Yes the world has sped up, which makes sitting around a charging station wasting time all the more ridiculous.  You're not going to sell me on this crap.

    Enjoy your craptastic ICE auto :P as the rest of the world moves forward. Remember to write when you have to wait for that special order of Petro as the rest of the world zips along in EV auto's.

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    22 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    Remember to write when you have to wait for that special order of Petro as the rest of the world zips along in EV auto's.

    This will not occur in any of our lifetimes, Dave.
    In fact, I predict it won't even get to 50% EV usage in our lifetimes.

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    21 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    This will not occur in any of our lifetimes, Dave.
    In fact, I predict it won't even get to 50% EV usage in our lifetimes.

    Thanks my friend, Sarcasm is so hard to get across in writing. :P 

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    Dictionary

    a·pos·tro·phe

    əˈpästrəfē/

    noun

    noun: apostrophe; plural noun: apostrophes

    a punctuation mark ( ’ ) used to indicate either possession (e.g., Harry's book ; boys' coats ) or the omission of letters or numbers (e.g., can't ; he's ; class of ’99 ).

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      “Led by LYRIQ, Cadillac will redefine American luxury over the next decade with a new portfolio of transformative EVs,” said Steve Carlisle, executive vice president and president, GM North America. “We will deliver experiences that engage the senses, anticipate desires and enable our customers to go on extraordinary journeys.”
      The LYRIQ is based on GM’s next-generation, modular electric vehicle platform and driven by the Ultium propulsion system, allowing Cadillac to deliver customers a variety of range and performance options. With range being one of the biggest factors when it comes to selecting an EV, we’re designing LYRIQ to offer beyond 300 miles of range on a full charge, based on internal testing1. Performance and technology highlights include:
      Charging options that fit a variety of preferences for home, the workplace and on the road — including DC fast charging rates over 150 kilowatts and Level 2 charging rates up to 19 kW2. Rear-wheel drive and performance all-wheel drive configurations. The latest version of Super Cruise3, the industry’s first truly hands-free driver assistance feature, available on more than 200,000 miles of compatible highways and recently enhanced to include automated lane change. New technologies such as dual-plane augmented reality-enhanced head-up display and remote self-parking. The brand’s most seamless and adaptive technology interaction with the driver and passengers, including the latest Cadillac user experience, which is showcased in a 33-inch-diagonal advanced LED screen the spans the entire viewing area of the driver. “LYRIQ was conceived to make every journey exhilarating and leverages more than a century of innovation to drive the brand into a new era, while rewarding passengers with a more personal, connected and immersive experience,” said Jamie Brewer, Cadillac LYRIQ chief engineer. “To do this we developed an architecture specifically for EVs.  It is not only an exceptional EV, but first and foremost a Cadillac.”
      LIBERATING PERFORMANCE
      Some luxury EVs today feature adapted traditional internal combustion engine architecture, that is not the case with LYRIQ. Cadillac’s all-new, modular EV platform on which the LYRIQ is based is the foundation for its liberating performance. With a dedicated EV architecture, its design eliminates significant physical constraints associated with adapting electric propulsion within a conventional vehicle architecture, for an optimized design that supports greater driving range, an engaging driving experience and a new interpretation of passenger space.
      Within the LYRIQ, the Ultium battery system is a structural element of the architecture, integrated in ways that contribute to ride and handling, as well as safety. In fact, the lower center of gravity and near 50/50 weight distribution enabled by the placement of the battery pack results in a vehicle that’s sporty, responsive and allows for spirited driving.
      Additionally, the LYRIQ is driven primarily by the rear wheels, with a performance all-wheel drive option available. The placement of the drive motor at the rear of the vehicle contributes an even greater feeling of balance and agility — attributes that affirm Cadillac’s longstanding commitment to satisfying performance. It also enables the system to channel more torque to the pavement without wheelspin for exhilarating acceleration and greater cornering capability. Vehicles equipped with performance all-wheel drive go a step further, with a second drive unit placed at the front of the vehicle, which allows for a significant amount of tuning flexibility, enhancing vehicle dynamics and performance for drivers.
      ALL-NEW ULTIUM BATTERY SYSTEM
      The Cadillac LYRIQ is powered by GM’s new Ultium battery system, which offers approximately 100 kilowatt-hours of energy to deliver stirring performance.
      Ultium’s state-of-the-art NCMA (nickel-cobalt-manganese-aluminum) chemistry uses aluminum in the cathode to help reduce the need for rare-earth materials such as cobalt. In fact, GM engineers reduced the cobalt content by more than 70 percent, compared to current GM batteries.
      The advanced battery chemistry is packed in large, flat pouch cells that enable smart module construction to reduce complexity and simplify cooling needs. Additionally, the battery electronics are incorporated directly into the modules, eliminating nearly 90 percent of the battery pack wiring, compared to GM’s current electric vehicles. 
      When it comes to charging, LYRIQ offers quick and convenient charging options whether at home or on the go. With DC fast charging, the LYRIQ can charge at rates over 150 kW. 
      ARTFULLY INTEGRATED TECHNOLOGY
      Envisioned to make interaction with its technologies more intuitive and rewarding, the LYRIQ’s partnership with the driver and passengers is simultaneously energizing and artful.
      Upon approach, the LYRIQ recognizes the driver and initiates a “greeting” with a choreographed lighting sequence, while also preparing the cabin for the journey, including seat, mirror and climate system adjustments. Once inside, the LYRIQ offers Cadillac’s highest level of driver information, infotainment and connectivity integration, for a more seamless and rewarding experience.
      A 33-inch-diagonal advanced LED display artfully integrates a single, large screen that spans the viewing area for the driver and incorporates driver information details, infotainment controls and camera views. This new display has the highest pixel density available in the automotive industry today and can display over one billion colors, 64 times more than any other vehicle in the automotive industry, providing a stunning in-vehicle experience unlike anything seen before from Cadillac.
      Additional technology and interactive highlights include:
      Battery and charging monitoring conveyed by easy, at-a-glance graphics. The system identifies the vehicle’s energy needs at home and on the go, according to owner preferences, while also monitoring and forecasting energy consumption and providing charging suggestions. New dual-plane augmented reality-enhanced head-up display employs two planes: a near plane indicating speed, direction and more, and a far plane displaying transparent navigation signals and other important alerts. The latest version of Super Cruise, the hands-free driver assistance feature, including automated lane change.3 Supervised remote parking that uses ultrasonic sensors to help the LYRIQ park itself in parallel or perpendicular parking spaces — whether the driver is inside or outside of the vehicle.4 SENSE OF SOUND
      LYRIQ’s technology also addresses sound in two important ways: Blocking unwanted sounds and making the most of the sounds passengers want to hear.
      For the first time, Cadillac will introduce a new road noise cancellation technology, which takes active noise cancellation to the next level by introducing more microphones and accelerometers, which improve noise cancellation abilities. With this new system, Cadillac’s performance and audio engineers can target the frequency range of tire cavity noise, reducing the noise level in the vehicle and allowing for a quieter in-cabin experience.
      The Cadillac LYRIQ builds on the brand’s exclusive partnership with AKG. “With LYRIQ we wanted to deliver a sound experience that would transport the driver from a vehicle into a recording studio,” said Hussein Khalil, Cadillac lead audio design release engineer. “With the AKG sound system, we are able to deliver this experience along with the quality and reliability luxury customers expect.”
      At launch, LYRIQ will offer a 19-speaker AKG Studio audio system that delivers exceptionally crisp and precise sound reproduction, enabling drivers and passengers to enjoy their favorite music.
      NEW FACE OF CADILLAC
      Cadillac’s first electric SUV makes a bold design statement that introduces a new face, proportion and presence for the brand’s new generation of EVs. It’s a forward-looking vision unconstrained by the needs of a traditional internal combustion engine and driveline.
      “The LYRIQ represents the next iteration of the iconic brand’s styling, enabled by electrification, as only Cadillac can express,” said Andrew Smith, executive director, Global Cadillac Design. “Inside and out, LYRIQ is a thoughtful integration of design and technology and is intended to make every drive an occasion.”
      Defined by taut lines and clean surfaces, LYRIQ is assertive and modern, characterized with a low, fast roofline and wide stance that emphasize agility and convey confidence. Additional details such as a flow-through roof spoiler express the careful attention paid to aerodynamics to optimize efficiency on the highway.
      A distinctive “black crystal” grille in the front is one of the LYRIQ’s most unique and expressive design elements. It is also a dynamic feature, as it is part of a dramatic lighting choreography that — along with bold vertical, slim LED signature lighting — greets the owner upon approach. At the rear, a split taillamp design incorporates slim LEDs that are also integrated into the lighting choreography.
      Inside, the LYRIQ’s new electric vehicle architecture opens up possibilities in vehicle spaciousness and design; and Cadillac designers used this as an opportunity to rethink how to use the space and where to locate various interior elements.
      The result is a more airy, minimalistic design that does more to involve the driver and passengers in the driving experience while offering exceptional functionality when it comes to storage solutions. It is also brimming with subtle yet obsessive details such as backlit speaker grilles, curved screens with hidden storage and, like the exterior, orchestrated lighting features.
    • By David
      Cadillac division sent out this email saying that the Cadillac Lyriq reveal will be August 6th 2020 @ 7PM. 
      Now the interesting part is what time zone? EST, MST, PST,.......... 🤔

  • Posts

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