bluewaternetwork

[Angry Dad]

http://www.bluewaternetwork.org/

Dang, even the treehuggers are hatin' on Toyota

Sorry if it's been covered on another thread. Edited October 24, 2005 by Angry Dad

[sciguy_0504]

Funny how even their own data supports the assumption that a hybrid Highlander is more fuel efficient than a normal Highlander. Even if the hybrid version "gets the same MPG" as a normal Highlander it sure as hell has better emissions. Using the EPA's fuel economy website, I found out a normal Highlander (FWD, V6) emits 8.9 tons of greenhouse gasses each year and is rated ULEVII while the hybrid version (FWD, V6) releases 6.3 tons and is rated SULEVII. For comparison, a normal Ford Escape (FWD, I4) emits 8.0 tons of greenhouse gasses and is rated LEV while the hybrid version (FWD, I4) released 5.8 tons and is rated SULEVII.

[Snate]

If I'm gonna spend 8K extra on something it better do more than pollute slightly less.

[Bimmer325]

If I'm gonna spend 8K extra on something it better do more than pollute slightly less.

[post="33574"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

90% less smog-forming pollutants and half as much climate-changing carbon dioxide is slightly less?

[siegen]

I can understand if a Hybrid gets insane gas mileage, that it would be worth the extra money to buy one and the possible extra costs for maintenance.. But if it gets the same or barely more then why bother?

I looked at the Prius and a few different websites and reviews, and it looks like 45-50mpg is a very common mileage for most prius owners around town and hwy driving.... Wait a minute... 45-50mpg?? That isn't incredible like Toyota advertises it to be! What the hell? You listen to these commercials and they make is sound like this Prius is so amazing you'll never half to fill up or something, and that their hybrid-Synergy is the answer to all our problems. I can buy a base model 6-speed TSX (IE: no weight adding accessories like navi, cargo net, trunk tray, etc), and with proper driving habits get close to those numbers, yet it's twice as fast and maintenance is a breeze (among a million other advantages).

90% less smog-forming pollutants and half as much climate-changing carbon dioxide is slightly less?

I have a feeling those numbers are similar to the estimated MPG. I'm sure in real world driving, the Prius would put out more pollutants. Also, what are they comparing that to? The "average" gasoline car, which is what? Edited October 25, 2005 by siegen

[Snate]

QUOTE
"90% less smog-forming pollutants and half as much climate-changing carbon dioxide is slightly less?"


I have a feeling those numbers are similar to the estimated MPG. I'm sure in real world driving, the Prius would put out more pollutants. Also, what are they comparing that to? The "average" gasoline car, which is what?

That's pretty much what I'm saying.

It also begs the question...if you are that concerned about the environment...why are you buying an SUV to begin with.

[regfootball]

and croc gets 28 mpg with the vette

[regfootball]

90% less smog-forming pollutants and half as much climate-changing carbon dioxide is slightly less?

[post="33596"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

we're talking mpg and $$$$ here.....

[BrewSwillis]

You want to really reduce emissions. Then get a manual or electric lawnmower....well, maybe just manual, becasue electricity has to come from somewhere:

Conserve energy in the home and yard
Yard maintenance contributes significantly to greenhouse emissions. Per hour of operation, a power lawn mower emits 10-12 times as much hydrocarbon as a typical auto. A weedeater emits 21 times more and a leaf blower 34 times more.

http://eartheasy.com/article_global_warming.htm

[Newbiewar]

ON MSN's Home Page

http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/ticker/ar...37&Symbol=US:TM

DETROIT (AP) - Toyota Motor Corp. sells more hybrid vehicles than any other automaker, but an environmental group is targeting the company anyway, saying the average fuel economy of Toyota vehicles is worse than it was 20 years ago.

San Francisco-based Bluewater Network, which advocates government action to reduce dependence on fossil fuels, plans to run newspaper ads this week with the headline, "Is Toyota a Wolf in Sheep's Clothing?" The ads feature a photograph of Toyota President Katsuaki Watanabe alongside a wolf in a business suit.

Bluewater Network says Toyota belongs to organizations that are suing California over its new smog regulations. It also says Toyota's vehicles are becoming less fuel efficient. According to a recent report by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, the average fuel economy for Toyota's fleet was 30 miles per gallon in 1985 and is 27.5 miles per gallon this year.

"Is this the same company that brought us the hybrid Prius, claiming to be an environmental leader?" the ad asks.

Bluewater Network took on Ford Motor Co. in 2003 after the automaker reneged on a promise to increase the fuel economy of its vehicles by 25 percent. But this is the first time Toyota has been a target of similar ads. Toyota spokeswoman Nancy Hubbell said the automaker was surprised and disappointed.

"We certainly think of ourselves as an environmental leader," Hubbell said.

Hubbell acknowledged Toyota's average fuel economy has fallen in the last 20 years, but she said that's because the mix of vehicles has changed and now includes trucks and sport utility vehicles.

"Toyota's line of vehicles has definitely changed, but that's based on consumer preferences," Hubbell said.

Hubbell said Toyota does belong to two alliances that are suing California over its new standards. But she said that's because Toyota wants the federal government -- not states -- to pass tough new national standards.

Danielle Fugere of the Bluewater Network said Toyota should simply adopt California's tougher standards instead of fighting them, especially since 10 other states are considering adopting those standards.

Toyota has said it wants hybrids to make up 25 percent of its U.S. sales by early in the next decade, up from around 3 percent of its sales last year. In addition to its Prius hybrid, Toyota has two hybrid SUVs on the market and plans to add hybrid systems to the Camry and Lexus GS sedans next year.

Fugere also criticized Toyota's hybrid SUVs, the Highlander Hybrid and the Lexus RX400h, saying their fuel economy isn't much better than their non-hybrid counterparts. Toyota says the mileage is still better than many passenger cars.

"We think that misleads the public who believe hybrid technology comes with a fuel efficiency increase," Fugere said. "Toyota is not fulfilling its promise."

John Barker, president of New York-based DZP Marketing, questioned Bluewater Network's strategy and said the ads will likely have little impact.

"By inexplicably taking on one of the acknowledged leaders of the environmental movement, they discredit themselves and their cause," Barker said.

[Sixty8panther]

90% less smog-forming pollutants and half as much climate-changing carbon dioxide is slightly less?

[post="33596"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Still a drop in the porverbial bucket. Ever seen an F15 fly overhead? Tat sucker dumps out more emissions in 20 seconds than my Camaro wiht no cats does in a years worth of driving.

New US spec. emissions control Cars are NOT the problem anymore. A 2000 Impala polutes less at idle in your driveway than a 1961 Impala parked in your driveway wiht the engine OFF! Seriously. The Chevy Rep. told us this statistis when the new 2000 Impalas were introduced.

Snif the tail pipe of a new Silverado or Corvette... it's mostly freekin condensation and carbon dioxide these days... no gas smell, no gross soot... clean is the definition of new USA legal cars.

[Flybrian]

Snif the tail pipe of a new Silverado or Corvette... it's mostly freekin condensation and carbon dioxide these days... no gas smell, no gross soot... clean is the definition of new USA legal cars.

[post="33845"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

You stick your head under a car to smell the exhaust? That explains things.

[milleramerican]

You stick your head under a car to smell the exhaust? That explains things.

[post="33872"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Man take it easy on him, I assume you were just kiddin around, but I like panthers presence here at the forum.

[toyoguy]

I can buy a base model 6-speed TSX (IE: no weight adding accessories like navi, cargo net, trunk tray, etc), and with proper driving habits get close to those numbers, yet it's twice as fast and maintenance is a breeze (among a million other advantages).

[post="33631"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Yup, you'll get 45mpg in a TSX
First you need better mpg than the IS250 w/that fwd "sports sedan."

Weight saving in a cargo net, seriously you sound like a typical Honda loving ricer.

Well I'm done humoring myself

[cmattson]

Don't forget to add a wing, a "Type-R" badge and a fart-can; you'd make 300hp while getting 45mpg too! :P Uuugh, 300hp & 45mpg?!? This is starting to sound like a Car and Driver/Motortrend test: "We're going to compare a 10-speed bicycle, a big wheel, a hot wheel, a Prius, and the Corvette" Edited October 26, 2005 by cmattson