1975 Full-Size Olds Engine Oddity

[NeonLX]

I was paging through the 1975 Olds brochure and read about engine options for the full-sized cars. What grabbed my interest was that the 88 showed a 400 V8 with >>2V<< carb as an option (along with the 455 4V) of course. For the 98, the 455 V8 was standard, while a 400 with a >>4V<< carb was an option.

I think there was a thread sometime back about the 400 V8 option for the '75 Olds was a Pontiac mill...but I was surprised to see that the 88 version had a 2V carb, while the 98 version had a 4V. Of course, it could be a typo in the brochure (though it was repeated twice, once under the 88 info, and then again under the 88 Royale info).

I am a geek.

Edited December 15, 2012 by NeonLX

[David]

Your not a geek and your not wrong. My dad always complained about the fact that our 88 had the 400 with a 2v carb and the 98 that we also owned had the same 400 but with the 4v carb. He eventually went out and bought an after market carb for the 88 as the 4v version had better gas mileage than the 2v version.

[NeonLX]

Good ol' Quadrajet!

...and it was a Pontiac 400, correct?

[David]

Good ol' Quadrajet!

...and it was a Pontiac 400, correct?

Yes from my recollection it was.

Quadrajet Rocked Course with gas being around 65 cents a gallon most people did not complain, but my dad being the spend thrift person he was always wanted maximum performance with maximum mileage.

I remember when the 88 became mine later on in Highschool I put a hi performance Holley carb on it. It was so fun with long throw headers and a few other performance items. 70's rocked.

[balthazar]

I was paging through the 1975 Olds brochure

Unable to sleep?

Possibly a late-year addition? My Chilton's only lists the 151 & 301 Pontiac engines available in an Olds, in fact it lists NO 400 for '75-82 inclusive.

I see the online O-75 brochure lists the 350 & 455 for the 88, and the 400 or 455 for the 98.

Specs changed often in the mid-70s, that's for sure.

[David]

I was paging through the 1975 Olds brochure

Unable to sleep?

Possibly a late-year addition? My Chilton's only lists the 151 & 301 Pontiac engines available in an Olds, in fact it lists NO 400 for '75-82 inclusive.

I see the online O-75 brochure lists the 350 & 455 for the 88, and the 400 or 455 for the 98.

Specs changed often in the mid-70s, that's for sure.

While the doc's might not list the 400 online for the 88, I truly believe that some parts/options got cross swapped between the models as I do remember our Olds Dealership talking about getting custom ordered cars with options that were not ordered on them and only showed up on other models. It was a crazy time for placing custom ordered cars.

[Drew Dowdell]

My book lists the 350 as standard with 170hp, 455 optional with 190hp, and the 400 with 170hp on Sedans and coupes only.

98 and Custom Cruiser also had an optional 400 but with the 4v carb and 185 hp. 455 with 190hp was standard.

[NeonLX]

Hmmm...I looked at the copy of the '75 Olds brochure on oldcarbrochures.com, and they don't mention the 400 V8 in reference to the 88 models (but there is mention of the 400 4V for Custom Cruiser and 98). But my copy at home does show the 400 2v as an option for the 88s. I should see if I can scan the page and post it.

Here's the online version:

http://oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Oldsmobile/1975%20Oldsmobile/1975%20Oldsmobile%20Full%20Line%20Brochure/75%20Oldsmobile%20Pg%2017.html

[NeonLX]

So we know that at least two different versions of the 1975 Olds borchure got published. Haven't been able to post the scan of my copy yet because our home internet is down. I should look for a publishing date on it and compare with the one over at oldcarbrochures.com.

Curioser and curioser.

[NeonLX]

OK, let's see if this works. I scanned a page of my '75 Olds brochure, showing the 88 specs:

[David]

Interesting to see the 400 v8 2bbl at the bottom of the fourth paragraph on the bottom. At least this confirms that our Olds was not a freak but actually part of an available package.

[Guest Cameron Milne]

I just found this thread via the wonders of my search engine. Looking at the 1975 Oldsmobile full-line brochure that I got from the dealer in late September 1974 it mentions the 400 4-barrel being an option in the Oldsmobile 98s & Custom Cruiser wagons. My copy also does not show any 400 being offered on the Delta 88 models. My brochure is a Canadian edition with a printing date of 8/29/74. Perhaps the Delta 88 models with their standard 350s, being built in Canadian versions in Oshawa, did not need to offer a 400. The Olds 98s may have all come from a U.S. plant. (Lansing?)

After the fuel crisis of October 1973 that torpedoed the 1974 sales year (one of the worst years for fuel economy) you started to see running changes in the lineups. Extra tall axle ratios became mid-year options, the Buick 455 Stage 1 became unsalable and was soon dropped, and even the Trans Am downgraded from the 455 to the 400 as standard. For 1975 the changes continued with the downgrading of the Caprice's standard powerplant from the 400 2-barrel to a 350 2-barrel, the Oldsmobile Cutlass began offering the inline six for the first time since 1971, Buick brought back the V6 with modifications, big blocks were history in the Corvette, Olds introduced a 260 V8 (even offering a Warner T-50 5-speed manual), and some kind of curious 400 was offered as a more fuel conscious alternative to the 455 in the big Olds 98. I always wondered whose 400 was under the hood. Now I have learned 42 years after the fact.

Even the new Chrysler Cordoba could be downgraded to a 318 from the standard 360, as could the full-size Dodges & Plymouths. I know one guy that had a 75 Plymouth full-size wagon that came with a 318 & super tall 2.41:1 rear gears; he said it could barely spin the rear tire on ice! I question the effectiveness of these too tall axle ratios in a country with a new 55-mph speed limit. You would practically be idling until you came to a grade, then with poor torque multiplication the momentum would drop and you would have to put your foot into it, with very unsatisfying results. Cruise control at least would keep your frustrated foot out of the equation. The desperate madness would continue through the end of the 1970s, coupled with the institution of Corporate Average Fuel Economy ratings being mandated for the 1978 model year.

[Drew Dowdell]

Thanks for that history! You should sign up and hang out here more.

[loki]

On 12/20/2012 at 1:52 PM, dfelt said:

Interesting to see the 400 v8 2bbl at the bottom of the fourth paragraph on the bottom. At least this confirms that our Olds was not a freak but actually part of an available package.

I was thinking of noting my bolded in your quote...  I had never before seen "barrels" called out differently than bbl's

[David]

22 minutes ago, loki said:

I was thinking of noting my bolded in your quote...  I had never before seen "barrels" called out differently than bbl's

Showing my age  

[balthazar]

Some of these 'moves' did occur earlier than circa '73.
@ Pontiac, for instance, the Catalina got a 350 as standard equipment for 1970, and the ultra highway gear 2.41 rear axle showed up for 1965 (in '64 the highest ratio was 2.67). Tho gas prices were stable & were in the 35 cent/gal area on average, I believe the popularity of some of the imports, namely the Beetle, and their own market success with the A-Bodies, may have opened the General's eyes earlier than they're commonly given credit for.

Not that someone concerned with economy would cross-shop a Beetle and a 17-foot 2bbl Catalina...

For context, I drove a '64 Catalina 389 low compression 2bbl with a 2.67 rear. I logged every tank over 25K miles and it averaged 14 MPG, tho to be candid I drove that car like the name of Meatloaf's best selling album.

Edited June 13, 2017 by balthazar

[Robert Hall]

Interesting that Olds used a Pontiac engine in 75.  Why not the Olds 350?  Did they have the 403 then that was later used in some Pontiacs? 

[balthazar]

14 hours ago, Guest Cameron Milne said:

I just found this thread via the wonders of my search engine. Looking at the 1975 Oldsmobile full-line brochure that I got from the dealer in late September 1974 it mentions the 400 4-barrel being an option in the Oldsmobile 98s & Custom Cruiser wagons. My copy also does not show any 400 being offered on the Delta 88 models. My brochure is a Canadian edition with a printing date of 8/29/74. Perhaps the Delta 88 models with their standard 350s, being built in Canadian versions in Oshawa, did not need to offer a 400.

In looking into this, Chilton's 1975-1984 repair manual does not list a 400 in their Olds 88/ 98/ Cutlass/ Starfire/ etc chapter for any of those years inclusive, either in the engine ID or general engine specs tables. In '75, Olds offered the 231 Buick V6, the 250 Chevy I6, 260 Olds, 350 Buick, 350 Olds & 455 Olds V8s.

Olds 403 first shows up for '77.

The '75 Olds brochure page here does show a "400" listed in the text;

http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Oldsmobile/1975 Oldsmobile/1975 Oldsmobile Full Line Brochure/75 Oldsmobile Pg 21.html

but consider the possibility that this may have been an early plan that was changed, or even a typo. Sources like Chilton's, printed well after the fact, should be more verified than an early brochure printing. I tend to believe either of these was closer to the truth than a 400CI '75 Olds 98.

GM was playing a lot of 'engine roulette' in the '70s. It was a tumultuous time for the industry and plans changed with great rapidity & frequency. Dodge advertised a '71 Challenger T/A model in print ads... tho that model was never actually built; it was a '70-only package. Also- Pontiac printed/ advertised that the SD455 was going to be available in the '73 Grand Am, but it never was.