G. David Felt

My own observation is how does an auto company generate additional revenue when the repair side shrinks due to the nearly maintenance free part of an EV? The energy business seems a smart solution for GM to expand into ensuring long term revenue growth that is far more consistent than the auto business selling could provide.

General Motors Ultium Eco system of products and services will be run under the new GM Energy business unit. This covers the following: Ultium Home Ultium Commercial Ultium Charge 360 This is a holistic ecosystem of energy management products and services that will help drive growth beyond the core auto business portfolio. The GM solutions are designed to provide customers with a more seamless and integrated energy management while helping to improve grid resiliency. GM has a growing number of large-scale companies across the U.S. that have signed on to receive energy solutions through the GM Energy portfolio of products and services and collaborate with GM to pilot and develop expanded offerings through the energy ecosystem. GM Energy connected product and service offerings are a cohesive energy management for home, commercial and EV customers. The bi-directional charging with vehicle-to-home (V2H) and vehicle-to-gride (V2G) applications, to stationary storage, solar products, software applications, cloud management tools, microgrid solutions, and more. GM Energy's services will also enable the sale of energy from EV and stationary storage batteries back to utilities during peak, high energy consumption periods, unlocking even more potential value for customers and increasing resiliency for the electrical grid. GM has realized that the Ultium Home solutions might not apply to all and each auto division that includes the home charger is also allowing alternative solutions such as a value amount for using Ultium Charge 360 power for charging versus an installed home 220V charger. "Everybody In" is the moto at GM and this is expanding beyond the traditional auto buyer to include both home and commercial owners of buildings as the way one looks at charging has become a fluid motion of charging and returning power to the home or more importantly grid via access to charging. Be it home, workplace, public or fleet charging, the way one looks at how they use and support the electrical grid is changing. Ultium Charge 360 is so much more than just GM's own charging network as GM has signed agreements with the following seven major charging providers: Blink Charging ChargePoint EV Connect EVgo FLO Greenlots SemaConnect Through the GM vehicle mobil apps, EV customers will be able to see real-time information from nearly 60,000 charging plugs throughout North America allowing for one to find stations along a route, initiate and pay for charging or use the credits on your account to charge your EV. The first GM Ultium Charge 360 sites are live in Washington, California and Florida covering 2,700 fast chargers in cities and suburbs at the end of 2021. Each charge point delivering up to 350 kW of power with an average of four fast chargers per site. New sites as they come online will show up in your vehicle mobile app. GM has already signed several large-scale companies covering the U.S. from coast to coast to provide energy solutions for customers through GM Energy. One of the largest agreements is with Sun Power, one of the nations largest solar technology and energy services providers. Together, Sun Power and GM Energy will continue to develop and offer customers home energy systems which will consist of integrated EV and battery solutions, solar panels and home energy storage. A primary feature of the home energy system is expected to enable drivers to deliver power to their homes with the battery in their compatible EV, designed to give them the ability to power their homes necessities in a blackout or draw from stored energy during peak rate times reducing electric costs. Sunpower will be a preferred installer for the home energy system and offer customers the opportunity to add solar to their homes. The Ultium Home energy solutions will be available for purchase along with the launch of the 2024 Chevrolet Silverado EV in the fall of 2023. GM Energy Ultium Commercial is another area that will roll out services as they come online with various energy providers. Pacific Gas and Electric Company of California has signed an agreement with GM Energy enabling residential customers to have V2H along with bi-directional charger as a backup power for their essential home needs during short-term power outages. A testing subset of customers is now underway and an expanded California offering is to begin at the start of 2023. Another GM Energy agreement is with Con Edison, Graniterock and New Hampshire Electric cooperative (NHEC) that will deliver energy solutions to customers, while also working with GM Energy on advanced future electric offerings. To quote the GM Energy press release: “GM Energy’s mission is to offer customers access to a full suite of energy products and services, including solutions beyond the vehicle, accelerating the seamless transition to an all-electric future,” “With the expansion of our enterprise business through GM Energy and one of the most comprehensive portfolios of energy management products and services available, we will help to reduce the barriers of entry for sustainable power and further accelerate the mass adoption of EVs.” Mark Bole, VP and head of V2X Battery Solutions at GM made the following statement: “The massive scale of GM Energy’s solutions will allow us to better address current challenges with grid infrastructure, energy storage and energy management head on,” “By leveraging GM’s flexible technology platforms and the power of Ultium, we’re able to provide resilient and accessible energy solutions for all customers and the grid, helping to further advance the all-electric future.” More information about GM Energy and the available offerings through Ultium Home, Ultium Commercial and Ultium Charge 360 are available at GM Energy: An Electric Ecosystem, Reimagined View full article

Yes, the are a full auto company, not a luxury only auto company. They compete in all Segments. With the Avereage transaction price of $72,100 for all of 2021 for SUVs/Crossovers. Mercedes is not just a luxury auto company, but a mass market company with their two best products right in the middle competing with everyone else. U.S.: Average new vehicle price by vehicle type | Statista Full Chart shows that Mercedes is a mass market auto company. Welcome to the New Generation.

@smk4565 You already know as you can as well as I can if I wanted to waste any more time post the sales volume of Mercedes-Benz auto's by model from their own reporting page and it shows that MB makes the bulk of their sales and money from the low to middle class of auto sales and as has been posted way too many times, the E-Class Taxis sales across Europe and Asia. As such, Mercedes is a mass auto company that makes some money off selling a luxury product in small quantities and bulk off of mass low to mid level products. They are not a dedicated Luxury only Auto maker. END OF LINE!

Thank you for sharing this information, it gives more credibility if you also input the actual link to the facts, you have pulled together. Let me remind you that you have compared Mercedes to many brands here and in comparing them to Kia/Hyundai, or any other brand that makes them fair game for comparing to all brands. As such, Mercedes is trying to compete not as only a luxury brand but as a mass auto company with their A, B and Especially the poor C-Class of cars. This is reinforced by the fact that they have their truck division with selling commercial Vans and family Vans right alongside the A to S-Class of autos. Then they continue to try to compete against everyone in the mass auto market as they have A to S class SUV/CUVs on the market globally. Luxury is a brand that only is in a narrow niche and exclusive. Mass market is where you cover all levels of playing. There is actually 3 tiers in the Luxury market according to the industry. Accessible Luxury - Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Cadillac, Lincoln, Genesis, etc. Intermediary Luxury - Some of the same auto companies play here due to the luxury product is very exclusive and limited availability. In fact even Chevrolet and Toyota has played in this market with special limited releases of products. Inaccessible Luxury INACCESSIBLE LUXURY - This level is the most exclusive form of luxury. It is highly rare, very expensive, and accessible only by a handful of people. These products, mostly, are hand-crafted or tailored products. They make use of some of the most expensive and premium materials. These Inaccessible Luxury products are distributed through a few carefully selected channels. An Inaccessible Luxury product is all about exclusivity, heritage, craftsmanship, creativity and prestige. A few of the most popular Inaccessible Luxury products are Dior, Ferrari and Hermes as just a few examples. What Type Of Luxury Products Are You Offering - Agence Luxury Based on this, the S-Class is basic Accessible Luxury and Mercedes then plays in the Intermediary Luxury and plays allot in the markets below Luxury. An example of this is how the S-Class and EQS both have their expensive top of the line dash now also available in the E-Class and EQE lines and Mercedes has stated as costs come down they will push it down stream into additional models. As such, Mercedes Plays in the Mass Auto Market.

OK, since you cannot actually site any true sources of saying Mercedes sells the #1 or #2 best luxury sedan, I have done a quick search and the information is very ILLUMINATING! A walk back in time, 2018 The best selling Luxury auto in the U.S. was Tesla, The GLC was the 5th best selling for Mercedes. 10 Best-Selling Luxury Cars and SUVs in America in 2018 (caranddriver.com) Now we will jump to current and here is what TrueCar has to say about the Best Selling Luxury auto, Audi A3 is tagged in #1 place and the best Mercedes could do was 20th place with the CLS. 20 Best Luxury Cars for 2022 - TrueCar Now maybe @smk4565 will point to this one, but unlike the links above based on actual Sales numbers, Forbes does rate the Mercedes S-Class as #1, but #2 is Genesis GV80. Forbes states it is just a notch below the S-Class and far better value. #3 is Volvo S90 and #4 is Mercedes E-Class. In fact Genesis has two autos in the top 10. Best Luxury Cars For 2022 - Forbes Wheels Now if we go by this web site, the Top Luxury autos is even more interesting. The 10 Best Luxury Cars for 2022 (goodcarbadcar.net) They even give a chart which I love. Great info as to why these autos are ranked this way taking both sales, quality, customization, etc. into account. The Might S-Class is ranked 3rd, surprise Genesis in 9th and Cadillac in 10th. So how does Kia/Hyundai and especially Genesis not build a quality product or luxury? @surreal1272 This should be interesting to see what he has to say on this!

#2 selling? What a Joke when it is only averaging 674.666 EQS per month. So what is Mercedes Excuse for not building in large volume to sell more? Kia and Hyundai are building due to parts constraints still far more than Mercedes is, you cannot blow off 38,000 sales by Kia/Hyundai versus 4,048 sales. The bulk of society could care less about the 1% market. Mercedes has ignored the rest of the world population while touting Luxury, building Toyota quality bulk C-class crud autos. Common Sense says Kia/Hyundai is nailing the desires of the market compared to Mercedes. Kia/Hyundai have also announced that they will be moving EV production to the U.S. next year, so as I have stated in other threads, this is the chicken/egg issue of building up production factories for auto production and Cell Production factories. We can review this again at the end of the year, but at this point, Mercedes is on track to sell less than 10,000 EVs in the US in 2022 and Kia/Hyundai are on track to sell over 50,000 EVs.

Some interesting reads, I like what I see for the IONIQ 6 sedan, the EV fighter to the Tesla 3. @oldshurst442 @ccap41 Might just like the car. Review: 2023 Hyundai Ioniq 6 challenges Model 3 in range, revives sedans for the aero age (greencarreports.com) Seems the EV tax credit for U.S. production will bring back more manufacturing jobs as more auto companies want to compete and take advantage of the EV tax credit. Audi May Finally Build Cars In The US Thanks To New EV Tax Credit (insideevs.com) Seems Amazon is going to continue to fund Rivian as they expand with a European plant that will allow trucks, SUVs and Especially delivery vans to be produced. Amazon will spend €1 billion on electric vans and trucks in Europe (electrek.co) @ccap41 This I thought of you about the inconvenience of charging. Good read on an EV road trip. I find it a fair assessment and yes, it is on the west coast, so charging is far easier to find than the mid west. I took a 2,200 mile electric roadtrip with no prep. It was easy. What’s the big deal? (electrek.co) U.S. Military is experimenting with Electricity and GM Ultium is leading the way. Think 55 ton M1 Abrams tank with quiet electric drive? At 55 tons, who cares if you have to add 3 or 4 tons of battery to drive it. LOL ? The US Military Is Buying Ultium Battery Packs From GM Defense - CleanTechnica

Interesting observation that I just learned. Due to parts shortages, Kia and Hyundai are not selling their EV in every state yet in the U.S. The top dozen or so states and those dealerships that have committed to EVs are pretty much getting the bulk for 2022. As capacity comes online Kia and Hyundai will expand selling their EVs across every state. Yet as @smk4565 has stated they have only sold roughly 38,000 EVs YTD compared to Tesla which is hundreds of thousands. Yet Mercedes has not been able to state any of these awards for their EVs and YTD, based on Mercedes own reporting they have only sold 4,048 EQS through the end of Q2 2022. Mercedes-Benz USA Sales - Q2 2022 (mbusa.com) Mercedes EV sales = 4,048 through June. Kia/Hyundai Sales of 38,000 ? Who is making sellable products?

Yes, Chevrolet does when you take into account that the High-Country Suburban is a $92,000 SUV and with local markups due to shortages, they are selling for $100,000. Funny that you say there is no volume there and yet you pretty much have stated that all luxury makers have to have 6 figure autos' to be luxury. IONIQ 5 does have volume, more so than any of the EQ brands from Mercedes. So, you are WRONG there, try the excuses again for your fan boy brand that has not delivered yet. Continue to delude yourself with Mercedes is doing fine. They are FAILING in China the biggest market in the world with pathetic EV product that cannot compete with Tesla. I proved that Tesla with just the Y and 3 being built in China are out selling Mercedes big time. Continue to be a horse with blinders on when the fact is Mercedes your hoping will be able to go all EV by 2030 and Genesis alone will be all EV by 2025. Kia and Hyundai are delivering more EVs per year for both new models and existing sales than Mercedes is. Mercedes makes trucks, just FAILURE at it. They tried to badge engineer a Japanese truck and failed. They build Meh vans that are part of the truck division as is all their SUVs part of the truck division so they can avoid the MPG issues with having the SUVs listed as cars. Remember the X-Class Pickup Badge engineered of the Nissan NP300 Navara Mercedes FAILED in putting body pieces on a mass market truck where Mercedes took the bulk of the truck, powertrain, cabin interior and either put badges over the place of the Nissan or just changed a few parts to give it a somewhat look of Mercedes. Customers realized there was no luxury, no Mercedes and worse yet, it was a Renault platform, far from being a Mercedes. Kinda like how the Supra failed when the fans learned it was not a Toyota built car, but a BMW built car with Toyota sheet metal on the front and back. Sales fell flat and it is a dead product just like the X-Class is a dead failed product. Hyundai/Kia is smart in knowing they will have those that will never go EV till they have no choice and as such have chosen to keep their ICE line up as is. But then they are smart as they have built an EV lineup for both Kia and Hyundai that are attractive, desirable and show it in sales to the public. Genesis is the only place they are keeping the same names but also going pure EV by 2025 so having a GV70 and GV70 electric, from a marketing standpoint one can see when they do convert fully, they can just drop the electric and stick with GV70. End result is Mercedes is Following the market and is slow to change and adapt after their huge failure with Diesel gate.

If Chevrolet can sell $100,000 SUVs, why can't Kia or Hyundai? Bigger question is where is the equal Mercedes to what GM has that is selling? Mercedes is failing big time to compete with Tesla. They are sure failing big time to compete with Toyota, Ford or Chevrolet in the Full size Trucks and SUVs as well as Mid size Trucks.. So before you attack the Korean's, maybe you should be asking the bigger question. WHY DOES MERCEDES FAIL IN COMPETEING IN ALL THE OTHER CLASSES?

Yes, let's compare this to your BOMB of an EQB. Mercedes-Benz EQB China auto sales figures (carsalesbase.com) EQB - Sold 473 in all of China for 2021 EQB - Sold 3,629 YTD in all of China for 2022 Tesla posts record numbers in China by selling 70,602 vehicles locally in Dec 2021 (teslarati.com) Tesla sold 319,102 units in all of China for 2021 Tesla sold 83,135 in September 2022 alone: Tesla sells record China-made vehicles in September following Shanghai factory upgrade (cnbc.com) To base it on Facts, MERCEDES is FAILING to build desirable EVs. The numbers of NEGATIVE Sales rates for 2022 is terrible. Mercedes-Benz Almost Doubled All-Electric Car Sales In Q2 2022 (insideevs.com) So before you say KIA and HYUNDAI cannot compete in the EV space, I would first be asking why MB is FAILING to deliver desirable auto's to the masses. KIA and HYUNDAI are on track to far outsell Mercedes.

Reviews and Comparisons are starting already on the EQB and they are just equal in some areas, failing in others and in the end there are better options out there than the EQB. End result is a fan boy who has to have the badge will buy it, but the general public that is informed will pass on this EV. 2023 Mercedes-Benz EQB vs. 2022 Tesla Model Y Comparison (jdpower.com) 2022 Mercedes-Benz Mercedes-EQ EQB: Choosing the Right Trim - Autotrader 2022 Mercedes-Benz EQB Class vs Genesis GV60, Jaguar I-Pace, Tesla Model Y - The Car Connection 2022 Mercedes-Benz EQB Prices, Reviews, & Pictures | U.S. News (usnews.com) Kia EV6 vs Mercedes-Benz EQB vs Ioniq 5 Price, Specs And Feature Details Comparison | Wapcar

@ccap41 I understand that you could think that Kia/Hyundai are on par with Tesla and that Tesla will have a few more years before someone passes them. Consider this: Kia will be launching 2 new EVs every year starting 2023. They will go from one to three EVs by the end of 2023. EV6 and two others. A car and another SUV is what is expected. They also will have another SUV and Truck in 2024. That will be 5 EVs two Tesla 4, maybe 5 if the Cyber truck truly gets going. Yet, interior and fit n finish have been praised by many over Tesla. Kia presents 2030 roadmap to become global sustainable mobility leader (kiamedia.com) Hyundai has the IONIQ 5 SUV, IONIQ 6 Sedan in both standard and long rang models to compete with Tesla 3. They have stated the IONIQ 7 will be out in 2024 as they focus on the Genesis line with the GV70 EV out end of this year and adding to it with two more models in 2023 and then 2024 will be the final change over as all 2025 Model year Genesis cars and SUVs will be electric. https://www.hyundai.news/eu/articles/press-releases/hyundai-motor-accelerates-electrification-strategy.html That is allot more EVs than Tesla has been able to design, test, ramp up production and bring to market. This is why Tesla days are numbered. As American, Asian and European Legacy auto makers bring capacity online for cell production and auto production. Their experience will ramp faster than Tesla has been able to. Tesla, I suspect will be in the news due to their electric Semi, Roadster, Home roof solar cells and their Powerwall more than their autos by 2025.

It will clearly outsell the Mercedes Blah designs. This is a winner for Honda.

Yes, you nailed it for the EQB. To me, it would seem a half-baked product that is already behind the rest of the market. I just do not get why but have to assume Mercedes does not have the suppliers in place, R&D is not ready yet and as we have learned, their 800V platform will not be out till 2024 when it will make the 2025 models that year. Not sure who, but clearly someone at Mercedes let the ball slip through their fingers and has missed what the rest of the auto industry is already doing. Right now, I would say Kia/Hyundai have surpassed Tesla with their EVs and GM is one to be watched as if they hit everything on time. The online production of battery cells and the various Chevrolet EVs will allow them to ramp fast and possibly lead the industry. Interesting times we live in for sure with the auto industry revolution.

Have to say that this is one of the best write ups I have seen on a state-by-state ability to see what your state tax credit is for EVs. Every electric vehicle tax credit rebate available, by state (electrek.co)

Yes the Kent IKEA is still there, none in the north end. I agree with you, hate the maze, hate the cheap stuff they sell, was not willing to wait in a long line to try the food, so who knows if I would like it. Over all, my son likes IKEA and I think it is because it is cheap. I would say Acura took till 2022 to fix their issues with the RDX and MDX. My sister inlaw, wifes sister has a 2019 of each. She drives the MDX and her husband drives the RDX. Both have had all types of electrical issues, water leak issues and drivability issues that took till this year to resolve. Both are retired and on a fixed income now otherwise they say they would trade them in on something else, not an Acura. Maybe they are just unlucky, but I will say that I think Acura built a name and then went cheap to maximize profits from the line.

First of all, 800V is well supported for those fast chargers and EVs that support it as they do charge in a fraction of the time and weight less than a 400V system. Yes, 800V costs more now, but like all things, economy of scale brings it down. GM, Porsche, VW, Audi and BMW have all acknowledge it as well as Kia and Hyundai and why Honda went with the Ultium 800V system for their EVs. The reason the Equinox will start around $30,000 is due to the mass production bringing costs down. As far as Charging at home, yes if you're only going CHEAP with 110V charging, you will be lucky to pull down 10kWh charging. If you have a proper 220V charger installed, they are 50 AMPs and do charge much, much faster. Yes, there are 220V 38/40 AMP chargers, but the ones from the OEMs as well as ChargePoint that are sold or included are all 220V 50 AMP chargers. Even Amazon sells them, but you get what you pay for. This is in its infancy and so nothing is perfect yet, but we have specs to get there and those that do invest get out of it what they expected. Those that go cheap, well, your mileage will vary.

From researching the website for IKEA, it seems this is part of their family events and one has to register to be a part of the family to take advantage of the event. IKEA Family – Join our club for free - IKEA Seems they imply that free certain foods, drinks and events will be available for Family members only and you must join their free family member program to take advantage. IKEA U.S. introduces new IKEA Family benefits - IKEA I could be wrong, but that is the take I get on the IKEA Smorgasboard events.

Just found the most current 800V paper on why all EVs should be on this and why the Auto industry has committed to having all EVs on 800V platforms by 2025 globally. Paper was published Dec 15th, 2020 but is the bases of what the auto industry is building too. 800-V Electric Vehicle Powertrains: Review and Analysis of Benefits, Challenges, and Future Trends | IEEE Journals & Magazine | IEEE Xplore

Good read for those interested in why 800V EVs are desired over a 400V system and to better understand the difference. Why 800V High Voltage System makes more sense for EVs? - Wheels On Roll I also posted this in the thread below as I did not realize till today that Mercedes is the only German auto company NOT on an 800V system, but a 400V system. I could not recommend a Mercedes EV at this time. It will be 2024 before they have a new platform that supports 800V and probably has the parts lined up that are needed.

Excellent read on the pros and cons of an 800V system. Why 800V High Voltage System makes more sense for EVs? - Wheels On Roll After reading this, it tends to imply that an auto company that is not building 800V EVs is due to NOT having the required components in place for production due to the need for higher quality SIC and GaN MOSFET inverters. Why 800V High Voltage System makes more sense for EVs? - Wheels On Roll

After reading the insideev review of the EQS SUV, I would have to tell people to hold off on buying a Mercedes and if they wanted an EV now, buy Kia, Hyundai, Ford, Audi, VW, Porsche or BMW if they want a full 800V charging system. Yes GM is also in the system, but at this time only the GMC Hummer is 800V and not readily available. BOLT is a 350V system equal to Tesla. This makes me wonder if the Chevrolet Equinox will replace the BOLT or if Chevrolet will go with a BOLT on the Ultium platform down the road. ?