Jump to content
  • Greetings Guest!

    CheersandGears.com was founded in 2001 and is one of the oldest continuously operating automotive forums out there.  Come see why we have users who visit nearly every day for the past 16+ years. Signup is fast and free, or you can opt for a premium subscription to view the site ad-free.

Sign in to follow this  
Drew Dowdell

LAIAS: 2009 Lincoln MKS

Recommended Posts

It's most direct competition is the Buick Lucerne CXS, and despite the slight power disadvantage and the greater weight, I can see people preferring the MKS. Next closest will be the Cadillac DTS, but with more power and a higher price, that's a step up from the base MKS.

If not the CXS, the Lucerne Super will MSRP around $38k. The MKS has some appeal over the Lucerne, especially with AWD available. I'll have to see the MKS in person. I wasn't impressed with the new Volvo S80 in the flesh, so I'll have to hold off to form a stronger opinion.

No, this is more an ES350 competitor, something the MKZ can only dream of doing.

Lincoln's direct competitor for the ES350 is the MKZ. They're the same size (length within an inch; Same weight; interior volume close... MKZ has a larger trunk), same class, and the interior material quality between the ES & MKZ are on par. Both have features the other lacks, such as the MKZhas LED lights, AWD, and now SYNC. The ES350 has... a Lexus badge on a Camry platform (which is Fusion's direct competitor.)

As for Buick, the LaCrosse replacement will more than likely be Buick's direct competitor to the MKZ and ES350.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If not the CXS, the Lucerne Super will MSRP around $38k. The MKS has some appeal over the Lucerne, especially with AWD available. I'll have to see the MKS in person. I wasn't impressed with the new Volvo S80 in the flesh, so I'll have to hold off to form a stronger opinion.

Lincoln's direct competitor for the ES350 is the MKZ. They're the same size (length within an inch; Same weight; interior volume close... MKZ has a larger trunk), same class, and the interior material quality between the ES & MKZ are on par. Both have features the other lacks, such as the MKZhas LED lights, AWD, and now SYNC. The ES350 has... a Lexus badge on a Camry platform (which is Fusion's direct competitor.)

As for Buick, the LaCrosse replacement will more than likely be Buick's direct competitor to the MKZ and ES350.

True, but to make up for the MKZ's lack of luxury and equipment, Lincoln prices it significantly lower than the ES350, which starts at $37,490 with leather. The MKS looks like a compelling alternative to the ES350, in that it's priced similarly but offers more interior space, kinda like how Ford positions the Taurus as a Camry V-6 alternative.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

True, but to make up for the MKZ's lack of luxury and equipment, Lincoln prices it significantly lower than the ES350, which starts at $37,490 with leather. The MKS looks like a compelling alternative to the ES350, in that it's priced similarly but offers more interior space, kinda like how Ford positions the Taurus as a Camry V-6 alternative.

Taurus can go up to $35k+ fully loaded with memory seats, AWD, etc. It's clearly competing in size/class with the Avalon.

The MKZ isn't lacking really anything in luxury compared to the ES350 except perception... oh yeah, and the ES350 is over priced.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The exterior is pretty sleek, but the interior seems pretty drab and unimaginative. I see this needing a new interior within a couple of years, or maybe Ford will just keep giving it small enhancements for 35 years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest YellowJacket894

Did Ford ... did they secretly buy Oldsmobile or something? Slap a rocket badge on the front, and you could pass this off as some half-assed Cutlass concept, at least from the front.

That aside, it's a solid car, pretty nice. No Cadillac (or even Chrysler) competitor as it should be, but it's not bad. It's just a Taurus named after a famous president.

Myself? I'm waiting for this:

Posted Image

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the exterior look of it. The interior looks too similar in shape and style to the Taurus and Volvo S80. Being a front driver, it won't win any handling awards, I am not sure what the turbo will make, but what will the point be, even with awd, it will still be front heavy and probably torque steer.

They do offer some good technology for the price like adaptive cruise control, adaptive headlights, push button start, capless gas tank. But I think this will only appeal to current Lincoln/Mercury buyers or the Bonneville/Aurora/Seville/300M etc crowd that likes roomy and front drive. This car is way better than the Lucerne, but that isn't saying much. The big front drive car segment is shrinking fast, this may appeal to some of the old die hard fans of it, but that is about it.

Built on the Taurus DE3 platform is a huge downside.

Edited by smk4565

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so funny all the backlash considering this car is better than 90% of the rolling piles of $h! that are in everyone's garage now.

i can't recall what the power figures are going to be for the twinforce version of this car....like 370 or something.

again, this car was not conceived to duel a 5 series. But to be a decent alternative to say, an ES Lexus...sure.

Audi, Volvo and Saab and Honda have been selling luxury cars for years built on FWD platforms. Not ideal, but they still maintain a decent standing in the lux car pecking order. Look at Acura, the RL (really lame, with SHAWD!) TL (totally lame or thoroughly lame, take your pick) RDX (really dumb Xover) and MDX (just mildly dumb crossover). All front drive. Not to mention the Canadian exclusive EL (extremely lame).

So funny for someone like you to talk about backlash when you don't have an unbiased bone in your body. C&G needs a Reg filter, that rids of all the idiocies and only shows the few things worth reading of yours.

As others have mentioned, Lincoln needs a real flagship, not some mildly luxurious sedan built on an also ran platform devoid of much style beyond a grill that isn't even Lincoln's. I put this on the same level as the Lucerne, which, isn't a compliment. Neither are terrible vehicles, but... They don't deserve much praise. Perhaps a blurred compliment here or there. For Lincoln's sake, I hope it sells. I'm sure they'll be some old Continental owners ready to buy... if they haven't died.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

oh really? honda is god because they can't sell any RL's which have no power, no style, cost too much and are front wheel based as well? tell me how the RL is a market star? tell me why when you look at acura's sales lately they are great big negatives. tell me why the MDX costs 10 grand more than the lambdas. tell me why the rdx is close to 40k yet only packs a 4 cylinder turbo that outconsumes many of GM's full sized products.

because the mks is a viable alternative to the ES lexus ? or the lower content a6's or all the glorified hondas.

because the twinforce v6 with powershift will nudge 400hp with one of the segments first dual clutch trannies?

because the mks is better than what's in your garage? I don't suspect you'll be owning an M3 any time soon.

No one said this car was Jesus Christ on a stick. Go back and read, I already said this car is not meant to compete with BMW or mercedes.

step back long enough to digest the message in the post before you go off with personal $h! again. you cannot seem to post without taking jabs at people and that is pure bull$h!. so cut the fricking punk crap already and grow up. grow some balls.

when i comment on something its about the cars, i don't use posts to direct comments at people like you seem to make sport of.

Edited by regfootball

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know it's funny how so many are calling this an ES competitor like it's a good thing. Thing is, the ES isn't Lexus' flagship, it's entry level along with the IS, the MKS is the flagship for Lincoln. Not good.

They need the MKR.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This isn't a Lincoln flagship, but neither is the MKR.

A Lincoln flagship needs to be big, needs to be RWD, and needs to have a V8 or twinforce standard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

oh really? honda is god because they can't sell any RL's which have no power, no style, cost too much and are front wheel based as well? tell me how the RL is a market star? tell me why when you look at acura's sales lately they are great big negatives. tell me why the MDX costs 10 grand more than the lambdas. tell me why the rdx is close to 40k yet only packs a 4 cylinder turbo that outconsumes many of GM's full sized products.

because the mks is a viable alternative to the ES lexus ? or the lower content a6's or all the glorified hondas.

because the twinforce v6 with powershift will nudge 400hp with one of the segments first dual clutch trannies?

because the mks is better than what's in your garage? I don't suspect you'll be owning an M3 any time soon.

No one said this car was Jesus Christ on a stick. Go back and read, I already said this car is not meant to compete with BMW or mercedes.

step back long enough to digest the message in the post before you go off with personal $h! again. you cannot seem to post without taking jabs at people and that is pure bull$h!. so cut the fricking punk crap already and grow up. grow some balls.

when i comment on something its about the cars, i don't use posts to direct comments at people like you seem to make sport of.

I only take the poster into account when it's needed. Whenever you stop with the unrelenting bias and hypocrisy, I'll stop noticing. I only call it like I see it. I'm not the only one.

Going back to the MKS, which was the main point of interest in my post, not you... It doesn't matter what you say. This is supposed to be Lincoln's flagship. No matter how you spin it, it's a pathetic excuse for a flagship. No one here is saying the RL is any better. You can bash it all you want, but at the end of the day, how can you sit here and defend the MKS? It's nonsense. I'm sure it'll make many people happy and will please a number of Lincoln/Mercury faithfuls. However, as has been the main point in this thread... It's not special. It's not flagship material regardless of not being a BMW fighter. I'd argue that the old Lincoln LS was much more of a flagship than this thing will ever become. It had style, luxury, and a deserving platform. Again, spin it however you want, but as I said... The MKS is simply a mildly luxurious sedan built on an also ran platform devoid of much style beyond a grill that isn't even Lincoln's. If you can legitimately tell me it's a deserving flagship or an exceptional vehicle, I'm afraid my comments are just.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it's only a flagship if you consider Lincoln to be a Buick equivalent.

I don't think that's the direction Lincoln should take. They should aim for the luxurious side of Mercedes Benz.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They should be able to sell ~20K units a year, considering a relatively low investment this vehicle required that might not be a bad number.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know why I don't like this car? One reason:

Posted Image

We could have had that.

That would get me to jump ship from GM. That would get Chrysler 300C owners to jump ship. That could likely even get non-snob E-class and GS owners to jump ship. Even if it didn't have all the cool concept stuff and suicide doors or weird trunk. Just keep the outside shape and styling, put it on the DEW98 platform. Profit.

Oh sheesh! That thing is about as attractive as Darth Vader in drag. And nearly as dated. On the MKS — the interior is a feast of plastic. And fit and finish... check out the wrinkled, poor application of the leather dash at the driver's side air vent. Definitely a better execution of exterior style and proportion than the Taurus and Sable, more viable than the dinosaur they call the Town Car.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the front end is killer. All these new Lincoln front ends and concept front ends ROCK! A design like that... and Oldsmobile would still be right up there with chevy!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I only take the poster into account when it's needed. Whenever you stop with the unrelenting bias and hypocrisy, I'll stop noticing. I only call it like I see it. I'm not the only one.

Going back to the MKS, which was the main point of interest in my post, not you... It doesn't matter what you say. This is supposed to be Lincoln's flagship. No matter how you spin it, it's a pathetic excuse for a flagship. No one here is saying the RL is any better. You can bash it all you want, but at the end of the day, how can you sit here and defend the MKS? It's nonsense. I'm sure it'll make many people happy and will please a number of Lincoln/Mercury faithfuls. However, as has been the main point in this thread... It's not special. It's not flagship material regardless of not being a BMW fighter. I'd argue that the old Lincoln LS was much more of a flagship than this thing will ever become. It had style, luxury, and a deserving platform. Again, spin it however you want, but as I said... The MKS is simply a mildly luxurious sedan built on an also ran platform devoid of much style beyond a grill that isn't even Lincoln's. If you can legitimately tell me it's a deserving flagship or an exceptional vehicle, I'm afraid my comments are just.

Completely agree.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The MKR concept was pure poetry, gorgeous. It's what Lincoln needs. In comparison, this MKS (from pics) is a huge letdown, but compared to much of it's intended segment, it's seems quite capable. It's not going to shake things up, tho.

Has Lincoln called the MKS it's 'flagship', or is it assumedly so due to it's position in the marque?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Front end looks pretty good, interior is still pretty boring even with the sculpture in the upper IP, and rear and body are very boring. Hit or miss I'm sure. Just pretty bland and they should be looking to wow the entire competition. Look at the CTS and take notes, Lincoln.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Front end looks pretty good, interior is still pretty boring even with the sculpture in the upper IP, and rear and body are very boring. Hit or miss I'm sure. Just pretty bland and they should be looking to wow the entire competition. Look at the CTS and take notes, Lincoln.

Lincoln is getting sales on cheap. Considering the situation that might be a responsible thing to do. If they get lucky MKZ/MKX/MKS combined will sell ~100K units, that's about the same as what CTS/STS/SRX are doing for a while now. I bet that assuming a similar volume Lincolns trio is more profitable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It looks pretty good. Very classy and elegant. I don't think it will "save" Lincoln, though. It will help but Lincoln needs a lot more...like the MKR.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lincoln is getting sales on cheap. Considering the situation that might be a responsible thing to do. If they get lucky MKZ/MKX/MKS combined will sell ~100K units, that's about the same as what CTS/STS/SRX are doing for a while now. I bet that assuming a similar volume Lincolns trio is more profitable.

i think it's recongnizing what market is available to them, realizing the prices that they can get, and building enough car to sell them at enough profit and volume to keep the dealer doors open.

what people are so lame to forget is that lincoln's lineup as it is now was not conceived to duel MB/BMW/Cadillac and was all conceived under the premise of Jaguar as the premeir Ford luxury brand. It's probably been intentionally positioned to be somewhere between Buick and Volvo and Acura and quite honestly its not law for them to have an M5 equivalent or an XLR equivalent, etc. I think L/M sales were up on the newer models last i checked. So if they sell the expected volume, make the sales, make profit and keep the dealerships healthy.......and there is only a limited market of top dollar luxury cars, if this keep Lincoln existing rather than dying, then you all will just have to accept it.

Yeah they left the LS die on the vine and did not replace it. that was wrong to do but i think they are working on it. give it time.

last I checked Lincoln has put out 3 new models in the last 2 years. Caddy has only put out 1 i think. Acuras sedans are graying. Look how ancient the DTS is and how it won't be fixed till like 2010.

Considering how Jac Nasser starved the company and how inept bill F was running it initially, you have to accept that this is all they get for now and like GM it will take time to rebuild the lineup.

I would venture to say the MKs will have as many takers as the new CTS. they will be for different reasons, but 60,000 of CTS sales is no better or worse than MKs sales. In light of what they had to work with and if they sell that many, I doubt they would whine about that over at Ford.

Edited by regfootball

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i think it's recongnizing what market is available to them, realizing the prices that they can get, and building enough car to sell them at enough profit and volume to keep the dealer doors open.

what people are so lame to forget is that lincoln's lineup as it is now was not conceived to duel MB/BMW/Cadillac and was all conceived under the premise of Jaguar as the premeir Ford luxury brand. It's probably been intentionally positioned to be somewhere between Buick and Volvo and Acura and quite honestly its not law for them to have an M5 equivalent or an XLR equivalent, etc. I think L/M sales were up on the newer models last i checked. So if they sell the expected volume, make the sales, make profit and keep the dealerships healthy.......and there is only a limited market of top dollar luxury cars, if this keep Lincoln existing rather than dying, then you all will just have to accept it.

Yeah they left the LS die on the vine and did not replace it. that was wrong to do but i think they are working on it. give it time.

last I checked Lincoln has put out 3 new models in the last 2 years. Caddy has only put out 1 i think. Acuras sedans are graying. Look how ancient the DTS is and how it won't be fixed till like 2010.

Considering how Jac Nasser starved the company and how inept bill F was running it initially, you have to accept that this is all they get for now and like GM it will take time to rebuild the lineup.

I would venture to say the MKs will have as many takers as the new CTS. they will be for different reasons, but 60,000 of CTS sales is no better or worse than MKs sales. In light of what they had to work with and if they sell that many, I doubt they would whine about that over at Ford.

Cadillac deserves almost as much criticism as Lincoln these days. Clearly Lincoln is down because of lack of investment, on the other hand GM made a huge investment in Cadillac just to end up with no 3-series competitor, no 7-series competitor and two cars competing with 5-series of which one is not good enough to do the job and the other one nobody even knows it's competing with 5-series.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the front end is killer. All these new Lincoln front ends and concept front ends ROCK! A design like that... and Oldsmobile would still be right up there with chevy!

I agree 100%. Styling wise, this car is a home run, IMO. The interior is very, very nice also. Features like the huge sunroof and powerful engine will help sell this car. This will be a sporty car, especially in AWD form. It's funny how much criticism this car is getting for being the "flagship." As the nicest sedan in Lincoln's lineup, this car is the flagship by default; like the M is for Infiniti. And just as the Q will debut in another year or so, Lincoln is rumored to have a full size RWD flagship in the works with an all all new V8.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I hate to disagree, FWD or AWD this thing is great looking. I think it is one of the sharpest cars out there. Smooth lines big Lincoln front end, refined interior, great profile nice detail touches. And I want one, almost as much as a DTS now that is saying something... But if the prices push much over 42K for a loaded one, they won't sell very well. But I really do think it is sweet looking and if I had the money would consider getting one! Size wise what are they close too anyone know? The interior is sweet, too I like it as much as the new CTS actually. :duck: I need to give Ford credit where credit is do. Your right this is not a flagship car tho.

Edited by gm4life

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The MKS is a stopgap product...a way to fill the Chicago plant's volume & a way to put a car out that ducks, in essence, much of the competition. It's a large car, FWD/AWD, when most of the competition in this space are going RWD with smaller vehicles.

Will it have the enthusiasts salivating-No. But it might just capture a piece of the market that Lincoln was giving away, regardless. To me, Acura, Infiniti & Buick have all had sedans in this space, selling decent volumes. Infiniti replaced the I35 with nothing, Acura moved the RL too far upmarket and Buick has the Lucerne covering ground that was once held by 2 sedans, so it may not be a bad strategic move.

We've got a F-L/M showroom, so I'm sure we'll get a good idea about this one rather quickly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your content will need to be approved by a moderator

Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Who's Online   0 Members, 0 Anonymous, 27 Guests (See full list)

    There are no registered users currently online



About us

CheersandGears.com - Founded 2001

We ♥ Cars

Get in touch

Follow us

Recent tweets

facebook

×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.