ZETA - Zero Emission Transportation Association - What is it?

2030- 8.5 years from now???
 

They’ve already reduced their own credibility to zero. Unless you approach a monumental consumer-related shift with realism of the situation, you already failed. The major accomplishment this entity will achieve is to start a revenue stream. 

27 minutes ago, balthazar said:

2030- 8.5 years from now???
 

They’ve already reduced their own credibility to zero. Unless you approach a monumental consumer-related shift with realism of the situation, you already failed. The major accomplishment this entity will achieve is to start a revenue stream. 

We are 2020 now, 2030 is 10 years from now, not 8.5 years. 

I honestly do not see why we could not have the consumer auto market selling electric only by 2030. This is possible over the next 10 years. We have seen change like this happen in many other industries where 10 years later what they sell versus a decade earlier is vastly different.

Price.
 

I went off model years- we’re into the ‘21’s already. Let’s call it 9 years. Either way, it’s impossible. 
 

Instead of arbitrarily pegging a near-future year, why not simply focus on the products/manufacturers and state programs. They set themselves up for failure; many of the announced ev vehicles aren’t coming out until ‘22 or ‘23, IF they hit that mark. Look at Trsla’s track record of announcement vs actual on-sale dates.

If one doesn’t ignore the futurists and focus on the actual numbers, they’re not being serious.

Here’s a great example; Look at LED taillights. Inspired by dump trucks and school buses, LED tails were heralded as illuminating quicker (“saving lives”), burning less fuel (however microscopically less), and the actual per vehicle cost increase was pennies. But there are still incandescent bulbs in new vehicle tails. Know when the first production LED tails came out?
 

1993.

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

Here’s a great example; Look at LED taillights. Inspired by dump trucks and school buses, LED tails were heralded as illuminating quicker (“saving lives”), burning less fuel (however microscopically less), and the actual per vehicle cost increase was pennies. But there are still incandescent bulbs in new vehicle tails. Know when the first production LED tails came out?
 

1993.

I think one of the issues is also long term contracts. Businesses are looking at bonus payments to executives / mgmt. and as such squeeze every penny for profit versus looking at the long term of pay out the cancellation fee to the supplier and change to a better technology faster.

I honestly think the auto industry could improve auto's faster if they did not look at 5 to 10 year contracts. The more often changes happening in the last few years is making me think even the OEMs have finally woke up to the fact they have to change at a faster pace like the tech industry. 

While the tech industry is focused on new tech every 90 to 180 days of which I do not think the auto industry needs to change that fast, they should be looking at no more than 2 years before updating to newer tech from lights to interior materials, etc. Change has to happen faster than having an auto go 10 years of the same tech. 

Honestly I am surprised some products like Toyota Tundra have gone on so long or the Nissan pickup truck. 

Stagnant auto tech will be the death of an auto company as we move forward. They have to change faster.

If a product is competitive within it's segment still, it actually doesn't.

IMO; one of the most annoying things about tech IS the rapid pace of change. It's completely a form of planned obsolescence, IE; "your $800 phone is, like, so last year", meanwhile every next generation seems to see smaller and smaller increments of change. Most of the specs on an iphone 11 vs. 12 are identical.

This is a bunch of misguided dreamers who believe they are better decision makers than the public at large.  The people with money, the general public, rule with their wallets.  Scary how ridiculous this initiative is if you... just THINK about it.  A joke!

13 hours ago, ocnblu said:

This is a bunch of misguided dreamers who believe they are better decision makers than the public at large.  The people with money, the general public, rule with their wallets.  Scary how ridiculous this initiative is if you... just THINK about it.  A joke!

Right, and the Free market is saying it wants electric products...which is why they are starting to show up in all sorts of interesting places. 

Ford wouldn't be investing this kind of money if it didn't see this as the wave of the future...

https://fordauthority.com/2020/11/ford-makes-significant-investments-hires-hundreds-to-produce-electric-vehicles/

The future is here, no matter how much people in smaller Pennsylvania towns hold their beath, watch their faces turn red in the mirror, and collapse on the floor asphyxiated in a fit of rage. Get over it and grow up. Seriously.

Apparently people in Indiana are holding their breath in fits of rage also...

https://www.thestarpress.com/story/news/crime/2020/11/17/modoc-man-charged-shooting-wind-turbine-workers/6321921002/?fbclid=IwAR0zySQLhtirUe6m6lLBzZOSQEyIhRXHf4BnNyR3j-636vtEdNDCB6rEqYo

WINCHESTER, Ind. — A Randolph County man is accused of firing gunshots in a bid to frighten workers installing wind turbines near his home.

David E. Oakerson, 45, of rural Modoc, was charged last week in Randolph Superior Court with criminal recklessness, a Level 6 felony carrying up to 30 months in prison, and two misdemeanor counts of intimidation.

Hopefully, you get the point....

Meanwhile technology and progress marches on...

OEMs certainly can bring out all sorts of electric vehicles... but you can't FORCE a consumer to buy them; that has to come organically. They are the newbie that has to compete for the consumer's wallet by being competitive to the established market. Perhaps one day it will be a sweeping tide, and I expect it to increase substantially over time... but there's no way you can mandate it by decree in 9 years. All realistic future projections have to be based largely on present & past plots.

10 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Right, and the Free market is saying it wants electric products...

REALLY?  TWO PERCENT OF THE US AUTOMOTIVE MARKET?  Go back in your hole.

7 hours ago, balthazar said:

OEMs certainly can bring out all sorts of electric vehicles... but you can't FORCE a consumer to buy them;

Sane reply.  Realistic reply.  Levelheaded reply.

On 11/18/2020 at 6:51 PM, ocnblu said:

This is a bunch of misguided dreamers who believe they are better decision makers than the public at large.  The people with money, the general public, rule with their wallets.  Scary how ridiculous this initiative is if you... just THINK about it.  A joke!

Americans have been coached by the other side using that same premise for decades. Why does Big Oil think they know better than the public?

See how that works or do you live in a world where one side is always right and the other side is always wrong?

3 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Sane reply.  Realistic reply.  Levelheaded reply.

Maybe you should take some notes.

13 hours ago, balthazar said:

OEMs certainly can bring out all sorts of electric vehicles... but you can't FORCE a consumer to buy them; that has to come organically. They are the newbie that has to compete for the consumer's wallet by being competitive to the established market. Perhaps one day it will be a sweeping tide, and I expect it to increase substantially over time... but there's no way you can mandate it by decree in 9 years. All realistic future projections have to be based largely on present & past plots.

and yet they won't let permits be granted for precious metal mining to make all these kajillion batteries.

no charge network, cold weather issues.  yes, it will take time for the technology develop for the MASSES.

Unless they are trying to get the masses out of their cars and only select few get a car.  

7 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Maybe you should take some notes.

DUUUUDE, Balthy said the same thing I said, what on rare earth are you talking abote?

7 hours ago, regfootball said:

and yet they won't let permits be granted for precious metal mining to make all these kajillion batteries.

no charge network, cold weather issues.  yes, it will take time for the technology develop for the MASSES.

Unless they are trying to get the masses out of their cars and only select few get a car.  

 

Battery tech is moving away from precious rare earth elements and that is proven in a variety of new solid state battery production that comes online next year for a wide variety of EVs that will be produced next year and moving forward.

No Charging Network, please state where you actually live as I am willing to bet there are far more charging options than you are aware of or willing to acknowledge. Cold weather issues have been made moot. How you will ask, easy just like ICE auto's loose MPG efficiency in cold weather, batteries do too, to offset this, we have Hydro thermal management and that has been proven well by Tesla and GM in their current EVs where people have lost some range but over all still have plenty to get out and about to work, errands, etc.

You are right on it will take time and yet we have seen where properly motivated and supported, you can change the masses to embrace change.

NORWAY leads the world with over 60% of new auto sales being EVs for the last 2 years and climbing. Yes a small country compared to the US, but a great example of how they have embraced change for a better healthy life for the MASSES.

Here are sites that track where one can charge their EV.

https://www.plugshare.com/

https://chargehub.com/en/charging-stations-map.html

If you do not like 3rd party mapping sites, then use the Governments own location site that shows the 100's of thousands of charging locations and growing.

https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_stations.html

^ There's a 10-outlet location across the highway from me... but Tesla's only. There's 2 outlets at my municipal building about 2 miles from me... but for municipal vehicles only (I've never seen an EV municipal vehicle in their fleet). There's 2 outlets at a nissan dealer about 2 miles from me, but you have to call ahead to use. There's 2 outlets at a school about 4 miles from me, that's 24/7 available.

A LONG way to go to be comparable right here.

Meanwhile, I have like 20 pumps at a Costco, 16 pumps at a Raceway, like 10 pumps at a Fuel One, like 20 pumps at a Speedway prolly 12 pumps at a BP, a Valero, a WAWA.... I'm sure others, all within a 2 miles.

6 hours ago, ocnblu said:

DUUUUDE, Balthy said the same thing I said, what on rare earth are you talking abote?

YOU have never spoken about EVs in a sane manner as Balthazar. That’s the point that clearly flew over your cerebral mind. 

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

^ There's a 10-outlet location across the highway from me... but Tesla's only. There's 2 outlets at my municipal building about 2 miles from me... but for municipal vehicles only (I've never seen an EV municipal vehicle in their fleet). There's 2 outlets at a nissan dealer about 2 miles from me, but you have to call ahead to use. There's 2 outlets at a school about 4 miles from me, that's 24/7 available.

A LONG way to go to be comparable right here.

Meanwhile, I have like 20 pumps at a Costco, 16 pumps at a Raceway, like 10 pumps at a Fuel One, like 20 pumps at a Speedway prolly 12 pumps at a BP, a Valero, a WAWA.... I'm sure others, all within a 2 miles.

And in Phoenix metro, they are literally everywhere. Point being, they are getting there at a faster rate than before. Hell, even in NC, I’m seeing more and more public charging stations. The Wal-Mart near my old place in Greensboro, NC had a twelve bay charging station there. 

Oh and when you have had a 100 year head start on infrastructure, you better have gas stations everywhere at this point. That doesn’t mean there isn’t an increase in EV stations nationwide. For the record, there are 455 public charging stations in New Jersey. While obviously not as many as gas stations, there is no small number so perhaps you don’t see that many because you’re not really looking for them, being that you don’t own an EV in the first place. And the biggest thing you are skipping over is the fact that while the number of public charging station places pale in comparison to gas station in said area, I can’t fill up my car every night at home since I don’t have a gas pump hooked up to my house. EVs, on the other hand...just saying. 

https://njdep.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=e41aa50dd8cd45faba8641b6be6097b1

2 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

YOU have never spoken about EVs in a sane manner as Balthazar. That’s the point that clearly flew over your cerebral mind. 

How debate happens on EV's here at C and G...

1 hour ago, A Horse With No Name said:

How debate happens on EV's here at C and G...

THIS!!! I am dying here! LMMFAO!

Thanks Horse! I needed that laugh!

No, surreal; I’m not driving around in my TD looking for charging locations, that’s why I used an online locator for my info. Only one I was aware of visibly was the Tesla one.
And while I get that things were different 90 years ago, just like they will be 90 from now, I can’t make a vehicle purchase in either of those times. 

3 minutes ago, balthazar said:

No, surreal; I’m not driving around in my TD looking for charging locations, that’s why I used an online locator for my info. Only one I was aware of visibly was the Tesla one.
And while I get that things were different 90 years ago, just like they will be 90 from now, I can’t make a vehicle purchase in either of those times. 

Now see if you could just turn that electric Delorean into a time machine you could make a vehicle purchase in both and prove to Blu once and for all the viability of electric vehicles.

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

No, surreal; I’m not driving around in my TD looking for charging locations, that’s why I used an online locator for my info. Only one I was aware of visibly was the Tesla one.
And while I get that things were different 90 years ago, just like they will be 90 from now, I can’t make a vehicle purchase in either of those times. 

I get what you’re trying to say but why ignore certain positives like the fact that you can just charge your car at home unlike with gas? That, to me, offsets some of the current infrastructure limitations. There are more and more charging stations popping up everywhere, and people who are actually buying EVs are well aware of this fact.