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Vehicle : 1940 Ford C.O.E.


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  • 2 weeks later...

OK; update.

• brakes are all bled. Had some minor leaks, tightened everything down, seems sealed now. System filled pretty quickly for one bone dry. Expelled about 7 oz of fluid after bleeding them twice.

• bolted both seat backs in place.

• bolted tool box down behind the cab.

• Ummm…. truck is done. Cleaned everything left on or around the truck away, moved a car & trailer blocking the door…. it's ready to roll. Friday afternoon is T-Day. Stay tuned...

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it's alive!

Overall went really well- I's happy!
• There's a lot going on in the cab- the process is : manually choke the carb, turn the battery switch on, turn the ignition switch on, (has electric fuel pump), hit the starter button. I had the doghouse off so I could watch things, so you have a V8 less than a foot from your knee, fan whirring.
• Shifted really easily for a non-synchro 4-spd. Everything is probably really 'broken in" inside the gearbox. I hadn't driven a manual trans in over 20 years before today.
• I expected more metal-on-metla sounds of panels rubbing or clanking but there was none of that.
• Also expected it to be bouncier, but I only ran up & down the driveway (my driveway is fairly rough) but it felt smooth to me. If you watch- the rear tires catch air- I felt the bump but wasn't aware of the hop.
• One thing that strikes you is the manual steering. You have work to do in there; the wheel is 18" diameter for a reason.

• Throttle stuck a few times, have to go thru the linkage and eliminate that.
• Need another go-round the brake fittings and make sure everything is tight. But the brakes worked just fine. It's the steering you have to plan for.

IMG_0970.MOV

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Sticky throttle was the linkage rod under the gas pedal: an adjusting nut was catching the edge of the floor.
Clearanced it there and no more hangups. Perhaps a two-fold positive of the previous throttle issue: 1. Ran the engine probably close to redline 3 or 4 times (no tach, but HP is rated at 3800 RPM) and 2. I didn't panic at all, which is a good sign for going out on the road.

The 3 bystanders watching it roll back & forth reported it sounded really good: ran smooth and had a nice minor rumble. I was trapped in the cab with a roaring non-clutch fan so I didn't hear it well.


Still want to go over all the brake fittings and double check, check all the fluids again, then start the registration/insurance dance. 

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21 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Ran her outside for insurance / DMV pics, then back in- no problems to report. Truck idles in 2nd gear with no pedal- she's turning out to be easier to drive than my recollections of modern 4-spds…. tho I reserve judgement 'til out on the road and hitting 4th.

DSC04817.JPG

Very cool pic, does your DMV require mud flaps? Going to add anything to the back or just run it as is?

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• Funny you should ask- I was @ the DMV today & asked that ? but I don't place a ton of faith in those DMV 'receptionists'. But he claimed if it didn't have it as original equipment, they can't retroactively require it. I've always subscribed to that theory… but that doesn't mean that every traffic cop knows that mantra. NO ONE is going to know what this had as original equipment- I barely do.

If it was conventionally registered, in NJ it would have to be 6001 lbs or more to require them. What you see above is 4570 lbs according to FoMoCo lit; I would shoot for 5900 if I was doing conventional reg… but apparently, that's not an issue either way. No flaps here, don't want 'em.

• I do not have plans for any sort of bed. I dislike flatbeds/stake bodies because they look too 'farmer-y' to me. I've drawn a long teardrop enclosed container… or have also contemplated a really vintage, round-nose horse trailer box with ribbed sides… but there's no active plans to do that. I like the 'factory' cab/chassis look just fine. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have always cast a side eye at the generator. Battery seems to not be charging, and the manual says -get this- the generator needs to be removed & cleaned inside every 6 mnths or 5000 miles. So out it comes; basically the last component not given any attention. Had to drain the cooling system most of the way and unhook one of the upper radiator pipes to get it out, as you can't really disconnect the fan (yes- the fan is bolted to the generator). Inside was pretty filthy, and the 'mica grooves' were packed full of crud. Will have to sit and clean the thing out- looks like a good 2 hours work.

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1 hour ago, balthazar said:

I have always cast a side eye at the generator. Battery seems to not be charging, and the manual says -get this- the generator needs to be removed & cleaned inside every 6 mnths or 5000 miles. So out it comes; basically the last component not given any attention. Had to drain the cooling system most of the way and unhook one of the upper radiator pipes to get it out, as you can't really disconnect the fan (yes- the fan is bolted to the generator). Inside was pretty filthy, and the 'mica grooves' were packed full of crud. Will have to sit and clean the thing out- looks like a good 2 hours work.

WOW, are all trucks from this generation like that in having a generator not an alternator? What do the grooves provide? I find this very interesting considering it is a generator and not an alternator.

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Alternators are an early '60s thing. Actually, Chrysler patented it, first began offering them on taxis in '50, putting them on passenger cars beginning in '60.

Spec-wise, the COE idles at 400, but the generator doesn't produce feedback voltage until around 900 RPM, so at idle, the truck is running off the battery. That, output limitations, and increasing electrical demand made the switchover to alts a necessity.

I'll take some pics today of my generator- going out to work on it in a bit.

- - - - - 

Here's a few pics inside the gennie :

IMG_0973 2.jpg

This is the inside of the rear cover. The brushes are at 10:00 & 4:00. In disassembling, one of those 2 coiled tensions springs broke, but I was able to find replacements at a local generator/alternator shop.

This is the armature. The post at the top rides in the bushing pocket in the above pic. That black band below the post is the commutator, or where the brushes ride and do their magical electrical… magic. Except they're supposed to be clean copper, with recessed grooves vertically (you can see the radial lines on the top of that cylinder).

IMG_0976 2.jpg

It did take a few hours of my buddy working on it, now it's nice & clean, & so is the lower section that spins twixt the magnets.

Edited by balthazar
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  • 3 weeks later...

Generator commutator after being dressed & cleaned :

gennie 2.jpg

You can see the black scunge on the commutator is gone & the grooves are back. It's been bench tested and the generator is back online- yet another decades-old piece that still works.  Tho the dual pulley / fan-mounted-to generator is specific to the Cab Over, the guts could've been changed out at some point- who knows. If they were, it appears to have still been a good 40 years ago or more.

Generator also tested fine in the truck, as it's been reinstalled & the cooling system re-filled. However, the battery still isn't charging, so we did a few tests on the voltage regulator. This component controls & switches the flow of power; into the battery when it's depleted, and to run the truck when the battery is full. I have an old Filko unit on my truck, which the faint lettering shows 'Chicago' with a zip code, which means post 1963. The manual tries to make a voltage regulator sound simple, but it's pretty delicate in that you can't adjust it with it's cover off, as it has thermo-coils inside and the cover helps retain the heat generated by electrical flown the coils, affecting when points open & close. And the manual want setting specific to one-tenth of a volt. 

On the other side, during this testing this past weekend, the truck was started 7 or 8 times, and twice it was revved pretty high (well; for this engine - HP is rated at only 3800), it popped to life very willingly and ran very smooth.  

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well, I think/hope it's all done.

• Had to replace the voltage regulator, an aftermarket bit probably 40 years old. $58 @ NAPA. Battery is charging now.
• Installed the doghouse, the passenger seat, put the grille back on
• Gave a stab at adjusting idle speed; tried to get a Mac Tools test unit to work (clip over a spark plug wire to read RPM) but the needle just wiggled around 900-925, even when I revved it. Idle is supposed to be 400- I think I'm fairly close.
• Front tires were quite low the other day, could see they were down. I had the tubes changed out in the heat of summer, I think I had them aired to 50 and they were down to 25, but hopefully that was just the time/weather change. Aired them back up to 40 this time and they've held for 4 days.

Truck is consistantly starting real easy & quick; she wants to go.

Calling for rain tomm, I'll toss another 2.5 gals of 87 in her and if it's clear Friday- go out on the actual road.

Edited by balthazar
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Took the truck down the road today (residential street). Beautiful day for a groaning, rattly, stop-n-start drive in a truck so archaic it almost wasn't fun.

First off, my buddy decided he was going to 'teach me to drive my truck'. He's driven plenty of everything trucky & manual, but the issue is he's 6'4" and (he says) 315 lbs. He somehow crammed himself inside, but he shifted much worse than me. He blamed his fitment into the cab. His foot got caught getting out- I had to lift his shoe out. This is the most ungraceful-egress vehicle I've ever seen.

Seriously, this gen COE is akin to WWII submarine, I really think like 5'10" and 225 lbs is it, and if you have disproportionally large feet, forget it.

Anyway, he drove it down the street where we turned off on a side road and stopped a bit. Then I drove it back home. No real issues except one- the generator still may need to be pulled & greased; after a bit it screeches. It has an oiling port, but even back home & oiled, it ran for another few minutes & started screeching. I ended up pulled it head-first in to the shop because I don't want to ruin anything by taking the 10 minutes to back out on the street, turnaround, and back in to the shop.

Speedo isn't working- something with the cable perhaps, but I expect I had the truck doing 30 MPH in 4th- seemed fine.

Going to be a long acclimation curve tho, and there's a local show the 23rd this month, only 4.5 miles up the road I'm shooting to attend.

 

Picture0409171952_1.jpg

Edited by balthazar
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  • 2 weeks later...

DSC04896.JPG

Went 1.2 miles down the road will little drama today.
Had 5 out of 6 people walking wave at me going by, only a few of them looked nervous. Seems to be a bit of a attention getter.

Once home the generator started acting up again, as it's been apart twice with no obvious cause found, AND it doesn't seem to be outputting like it should - the gen/VR should've been outputting 7.1-7.4, but the battery was at the same 5.9V after the trip.

Edited by balthazar
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On 2/24/2017 at 6:52 PM, balthazar said:

it's alive!

Overall went really well- I's happy!
• There's a lot going on in the cab- the process is : manually choke the carb, turn the battery switch on, turn the ignition switch on, (has electric fuel pump), hit the starter button. I had the doghouse off so I could watch things, so you have a V8 less than a foot from your knee, fan whirring.
• Shifted really easily for a non-synchro 4-spd. Everything is probably really 'broken in" inside the gearbox. I hadn't driven a manual trans in over 20 years before today.
• I expected more metal-on-metla sounds of panels rubbing or clanking but there was none of that.
• Also expected it to be bouncier, but I only ran up & down the driveway (my driveway is fairly rough) but it felt smooth to me. If you watch- the rear tires catch air- I felt the bump but wasn't aware of the hop.
• One thing that strikes you is the manual steering. You have work to do in there; the wheel is 18" diameter for a reason.

• Throttle stuck a few times, have to go thru the linkage and eliminate that.
• Need another go-round the brake fittings and make sure everything is tight. But the brakes worked just fine. It's the steering you have to plan for.

IMG_0970.MOV

You need some weight on them there back tires... a high(er) speed emergency stop could have you tip uncomfortably forward. 

I can't believe you haven't driven a manual in 20+ years.

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On 3/8/2017 at 9:21 AM, balthazar said:

Alternators are an early '60s thing. Actually, Chrysler patented it, first began offering them on taxis in '50, putting them on passenger cars beginning in '60.

Spec-wise, the COE idles at 400, but the generator doesn't produce feedback voltage until around 900 RPM, so at idle, the truck is running off the battery. That, output limitations, and increasing electrical demand made the switchover to alts a necessity.

That's something that always bothered me about generators seeing how  @HoLottaBuicks '57 Century discharges at idle.. ... if they didn't produce electric until they hit a certain RPM, why wouldn't a pulley size change help fix that?

I realize there's gotta be more to it than just spinning the generator faster.

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1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

That's something that always bothered me about generators seeing how  @HoLottaBuicks '57 Century discharges at idle.. ... if they didn't produce electric until they hit a certain RPM, why wouldn't a pulley size change help fix that?

I realize there's gotta be more to it than just spinning the generator faster.

My truck idles about 450, charges about 900. Current pulley is about 3", would have to be less than 1.5" to double the generator speed - nothing like that available. Old Fords also use wider belts (wider than post-war); would have to swap out all pulleys if using a modern-sized substitution. Not feasible. In normal operation, generator-equipped vehicles do just fine as far as charging, even the big delivery trucks seem to do fine, esp if one doesn't have a lot of auxiliary equipment/lights to power. Generator shop told me you could drive a low-load vehicle with a charged battery & no feed from the generator for a day or 2. I'm not sure what (theoretically) changing the pulley size would do- voltage regulator is likewise involved...

I don't care for manuals. I'd don't find them enjoyable in general- I like the mysterious magical nature of the hydraulic automatic. In other words; I prefer to shift it & mash it.
I can objectively tell you this; so far I'm doing better than my one buddy who drove it, who talks fondly about his old manual Celica, and better than my other friend who'd driven probably 5000 vehicles. Buddy 1 kept loosing steam and having to re-downshift, buddy 2 ground the gears mercilessly. I'm fine on the upshift, just need to acclimate to the proper downshifting procedure. It would help on my truck if one didn't have to yank on that 18" steering wheel like Popeye to pilot the thing at low speed.

RE the brakes, it has 14-in & 15-in drums with ample pads, it was engineered for up to 28K lbs and according to 1941 Ford lit, my truck [134" WB COE with dually rear & auxiliary springs] only weighs 3850. Seems hard to believe standing in front of it.

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2 hours ago, balthazar said:

I'm surprised your era E-Bodies are that light. I checked a '83 Riviera T-Type road test I have, 3.8LT : curb weight 3675. An '83 Eldorado TC  was 3830.

Clearly plastics are heavier than steel. ;)

I wonder if my Toronado is slightly heavier than the Eldorado TC.... 5.0 cast iron block v. 4.1 aluminium block. Everything else is mechanically identical. 

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28 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I wonder if my Toronado is slightly heavier than the Eldorado TC.... 5.0 cast iron block v. 4.1 aluminum block. Everything else is mechanically identical. 

That would make sense.

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Eldo may make up for it via optional equipment, no? And the 249 V8 does have iron heads.
For your consideration ~
1982 Seville Elegante, 4.1L V8, curb weight : 3814
1981 Seville, 5.7L diesel V8, curb weight : 4255

HEY!! We're muckin' up my thread with this O/T crap! ;)

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23 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Eldo may make up for it via optional equipment, no? And the 249 V8 does have iron heads.
For your consideration ~
1982 Seville Elegante, 4.1L V8, curb weight : 3814
1981 Seville, 5.7L diesel V8, curb weight : 4255

HEY!! We're muckin' up my thread with this O/T crap! ;)

Back on topic! Wow! An '81 Diesel Seville is 300lbs heavier than your COE! :D

 

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  • 1 month later...

So the speedo in the COE wasn't working (as mentioned earlier). I bought it a number of years ago at a swap meet- appeared to be NOS (there's a pic somewhere in earlier pages). This is fairly unusual because it's a HD Ford truck speedo, different than all other Ford speedos, and thusly fairly rare.

In disconnecting the cable from the back of the speedo, it spun and pulled out a few inches. I figured this meant it was snapped somewhere. Unfortunately, getting to the trans-end of the cable was impossible; you could see it (a hand-tightened knurled nut) but there was no way to get fingers or tools on it. So the driveshaft-mounted parking brake had to be disconnected, and the driveshaft had to be disconnected. Then a few delicate taps with a chisel and the trans end was off.

Yep- the cable was snapped & twisted about 4 inches from the trans- so the work was worth it. [--Well, yes & no. Ford had it designed to pull out from the speedo end, leaving the sheath in place snaking thru the cab. However, in this case that would have left the snapped end still down there.--]

Found an NOS COE speedo cable on eBay for $19. Cleaned & lubed the sheath & cable, reinstalled, and reversed the aforementioned disassembly. Started it up [--still kicking right over like it's 7 years old instead of 77 (but with far nicer noises)--]. First off was to check the post-generator shop visit generator, and it indeed put out much better volts than before. So then I idled out of the shop and took 2 trips up the driveway (about 80-100 feet each time). Speedo needle never budged. Shut the truck off and pondered.

We pulled the cable from the back of the speedo and I used a square-drive bit to try & turn the speedo manually. Nothing- it was seized up tight. 1. I hoped I didn't just snap another speedo cable, and 2. WTF was the issue with the speedo?

Oh, and the squeal returned just as I was easing the big rig back into the shop.

- - - - -

• The generator came back out, tho we are now able to disconnect/remove it without draining the cooling system (for the 4th time). Going to ponder that scenario.

• The speedo's lube apparently had turned to varnish and nothing turned. Had to completely disassemble it & clean... and there's a REALLY TINY spring for the speedo needle you don't want to think about touching. Also the speedo needle is about as delicate as you can imagine. I'd never dived inside a speedo before, had to 'un-flare' the center shaft in order to disassemble it, strange rotating magnet inside, still not sure how it works AT ALL... but it's back together and spinning freely. Also read online that there's little resistance at the trans end- meaning that if -say- the other end was in a locked up speedo, the cable just wouldn't turn, so it looks like I don't have to go thru that mess again.

- - - - -

Next up: going to put speedo back in & hook up, lube a few other things (distributor & generator) and run the truck again, searching for the squeal. REALLY hope to drive it on the street again, tho it's been raining a stupid amount this last month and I won't drive it in the rain.

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My buddy worked like 9 hours on the truck today; I was in & out.
PRIOR to today, he re-installed the generator & speedo & hooked everything up.

Fuel & oil pressure gauges weren't working: took out cluster, took out gauges, swapped in originals after verifying they worked with power. Hooked all back up & started truck- oil gauge went to about 45 (cold), then slowly settled toward 25-ish. Truck only ran about 3-4 mins. FoMoCo stated '35 lbs @ 35 MPH' as a guide. Apparently Ford flatheads can run on any viscosity oil (I currently have straight 30 weight in it).

Fuel gauge wavers quite a bit, but it moves. Via visual inspection (had tank sender off) it had 40% of a tank... but gauge never showed above 1/4 tank. Will monitor.

No squealing from anything- probably not enough run time. Didn't move truck so didn't check speedo.

- - - - -

Bought this trumpet horn at an estate sale this past weekend for $6. Installed but still working out the wiring to get it working in concert with the original (original has 2 terminals, horn button grounds it- trumpet only has 1 terminal).

DSC04929.jpg

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Bah : wired the trumpet horn 3 different ways but not working. It would fire directly off (2) 6-V lantern batteries, but any other way while wired into the system and either only the original horn worked, or neither. Going to leave it mounted in place and take another whack at it down the line.

 

EDIT : My buddy doesn't like unresolved issues. He gave the trumpet another look today, tested it systematically WRT grounds, re-adjusted the internals and now it works the way it was initially wired; via the horn button.
Has an interesting half-second delay before the trumpet kicks in, then the volume doubles. Sounds better now; not what one would call a 'big truck' sound, moreso a 'big old vehicle' sound. I'll take it. :D

- - - - -

Meanwhile out back- I had 2 of the 4 tires with God knows how old tubes in them, unable to air up due to bad valves... but 1 on each rear side was holding fine. Until last week when one of those 2 is now flat. If it doesnt pump up/hold, the truck is down until 4 new backordered tubes ship on July 14... then I have to drive them 45 mins one way to a truck tire center to get swapped out.

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  • 3 weeks later...
11 hours ago, balthazar said:

Dually tires loaded up to be dropped off tomm to get new tubes (they showed up early- thanks Coker Tire!)

 

DSC04943.JPG

Sweet...I need to visit you in New jersey so we can cruise around in this thing...

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1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Sure.
Tire place said the rims were rather rusty inside. First they suggested the rims be sandblasted & powdercoated.... but that ain't happenin'.
Instead: a good wire brushing and I have to order new tube flaps also.

You might look into that.  Before I bought the large bandsaw I have now which is in pretty good condition, I was going to try to restore a vintage band saw.  Local quote was seventy five dollars to sand blast everything and powder coat it any color I wanted...

 

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I have a sand blast cabinet and I've used some of that as a 'drop-in' set up with a bucket (on the B-59 frame, actually).

But that's not the issue- SB'ing/PC'ing would eradicate the patina (on the face of the rims). Not an option.

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Just now, balthazar said:

I have a sand blast cabinet and I've used some of that as a 'drop-in' set up with a bucket (on the B-59 frame, actually).

But that's not the issue- SB'ing/PC'ing would eradicate the patina (on the face of the rims). Not an option.

Ahhh... rational!

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  • 11 months later...

Picture0409171952_1.jpg

So... the COE made 3 trips out on the public streets last summer, but there was an issue.
We timed it, and at about 6-7 minutes of running, an increasingly louder, quickly piercing whistling sound would appear. Initially I thought it was the generator, but figured out it was a vacuum leak in the carb. Very disconcerting. So I found a dedicated carb rebuilder in NY and sent it off, tho not until last month. Figured I wasn't going to be driving it in the winter... then it slipped thru the cracks.

Got the carb back in a week's time, rebuilder said there was a number of bits incorrect inside, plus he milled all the mating surfaces and test ran it- said he got it running really well. Who knows how many people did what inside a 78 year old mechanical device.

Hooked it back up yesterday and ran it in the garage, timing it (garage door open & exhaust fan ducting out behind truck). Went 11 minutes and zero whistling. Idles very smooth, tho it takes a good 5 minus before you can completely take it off of choke.

Anyway, this represents the last component to address, so I can begin shake-down runs again; first in the driveway, then down my street, then in a wider & wider radius from home base.

There's a semi-truck dealership about 3 miles from my house and there always seems to be 1 or 2 empty parking spaces on the front line- would be fun to slip the '40 in there as if it were for sale.

Edited by balthazar
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  • 2 months later...
On 6/17/2018 at 7:16 AM, balthazar said:

Picture0409171952_1.jpg

So... the COE made 3 trips out on the public streets last summer, but there was an issue.
We timed it, and at about 6-7 minutes of running, an increasingly louder, quickly piercing whistling sound would appear. Initially I thought it was the generator, but figured out it was a vacuum leak in the carb. Very disconcerting. So I found a dedicated carb rebuilder in NY and sent it off, tho not until last month. Figured I wasn't going to be driving it in the winter... then it slipped thru the cracks.

Got the carb back in a week's time, rebuilder said there was a number of bits incorrect inside, plus he milled all the mating surfaces and test ran it- said he got it running really well. Who knows how many people did what inside a 78 year old mechanical device.

Hooked it back up yesterday and ran it in the garage, timing it (garage door open & exhaust fan ducting out behind truck). Went 11 minutes and zero whistling. Idles very smooth, tho it takes a good 5 minus before you can completely take it off of choke.

Anyway, this represents the last component to address, so I can begin shake-down runs again; first in the driveway, then down my street, then in a wider & wider radius from home base.

There's a semi-truck dealership about 3 miles from my house and there always seems to be 1 or 2 empty parking spaces on the front line- would be fun to slip the '40 in there as if it were for sale.

Just read your entire thread with interest  as I just purchased a 1940 COE, Congrats on the great journey with your truck. I most likely will be in touch for advise (c;

I'm a new member here and sadly  I can't view your photos for some reason. What part of NJ are you in? I'm in Albuquerque NM but visit NJ to see family I'd love to see your truck

 

This is My COE as purchased

2085339-0-revo.jpg

Edited by Howard
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Great to hear back from you balthazar, the truck I purchased does look nice but the closer I look the more I find that needs to be done ( nature of the hobby I suppose ) I'll be in south NJ Sept. 3rd - 5th and if possible I would enjoy getting together. My email is [email protected] if you would care toshare your contact info. I haven't actually "seen" your truck as I can't view your photos in the forum for some reason. In reading your thread I've admired your commitment to keeping it original and correct to the vehicle, shiny while nice doesn't help it run, Great job !! 

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  • 1 year later...

Local car show tomm but I waited too long to prep; COE wouldn't start this afternoon. Old stuff doesn't like to sit.
Cleared some flotsum off the frame, changed the oil (dirty & thin), checked the tire pressure (rears were good but fronts were low), charged the battery up (was in the high 4s,), put this year's insurance card in the truck.
Not sure what the issue is- gas is about 2 years old, smells a bit off but not bad. Starter has HUGE draw, drops 1.25-1.5 volts when cranking, so if it doesn't fire relatively quick, you start running the battery down. No different starting on the charger, either. Here's the thing - since it's generator-charged, it doesn't charge the battery unless the RPMs are up (to what, I can't tell). So idling doesn't help- you're still loosing juice as the plugs fire.

Bummed. Will have to get back on it.

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On 10/5/2019 at 7:12 PM, balthazar said:

Whubba lubba dub dub - she runs again!!

cleaned everything in dizzie and the plugs. Gas is old- may drain & replace. Need to take out / run regularly. 

 

Can't let it sit and be a garage queen. 

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