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Whatever you have to tell yourself because you have gone out of your way to move the bar whenever you see fit. And what is that even supposed to mean? Because I don’t own an EV, I cant talk about them? I can’t tout the benefits without getting scorned by the one hybrid owner here? Maybe you didn’t realize this but this is a car enthusiast site so folks here tend to talk about of all sorts of things car related and discuss cars and trucks they may not own. That doesn’t mean their opinions are somehow invalid (by your “lofty” standards anyway) or that we shouldn’t listen to them. If that is going to be the case, then maybe you should find a place where everyone thinks like you and outs “action behind their words” (like that means a damn thing here).

Yeah, I don't want a lot of land to take care of, but I am out of space for machines.

I’d really like to have an additional garage or small barn to have space for a project car and to tinker. Something quasi-rural but not really rural like my family farm.

I live in a cookie cutter Neo-colonial two story here in Columbus. My neighbors are great. Really should move to where I can build an outbuilding for all of my tools. But I will never get neighbors this good again. Camry would be my choice for a sedan in that segment. They also still offer a V6, or did so until recently. I still have all ten fingers.

^ I disagree; when someone says the price of X BEV is ‘too high’ and the response is that a $15K cheaper IC “equivalent” sedan is also expensive, that IMO absolutely dismisses the initial statement. If money were no object, most big sedans could just be cancelled and let the S-class pick every buyer up. Obviously there are buyers for BE’s, and that market share is slowly creeping up, but also obviously; going to a 100% BE industry is going to push many buyers out of the market. Waitin on my new GMC to be built, and it’s stupid expensive, but a Rivian is 50% more with NO OPTIONS. I would not be willing to pay that tag. Now picture folks struggling to swing a $30K mid-sizer and staring (potentially) at a $40K+ EV variant. Price disparity is everything.

Hi Balthazar, I will look and see if I can find any direct comparisons. The closest and why I think this way is companies that have been covered in the news and are at the build up stage to go mass production such as the following story: QuantumScape's New Solid-State Battery Is Twice as Energy-Dense as Lithium-Ion (singularityhub.com) Quote: Today’s lithium-ion batteries rely on a liquid electrolyte to ferry lithium ions between an anode (the negative electrode) made of graphite and a cathode (the positive electrode), which can be made from a variety of materials. The promise of a solid-state lithium metal battery is that you can swap out that graphite anode for one made of pure lithium and do away with the liquid electrolyte in favor of a solid one. This would obviously dramatically increase the energy density of the battery and is the reason scientists and engineers have been striving after the idea for decades. As we move away from early rare earth elements, we move towards solutions that use Silicon and Graphene over graphite. These materials are in abundance and cheap which is what will help to reduce battery cost and eventually stop the use of child labor in Africa for Colbalt as we stop using it. UPDATE on Quantum as they go into Pilot Production of less expensive solid state batteries not using rare earth elements such as Cobalt, Nickle and Magnesium. QuantumScape’s Next Step: Multilayer Solid-State Battery Cell Volume Production, CEO Says (forbes.com) Excellent info for those wanting to understand the changes coming from todays batteries built with rare earth elements to solid state batteries. EV Battery: What Materials are Behind It? (Anode and Cathode) (matmatch.com) Additional good high level info on battery and the changes coming. How solid-state batteries can transform electric cars - Roadshow (cnet.com) This I feel is a really good take on Solid State batteries and what we gain going from traditional Lithium-ion to solid state. The State of Solid-State Lithium Batteries (batterytechonline.com) Many sites have the same news today, but this one seemed to be the most complete on Solid State Batteries race: FutureBridge Predicts Solid-State Battery Cost Will Match Lithium-Ion By 2025 (insideevs.com) Pretty much the goal of auto companies and Toyota, Panasonic and the whole Japanese consortium that is planning to move into pilot production this year with auto use of solid state batteries by 2025 believe they can have solid stated batteries or SSB being equal in price with higher density to Lithium-Ion by 2025 with these Solid State Batteries to be good for 30 years retaining 90% of their charge holding power after 3 decades. Quote: Toyota says it is aiming for its SSBs to have a lifespan of 30 years - by that it means they should still retain 90 percent of their original capacity after three decades of normal use. Quote: analysis of the 2020 patent landscape in SSBs identified 426 published patent filings. China and US witnessed the highest patenting activity with 21% of the total filings each, followed by Japan with 18% filings. Toyota, Panasonic, Nippon, Hyundai, Murata Manufacturing, and LG Chem were among the leaders. Carmakers accounted for 28% of the SSB patent filings, led by Toyota and followed by Hyundai and Honda. The remaining 72% of filings came from diverse players like battery manufacturers, automotive suppliers, chemical companies, and academia. Quote: Back in 2010, the cost per 1 kWh in lithium-ion batteries was over $1,000 and in the space of a decade, it has gone down nearly tenfold. It is predicted that the cost of lithium-ion batteries will keep going down and that by 2030, the average price per 1 kWh will dip below $60. It currently seems implausible that SSBs would drop so much in cost by then, but with the sheer number of companies actively working on this, a breakthrough that could allow it is not out of the question.

Time machine please... s for real...

Stand-alone GMC dealer

Awesome, I would love to be in a custom ranch style rambler. Sadly, that would require me moving to an area that has slow internet speed which I need for work and the wife not being near our kids and the suburban area. So I am planning to remodel and add onto my house with a mother-inlaw apartment which I can rent out till my old age makes having a single level living space a must, then the daughter will move back home into the rest of the house is the plan. We will expand the regular house to have a more professional kitchen since the wife and I love to cook and remodel the rest of the house with an updated master bedroom. Love to see pictures of your house some time.

You love to talk like politician, in general terms and slogans. I am curious to see if you will follow your words with action, hopefully within next year, to bring humanity closer to future as you say. I don't think at this point that there are many people arguing that EVs are the future. I think the biggest argument here how close this future is and how economically feasible to switch completely to EVs in 15 years or so.

^ Yeah; I can’t help but sneer when I type the word ‘analyst’, but some folk place a lot of stock in them. Just relaying the info. But no one is saying new vehicles generally aren’t expensive; it’s the cost disparity being highlighted here.

My next will be a ranch. I hadn't lived with stairs since childhood, it's been painful at times going up and down 3 flights to do laundry. Albeit short flights.

I agree and people here are welcome to think I'm a dinosaur. Less is more, on so many levels, and that includes cars. I almost panic when I see the list of how many electric and automated regulating systems are already on cars, including entry-level cars under $20 K. How long will they hold up before that econobox needs to go in for a malfunctioning major system? My teenage car featured ABS and traction control, standard, but not too much else. I know we have some members who don't like Toyota much at all. And I'm not crazy about them, especially how they look. But, I was recently given a Camry as a rental, with a smooth shifting 8 speed automatic and a WHOPPING (by today's standards) 2.5 liters of 4 cylinder engine, with no turbo, and it pulls in highway fuel efficiency that is close to what a Malibu with a 1.5 T and a CVT pulls in. I'll take larger displacement ... and none of the gimmickry, for just a little less efficiency and more peace of mind. Nice. I remember these houses. Your lot is unusually large. All the latest construction in this area seems to be on no more than 7,000 sq. ft. lots, if that. What a great mix - evergreens and snow being a rare event, so you appreciate it when you do get it.

^ Was in a similar split-level today to do an estimate (gut & remodel both upstairs bathrooms). Grew up in a 2-story Colonial, didn't like stairs then, had a ranch custom-built I'll have been in for 29 years this November.

^ Maybe it's simply that they're too expensive. ?

Smart Chicks

Very sad. I just learned from the homepage that Jessica Walter died yesterday. There weren't many carbon copies of her, like there are with some run of the mill movie stars, and this is what she looked like if you don't remember her or the name. RIP Jessica Walter She played the obsessed fan-listener in "Play Misty for Me" who stalked a DJ in Monterey-Carmel, CA played by Clint Eastwood, and repeatedly called in the following song - the Errol Garner version as opposed to the later Johnny Mathis and Ray Stevens versions. She hit a home run with that one. Also, there is incredible footage of the Central California coast at Monterey, Carmel, and Big Sur in that movie. Also, "The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face" by Roberta Flack was in this movie, and in the scene that probably got it its R rating. We know @oldshurst442 likes that song a lot, as do many people with good taste.

I had an internal struggle regarding the price argument. Yes, an ICE version of the SAME model that also has an EV version, will be CONSIDERABLY LESS. No buts, ifs or ands. But we CONTINUE to bang that drum all across the EV board. And its kinda false. We seem to always make this argument and to justify our point we will take a LESSER ICE vehicle and compare it DIRECTLY to a more advanced EV model... Example from last week: We took a 26 000 dollar base Escape and compared it to a 50 000 dollar Mach E. Wrong in 2 ways: 1. base model family CUV 2. FAMILY CUV We then proceeded to compare the Mach E to its other brother. The Escape's bigger brother. The Edge. While the Edge is closer in spirit to the Mach E, THIS is where my internal struggle begins. While in those two scenarios, the Mach E and EVs in general, seem to lose the value argument on fuel savings and we equate that being more expensive than their ICE counterparts. BUT... after reading and listening to many other opinions on how ICE vehicles average transaction prices are going up and up and up...I started looking at another angle that EVERYBODY seems to miss. More or less on the Mach E rather than another EV. I done a quick research and found that a BMW X4 is actually about the same price as a Mach E... The exterior and interior dimensions are 99.9% identical. https://www.cars.com/research/compare/?acodes=USD10FOS392B0,USD10BMS261A0 In this case of a Mach E and a BMW X4, I wanna know why are we tooting that EVs are inherently pricier? Both are lifestyle, sporty coupey CUVs trying to sell to the same lifestyle, sporty coupey CUV buyer which is a more affluent buyer. And BOTH the Bimmer and the Ford are marketing to. The Escape is just a pedestrian, family haulin', CUV for the Average Joe. Doesnt seem logical to me to try and tell me EVs are pricier than when we do comparisons like that. When you look at the EV that is the Mach E and we compare it to a VERY comparable and SIMILAR ICE CUV in EVERY way INCLUDING to what market niche they BOTH belong to...then in THIS case I'll have to argue that: NO! EVs are not NECESSARILY more pricier than their ICE counterparts. At least in THIS case, they are actually the SAME price. I see progress to which EVs are starting to get price parity as their ICE counterparts ESPECIALLY when ICE average transaction prices are going higher. And when we choose to say that EVs are just 2% of the market place, its NOT the EVs that are making the average transaction price go up. Its ICE vehicles themselves. I dont want to confuse the situation and you folk will think that Im saying that EVs have price parity...Ive said in the beginning of this thought that turned into a long post that they do not. Its just that in the coming year or two, when many EV models will be available to the US consumer from GM, VW and others, many scenarios like this one will be replicated. And eventually, cheaper MSRP EV models will be introduced. When will that be? I do not know. But in the 40 000-60 000 dollar range, EVs will CERTAINLY be on par with their ICE counterparts offering same interior and exterior dimensions, luxury and options and even LONGER drive ranges than fuel tanks...

Too funny that you say politician as I am anything but, yet I do look forward to what the future will bring.

Which does not change the fact that you made an assumption about me that was wrong, like the fact that I’m trying to “prove” you wrong regarding price. I’ve never said anything of the sort except to put price into perspective. I’ve gone on record here, many times, saying that car prices are way too high (again, $37K average in this country). You can think whatever you want here but keep your facts straight and save the “I look forward to your EV review” remarks because that remark itself was just pure BS and deflection on your part. So we are now listening to the kings of miscalculations and speculations known as Goldman Sachs? LMAO! Newsflash, about every ICE vehicle out there will go up that much in price as well, like they’ve done for the last hundred years.

Love the color combos!

Goldman Sachs (via CNBC) reported yesterday that increased production of battery electrics will see a rise in core materials due to demand. Electric vehicle makers should brace for about an 18% increase in the cost of the battery packs. GS analysts stated that a return to historical peak prices would more than double the cost of lithium, double the cost of cobalt, and raise the cost of nickel by 60%. In a BE vehicle where 30% of the cost of the car is the batteries, a -for example- $50,000 Tesla Model 3's sticker would rise to about $52,700.

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/chinas-biggest-car-brand-launches-031639709.html The bolded parts have all kinds of implications. Especially if those goals are met... We could dismiss all of that, but I find it intriguing to where Geely wants to go in the global market place. Especially with what they own or co-own and/or are partnered with... Couple that with the many other Chinese cheaply priced EVs and things get real very quick to what kind of future awaits us in 2035...

This photo didn't fit into any car spotting thread per se ... ... but I always like to look at these, especially when the lights are on - and somebody IS home, so to speak.

Oh...THAT is actually a thing. Its actually a way of life in MANY places on this planet. JUST because in America we like to live large does NOT mean the rest of the world lives large like we do. But dont kid yourself, even in North America, there is a big enough movement to where our very own society is ceasing to consume voraciously and couple that to where the ones that DO consume voraciously wont be able to because our personal debt load cant sustain that shyte any longer and before you know it, we in North America WILL start living like my mom did in Greece... Forget EVs, Balthy...we might be buying donkeys... 1. to farm our own lands again and to use as personal transport. 2. probably cheaper to buy, own and maintian a donkey than it is a car. Any car. And yes, Im being sarcastic. But not really. We do have a huge poverty problem in North America and it aint getting smaller or resolved. So by you mentioning the tiny house revolution as a way to mock this, Ill turn it up and make sure that we are aware that North America's poverty problems and personal debt load is severe... A tiny house in 2035 might just BE the norm in North America to go along with that crude 4 000 dollar Chinese EV...

Well.. Consumers wont have a choice... ICE will be banned past 2035... Cry, yell, moan, bitch. Or laugh. ICE is no longer going to be sold past 2035. Oh...your classic V8 car. Yeah...you will be able to own that. Wont be able to daily drive. Probably only on a track or on a "special" 'remember the good 'ole days' day 2 times a year or something...

They really make me nostalgic for the time I was a kid. A lot of the homes of this era were really well built.

Still doesnt change the fact that: 1. American market car sellers are pushing higher priced cars on us 2. We...are continuing to buy higher priced cars and we buy into the useless tech they push on us that inflate the prices. In fact, they dont need to push that shyte down our throats because we are the ones DEMANDING that shyte be sold to us. 3. Cars that we cant afford hence the 84-96 month payment plans and leases we like to do 4. there will come a time when we wont be able to afford none of all that 5. there WILL be SOMEONE to offer lower priced cars eventually, even though NOW we, as American and Canadian consumers, are scoffing at that idea 6. And it WILL be cars that are rudimentary despite the fact the we are currently snubbing that trend and we want uselss shyte in our cars that cost a fortune but the car makers also make money off of our stupidity. 7. Because as a North American society going forward, we are living more and more on debt...and something will give, sometime in the near future. 8. couple that with the banning of ICE...because THAT is our destiny 9. so...there WILL be a BEV that WILL be downgraded in features for our boring daily routine drives. Be it a BEV from China or some other start-up because by the way it looks, GM, FoMoCo, Toyota, VW are only interested in making big bucks off of shyte we really dont need in our cars inflating the price tags...like I mentioned Or...GM, FoMoCo, VW, Toyota will reverse that trend. Maybe we as a society will come to our senses. Or...by having one manufacturer producing one platform and selling it to the many OEMs that want to sell an EV to the masses... (yeah...this argument again) But there WILL be a solution...

^ I was actually addressing your commentary toward ccap41 not owning a MB. And I said 'maybe'. ? And I'm the same way, BTW; what I buy and what I can afford to buy are not really in the same circus tent. But for the MAJORITY of vehicle consumers, I would hazard that's not the case... otherwise I doubt there would be 84- & 96-month payment schedules. While Autoline Daily reports the average new car price in 2020 is "$40K", note that is transaction price, not MSRP price. InsideEVs listed 46 BE and PHEV vehicles on sale in the U.S. in 2019. So I sat and did the math; looked up each models original MSRP (NOT transaction price), and the average 2019 new EV car price was $52K. So yeah; IC cars are expensive at an average transaction price of $40K. And stripped, option-less EVs are even MORE expensive at an average base price of $52K ($60K @ transaction price??)

Time stamped to where I wanna it to be And if you listen to that... you will realize that its NOT just EV vehicles that are expensive for the everyday American, but ICE powered cars too. And THE solution that YOU folk want, well, it might NOT be from GM, Toyota or VW, like I say as well, that an affordable EV will come from traditional big ICE players, but from some start-up that will find and break the code as he says... And it WILL be EV... and THAT is how India WILL be 100% EV by 2030. Here in North America...well We too, might go the way of owning CRUDE cars like the Model T once was... Prices of ICE cars are shooting waaaay up, yet all I hear about in this thread at least, is the cost of BEVs being out of reach and out of touch... We all need a reality check...on all sides from all sides concerning all sides.

See my above post to ykx about cars we like and how it has jack $h! do with owning one. You love a lot of Mercedes vehicles but yet you, yourself, have never owned any of them (at least not that you've mentioned here). What are your excuses? (that last part is rhetorical btw)

Then you should also read about the 12 largest cities in India and then Google image search the city name with "traffic" and educate yourself. Oh and... https://www.livemint.com/news/india/bengaluru-four-other-indian-cities-in-world-s-worst-traffic-list-11580365873632.html In addition, yes cities here have congestion during the rush hours. The difference there is that the traffic flowing through the cities of India are almost always clogged.

Yes, 3 levels plus the basement. The right side is living room, kitchen, dining room, 4 steps up from the front hallway and TV room...the TV room is at the same level as the garage, w/ a sliding door leading to the back patio...I have office space in the corner of the TV room and in one of the bedrooms.

Yes, great garden. I really haven't done much gardening, mostly been planting shrubbery in my back yard. My cookie-cutter 1967 split level---2000 sq ft (+ 750 sq ft finished basement), 4 bedrooms, 2 1/2 bathrooms, 1/4 acre lot, undersized 2 car garage. Wish the garage was bigger, but all in all I've been happy with it the last 4 years I've been here.

Yes; 1970. Coupe is 4700 lbs, 3.90 gears, 11.4 in the quarter mile. I love it because spec-wise it's close to what I'm building, but my car should be 500-600 lbs lighter.

1970 Buick Electra 225 coupe and sedans.

It is not gouging if there will be a person willing to pay that kind of money for this car. It is called demand and supply. I would say gouging is when people sell necessary for livelihood items during shortage, like people were selling masks and hand sanitizer 10-20 times the real price during the beginning of pandemic. Mach 1 is basically a luxury item, not something someone needs to survive.

No assumptions, you said that average income in US is $31k and average car price is $37k. It is not even close to comparison of average income in India and average car price there, especially compared to EV price. Seems pretty straight to me. Also, regarding ICE vehicle price, people forget that pricing in the last few years jumped significantly because active safety became standard, which added a big chunk to the price of the vehicles. And honestly I could care less about what you think is BS or not. I don't think it is deflection because I expect people to put action behind their words, period.