mustang84

Reliability Report of Japanese automakers

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Cars.com

Interesting...it says that the new Avalon has "average" reliability, as does the RL and Odyssey. Nissan's not doing so hot either...the Titan, Armada, QX56, and Quest rank among the 48 least-reliable vehicles sold.

While the quality gap between Asian and domestic carmakers is closing for new cars, Champion said as domestic cars age, the gap widens. After five years, domestic cars tend to have twice as many problems as Asian brands, Champion said.


Yeah, maybe for some of recently laid-to-rest models like the Cavalier and Windstar before Detroit began actively pursuing higher quality. Who says that still holds true today? Why is CR always so quick to jump on the domestics without even giving them a chance to prove themselves?
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And why don't they do some real investigative journlism about the COST OF OWNERSHIP difference between domestics and imports. I have seen the owners of "import" brands justify any level of "maintenance." Such as, a $500 timing belt change. I have made this point before: if a person consciously spends $3-5,000 more for the same car, then they are more apt to maintain and care for it better because it is an "investment." Which would you treat better, a Cartier watch or a Timex?
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Yeah, maybe for some of recently laid-to-rest models like the Cavalier and Windstar before Detroit began actively pursuing higher quality. Who says that still holds true today?


So far Detroit has yet to prove itself, and in a lot more models than just the Cavalier and Windstar.

Don't get me wrong, I want to see Ford, GM (well maybe not Chevy), and Dodge really become competative with the Japanese, otherwise they might start charging too much money <_<

Such as, a $500 timing belt change.


Although that 500 timing belt charge probably includes the water pump as well, and possible 1-3 accessory belts, it is under a $100 for the do it yourselfer (or $2-300 if you take it a shop and not the stealership). It is only a once every 100k mile maintenance anyways, most domestics won't last that long anyhow, lol j/k. :lol:
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So far Detroit has yet to prove itself, and in a lot more models than just the Cavalier and Windstar.

Don't get me wrong, I want to see Ford, GM (well maybe not Chevy), and Dodge really become competative with the Japanese, otherwise they might start charging too much money  <_<
Although that 500 timing belt charge probably includes the water pump as well, and possible 1-3 accessory belts, it is under a $100 for the do it yourselfer (or $2-300 if you take it a shop and not the stealership). It is only a once every 100k mile maintenance anyways, most domestics won't last that long anyhow, lol j/k.  :lol:

[post="35439"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


all chevrolet's dont need to replace a timing belt... they are all chains except for the aveo...

and it is supposed to be changed prior to 60k miles... not 100k, well i guess each automanufacture is different.

GM is trying to show their vehicles besides oil and filter changes, are maintance free for 100k miles... with long lasting plantinum tipped spark plugs 100k miles, long lasting sparkplug wires 100k miles, 150k - 5year dexcool antifreez, timing chain that never needs to be replaced, accessory belt made in part with kevlar so it lasts 100k miles.

so you decide the advantages of this? These things are just one way that GM is trying to have the customer save time and money durring the ownership of its car...
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ohh and after 5 years Domestics require more maintance? lets try 8 or 10 years and i bet the domestics still have the same amount of problems as at 5 years, where as the asians I'd say after 8 or more years the asian problems start to all fall together...
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So far Detroit has yet to prove itself, and in a lot more models than just the Cavalier and Windstar.

Don't get me wrong, I want to see Ford, GM (well maybe not Chevy), and Dodge really become competative with the Japanese, otherwise they might start charging too much money  <_<
Although that 500 timing belt charge probably includes the water pump as well, and possible 1-3 accessory belts, it is under a $100 for the do it yourselfer (or $2-300 if you take it a shop and not the stealership). It is only a once every 100k mile maintenance anyways, most domestics won't last that long anyhow, lol j/k.  :lol:

[post="35439"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

My 93 Trans Am has 162,000 miles on the original tranny and motor and it still whips ass over most Asian and european cars :) . It has seen regular oil changes, two tranny fluid changes and the 100,000 mile tune up. Talk to me about my mother in laws Coralla ans he has spent more money maintaning that car then I have.
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Exactly. Alot of Asain cars start to fall to pieces after a few years. They need to studies of cars at a 10 year range.
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My 93 Trans Am has 162,000 miles on the original tranny and motor and it still whips ass over most Asian and european cars :) . It has seen regular oil changes, two tranny fluid changes and the 100,000 mile tune up. Talk to me about my mother in laws Coralla ans he has spent more money maintaning that car then I have.

[post="35750"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Let's not bring up personal cases. Everybody is going to have different experiences and there will be USDM cars that last a lot longer than 100k miles, and JDM cars that are troublesome (that is a Toyota though, don't know about them... <_< ). I could bring up my experience with cars and everybody else could and we wouldn't get anywhere.

all chevrolet's dont need to replace a timing belt... they are all chains except for the aveo...
and it is supposed to be changed prior to 60k miles... not 100k, well i guess each automanufacture is different.


Timing chains are a good thing, a lot of new Honda's (maybe all of them I don't know) come with timing chains. 60k miles is pretty low for a timing belt replace, most Honda's since the mid '90's are on a 105k schedule for timing belt replacement, with the ones before that being 90k I believe. Not a huge deal since most will last well over 100k miles for non-aggressive drivers. Either way, I suppose that is an advantage, although I don't know of any disadvatages to using timing chains (noise?) since I haven't researched them.

GM is trying to show their vehicles besides oil and filter changes, are maintance free for 100k miles... with long lasting plantinum tipped spark plugs 100k miles, long lasting sparkplug wires 100k miles, 150k - 5year dexcool antifreez, timing chain that never needs to be replaced, accessory belt made in part with kevlar so it lasts 100k miles.


Show me a maintenance schedule on a new GM that shows nothing but oil/filter changes for the first 100k miles.
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Let's not bring up personal cases. Everybody is going to have different experiences and there will be USDM cars that last a lot longer than 100k miles, and JDM cars that are troublesome (that is a Toyota though, don't know about them...  <_< ). I could bring up my experience with cars and everybody else could and we wouldn't get anywhere.
Timing chains are a good thing, a lot of new Honda's (maybe all of them I don't know) come with timing chains. 60k miles is pretty low for a timing belt replace, most Honda's since the mid '90's are on a 105k schedule for timing belt replacement, with the ones before that being 90k I believe. Not a huge deal since most will last well over 100k miles for non-aggressive drivers. Either way, I suppose that is an advantage, although I don't know of any disadvatages to using timing chains (noise?) since I haven't researched them.
Show me a maintenance schedule on a new GM that shows nothing but oil/filter changes for the first 100k miles.

[post="35806"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


That is a BIG BULLSHITand typical import talk. I happen to own a Toyota product as well and they are not as bullet proof as eveyone makes them sound, per our RX300 and it has had more then just oil changes <_< Everytime I talk to most import driver they say domestic cars suck because the motors don't last and the trannies go out and how their import can run with 200,000/300,000 miles and are so much more reliable. When I mention my car then they come up with excuses that I must baby my car or I don't drive it like it was meant to be driven. Many of my fellow Trans Am owners in our club have had the same relaibility. It seems to me import drivers can not handle the possibility that the motors and trannis of domestics are better then they want to believe. Edited by prinzSD
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That is a BIG BULLSHITand typical import talk. I happen to own a Toyota product as well and they are not as bullet proof as eveyone makes them sound

[post="35821"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


I personally do not like Toyota at all and I do not believe their reliable either, at least in their newer models. I think you mis-understood my post, the only JDM manufacturer I believe lives up to their reputation is Honda, and most people have their own personal grudges with them anyhow.
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I personally do not like Toyota at all and I do not believe their reliable either, at least in their newer models. I think you mis-understood my post, the only JDM manufacturer I believe lives up to their reputation is Honda, and most people have their own personal grudges with them anyhow.

[post="35862"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Thanks for clearing it up Siegen. And on a side note, when I like something from the imports I will say it but it does not mean I would buy it. I just try to stay a little open minded about things. On a side note my neighbors just traded in their fairly new Accords for two fairly new Mercedes Benz 230s. It will be interesting too see how that works out for them but I think they may have made a mistake. Edited by prinzSD
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Anecdotal information is not very helpful, true. But I am in the "biz" and see customers all the time with ancient vehicles. How about an idiot who drove 42,000 km with no oil change at all on a 1998 Z24? He had no oil in the engine. The water pump cracked, but after replacing the pump, changing the filter, etc. He drove the car (hard) for another 40,000 km before his lease was up. And everyone said the old 2.4 twin cam was a bad engine! On the weekend, the National Post did a Halloween "scare" article in their automotive section. The idiot writer mentioned that nothing is scarier than all those rusty Pontiac 6000s and Buicks Centuries out there. As soon as I read the article I was seething. Why are they rusting and why are they so noticeable? Because THEY ARE STILL ON THE ROAD, idiot. With the salt that Ontario throws on the roads it is amazing that ANY car is on the road after 10 years! We still see many, many Buick Century and Olds Calais, etc. on the road here; certainly a testimony to the cars themselves. Nobody is saying that the Japanese don't build good cars. I believe the biggest area of contention is the COST OF OWNERSHIP. Japanese cars cost more to drive. Dealer maintenance, of which the manufacturer insists during warranty period, is more expensive. INsurance is generally more. And in most cases, a Toyota or Honda costs more to buy.
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Exactly. Alot of Asain cars start to fall to pieces after a few years. They need to studies of cars at a 10 year range.

[post="35800"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


I view toyotas as bic pens, I have owned them I know. Like bic pens Toyotas last quite some time, and are reliable. Once a bic pen is worn out, you don't refill the ink, or tip. You throw it out. Same goes for toyotas, once it starts to have problems you toss it. Even in small accidents I have seen some strange things. If you hit a rock on your way off a icy road you are likely to lose a part of you suspension and frame. They are not repairable, they are disposable. (Ever lift a door off of a corolla and compare it to the weight of a door on a Cavalier? There is quite some difference. The Cavs doors feel like lead.) Edited by Cremazie
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It is only a once every 100k mile maintenance anyways, most domestics won't last that long anyhow, lol j/k.  :lol:

[post="35439"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Before my CTS I only had cars over 100k miles. All domestics, mostly GM <one Ford>.
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<snip>
Show me a maintenance schedule on a new GM that shows nothing but oil/filter changes for the first 100k miles.

[post="35806"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Here ya go. Oil changes are determined by the car's computer unless you continue the standard 3mos/3k miles. Only things listed are tire rotations, air filter inspections/replacements and if you do "heavy duty" driving one trans filter/fluid change.

From owners manual for my 2002 Alero -
Scheduled Maintenance Page 1
Scheduled Maintenance Page 2
Scheduled Maintenance Page 3
Scheduled Maintenance Page 4
Scheduled Maintenance Page 5
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Here ya go.  Oil changes are determined by the car's computer unless you continue the standard 3mos/3k miles.  Only things listed are tire rotations, air filter inspections/replacements and if you do "heavy duty" driving one trans filter/fluid change.

From owners manual for my 2002 Alero -
Scheduled Maintenance Page 1
Scheduled Maintenance Page 2
Scheduled Maintenance Page 3
Scheduled Maintenance Page 4
Scheduled Maintenance Page 5

[post="38368"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


:rotflmao:
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Here ya go.  Oil changes are determined by the car's computer unless you continue the standard 3mos/3k miles.  Only things listed are tire rotations, air filter inspections/replacements and if you do "heavy duty" driving one trans filter/fluid change.

From owners manual for my 2002 Alero -
Scheduled Maintenance Page 1
Scheduled Maintenance Page 2
Scheduled Maintenance Page 3
Scheduled Maintenance Page 4
Scheduled Maintenance Page 5

[post="38368"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Nice job scanning you onwers manual. :lol: Went last week for my 22nd oil change (110,000KM) that is all the maintenance my car had needed in 4.5 years. Decided to buy new plugs and change them myself ( took 30 minutes) even though the manual says change them at 166,000KM I wanted to change them. They still looked okay.
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Nice site, I didn't know Edmunds had that either. Looks like only Engine Oil/Filter, AT, and Tire changes for your Alero. What kind of air filter does that have in it? Or do they just not care if it gets dirty lol? After looking at the Schedule for my Acura Integra (99), I do have to replace spark plugs, air filter and coolant (which I do anyway), but the oil/filter change interval is only every 7,500k miles, as opposed to 3,000k. It is a 90's car however (starting in 94), and can't really be compared to a 2000 car. If I compare a more comparable car like the 04 Acura TSX (mid size sedan), the maintenance schedule looks pretty good. Oil/filter every 5k miles, Air filter every 15k miles, and MTF every 60k miles. Not bad for maintenance, as the air filter really should be replaced even if they don't call for it. Edit: Just checked an even more comparible car, the 02 Accord (in automatic sedan V6 trim), and looks even better yet. Only oil/filter changes every 3,750 miles, with ATF and air filter every 30k miles. Edited by siegen
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