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Tonight's Debate 10/15/2008


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McCain totally overboard on this second question.... "What would you cut?"

I'd use a hatchet and then use a scalpel.

Wow!

This is bad.... he's all over the place! Skizto rabbit on espresso!

Note to McCain: Don't mention that you can remember the last depression.

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McCain is losing so badly. Joe the plumber who makes $250,000 dollars a year!!?!?!? are you f@#$ing kidding me? If you make $250K a year, you have nothing in common with the middle class. I'm glad this fool Joe can't afford to buy another business. Is he providing healthcare for his employees? John McCain please get a clue.

McCain is just ranting and being incoherent. Poor old man. Must be dementia.

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Obama appears to have a poor understanding of international trade.

Why? becuase he want to require other countries to meet certain condition.... pre-conditions if you will.... before we'll trade with them?

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BS, he is all lipservice. His proposals do not back up his ideas. plus the fact that his ideas will stymie further economic growth and thus lower gov't revenues.

you obviously don't know which moment I'm refering to.

When McCain brought up Palin understanding Autism.... Obama say that's great, but if we use a hatchet to cut spending, there won't be funding for autism research.

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Obama makes similar claims as some random guy off the street about the economy and free trade. I have heard all these arguments before and there are reasons they generally are not implemented.

Of course there are..... the CEOs want to get the product from China for cheapest possible regardless of how the product is made or the pollution it creates or the workers it kills.

that's a great reason

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you obviously don't know which moment I'm refering to.

When McCain brought up Palin understanding Autism.... Obama say that's great, but if we use a hatchet to cut spending, there won't be funding for autism research.

and in the long run we will have a stronger economy and fuller coffers for those projects.

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and in the long run we will have a stronger economy and fuller coffers for those projects.

nope, because we'll be deeper in debt.

Again, you can't cut taxes on companies who aren't going to be making money anyway. It doesn't matter if the business tax rate is 15% or 50% if companies keep imploding at the rate they are today.

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ITS PROTECTIONISM

Requiring other countries to maintain environmental and working conditions standards is not protectionism.

In fact... it's just good business... should be part of any request for quote.

"Make me this product with these specifications with these standards"

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nope, because we'll be deeper in debt.

Again, you can't cut taxes on companies who aren't going to be making money anyway. It doesn't matter if the business tax rate is 15% or 50% if companies keep imploding at the rate they are today.

Actually in the business world it IS POSSIBLE to have a profit before tax and a loss afterwords.

But taxing our business at the HIGHEST RATE IN THE WORLD. Clearly is not the answer to a BAD ECONOMY.

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Requiring other countries to maintain enviromental and working conditions standards is not protectionism.

Oh really? "Oh canada... yeah... you arent protecting the..uh... white tailed pink flamingo of antioch... im sorry we wont trade with you"

Its similar to our emission standards and other atuo standards.

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Actually in the business world it IS POSSIBLE to have a profit before tax and a loss afterwords.

But taxing our business at the HIGHEST RATE IN THE WORLD. Clearly is not the answer to a BAD ECONOMY.

on paper.....

after deductions it is much lower....

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ex.bmp2008735678.jpg

Hmm seems fair.

According to CNN, Exxon Mobil once again reported the largest quarterly profit in U.S. history Thursday, posting net income of $11.68 billion on revenue of $138 billion in the second quarter.

That profit works out to $1,485.55 a second.

Buried in the story we also find that "In addition to making hefty profits, Exxon also had a hefty tax bill. Worldwide, the company paid $10.5 billion in income taxes in the second quarter, $9.5 billion in sales taxes, and over $12 billion in what it called 'other taxes.'"

MP: In other words, Exxon Mobil paid $32.361 billion in taxes in the second quarter, which works out to $4,114 in taxes per second. Another way to look at it - Exxon paid almost $3 in taxes ($32.361 billion) for every $1 in profits ($11.68 billion), see chart above.

that is 25% tax on their REVENUES. Not necessarily profit, but REVENUES.

Edited by Teh Ricer Civic!
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Uh huh. So state taxes are irrelevant right?

When discussing Federal policies? Yeah, pretty much. Companies can jump from state to state for more favorable business climates far more easily than they can jump nation to nation.

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Hmmm Obama wants us to help those single mothers who decided not to have an abortion. why should >>I<< have to pay because some idiots decided to screw around? Why should >>I<< have to subsidize their abortion for that matter?

Its YOUR fault YOU deal with it... unless of course said person was raped... that's a different story.

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I just love hearing a lot of conservative arguments in black and white...they tend to get comincal real quickly. To paraphrase:

WORLD IS IN BLACK AND WHITE...NO GRAY. X IS BAD BAD BAD TERRIBLE AWFUL MUST STAMP OUT!!!!! well, except in case Y, because that would be bad if we did that, but...OTHERWISE X IS BAD BAD BAD MUST KILL OUT!! but then case Z comes around, so we recognize that, but OTHER THAN Y AND Z, X IS BAD BAD BAD!!!!!!!!

It's like there's this cleaving to a false reality where no gray exists on any issue anytime...instead of admitting ambiguity can exist, we get these convoluted arguments of NO THIS (except in this situation or that situation).

It's just so funny...

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Hmmm Obama wants us to help those single mothers who decided not to have an abortion. why should >>I<< have to pay because some idiots decided to screw around? Why should >>I<< have to subsidize their abortion for that matter?

Its YOUR fault YOU deal with it... unless of course said person was raped... that's a different story.

Well they better hurry up and die and reduce the surplus population.

scrooge.jpg

Seriously, could get any more scrooge like?

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At no point have we seen a grace note from McCain. When dealing with the negativism of the campaign, it would not have killed him to seem genuinely horrified at calls for violence rather than offended that anyone dare criticize him or some of his supporters. Or to wish Obama well. It's this lack of generosity of spirit that he lacks and that people want in a president. Obama still manages to say when he agrees with or admires McCain. In this whole dynamic, Obama seems more secure, more self-controlled, more mature. He is the Alpha Male on this stage, and McCain the bristling teen - aged 72. No wonder women seem to be so disproportionately pro-Obama.

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Well they better hurry up and die and reduce the surplus population.

scrooge.jpg

Seriously, could get any more scrooge like?

Okay. If i went out, drank alcohol every day, got cirrhosis of the liver... would YOU pay for my meds? would YOU pay for my liver transplant?

This ENCOURAGES behavior which many consider undesirable, and judging my Obama's tone he finds it unfavorable too.

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At no point have we seen a grace note from McCain. When dealing with the negativism of the campaign, it would not have killed him to seem genuinely horrified at calls for violence rather than offended that anyone dare criticize him or some of his supporters. Or to wish Obama well. It's this lack of generosity of spirit that he lacks and that people want in a president. Obama still manages to say when he agrees with or admires McCain. In this whole dynamic, Obama seems more secure, more self-controlled, more mature. He is the Alpha Male on this stage, and McCain the bristling teen - aged 72. No wonder women seem to be so disproportionately pro-Obama.

Women as a % tend to be more liberal. Therefore they would identify with obama even if he was not as eloquent.

Also why men tend to favor McCain.

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Okay. If i went out, drank alcohol every day, got cirrhosis of the liver... would YOU pay for my meds? would YOU pay for my liver transplant?

This ENCOURAGES behavior which many consider undesirable, and judging my Obama's tone he finds it unfavorable too.

you think that if there is a support system for adoption or single mothers is put in place, chicks are going to be much more willing to put out? 75% of C&G is going to be pretty happy if Obama gets in office then....

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you think that if there is a support system for adoption or single mothers is put in place, chick are going to be much more willing to put out? 75% of C&G is going to be pretty happy if Obama gets in office then....

Free tang!!!!

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you think that if there is a support system for adoption or single mothers is put in place, chick are going to be much more willing to put out? 75% of C&G is going to be pretty happy if Obama gets in office then....

Probably not, but symbolically it is a poor message to send.

"You really shouldn't do this, but if you do then its okay, the people of america will take care of you"

Edited by Teh Ricer Civic!
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One tax change I'd like to see (no one has brought it up) is I think I should be able claim my dog as a dependent....breeders can claim their kids as dependents, why not those of us with furry four-legged 'children' ? :)

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McCain was better than in the two previous debates. That said, Obama still came across as more intelligent and more level headed.

Agreed.

I wanted McCain to do well. I wanted this to be a more exciting fight.

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Eloquence does not necessarily make a good leader.

Hitler was quite eloquent you know.

... although hitler did manage to lead his relatively small country to dominate an entire continent... i guess that is good leadership...

I dont know where i am going for this. But Obama did very little to sway me to vote for him.

Edited by Teh Ricer Civic!
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McCain may just have sealed his loss with that crotchety display.

On one forum, someone described his constant blinking as 'butterfly eyes'...the lighting must have been really bothering his eyes. All the smirking was annoying...

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Eloquence does not necessarily make a good leader.

Hitler was quite eloquent you know.

... although hitler did manage to lead his relatively small country to dominate an entire continent... i guess that is good leadership...

I dont know where i am going for this. But Obama did very little to sway me to vote for him.

you weren't going to vote for him ever....... wasn't is you who this morning was interested in having Chuck Norris run just because he's a Republican?

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McCain lacks the bearing, stature and presence of a statesman. Qualities (among others) Barack Obama possesses in abundance.

McCain seems schizophrenic and the hot monkey-p*ss stink of fear (fear of seeing his dream evaporate) surrounds him.

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McCain came out strong, but overall he ended in a condescending and irritated tone. Obama had a few stingers, especially the one relating to the Ayers accusations. Obama nailed the education topic; i was glad to hear that topic covered. I was also glad to hear the issue of free trade brought up.

Oh, and the Joe the plumber thing got very old, very fast. I'm not even convinced that Joe the plumber is a real plumber after Fox totally cherry-picked the sound bytes from that segment, yet McCain kept referencing the guy. It felt forced, like McCain was attempting to reconnect with the American public through yet again another cheeky "Joe Six-pack" type character.

The whole Joe the plumber thing was nothing but a gimmick, IMO.

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McCain lacks the bearing, stature and presence of a statesman. Qualities (among others) Barack Obama possesses in abundance.

McCain seems schizophrenic and the hot monkey-p*ss stink of fear (fear of seeing his dream evaporate) surrounds him.

+1. Very well put.

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That was the election there folks. Good night and good luck.

CNN poll from the tee-vee: Obama 58, McCain 31.

CBS undecideds: Obama 53, McCain 22.

MSNBC: Obama 84, McCain 15 - this one seems a bit out of wack

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Fox News had Obama at 85% about 15 minutes after the debate was over. Curiously, that poll is now missing.

On the CNN undecided panel, 15 thought Obama won, 10 thought McCain won, and 1 didn't vote.

Edited by mustang84
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That was the election there folks. Good night and good luck.

CNN poll from the tee-vee: Obama 58, McCain 31.

CBS undecideds: Obama 53, McCain 22.

MSNBC: Obama 84, McCain 15 - this one seems a bit out of wack

Another poll that was interesting...something about 'likeability' on CNN..a poll of viewers of the debate....Obama was like 75% but McCain was 22%..

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I actually thought this debate was more of a draw. I watched on CNN, and overall, undecided women in OH were overwhelmingly more in favor of Obama's stances on issues, though there were several times they liked what McCain said. OH undecided men didn't seem to show much of an overall preference for either candidate, but if I had to pick one, I'd say they were more in tune with McCain, especially regarding Sarah Palin. Duh, go figure.

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Wurzelbacher conceded today that he is not in danger of being hit with the higher tax rate. He acknowledged that he wants to buy a plumbing company for $250,00o to $280,000. That wouldn't be how much much profit he would make from the firm.

JoeThePlumber.jpg

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ugh... Obama is dull.....

All he needs is a chalkboard and an overhead projector and I'm back in a boring Economics 101 class....

Democrats excell at providing candidates that understand the issues but don't have a clue how to get elected.

Republicans excell at providing candidates that understand getting elected but don't have a clue how to run the country.

Take your pick...

Chris

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McCain is going to tell us how Palin would be a better president than Biden.

:deathwatch:

...and then at some later time, he'll tell us how he's going to be responsible and reduce the budget shortfalls and reduce the size of government. Just like reagan, Bush Sr. and Bush Jr.....

Chris

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"We're seeing Iraqis united as Iraqis." Yes, McCain just said that. Yes: the next president could be even more delusional about Iraq than the current one.

Which when you have sons approaching draft age settles really good with me as a voter.

This just shows how little he learns from his mistakes.

Chris

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