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Guest Josh

Thank You Lori Queen

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Guest Josh

I would just like to kindly thank you Miss Queen for saying what has needed to be said for years. Consumer Reports is nothing but a criminal "magazine" with obvious intentions in mind.

The guts it took for you to stand up and say what was on your mind, as well as many within the company is nothing short of spectacular. I commend you for your admiration and dedication to the company.

It's about time people within GM grow a back bone and stand up for what they believe in. It's just a shame it was retracted by the powers that be.

What's Lori's e-mail address, I say we all personally thank her for expressing her true feelings on the matter.

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and being praised for such actions is also what needs to follow...

if things like that go unnoticed they sometimes think perhaps it was unwarented... but this was definatly a good thing and i'd like to see more things in the future to defend the General and to finnally start making a difference in the world...

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Now, supposedly Ric W called CR and apologzied. Obviously, GM can't rattle their cage, or they will write even worse articles.  Looks like CR won after all.

it doesnt matter about consumer reports its perception... and truth... what lori said is all true regaurding how they dont inform the subscriber as to how they got their result... as to why which vehicles have half filled dots red or black dots... they dont inform the consumer as far as how many vehicles were used to make the reliablity factor.

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While one can appreciate Ms. Queen's opinion of CR, GM should not try to antagonize CR in any way. A bad review by CR can be a kiss of death for a struggling company like GM. I think Rick did the right thing by apologizing to CR. Btw, Consumer Reports subscription only survey is biased as many people have stated. Any statistician would tell you that a random survey is far more accurate. If CR was in the business of predicting who the next president is going to be, everybody would laugh at them.

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But wait a minute.....if CR was truly unbiased (which we all know they are not!) then it wouldn't matter if GM pissed them off or not. Facts are facts, right?

NOT!

Seems to me that with the crap CR already publishes things couldn't get any worse for GM, so you go, girl!

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Is it just me or is it sad that the only one at GM with the balls to stand up to CR is Lori Queen?

No it is just bad taste - considering GM used to court CR management to informally critique their product and share their opinions and lessons learned. I know I was there and have seen the evidence first hand.

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But wait a minute.....if CR was truly unbiased (which we all know they are not!) then it wouldn't matter if GM pissed them off or not.  Facts are facts, right?

  NOT!

Seems to me that with the crap CR already publishes things couldn't get any worse for GM, so you go, girl!

Yes, very true. Facts are facts. Like I said I wish it was possible to do a random survey of automobile owners to find out the true picture of automobile dependibility. But the fact remains that Consumer Reports has 6 million paid subscribers and countless more who either occasionally buys them from bookstores or read them. That is a pretty large group of people who considers Consumer Reports as the prophet of product expertise. If Consumer Reports give GM a bad review these 6+ million people could tell their friends and relatives about the "shoddy quality" of domestic cars. I don't think GM needs that kind of publicity right now. This could very well make a lot of people percieve ( I think wrongly) GM managment as a bunch of whiners.

Edited by andy82471

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But wait a minute.....if CR was truly unbiased (which we all know they are not!) then it wouldn't matter if GM pissed them off or not.  Facts are facts, right?

  NOT!

Seems to me that with the crap CR already publishes things couldn't get any worse for GM, so you go, girl!

Consumer Reports is by no means Bias... their subscribers are... and their subscribers are the only ones that get sent surveys...

if i was completely satisfied with my vehicle... say vehicle X from manufacture A... and Consumer told me, that every vehicle from manufacture A falls apart as soon as you take delivery, would i continue to endorse this company? no i'd just take my own experiance as the truth.

Does anyone know how JD Powers do their survey. I have no idea.

almost everyone when they purchase a new vheicle gets sent a survey from JD Powers... about 3 months after purchasing... a lot of our customers tell me when they receive the JD surveys... ohh also JD reports how many vehicles were used to show reliablity... posted right on our HD silverados it says they are the most dependable heavy duty trucks and over 50k surveys (from silverado HD owners) were used to suggest that claim.

Edited by Newbiewar

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but, then comes rick wagoner, issuing an apology to CR. that queens comments do not reflect those of GM. WHAT A WUSSY!

look, you are never going to win over those people. you may as well tell it like it is. hit 'em between the eyes with the truth and take the battle to the people.

this whole episode shows how weak little ricky really is. him and GM's collective tails between their legs.

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Consumer Reports is by no means Bias... their subscribers are... and their subscribers are the only ones that get sent surveys...

But if CR is willing to use data they know is biased (which I believe to be a safe assumption), then its fair say that they are biased as well

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But if CR is willing to use data they know is biased (which I believe to be a safe assumption), then its fair say that they are biased as well

they know their results are biased because they do not reflect the market share...

their subscribers are people like my dad who will never consider an american made vehicle. although he bitches and complains because toyota doesnt make a full size truck so he uses a V10 F350... so far no problems... i dont think... but i'm sure he remembers every problem very vividly where as he forgot many of the problems on the toyotas he owns...

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Now, supposedly Ric W called CR and apologzied. Obviously, GM can't rattle their cage, or they will write even worse articles.  Looks like CR won after all.

IMHO, CR only has GM by the balls because GM allows them to.

GM should SERIOUSLY refute their findings with investigations, facts and major media.

I applaud Lori Queen as loudly as the next pissed off GM fan, but fact is, she probably only made things worse. I bet anything CR writes about GM this year will be overtly negative (Much like Dan Neil since he took a slap on the hand)

It's blatantly obvious what agenda C.R. and people like Dan Neil have. UNFORTUNATELY, that agenda is shared by A LOT of the media. It's time GM fights for itself instead of being the Politically correct, POLITE, fair competitor that it is... You can't fight fair in a boxing match if the competition is beating you about the head with a wooden plank. It just doesn't work and GM is losing/WILL lose.

TOO BAD they don't do something about it... And I don't mean "Build product to convince people otherwise" These are ADMITTED and BLATANT GM/Detroit haters, they enjoy seeing GM and Detroit bleed if for nothing else than to prove their own superioroty.

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No it is just bad taste - considering GM used to court CR management to informally critique their product and share their opinions and lessons learned.  I know I was there and have seen the evidence first hand.

And that resulted in... ... ...WHAT advantage exactly?????

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Guest YellowJacket894

In reading this, I have come to something of a realization here...and I realized that, maybe, Toyota is on its way to becoming a monopoly. And if not a true monopoly, it is certainly something like it.

Okay, if my memory serves me well, a monopoly is a certain company who has a hold, or is getting a hold, on a certain market of goods or services, and is on their way and in progress of making agreements and such to eliminate the competition. In the U.S.A., a monopoly is illegal and any kind of monopoly will be terminated and shut down or divided, as in with AT&T in the past.

Now, of course, certain monopolies are legal in the United States, but they only be restricted in a small, local area, such as your local cable or telephone provider. But this requires extra explaination that doesn't much support what I'm thinking.

Now, although Toyota is not forcing GM or any other car company to shut down and let them dominate the whole automotive market, which is illegal, they have, somehow, reached an agreement with the press through bribes and so forth to make the image on the American Domestic automakers negative with serious consequences.

It appears to be a loophole in the monopoly law since there is the freedom of press in this country and the gov't. cannot define what the press can say and cannot say or, and to some extent, do.

It's just a theroy, and probably just cockandbull with plenty of holes to look through, but it's something that I just considered. And, if Toyota gets too large, they'll go the way of AT&T and get put right back down on the shelf.

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In reading this, I have come to something of a realization here...and I realized that, maybe, Toyota is on its way to becoming a monopoly. And if not a true monopoly, it is certainly something like it.

Okay, if my memory serves me well, a monopoly is a certain company who has a hold, or is getting a hold, on a certain market of goods or services, and is on their way and in progress of making agreements and such to eliminate the competition. In the U.S.A., a monopoly is illegal and any kind of monopoly will be terminated and shut down or divided, as in with AT&T in the past.

Now, of course, certain monopolies are legal in the United States, but they only be restricted in a small, local area, such as your local cable or telephone provider. But this requires extra explaination that doesn't much support what I'm thinking.

Now, although Toyota is not forcing GM or any other car company to shut down and let them dominate the whole automotive market, which is illegal, they have, somehow, reached an agreement with the press through bribes and so forth to make the image on the American Domestic automakers negative with serious consequences.

It appears to be a loophole in the monopoly law since there is the freedom of press in this country and the gov't. cannot define what the press can say and cannot say or, and to some extent, do.

It's just a theroy, and probably just cockandbull with plenty of holes to look through, but it's something that I just considered. And, if Toyota gets too large, they'll go the way of AT&T and get put right back down on the shelf.

in America we love to build something up and sensationize it (GM, Britney Spears) and then tear it all apart with rampant fervor (GM, Britney Spears- although SHE deserves it). Then, if we have some pity left after they hit rock bottom, it makes for a great feel good back from the ashes again sort of story. We want to build things up/knock em down into complete failure and then provide the mercy and let them breathe again.

The press is simply going to keep the pressure on until something breaks at GM. I don't think bankruptcy alone will be enough of a story for them. They will want bankruptcy and a major destruction of American lives and GM as a viable company. Then, once they succeed in tearing GM to shred and ruining millions of lives, GM will consist as a cutesy boutique car maker and we'll all be driving Geelys, Kias, and whatver else the folks in china, Korea, Malaysia, and India can conjure up.

Since GM is being destroyed, toyota is being built up. In fairness, their product quality is quite good and it is fair to praise Toyota for that. However, the press' attention to all things Toyota has gone beyond absurd (not even Honda gets 20% the favorable press of Toyota anymore) and has become a self prophecizing deal......a 'mania' if you will. The spread is not that huge to warrant the extreme glorification.

But, I do think there will come a day where public opinion may turn and things could unravel for them. An unforseen recall, a massive shift in global trade and currency issues, or an uprising of 'patriotism', all those things could turn Toyos fortunes on a dime. But Toyota is smart, they want to get so big and so engrained to the point where thye do indeed monopolize people's minds. They want to grow to the point that everyone just gives in to them being so huge and established....like tide detergent, or Coca Cola.......so that people never even think of them as what they really are...a Japanese company waging ecnomic and cultural warfare on us. Now if we allow it to happen, then we become part of their culture and such. I guess it depends what everyone wants.

What bothers me is that the leadership at Ford and Gm seem utterly clueless on how to get ballsy and say 'enough is enough'. Or they are simply too hamstrung by their own size and past.....labor contracts, pensions, organizational structure. Maybe they have to be destroyed to be able to even function in the future.

Part of the thing we all forget is that Gm and ford are losing market share all the time, but you have to remember, the amount of brands and models sold by other makes has increased exponentially in 20 years and the big three have reduced brands and models significantly. There is a far less percentage of choice of products with an American brand on it than before and it keeps declining with each new import model introduced. So the war exists not only in the press but in sheer marketing angles.....the imports increase products and domestics decrease.

People want new. The domestics don't produce 'new' as often as they need to anymore. That's as much or more the reasons for their faliure than anything else. And that's management's fault....even with the unreasonable labor contracts.

Case in point.....if Buick had 4 all new models coming out this year instead of just lucerne for like 2 years...well DUH which is gonna get more positive press?

Look at Toyota.......their entire Lexus car lineup is new within the last 12-18 months it seems.....and the Camry, Prius, RAV, Avalon, Tundra, and other hybrids all new within the same time period.

If GM is not ready to go to war on that kind of product offensive, than they should shut down the doors and give up being a volume manufacturer.

Edited by regfootball

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In reading this, I have come to something of a realization here...and I realized that, maybe, Toyota is on its way to becoming a monopoly. And if not a true monopoly, it is certainly something like it.

Okay, if my memory serves me well, a monopoly is a certain company who has a hold, or is getting a hold, on a certain market of goods or services, and is on their way and in progress of making agreements and such to eliminate the competition. In the U.S.A., a monopoly is illegal and any kind of monopoly will be terminated and shut down or divided, as in with AT&T in the past.

Now, of course, certain monopolies are legal in the United States, but they only be restricted in a small, local area, such as your local cable or telephone provider. But this requires extra explaination that doesn't much support what I'm thinking.

Now, although Toyota is not forcing GM or any other car company to shut down and let them dominate the whole automotive market, which is illegal, they have, somehow, reached an agreement with the press through bribes and so forth to make the image on the American Domestic automakers negative with serious consequences.

It appears to be a loophole in the monopoly law since there is the freedom of press in this country and the gov't. cannot define what the press can say and cannot say or, and to some extent, do.

It's just a theroy, and probably just cockandbull with plenty of holes to look through, but it's something that I just considered. And, if Toyota gets too large, they'll go the way of AT&T and get put right back down on the shelf.

Okay, first, I could definately see this.

Secondly, our government will never take Toyota down because they are NOT an american company and simply put, Japan has bought so much of our currency that they own us anyway.

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in America we love to build something up and sensationize it (GM, Britney Spears) and then tear it all apart with rampant fervor (GM, Britney Spears- although SHE deserves it).  Then, if we have some pity left after they hit rock bottom, it makes for a great feel good back from the ashes again sort of story.  We want to build things up/knock em down into complete failure and then provide the mercy and let them breathe again.

The press is simply going to keep the pressure on until something breaks at GM.  I don't think bankruptcy alone will be enough of a story for them.  They will want bankruptcy and a major destruction of American lives and GM as a viable company.  Then, once they succeed in tearing GM to shred and ruining millions of lives, GM will consist as a cutesy boutique car maker and we'll all be driving Geelys, Kias, and whatver else the folks in china, Korea, Malaysia, and India can conjure up.

Since GM is being destroyed, toyota is being built up.  In fairness, their product quality is quite good and it is fair to praise Toyota for that.  However, the press' attention to all things Toyota has gone beyond absurd (not even Honda gets 20% the favorable press of Toyota anymore) and has become a self prophecizing deal......a 'mania' if you will.  The spread is not that huge to warrant the extreme glorification.

But, I do think there will come a day where public opinion may turn and things could unravel for them.  An unforseen recall, a massive shift in global trade and currency issues, or an uprising of 'patriotism', all those things could turn Toyos fortunes on a dime.  But Toyota is smart, they want to get so big and so engrained to the point where thye do indeed monopolize people's minds.  They want to grow to the point that everyone just gives in to them being so huge and established....like tide detergent, or Coca Cola.......so that people never even think of them as what they really are...a Japanese company waging ecnomic and cultural warfare on us.  Now if we allow it to happen, then we become part of their culture and such.  I guess it depends what everyone wants.

What bothers me is that the leadership at Ford and Gm seem utterly clueless on how to get ballsy and say 'enough is enough'.  Or they are simply too hamstrung by their own size and past.....labor contracts, pensions, organizational structure.  Maybe they have to be destroyed to be able to even function in the future.

Part of the thing we all forget is that Gm and ford are losing market share all the time, but you have to remember, the amount of brands and models sold by other makes has increased exponentially in 20 years and the big three have reduced brands and models significantly.  There is a far less percentage of choice of products with an American brand on it than before and it keeps declining with each new import model introduced.  So the war exists not only in the press but in sheer marketing angles.....the imports increase products and domestics decrease.

People want new.  The domestics don't produce 'new' as often as they need to anymore.  That's as much or more the reasons for their faliure than anything else.  And that's management's fault....even with the unreasonable labor contracts.

Case in point.....if Buick had 4 all new models coming out this year instead of just lucerne for like 2 years...well DUH which is gonna get more positive press?

Look at Toyota.......their entire Lexus car lineup is new within the last 12-18 months it seems.....and the Camry, Prius, RAV, Avalon, Tundra, and other hybrids all new within the same time period. 

If GM is not ready to go to war on that kind of product offensive, than they should shut down the doors and give up being a volume manufacturer.

EXCELLENT POST!!!!!!!

Of course, one could argue that at one time GM essentially did the exact same thing. (Something they should be doing again as we speak)

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in America we love to build something up and sensationize it (GM, Britney Spears) and then tear it all apart with rampant fervor (GM, Britney Spears- although SHE deserves it).  Then, if we have some pity left after they hit rock bottom, it makes for a great feel good back from the ashes again sort of story.  We want to build things up/knock em down into complete failure and then provide the mercy and let them breathe again.

The press is simply going to keep the pressure on until something breaks at GM.  I don't think bankruptcy alone will be enough of a story for them.  They will want bankruptcy and a major destruction of American lives and GM as a viable company.  Then, once they succeed in tearing GM to shred and ruining millions of lives, GM will consist as a cutesy boutique car maker and we'll all be driving Geelys, Kias, and whatver else the folks in china, Korea, Malaysia, and India can conjure up.

Since GM is being destroyed, toyota is being built up.  In fairness, their product quality is quite good and it is fair to praise Toyota for that.  However, the press' attention to all things Toyota has gone beyond absurd (not even Honda gets 20% the favorable press of Toyota anymore) and has become a self prophecizing deal......a 'mania' if you will.  The spread is not that huge to warrant the extreme glorification.

But, I do think there will come a day where public opinion may turn and things could unravel for them.  An unforseen recall, a massive shift in global trade and currency issues, or an uprising of 'patriotism', all those things could turn Toyos fortunes on a dime.  But Toyota is smart, they want to get so big and so engrained to the point where thye do indeed monopolize people's minds.  They want to grow to the point that everyone just gives in to them being so huge and established....like tide detergent, or Coca Cola.......so that people never even think of them as what they really are...a Japanese company waging ecnomic and cultural warfare on us.  Now if we allow it to happen, then we become part of their culture and such.  I guess it depends what everyone wants.

What bothers me is that the leadership at Ford and Gm seem utterly clueless on how to get ballsy and say 'enough is enough'.  Or they are simply too hamstrung by their own size and past.....labor contracts, pensions, organizational structure.  Maybe they have to be destroyed to be able to even function in the future.

Part of the thing we all forget is that Gm and ford are losing market share all the time, but you have to remember, the amount of brands and models sold by other makes has increased exponentially in 20 years and the big three have reduced brands and models significantly.  There is a far less percentage of choice of products with an American brand on it than before and it keeps declining with each new import model introduced.  So the war exists not only in the press but in sheer marketing angles.....the imports increase products and domestics decrease.

People want new.  The domestics don't produce 'new' as often as they need to anymore.  That's as much or more the reasons for their faliure than anything else.  And that's management's fault....even with the unreasonable labor contracts.

Case in point.....if Buick had 4 all new models coming out this year instead of just lucerne for like 2 years...well DUH which is gonna get more positive press?

Look at Toyota.......their entire Lexus car lineup is new within the last 12-18 months it seems.....and the Camry, Prius, RAV, Avalon, Tundra, and other hybrids all new within the same time period. 

If GM is not ready to go to war on that kind of product offensive, than they should shut down the doors and give up being a volume manufacturer.

Very true....

Lori shouldn't have to say that she is sorry....because I know quite a few at GM feel the same way...

I don't think GM will realize that you can't please everyone...so make sure you take care of those that you can....

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