Moraine, OH Closing???

[thecarguy]

My post was taken away with the demise of the Outlook thread. Anyway, I am hearing that GM is seriously considering the possible closer of Moraine, OH. This would be the end of the Trailblazer and Envoy as we know them. In fact, the next generation Trailblazer might in fact be a crossover after 2008. Something to think about. :AH-HA_wink:

[Hudson]

My post was taken away with the demise of the Outlook thread. Anyway, I am hearing that GM is seriously considering the possible closer of Moraine, OH. This would be the end of the Trailblazer and Envoy as we know them. In fact, the next generation Trailblazer might in fact be a crossover after 2008. Something to think about.  :AH-HA_wink:

Currently there is a GMT360-based replacement for the Trailblazer and Envoy. I believe this makes Moraine safe through 2010 or 2012 at the earliest.

[thecarguy]

Hudson,

Product plans are often fluid, at least at GM. :AH-HA_wink:

[ehaase]

My post was taken away with the demise of the Outlook thread. Anyway, I am hearing that GM is seriously considering the possible closer of Moraine, OH. This would be the end of the Trailblazer and Envoy as we know them. In fact, the next generation Trailblazer might in fact be a crossover after 2008. Something to think about.  :AH-HA_wink:

You're right.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic.../602180322/1148

Most ominous:

"About 4,150 workers are employed at the plant, which produces the Buick Rainier, GMC Envoy, Chevrolet Trailblazer, Saab 9-7X and Isuzu Ascender.

"Right now, there is no product assigned to the plant beyond its current product," GM spokesman Dan Flores said.

If nothing changes, production of those vehicles at the plant would end in 2008, Flores said"

[Ghost Dog]

Eminent Domain the plant. Force GM to buy back the tooling at full value. Use the revenue from selling GM it's tooling back as incentives for new Business.

Moraine is a Global Manufacturing System plant. With a c-Flex Bodyshop. If Gm wants to close it, the local Government should just slap eminent Domain on it.

[91z4me]

Eminent Domain the plant. Force GM to buy back the tooling at full value. Use the revenue from selling GM it's tooling back as incentives for new Business.

Moraine is a Global Manufacturing System plant. With a c-Flex Bodyshop. If Gm wants to close it, the local Government should just slap eminent Domain on it.

If it has C-flex I would say it is safe. Perhaps after the refreshed 360s go it will get another product, Lambda or sub theta but if GM upgraded it to C-flex my money says its safe.

[thecarguy]

I wouldn't bet on Moraine staying open. GM needs to close plants and reduce its overhead cost structure. I am affraid that GM's plant closure announcement in Late November was just the first pass. The cuts announced at that time were not deep enough. Mid-size body-on-frame SUVs will be killed with the introduction of Lambda crossovers. If someone needs a body-on-frame they will need to go to the Tahoe or Yukon.

[Chazman]

Eminent Domain the plant. Force GM to buy back the tooling at full value. Use the revenue from selling GM it's tooling back as incentives for new Business.

Moraine is a Global Manufacturing System plant. With a c-Flex Bodyshop. If Gm wants to close it, the local Government should just slap eminent Domain on it.

Huh? That's not how eminent domain works Comrade Lenin.

[Ghost Dog]

Huh? That's not how eminent domain works Comrade Lenin.

lol

Anyway. last year when that crap was going on in New England, I read a little about Eminent Domain. And I think it can be applied in this manner. At the least you can Tie the Tooling up in court for years.

[Chazman]

lol 

Anyway. last year when that crap was going on in New England, I read a little about Eminent Domain. And I think it can be applied in this manner. At the least you can Tie the Tooling up in court for years.

Eminent domain is a very controversial subject. It has..and continues to be... abused by many local governments. I'm not familiar with Ohio law on this subject, but I would imagine a company as large as GM could literally bankrupt a town like Moraine with court costs, if pushed to that. And Moraine would deserve it under such circumstances.

Remember, if a local government has the power to seize someones plant...they can just as easily seize YOUR house if they ever got the wild hair up theit butt to take it. This is still America, you know. Private poperty rights should be respected,

[thecarguy]

I guess it gets back to whether or not you want to see GM survive. If you want to see them fail, we should make certain that they are not able to close any plants and not allow them to reduce their overhead cost structure.

GM has lost marketshare and now needs to become smaller as a company, if they have any hope of surviving long-term. This is simple business 101 outside of the auto industry. Why should these simple rules somehow not apply to the American auto industry.

I believe that the new Lambda crossovers are going to be very successful, but it will have a significant impact on the traditional Trailblazer/Envoy. It will be diffucult to justify the existence of these vehicles and Moraine, OH in the next 12 to 24 months.

[Hudson]

Anyway. last year when that crap was going on in New England, I read a little about Eminent Domain. And I think it can be applied in this manner. At the least you can Tie the Tooling up in court for years.

The owner of the property must be compensated. So if the government were to take over the plant, they would have to pay GM...not extract money from GM.

[Hudson]

Most ominous:

"About 4,150 workers are employed at the plant, which produces the Buick Rainier, GMC Envoy, Chevrolet Trailblazer, Saab 9-7X and Isuzu Ascender.

"Right now, there is no product assigned to the plant beyond its current product," GM spokesman Dan Flores said.

If nothing changes, production of those vehicles at the plant would end in 2008, Flores said"

This keeps the union on their toes. If GM were to say "we've got a product ready to replace the GMT360," what position would that leave GM when the 2007 negotiations started?

[Ghost Dog]

The owner of the property must be compensated. So if the government were to take over the plant, they would have to pay GM...not extract money from GM.

ok so eminent domain it. sell it to Hyundai let them badge the trucks as kia and hyundai. give GM 5 cents on the dollar.

IF GM is going to offshore production, the corporation ceases to be of any worth to America.

Eventually they will be disolved to cover thier pensions. And there is no way in heck the Government lets them get off the hook for them either.

[haypops]

1. eminent domain is for real estate, not the contents of the property.

2. Historically eminent domain has overpaid for property not 5 cents on the dollar but just the opposite.

[thecarguy]

Hudson,

You have a good point, however I still believe that when GM comes out with the Lambda crossovers it will make it difficult to maintain any reasonable levels of capacity utilization in Moraine. This issue is still the subject of debate. Time will tell with the Lambda intros.

[thecarguy]

Ghost Dog,

GM isn't going off shore. Going to China isn't the solution, particularly when you have excess capacity in North America. Even with the announced closures, GM still has more than enough capacity to satisfy current levels of demand. Logistically and politically it just would not make sense for GM to build in China and ship vehicles half way around the world. We're not talking about shirts and shoes here. GM needs more automation and flexibility within their assembly facilities. Investments will continue to be made in North America by both GM and Ford, we've already seen this with Delta Twp., Pontiac Truck, Fort Wayne, IN, Chicago, IL, Belvedere, IL, Oakville, ON, etc. etc. Unfortunately, these companies will require far fewer workers in the future, both in the blue collar and white collar ranks. Fewer people are needed to produce one car today than were needed 40 years ago, this is just a function of productivity resulting from greater levels of automation and technological advancements.

[Hudson]

ok so eminent domain it. sell it to Hyundai let them badge the trucks as kia and hyundai. give GM 5 cents on the dollar.

Even if your theory were correct (which it's not), Hyundai wouldn't take it. The union would go with it...and Hyundai's not about to let the union into one of its plants. It'll open one or two more plants in the next 5-10 years, all in the South, and all non-union.

[RJB]

The rumor is ALL development of the Line 6 is done as of 07. Bye bye Traiblazer, Envoy, 9-7x, and Rainier.

[thecarguy]

RJB,

Could you go into a little more detail?

[ehaase]

Evok said on another website that his understanding is that there will be a next generation TrailBlazer (same platform, new sheetmetal and interior), assuring the future of the Ohio plant.

[Hudson]

Evok said on another website that his understanding is that there will be a next generation TrailBlazer (same platform, new sheetmetal and interior), assuring the future of the Ohio plant.

I think I posted something similar to that on this thread.

[ehaase]

I think I posted something similar to that on this thread.

With two experts saying the same thing, hopefully it will put an end to all of the fretting.