ccap41

ATS/CT6 short take

108 posts in this topic

ccap41    1,161

For those of you who were following my thread questioning the idea of buying an ATS this is already over there.. but for those of you who don't give two $h!s about my buying decisions I thought I'd throw this somewhere where people can just hear my opinions on a couple sweet-ass cars..imo.


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Well, I drove an ATS and I sat in a CT6(and fiddled with the infotainment stuffs).


 


ATS drove awesome. I loved how tight and nimble it felt. The trans felt a little snappy from gear to gear but not in a bad way, just in a way that I'm not used to in autos(you could feel the up-shifts upon light throttle application). But I've also never driven a sporty auto..well I guess my C350 was in a similar category just 7 years older. Just about everything about how it drove I really really liked. I immediately felt comfortable behind the wheel and I think some of that is I'm just more at home in smaller vehicles where I can feel the proportions much better than larger, "airier" vehicles. What I mean by that is, for instance, The space in the cabin from driver to the bottom of the windshield and pillars..just feels wait more "airy" in my Escape. The ATS, not so much. But I liked it. I felt more connected to the car right off the bat. Back seats were fine for me but I know I'm on the average side of people so anybody larger might have issues. Luckily for me I don't have many friends over 6' anyway. Plus, I've dealt with Mustangs in the past so having 4 doors is a plus already. I did find it odd that sitting in the back seat the roof was very low. Low to the point that the back 6inches of the roof-line actually have a cut out for taller riders, but my head was already occupying that space(not to the ceiling but awfully close for being 5'8")  so I really am not sure IF a 6' passenger could sit in the back.


 


The one thing that might actually be a deal breaker is the damn fake buttons for radio/HVAC. I honestly don't know how that was "okay'd". I didn't think the ones for the HVAC were really that bad. They were in good locations and responded 95% of the time I touched it. It was the ones by the radio( vehicle did NOT have CUE) that I just turned the volume knob and twice my pinky brushed the "radio" "button" and went to AM and then had to fiddle with it to get it back to FM. But that was really the only thing I didn't like, but I didn't like it a lot. I'd like to get some seat time w/ CUE and see how that is. I also realize that once I familiarize myself with the car I would probably just be using the steering wheel controls anyway but just the fact that it would take waaaay more getting used to that it should is kind of gear grinding.


 


CT6. F, that car is sexy in person. The dealer had one on the lot(2 pre-ordered and sold already) and this was their first to just be as regular inventory. This was a "lowly" version ringing in at only 61k so I couldn't imagine bringing that up to 90k+ w/ more bells and whistles(other than the TT3.0 and AWD which this did not have - obviously). I freakin' LOVED how the infotainment system navigated and looked and worked and everything, lol. The touch pad that works like a mouse..and you can feel through it where you're moving the "mouse". You place your finger on it and when moving left, right, up, or down it as tiny pulses recognizing which way you're moving your finger so you can probably navigate the screen with less effort while driving. It's just awesome. either touch the screen or use the touch pad which how I placed my thumb on it, fit ergonomically perfect to me from where I set the seat up to. No stretching or too cramped and bending my arm. The car was a little big for me but honestly, from the driver's seat it didn't feel too bad. I felt like I knew the proportions fairly well from the driver's seat and that's a very comforting feeling to me which I don't get in many vehicles but the outward visibility was superb as it was in the ATS. 


 


Oh yeah, I also remembered looking back from the driver's seat and seeing USB and AC outlets where the middle person would be sitting, between their knees. I really liked that because, for the most part, nobody sits there, and they're built in so it keeps the look clean, aaaaaand they were pretty well hidden because they were under the "butt cushion" part of the seat.


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Suaviloquent    713

I wouldn't say the CT6 is sexy. I like the way it looks, but it just doesn't measure up to the Jaguar XJ in terms of looks. But it does beat anything from Audi or BMW in looks.

 

The interior is great for the price, but NOT worthy of what I would expect a top of the line Cadillac to be. With the CT8 in the wind....we'll see where they go next.

 

If they had used the black mesh grille from the concepts and a smaller crest it'd easily look $10,000 more expensive. Seriously.

 

I would say an S-Class is not a car they people would think is "sexy" than "elegant" so I would exclude it from that kind of comparison.

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I agree with U CCap.. .the CT6 is effin SEXY. Sexy as f@#k. Personally I think the CT6 makes the 7Series, S-Class, A8, LS460, and especially the weirdly proportioned Jag XJ look like yesterday's fish wrapper.

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ccap41    1,161

The CT6 has some lines and creases that make it more "sexy" than "elegant" in my books. The SClass is along the elegant line as it has more flowing curves(but not bubbly) in my books.

Granted, I've never sat in an S Class, let alone a 120k brand new one but for the size of the car I thought the interior was pretty awesome. But, like I said, I haven't sat in an S Class or a 7 Series.. Or A8 or whatever letter Jag is this size. But at 61k other than having the 3.6 which I think I would want an engine with gobs of low-end to cruise rather than a peaky 3.6, it was great. Again, I haven't fiddled with the infotainment units in the other cars but I loved how well this responded, was controllable, looked, and was touch screen and had a "mouse-like" pad.

I don't know what the price gap is to get that with the 3.0tt but it would be tough to not get that in a dark or slate grey, agree with you on the grill - change it, and the OEM dark wheels to go with it..over the comparably priced competition. If money meant nothing an AMG 63/65 just because power but the price is outrageous for something like that.

Casa, have you gotten to take one for a spin yet?

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Suaviloquent    713

Ehhh... the CT6 I guess number 2 in terms of sexiness. Okay, I'll deem it sexy IMO. But look at the Jag man. It ain't reliable. But it's lickable, voluptuous, one purty kitty.

 

Jaguar_XJ_X351.jpg


I agree with U CCap.. .the CT6 is effin SEXY. Sexy as f@#k. Personally I think the CT6 makes the 7Series, S-Class, A8, LS460, and especially the weirdly proportioned Jag XJ look like yesterday's fish wrapper.

 

Funny you call it weirdly proportioned. $h! man, even I admit I'm a General Moron (in fact, I am a "Sir" General Moron, but do you really have to try to beat me at it?!!

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balthazar    1,876

The Jag XJ I would agree has some 'off' proportions. It has a LOT of front overhang that I find inelegant, and the greenhouse appears distended to the rear too far.
Once you move away from those cues, it's rather generic. I mean it's still a solid B grade, but…. eh.

 

This looks FAR more expensive IMO :

 

2016cadillacct6-02872.jpg

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Drew Dowdell    4,991

On the buttons, I notice that people often put their fingers in the wrong spot and only actually hit the proper spot by accident.  That seems to lead to a lot of the confusion.  You're not actually supposed to be touching the silver part at all (well you can, but that's not where the sensor is).... you're supposed to touch the icon above the silver line..... I found that once I changed my thinking on it, I never had an issue with the buttons. 

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Suaviloquent    713

Well, I'm not one for 'critical' design analysis. I just say what looks what to me.

 

And this is what I like about the XJ's looks "Those sleek headlights are a highlight, as is the seamless transition from the sloping roofline to the rear windshield and again to the trunklid that rises to meet it. Sure, rear visibility with a high trunklid isn’t very good, but that trunklid is part of a memorable exterior design."

 

Though I would still BUY the CT6 before anything else in this class of vehicle. 

 

And the XJ is not by any means generic. It's PURE Jaguar Sexifulll styling. It is a true flagship in terms of its interior as well. 

 

The Cadillac is nice...again, I would put my money on it. But it's not an advancement of Art and Science. It's just a larger CTS on the outside.

 

Besides. The I don't want to get into a debate over lines and creases. If you have a clean look, it's called bland. If you add too many like Lexus it's an abomination. If you add a little, it's called generic or derivative. Dammit.

 

2012-Jaguar-XJ-Sport-and-Speed-Pack-side

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Suaviloquent    713

Well, I'm not so sure about that... what defines design "purity" ?

 

Usually an unbridled commitment to many design cues, some of which become garish over time.

 

Ultimately it leads to stagnation - unless you have a brand image that is simply impenetrable to outside competitors, such that no one can steal buyers from you. That's what. 

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balthazar    1,876

If you have a clean look, it's called bland. If you add too many like Lexus it's an abomination. If you add a little, it's called generic or derivative. Dammit.

Yep, that's pretty much the way it goes. :D

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ccap41    1,161

On the buttons, I notice that people often put their fingers in the wrong spot and only actually hit the proper spot by accident.  That seems to lead to a lot of the confusion.  You're not actually supposed to be touching the silver part at all (well you can, but that's not where the sensor is).... you're supposed to touch the icon above the silver line..... I found that once I changed my thinking on it, I never had an issue with the buttons.

Oh yeah I don't think the HVAC "buttons" we an issue at all. I thought that it was kind of funny that a lot of the issues with that is people try and use the silver as a button not the icon.

My issue was(in a vehicle w/o CUE) simply turning the volume knob my pinky very easily came into contact with the "radio" button changing to the AM presets. Just poor placement because i don't have a big bulky hand and I don't consider myself careless or sloppy it was just at a bad location compared to the Radio knob. That's why I need to fiddle around with CUE because it is clearly layed out different.

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The CT6 has some lines and creases that make it more "sexy" than "elegant" in my books. The SClass is along the elegant line as it has more flowing curves(but not bubbly) in my books.

Granted, I've never sat in an S Class, let alone a 120k brand new one but for the size of the car I thought the interior was pretty awesome. But, like I said, I haven't sat in an S Class or a 7 Series.. Or A8 or whatever letter Jag is this size. But at 61k other than having the 3.6 which I think I would want an engine with gobs of low-end to cruise rather than a peaky 3.6, it was great. Again, I haven't fiddled with the infotainment units in the other cars but I loved how well this responded, was controllable, looked, and was touch screen and had a "mouse-like" pad.

I don't know what the price gap is to get that with the 3.0tt but it would be tough to not get that in a dark or slate grey, agree with you on the grill - change it, and the OEM dark wheels to go with it..over the comparably priced competition. If money meant nothing an AMG 63/65 just because power but the price is outrageous for something like that.

Casa, have you gotten to take one for a spin yet?

 

 

The CT6? No.. I have sat in and messed around with one, but my dealer hasn't gotten one and my other dealer with one is about 40 minutes away. I have considered riding down there, but feared I'd get there.. see a White Diamond CT6 Platinum.. and end up trading Rose in on the spot. :thumbsup:

 

As for the interior of the S-Class and 7 Series. They are, in their customized forms, a step above the Cadillac's BUT ONLY in customized trim. If U get into a normal S550, for instance, U will see that the CT6 Plat. is not only on par with it in terms of materials and design, but possibly rivals it. 

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Ehhh... the CT6 I guess number 2 in terms of sexiness. Okay, I'll deem it sexy IMO. But look at the Jag man. It ain't reliable. But it's lickable, voluptuous, one purty kitty.

 

Jaguar_XJ_X351.jpg

I agree with U CCap.. .the CT6 is effin SEXY. Sexy as f@#k. Personally I think the CT6 makes the 7Series, S-Class, A8, LS460, and especially the weirdly proportioned Jag XJ look like yesterday's fish wrapper.

 

Funny you call it weirdly proportioned. $h! man, even I admit I'm a General Moron (in fact, I am a "Sir" General Moron, but do you really have to try to beat me at it?!!

 

 

 

Dude.. U don't even register half the time. I just think your tastes suck.. and that Jag looks about as "money" or "sexy" as a ham sandwich. Not to mention the design is OLD. It looks older in fact, to me, than the real XJ it replaced. The one that looked like it was designed specifically for the wealth jet-setter. This one looks like it was designed by the same guy who designed the 2010 Lincoln MKS

 

This was a Jag XJ

 

2009_jaguar_xj-series-pic-64032-1600x120

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On the buttons, I notice that people often put their fingers in the wrong spot and only actually hit the proper spot by accident.  That seems to lead to a lot of the confusion.  You're not actually supposed to be touching the silver part at all (well you can, but that's not where the sensor is).... you're supposed to touch the icon above the silver line..... I found that once I changed my thinking on it, I never had an issue with the buttons. 

 

 

Learned this on my first outing with CUE in an Escalade. Once I learned that the silver slivers with simply "markers" denoting where the sensor was.. I never had an issue again. Coincidentally.. my almost 16 year old daughter, upon her first time getting in my V.. having never used CUE before..  turns the headset on.. pairs her phone.. "cues up" Spotify.. slides her finger across the volume sensor.. and commences in blaring Beyonce. It was of no never-mind to her that OLD PEOPLE had had trouble enough figuring out CUE that it screwed Cadillac ranking in JD Power's issues per vehicle report last year. Her only words before me telling her to turn it down was;  "Slick..." 29qnuaw.jpg

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Suaviloquent    713

No, not even the Platinum CT6 has an interior close to that of the S-Class base model. It's just a pipe dream. Also, Cadillac had in the pre-production Platinum cars an airbag cover that was leather, and for production cars they took it out.

 

There is no resolution of the fact that the CT6 CANNOT compete with the S-Class. Why the hell would JDN say it's "NOT a flagship."

 

Sheesh.

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ccap41    1,161

I think the 30k price gap says a lot too.. 

 

Cadillac will make a true flagship to compete with the S Class eventually. And to me... the CT6 is freakin awesome. It would hard not to at least involve it in a decision making process. But I guess when you're spending that kind of money the decision is made before even seeing what each make has to offer. The buyer either leaves the house thinking "I'm getting a new Benz today" or "I'm getting a new Caddy today". 

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Drew Dowdell    4,991

No, not even the Platinum CT6 has an interior close to that of the S-Class base model. It's just a pipe dream. Also, Cadillac had in the pre-production Platinum cars an airbag cover that was leather, and for production cars they took it out.

 

There is no resolution of the fact that the CT6 CANNOT compete with the S-Class. Why the hell would JDN say it's "NOT a flagship."

 

Sheesh.

 

Cadillac's flagship remains the Escalade for now. 

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Suaviloquent    713

That's not the point. They saved no expense for the platform, but then when it came time to actually make the great dare, they floundered on the interior. Like I can't believe how we were all led to believe it would be the car to bring Cadillac to the top. It just isn't that car. And NO it deos not rival an S-Class in any way, shape or form. The S-Class is just out of reach in every CT6 configuration. Unless they fix the interior, put back the same level of craftsmanship from the Fleetwood Brougham D'Elegance, and get the V8 back as well. 

 

Here's a review that I thought was far more REALISTIC about the capabilities of the CT6. Sure it's a real savings over the competition. But why muddle in that territory? The marketing guys have to start asking the top brass, why the f*** do we always price ourselves below the competition? It hurts their overall design execution, and leads to compromise. 

 

http://www.automobilemag.com/news/2016-cadillac-ct6-review/

 

Also, I just see this car being rather superfluous if they have another sedan above it. I mean, sure Mercedes makes the Maybach....but they're essentially the same car, even majority of the styling is the same. 

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Suaviloquent    713

 

No, not even the Platinum CT6 has an interior close to that of the S-Class base model. It's just a pipe dream. Also, Cadillac had in the pre-production Platinum cars an airbag cover that was leather, and for production cars they took it out.

 

There is no resolution of the fact that the CT6 CANNOT compete with the S-Class. Why the hell would JDN say it's "NOT a flagship."

 

Sheesh.

 

Cadillac's flagship remains the Escalade for now. 

 

 

Which is perfectly fine. I don't think there has to be a rigid template where the top sedan is the flagship vehicle. But I seriously hope that Cadillac does not ingrain in their philosophy that it is beneath them to build a very luxurious interior. Unless they're making a Tesla competitor at Cadillac (which they aren't - admission by their marketing guy), no one is fooled that the CT6 is a flagship vehicle worthy of the Cadillac name in every facet.

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Drew Dowdell    4,991

The mission of the CT6 changed part of the way through.... and when Cadillac does to an S-class level car, they'll still use the same platform most likely.

 

The CT6 is a driver's car for someone who wants a big car but doesn't want to sacrifice handling.   It's a 6-series or CLS with rear headroom and enough space for some luggage.   In terms of space, it's a bit like the old DTS, except now it has the agility of a 5-series or better. 

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ccap41    1,161

There was a comment on that page that I thought was worthy of rehashing..

 

"Why are they comparing this car to the S class, 7 Series and A8 when Cadillac explicitly states that it is not meant to compete with those cars?  Cadillac states that a competitor to that class will not arrive until the end of the decade.  This article seems like a childish attempt at proving that the car does not compete with cars it was not designed to compete with."

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Suaviloquent    713

Which is why I find it stupid when then said fans of GM start saying it's a rival to an S-Class, 7 Series or A8. In any way even. C'mon, I may be a General Moron, but I ain't buying that crap. Well I am inclined to buy a CT6. But I ain't buying that crap.

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Suaviloquent    713

The mission of the CT6 changed part of the way through.... and when Cadillac does to an S-class level car, they'll still use the same platform most likely.

 

The CT6 is a driver's car for someone who wants a big car but doesn't want to sacrifice handling.   It's a 6-series or CLS with rear headroom and enough space for some luggage.   In terms of space, it's a bit like the old DTS, except now it has the agility of a 5-series or better. 

 

The article from Automobile ultimately says it's not a night and day difference though with the large luxo-barges as it should be.

 

Look, I think of the priorities of the person buying this car, and then I look at the length of it...the only thing that I think is truly nice is the all-wheel steering, because it's probably the only thing that truly is a benefit for handling....the rest of it...think of how the XTS is driven. Will anyone drive the CT6 in any way different from the XTS? So in that sense, is that apparent handling advantage "useful" for them, or creating value?

 

Because if they instead stuffed more money into the interior, then I think they'd have truly blitzed the large sedan segment.

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