53 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Anything worth a damn is over 40k, and I'm just not going to spend 40k on something that will depreciate like an EV9 will. It will be a heck of a buy at 25-30k, but not at 40-45k.

The fact that the EV batteries are now outlasting ICE engines and are expected to even outlast the EV auto and you can then use it for a battery pack on the house if you add Solar. Plenty of options, but the range and low cost on the EV9 in comparison to an equal ICE is very compelling imho.

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

That said, $25k for a near full-size crossover in this economy means it's gonna have 75k miles or more if you find an amazing deal, so at $40k, you're just buying lower mileage regardless of how it's powered. A Kia Telluride with 15k miles is... $42k. A Kia EV9 with 15k miles is... $43k.

And that's why I'm not looking at those. I can easily find Prologues and Blazer EVs for 30k. I can find base models of each for 25k, but I like my niceties.

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

You both have points kinda. The Kia is going to depreciate, but with the mileage you're doing, everything is going to depreciate. You're gonna get killed on whatever you buy or you're gonna get killed fueling the Navigator. If you're making payments on the Navigator, you might end up netting out to the same monthly on an EV9 after subtracting fuel costs, but having a substantially newer vehicle.

A 35k loan (roughly the difference from my Navigator and 42k purchase price) is approaching $700/month. That's spending about $200 more a month than I am now with $175 payment + gas. That's nowhere close (in my opinion) to netting out. As gas comes down, the equation gets further apart. Yes, part of the point of this is to avoid the fluctuation of gas prices, but near-$700/mo isn't the way.

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

And that's why I'm not looking at those. I can easily find Prologues and Blazer EVs for 30k. I can find base models of each for 25k, but I like my niceties.

A 35k loan (roughly the difference from my Navigator and 42k purchase price) is approaching $700/month. That's spending about $200 more a month than I am now with $175 payment + gas. That's nowhere close (in my opinion) to netting out. As gas comes down, the equation gets further apart. Yes, part of the point of this is to avoid the fluctuation of gas prices, but near-$700/mo isn't the way.

Yea, at those numbers an EV9 doesn't break even. It depends on what kind of capability you're looking for if you need that kind of hauling capabilities. I think your Prologue / Blazer idea is pretty sound and you might even pull off a slight monthly savings that way if you can find a deal on one and drop the Navi.

4 hours ago, G. David Felt said:

The fact that the EV batteries are now outlasting ICE engines and are expected to even outlast the EV auto and you can then use it for a battery pack on the house if you add Solar. Plenty of options, but the range and low cost on the EV9 in comparison to an equal ICE is very compelling imho.

Well I'm not comparing the price of an EV to a comparable ICE vehicle. I'm comparing it to the ICE that I currently have that is not a 35k car payment + gas. It's a $175 payment + gas. ~500/month in total. I'm not looking to increase my monthly costs to avoid gas. That simply is not worth it.

34 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Well I'm not comparing the price of an EV to a comparable ICE vehicle. I'm comparing it to the ICE that I currently have that is not a 35k car payment + gas. It's a $175 payment + gas. ~500/month in total. I'm not looking to increase my monthly costs to avoid gas. That simply is not worth it.

Yeah, it sounds like it's purely a spreadsheet decision for you plus having a few niceties.

I'm very much in the same boat right now. Chrysler just increased the monthly payment on my extended warranty to $100/m from $60/m. We own the car outright, but now that warranty is getting to be too high when you consider it's also a $250 deductible for a repair claim, so we're gonna start shopping soon once some respective job changes settle down. I'm looking hard at used Lyriqs for now because I would really love having Super Cruise for all the highway travel I do. He won't be driving much at all anymore because his new place he can get to by bus. He likes the look of the ZDX and Wagoneer S. I want to like the Mach-E but I'm meh on the interior. He doesn't want something EV9 or Ioniq 9 sized.

There's no equation for us that makes buying an EV financially better than keeping our 300C, but it's got 105k miles on it and that's typically when we start looking to trade. That said, I've been banking 50% of both of our monthly mileage checks for a while now so between the trade in value and a sizable down payment fund, we should be good when the time comes.

7 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Well I'm not comparing the price of an EV to a comparable ICE vehicle. I'm comparing it to the ICE that I currently have that is not a 35k car payment + gas. It's a $175 payment + gas. ~500/month in total. I'm not looking to increase my monthly costs to avoid gas. That simply is not worth it.

A Prologue or Blazer is below your Navigator in size and capabilities of hauling people and space. The EV9 is on par with the Navigator. That is why I point to it.

In regards to depreciation, the biggest hit has already happened and with the low miles on the EV9 you pretty much are getting a new auto with a decent warranty that you will not get on ICE.

EV9 long 10year warranty on the auto plus the 150,000 / 15year warranty on the battery pack that Kia / Hyundai / Genesis is doing to me makes it a deal as you do not get that type of warranty on the equal ICE and both the Prologue and Blazer do not have as good a warranty or charging / efficiency since they are 400V systems versus 800V.

The engineer in me looks at all the details and I do not see the value gain in your statement above about the other EVs. To me, your getting old tech as GM is behind the EV curve. But that is my take on it.

8 hours ago, G. David Felt said:

A Prologue or Blazer is below your Navigator in size and capabilities of hauling people and space. The EV9 is on par with the Navigator. That is why I point to it.

In regards to depreciation, the biggest hit has already happened and with the low miles on the EV9 you pretty much are getting a new auto with a decent warranty that you will not get on ICE.

EV9 long 10year warranty on the auto plus the 150,000 / 15year warranty on the battery pack that Kia / Hyundai / Genesis is doing to me makes it a deal as you do not get that type of warranty on the equal ICE and both the Prologue and Blazer do not have as good a warranty or charging / efficiency since they are 400V systems versus 800V.

The engineer in me looks at all the details and I do not see the value gain in your statement above about the other EVs. To me, your getting old tech as GM is behind the EV curve. But that is my take on it.

I don't think old tech / new tech is going to matter to him on the charging front. He's going to charge at home on Level 2 mostly and spending a lot of extra money to charge 7 minutes faster a couple times a year isn't a good ROI. He's gonna kill the vehicle on mileage, so by the time his kids are bigger it will be time for a replacement vehicle anyway.

9 hours ago, G. David Felt said:

A Prologue or Blazer is below your Navigator in size and capabilities of hauling people and space. The EV9 is on par with the Navigator. That is why I point to it.

In regards to depreciation, the biggest hit has already happened and with the low miles on the EV9 you pretty much are getting a new auto with a decent warranty that you will not get on ICE.

EV9 long 10year warranty on the auto plus the 150,000 / 15year warranty on the battery pack that Kia / Hyundai / Genesis is doing to me makes it a deal as you do not get that type of warranty on the equal ICE and both the Prologue and Blazer do not have as good a warranty or charging / efficiency since they are 400V systems versus 800V.

The engineer in me looks at all the details and I do not see the value gain in your statement above about the other EVs. To me, your getting old tech as GM is behind the EV curve. But that is my take on it.

I know they're smaller, but I knew buying a Navigator that it was more than I needed. I just simply didn't like what was in my price range that was of the "larger 2-row" category. I came across 2015-2017 Expeditions and Navigators and liked what they offered at the time. I don't need three rows, but I wouldn't hate it either. The 3rd row would only be for extra storage as I don't need those seats.

I don't know how else to say this, but, I'm not comparing the next vehicle to another ICE vehicles. I'm ONLY comparing it to what I currently have. I don't care about the warranty comparison of an EV to a new ICE, because I'm not shopping for an new ICE vehicle, at all.

An EV9 is not as efficient as a Prologue/Blazer EV. 800v architecture or not. Look up the EPA efficiency numbers. I also don't really care about charging speeds. I've said this in the past. If I'm not charging at home 99% of the time, it isn't worth buying an EV. You lose nearly all fuel savings. I genuinely understand the wanting the newest tech statement. I really do. I almost always go that way as well, but if the tech has no advantage for me, it really doesn't matter.

22 hours ago, G. David Felt said:

The fact that the EV batteries are now outlasting ICE engines and are expected to even outlast the EV auto and you can then use it for a battery pack on the house if you add Solar. Plenty of options, but the range and low cost on the EV9 in comparison to an equal ICE is very compelling imho.

I love the idea of a battery pack for the House.

16 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Yeah, it sounds like it's purely a spreadsheet decision for you plus having a few niceties.

I'm very much in the same boat right now. Chrysler just increased the monthly payment on my extended warranty to $100/m from $60/m. We own the car outright, but now that warranty is getting to be too high when you consider it's also a $250 deductible for a repair claim, so we're gonna start shopping soon once some respective job changes settle down. I'm looking hard at used Lyriqs for now because I would really love having Super Cruise for all the highway travel I do. He won't be driving much at all anymore because his new place he can get to by bus. He likes the look of the ZDX and Wagoneer S. I want to like the Mach-E but I'm meh on the interior. He doesn't want something EV9 or Ioniq 9 sized.

There's no equation for us that makes buying an EV financially better than keeping our 300C, but it's got 105k miles on it and that's typically when we start looking to trade. That said, I've been banking 50% of both of our monthly mileage checks for a while now so between the trade in value and a sizable down payment fund, we should be good when the time comes.

Ooof, $100/month for an extended warranty seems steep. Then you're $250 deductible and I feel like you could pocket that money and save it for a repair. If no repair then saved a bunch. Then again... of course if something happens you'll have to drop a bunch of cash, but that's a solid car, isn't it? I wouldn't think you'd have much of anything to worry about with that.

I love the ZDX. That would easily my number 1 on my list if they'd come back down in price. Prior to gasoline spiking to around $5/gal, Prologues would be had pretty easily for 28k, ZDX's could be found around 32k or so. Lyriq is a close #2 for me, but they've stayed right around 40k "around" me, so I kind of wrote that off right away. I look them up every once in awhile just to see if prices are fluctuating or not.

I haven't really looked at the Wagoneer S. Is it worth a crap? Stellantis in general just kind of scares me for something new. I think it looks sharp. And, if I remember correctly, it had good performance numbers.

After everything I still wonder if I should just wait for a new president that would possibly reinstate a tax credit or if that's just gone forever.

1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

Ooof, $100/month for an extended warranty seems steep. Then you're $250 deductible and I feel like you could pocket that money and save it for a repair. If no repair then saved a bunch. Then again... of course if something happens you'll have to drop a bunch of cash, but that's a solid car, isn't it? I wouldn't think you'd have much of anything to worry about with that.

I love the ZDX. That would easily my number 1 on my list if they'd come back down in price. Prior to gasoline spiking to around $5/gal, Prologues would be had pretty easily for 28k, ZDX's could be found around 32k or so. Lyriq is a close #2 for me, but they've stayed right around 40k "around" me, so I kind of wrote that off right away. I look them up every once in awhile just to see if prices are fluctuating or not.

I haven't really looked at the Wagoneer S. Is it worth a crap? Stellantis in general just kind of scares me for something new. I think it looks sharp. And, if I remember correctly, it had good performance numbers.

After everything I still wonder if I should just wait for a new president that would possibly reinstate a tax credit or if that's just gone forever.

Yeah, $1200 a year is too high. I'll just pocket the money and keep building it up in the maintenance and repair fund I have that part of our expense checks go into. I'm going to leave it active till about September or October and then kill it. The car has largely been solid, but we did have some major repairs for a differential and an internal oil leak. The warranty did pay for itself there and I'm sure is a factor on why they raised my plan so much this renewal. I'd honestly buy another one if I wasn't set on an EV. For a long distance comfort cruiser, it's been a great car for the $23k we paid for it. We did a getway over the holiday weekend out to Columbus, Ohio and managed 29 mpg out of it.

I've driven the Wagonner S a couple times. It's on the list because it's around 300 mile range and it's the size and shape Albert wants. He wants the Acura more though. I want the Lyriq more. I want the G80 EV the most, but I'd have to put the Avalanche into storage for that because he still wants a crossover for himself.

Hi everyone- figured I’d pop in and see how everyone is doing. Since my kid is heading off to college in the fall, I finally might have some spare time again, lol. Plus facebook is getting pretty scary at this point- even family is not a reason to stay on too much longer….

Still have my ear to automotive being here in the motor city- some interesting stuff going on around here.

Just about done with car payments around here, and finding that the Equinox EV is growing on me…might help they are installing an EV charger at work…..

1 hour ago, daves87rs said:

Hi everyone- figured I’d pop in and see how everyone is doing. Since my kid is heading off to college in the fall, I finally might have some spare time again, lol. Plus facebook is getting pretty scary at this point- even family is not a reason to stay on too much longer….

Still have my ear to automotive being here in the motor city- some interesting stuff going on around here.

Just about done with car payments around here, and finding that the Equinox EV is growing on me…might help they are installing an EV charger at work…..

Welcome back, great to have you posting again. Very cool to hear your interested in an EV. Plenty of discussions here and we have some great data on it. You can always ask @Drew Dowdell or myself as I own a Kia EV9, Daughter has a Subaru Solterra. So, plenty of EV experience.

17 minutes ago, G. David Felt said:

Welcome back, great to have you posting again. Very cool to hear your interested in an EV. Plenty of discussions here and we have some great data on it. You can always ask @Drew Dowdell or myself as I own a Kia EV9, Daughter has a Subaru Solterra. So, plenty of EV experience.

Thanks! While I don’t plan on giving up good ol gas power- my drive to both work and the local area allows an EV to work quite well to save a buck or two, and I like the instant torque. Also helps I have quite a few co workers with EVs as well- including an EV9. Might help that I work with different industries, including automotive.

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