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Yes, and only for extremely high in demand vehicles, because people wouldn't buy the products if they weren't in demand. Which, is still the norm, for the most part. Broncos, Sports, Mach-Es, GT500s, they're all brand new and in incredible demand right now (because the supply is so low).

Who does not, especially coming off Thanksgiving? I love cooking with the wife, so food is always on my mind.

That would be a fine point if it weren't for the fact that dealerships have been doing this for FAR longer than two years. The current environment has nothing to do the decades of overall greed in the form of dealership MAs. Trust me. When all this supply chain nonsense winds down, that practice will not stop.

Random thought: I seem to think about food a lot ...

That wasn't my example. I posted a hypothetical that a Mach-E with a $10 grand M.A. over MSRP is still coming in $6 grand under the Model Y. If the Mach-E is a better vehicle in many metrics (per some reviews), one would still be happy to pay less than a lesser SUV, right? Or to look at it another way; what if Ford is making $10 grand off the Mach-E at the base MSRP of $42.8K? Is Ford "being greedy"? Should it instead be $37.8K?? I'm having difficulty determining where your 'objection line' truly lies.

We are not wrong; we just see it differently than you and disagree with you. While GM even now makes product with questionable decisions, and I will not cover for those either, this thread is focused on Tesla and competition or issues that could destroy or hurt Tesla. Example of what I hate about GM is some of the shortcuts they make on their engine design. Currently is the Tick Tick Tick noise the V8's make on startup till oil is up through everything and then it goes away. I had the Tick Tick Tick on my Escalade till I changed to synthetic, and it went away. GM says this is OK and normal, I disagree, no reason an engine should make noise that go away once oil is flowing. They did not do this in the past and yet now it is acceptable to some, yet not to me. Just another reason I have decided to not buy any ICE auto from GM or any other company but wait it out for EVs. So agree to disagree is where we are at. No Whining but pointing out that Tesla says they are better quality and a luxury auto company and yet you find clear issues of subpar construction. End of Line!

You can agree to disagree all you want. You and Dave are BOTH wrong...

Pickings are razor thin right now. toyoter dealer nearby is down roughly 60% from normal, and half of what's on the lot looks pre-owned / off-brand. If you can wait, I'd recommend it. Or- order one if you want; from discussion with the sales dude, it seems ordered vehicles sidestep M.A. pricing. Look into it, get better pricing and the exact vehicle you want. Just don't expect a sub-MSRP number (but you've indicated you prefer paying MSRP, so that shouldn't be an issue for you).

Common bro... You know damn well that used vehicles at car dealerships are sold as is... NO! A burnt LED taillight is NO indication of shoddy production or crappy QC. ESPECIALLY if one does NOT know what the history of the vehicle in question is all about... https://gmauthority.com/blog/2020/04/youtuber-discusses-c8-corvette-build-quality-issues-video/ From a pro GM website. Yes. Yes. Tesla has issues... Yes we know that. Being a drama queen about a burnt LED taillight is disingenuous. @surreal1272 And no! Me pointing THAT out is not hypocritical of me.