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oldshurst442
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Everything posted by oldshurst442
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Don Cherry, had 180 000 votes in just 2 days... I dont know how many he has now. Franky I dont care, but... Remember this from a smaller country. Granted, Canadians are probably more passionate about hockey than there are passionate Mustang purists around. But still...1700 does seem miniscule. -
About a Corvette SUV, EV or otherwise? I do not think that Corvette engineers and Corvette marketing is ready for a Corvette SUV anytime soon. There has been some people that are intrigued by a Corvette SUV...but that is where it ends. At least until Tadge is no longer the chief Corvette engineer... But even with the Mustang naming fake outrage... Tadge even says it for the Corvette: The Mustang 2 door V8 powered coupe is still with us with special editions coming out. In fact, the GT500 with close to 800 horsepower just got revealed too. So that argument falls apart. The Mustang is still sold and NOT going anywhere...
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Nope. Porsche ENGINEERS realized that driving pleasure was lost. Porsche ENGINEERS realized that folk, NOT JUST PURISTS, want to experience the pleasure and joy of what Porsche cars were all about. Porsche ENGINEERS realized that its NOT all about big horsepower and epic performance numbers... https://www.wired.com/2015/05/porsche-calls-end-horsepower-war/ They are planning to tone the horsepower down as well in the future. Keep on improving the 911 with numbers, but also keep a balanced 911 with less HP, less weight for the joys of driving. I got but one link. I am too lazy to search up others, but I did read that awhile ago what Porsche wants to do with their future 911. And this article was from 2015...
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THAT right there, is me!!! Im happy for mid-engined. Im sad for front engine going away. Im super excited for the performance unlocking so Corvette (and America) could REALLY kick some Ferrari, Porsche, McLaren, Lamborghini, Pagani, (European) ass. (The Ford GT40 was only in racing and not in street car form) and Ford GT (this generation) is just another high dollar, low volume (ho-hum?) garage queen. (what I mean by Ho-Hum could be explained...maybe on an another thread) But at the same time, I love how iconic the "classic" front (mid)engined, high horsepower big V8 Vette has become. And I hope Chevrolet re-visits that in the future. The Corvette was also a GREAT GT car. A "proper" V8 front engined bruiser of a cruiser GT car. And now, that is gone. THAT is why I say that Corvette needs SEVERAL models to properly compete with ANY European brand one on one. To have a model for EVERY model that Ferrari or Porsche has in their respective stables. As is, well from the C7 and down, the Corvette had to do battle with a Boxter, Cayman, 911, 928, 918, Ferrari 488, Superfast, Laferrari....you get the idea Now with the C8, at least its mid-engined and the Z06 and Zora ZR-1 and the Z-51 (all the same car mind you) could handle all that without any of the Corvette hatin' BS from Europe (understandable) but from the USA too (like WTF is up with that???!!!)... Disclaimer: almost a model for every Ferrari and/or Porsche model...as many models as Corvette/Chevy/GM can handle to build and sell successfully at a profit without diminishing the brand... hey if that means only one model...OK
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Oh yes it is... Choose to ignore, because you want to be right at all costs... Choose to defend triggered folk because you want to cry about how naming this EV a Mustang is a bad thing... @Robert Hall said, only time will tell if naming this EV a Mustang is a bad thing. And even then, if it fails in the market place, it may have NOTHING to do with its name. The Oldsmobile Intrigue, would it have sold better if it kept the Cutlass Supreme name? All those things...are just noise... Point being, triggered folk complain about everything. But you wanted to ignore that message and went another way... About how the products improved. How about actually arguing the REAL points and cut the BS???!!! Point is, people whine about everything, and you know what? LIFE GOES ON ANYWAY!!! THAT WAS THE POINT!!! Just because an EV is called a Mustang does NOTHING to hurt ANYTHING... Their beloved 2 door V8 powered sports coupe is STILL on sale...therefore...just noise. That right there is something to think about, ykX...
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BAH... Purists are always pissed about something... Corvette purists are pissed that the Corvette is now mid-engined... Porsche purists are STILL pissed that air cooled 911s are long gone... Hockey purists are pissed because the game of hockey is now actually played on the ice instead of having WWE style battle royales happen on every other night. Baseball purists are still pissed because of the designated hitter rule in the American League... Phoqu'em!!!
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Not a good sign because ANYBODY can get triggered over ANYTHING and start a petition over nothing as it seems. example: https://www.change.org/p/the-walt-disney-company-have-disney-strike-star-wars-episode-viii-from-the-official-canon Even THAT is not a good sign. https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/don-cherry-comeback-petition Don Cherry, if you know who that is, or even care, got fired for words said... People got triggered. He got fired. Fake backlash or not...the consensus is that he does not represent Canada or Canadians in any way , so he got fired...will continue to be fired never to air on Hockey Night in Canada ever again...so... Immediately after his firing 180 000 people signed a petition to get him re-hired. More signatures and yelling and more people triggered for his firing than what he supposedly said was racist that triggered those people that wanted him fired... But does 180 000 signatures really indicate if Canadians really gives a shyte if he stays on ranting about hockey on Hockey Night in Canada or not? Same with this Mustang named EV and the folk that are triggered by its naming. When Ford wanted to cancel the Mustang and bring it on as a FWD sporty car, THAT backlash was real, because that meant that a RWD Mustang with a V8 could NEVER be had again. Same with the Porsche 911. When Porsche was tinkering on with the idea that the 928, a V8 powered front engined GT car would probably replace the 911, fans of the 911 got angry as they too, could never buy a boxer 6 cylinder rear mounted sports car from Porsche. THAT is what the BIG DIFFERENCE is here. A RWD V8 coupe and convertible sports car could STILL be bought called the Mustang... Its just that the Mustang now also has a stable mate that rides higher, has 4 doors, has AWD and is electric... This "outrage" for an EV named Mustang is...really just noise. It will dissipate. Like the "outrage" when Porsche went from air cooled to water cooled. Like when Corvette ditched its pop-up headlights and went from round tail lights to "Camaro" tail lights. Like when Dodge made the Charger into a 4 door. Like when Ford decided to have a turbocharged V6 as its top engine choice rather than a V8 in their bread and butter F-150, keeping in mind that the V8 is STILL offered. Yeah, the Mustang RWD coupe that now has 3 engine choices is still around. And when the RWD 2 door coupe Mustang will eventually go all electric, there will be backlash on that too. But that one is a tad more touchy than actually having a 4 door SUV stablemate be called Mustang. But then again, by that time, people will have been accustomed to an all electric Mustang... Be it an SUV or a 2 door coupe...
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Adam Carolla is good too. He had some sort of car show in the same vein as Top Gear a while back that I enjoyed. Ive seen some documentaries he did as well. He had a few voice over narration documentaries on American car history including the Paul Newman one. I like Jerry Seinfeld. I saw all the Crackle Comedians in Cars getting Coffee, but I havent yet seen the Netflix ones. Jerry's comedy is funny. I like his observations and his comedic approach to it. Top Gear... I enjoyed the original trio, but sometimes I did not. I enjoyed the sarcasm and the purposeful making fun of the ethnic cultures that they made fun of, including when they made fun of Americana. Hey, they poked fun at British stiff upper lippness too... But what I did not like, is when they, mostly Jeremy, blurred the lines of sarcasm, jokes and entertainment value and passed it on as facts. And he did that when Top Gear was "seriously" reviewing American cars. Cadillacs and Corvettes mainly. Lots of disinformation that was passed on as facts while stereotyping American cars are crap... The American Top Gear and the British Top Gear that replaced the original guys are not that bad. Matt Leblanc and Chris Harris do a good job. The American version just tries to copy the original Top Gear formula and it does not work. It aint bad, but it falls flat. And I know that both Top Gears now have other hosts. But I dont watch those as often anymore.
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I get you. And yes, I see what you are sayin' and I agree with it. My choice of words, whether worded wrong or right, I did not realize the impact it might have. And yes, I have formed that theme and bias. I like muscle car type cars. I like performance oriented cars. I like automotive rivalries and what cars come out of that rivalry. I usually like how cars have evolved as a product in their own environment. Skylines, to me, are muscle car like. Originally, the cars were normal cars that were stuffed with higher performance engines in them creating a faster car. And over the years and decades, we got what we have today. So I like Skylines. Any car stuffed with a big V8 where normally a smaller engine resides, I like. The AMG Hammer in the late 80s and more often than not, the modern AMG V8 cars, I enjoy those. I like Ford GT40 versus Ferrari 250s. I like Lamborghinis versus Ferraris. I like Chevy versus Ford versus Dodge. And if you have the patience to read my posts, you will clearly see what cars I usually have passion for.
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no, bro. He was questioning that statement, and I, in kind, because I respect him, decided to explain to him what I am all about. I opened up my heart to him. He deserves that from me. This forum deserves that from me. And I, after opening up my heart to you guys, deserve a reciprocation of love, back. ?
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The Jalopnik link makes a mistake in expressing an opinion that GM/Chevy had Tesla in their sites. Had Tesla products as a benchmark... The only thing I gather Chevy/GM had on benchmarking Telsa was the price point in which the Bolt was to be sold at as compared to the Model 3. From the EV1, all the way to Volt gen 1 and 2, the Cadillac ELR, and then the Bolt to the mild hybrid stuff on Malibus and Tahoes, nothing suggests that GM ever wanted to do performance oriented EVs. And GM could do a performance oriented EV if they chose to do so. They took a different market approach. Tesla has found that sweet spot. It does not mean that GM's approach is wrong vis-a-vis Tesla's approach. It just means that GM's approach and its choice of its product's packaging may be at fault... The Cadillac ELR was a 2 door personal luxury coupe econobox with an econobox derived Chevrolet version of its EV. And it also used the Chevrolet Volt's 1st generation tech instead of the 2nd generation tech, in an era when small, 2 door coupes dont sell. In an era when SUVs sell like mad. In an era when Tesla and Fisker were selling sexy body styled sedans and the Tesla was and still is eons ahead in marketing, styling and dare I say in EV technology in some key tech areas... The Bolt does not fail as an EV product. It fails on its intended mission as an EV product. Not in terms of it not being a capable EV, but it failing of it not being capable of delivering the marketing message that its supposedly sold upon. Packaging. And also, GM does not put full faith in that marketing message either...and so the marketing is also downplayed... The Mustang Mach-E will only eat its lunch if EV buyers buy into a 1. Mustang EV 2. A Ford EV capable of being a good Tesla product equal I think point 1 wont be a problem. But point 2 might very well be. Some EV people have a strong bias against ICE makers and will NEVER take Ford, GM, VW, Nissan, etc, seriously and the Mach-E, as good as it seems on paper, does not have a chance and is DOA...
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LOL Listen. American cars is what I love. From the 1900s to today. But I'd like to try and learn about cars from different countries and from their different eras too. Car craziness and car culture is strong in America, but it aint strictly an American thing. The automobile has defined America and its culture and we revolve our modern lives around it more than any other culture, but there is a car culture elsewhere other than North America. And if it wasnt for 2 devastating world wars in Europe where the automobile was starting to get a grip on life here as well as in Europe, the automobile in Europe would have had the same influence as in America. But like everything else in nature, the environment influences the surroundings and the same entity evolves differently and at a different pace as the next. I love to learn about different car cultures around the globe and how the car has influenced that society and how it evolved differently from ours. And from all that, I learned that car enthusiasts around the world are the same, but have a different take on the performance car than what we have. And from an enthusiast point of view, for which I am, I enjoy enthusiast cars. And I want to appreciate that. I have learned that I actually do enjoy European racing cars of the 1920s and 1930s. Or the rivalry that Ferruccio had with Enzo that produced those slick Italian cars of the 1960s and 1970s from both companies. I enjoy the French quirkiness and I enjoy an Alpina race to which Renault paid a tribute to just a couple of years ago, kinda like what Ford did with the Ford GT in 2005. I actually like that Renault/Alpina. Its a cool little sports car. The Japanese car culture thing is whack. Most of it just seems weird to me. But I definitely like the American influence on their sports cars (which also had a slight Euro touch to them too) which in turn begat a pure Japanese sports car scene. I get the question marks. I do not like the shyteboxes that Europe has produced. But then again, I dont like the shyteboxes that Detroit has produced over the years also. But, I do prefer Detroit shyte over Europe's though. And I feel like what Jay Leno has over other car "influencers" is that he has a certain bias towards cars that I find interesting and I gravitate towards his influence over others.
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@Drew Dowdell Imma gonna serenade you. I hope the best for you. Good luck!
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As the years go by, I try to model my car enthusiasm as his. I try to like all cars, brands, makes, from all countries from all eras. Some comedians may not like him... and think the opposite of what you just said...The Tonight Show fiascos, but both times may not have been 100% his fault. Anyway, this is a car forum, and as a car guy, he is tops in my book. BTW: I have always been a David Letterman guy going back to the mid 80s, and I prefer Conan over Jay as well, but as a comedian and a Late Night Talk Show host, Jay is definitely in his element and just might have been the better candidate to replace Johnny... Nobody beats Johnny, but Jay was the right person for that job at that point in time... Letterman was the better 12:35 guy. He lost his edge by NOT being edgy at the CBS 11:30 show because of that 11:30 crowd. Conan is just silly. Funny. But silly. Smart. Probably the smartest comedian. He is better off doing his own thing on his own show. The Tonight Show was not his thing. Wrong crowd for him.
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I already saw it!! 3 times. Last night at midnight Eastern time being the first time! Jay Leno's Garage! I just dont miss that many episodes. On CNBC or on youtube. But thanx for the peace offering. Ill find you one sometime soon as well. ?
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From the Jalopnik link In all fairness, Ford had an additional 3 years to launch a Tesla fighting product. In all fairness, GM beat Tesla to the market by offering a more or less affordable BEV BEFORE Tesla launched the Model 3. In all fairness though to Tesla, the Model 3 is just THAT much better of an EV product than the Bolt. In all fairness to Ford, GM rushed the Bolt to be first to the market in thinking they got this. And it would be a good product, but Tesla is THAT much AHEAD of its competition. The Model S is a product from 2012. The year that the Focus EV came out in multiple markets... Its just that the Model S and Tesla is THAT far ahead of everybody else... Porsche came up a tad short too... In all fairness to GM, Tesla is performance oriented. The Bolt is average Joe oriented. The Mustang Mach-E and the Porsche and the Audi and the Jag are all performance oriented. The Ford product comes the closet in being a Telsa killer. The Bolt...is just on another market level. The Bolt is NOT about performance. The Bolt is about urban city driving. It fails NOT because its not a performance oriented product. It fails because it fails as an urban city product... Had it had nicer lines and better interior room, it fair better. But then again, maybe the EV market for now IS performance oriented, and the Mustang Mach-E does NOT disappoint. I had high hopes for the Porsche Taycan, and it being a Porsche, I thought it slaughter the Model S...a 7 year older model. It does not. To boot, the Plaid handling version as a test mule looks to spank the Porsche on its own turf as well, on the 'Ring... NOT a good thing for the Taycan...
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Good product. But...why do I sense that you would NEVER give a Ford product a try? I guess its better that shytting on Tesla too... I...am an American car guy. Whether its a GM product, a Ford product, a Chrysler product and now...finally, after a long time....a FORTH American car company, Tesla. I do skew in favour of General Motors, lately, Im not so hot on GM. I aint so hot on Ford either. I am a closet Mopar guy. I have come out, but I still feel uneasy about it in public for whatever reason. I mean, I flaunt Hellcat colours all day everyday. I did not want Viper to go away. I cry at the state of Chrysler cars because quite frankly, there are ANY Chrysler cars...
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Thanx for the correction. I googled and it turns out that it sold in selective markets. I do not know if the Focus EV was sold in Quebec. I did not know this car existed. Hence my misrepresentation... I did not mean it and I certainly dont shill... However... If you are gonna correct me, please do not do it with trying to prove some sort of GM supremacy in mind... I do want correct information to come through, but not as a shill exercise for your favorite brand... From the same post... 2022 or 2023? Shyte dude...that is still 3/4 years away... Cadillac's BEV in 2022/2023 BETTER be a thousand times more advanced than this Ford Mach-E and better be on par with Tesla's offerings in 2022/2023... If it aint....it will only be as good as a Jaguar iPace which is NOT GOOD ENOUGH... 2022/2023... This is the same stupid argument I endured over at Motor Trend Forums when Mustang/Camaro guys would troll each other: "Of course this generation Camaro/Mustang (you could replace the pony cars with Silverado and the F-150 and add the Ram) beat it this time around, the Mustang/Camaro that lost is on the old platform...wait until the next generation comes..." 2022/2023 Shyte dude! And yes, the Bolt is a good seller for what it is and what sales EVs are to have that are NOT Tesla... And yes, the Bolt is a good effort BEV, but it aint a Tesla both in terms of brand recognition and in terms of EV friendly as how you get with Tesla product EVs... You could argue GM's build quality is eons ahead of Tesla's, but that argument could go either way, depending on who you talk to... The C8 aint even out yet and GM haters are already calling it American junk... So there is that... Point being, dont shove a GM BEV argument when there isnt an equivalent GM BEV product around...
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Ive read that its an all new skateboard platform from the ground up engineered to be an EV like a Tesla product. Has Rivian played a part in this? I doubt it as Ford just partnered up with Rivian and this Mach-E seems to be an effort to be older than the partnership itself. Just my guess though. Maybe Ford did accelerate this project with the help from Rivian.
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I remember that too. Hell, its not even unique to the American automobile market. There is a vocal shytefest with some Toyota fanbois too on the new Supra. These internet keyboard warriors say that its not a "real" Toyota because its a BMW chassis and a BMW inline 6 ignoring all the while that the new Supra is a very capable handler with a very capable inline 6 that could easily make 1000 HP without exploding. The Mark IV Supra was not a good driver's car. It was a clumsy muscle car when it made 1000 horsepower. To which is an antithesis of what Japanese sports cars are supposed to be and the new Supra does what a new Supra is supposed to do...which is to be an antithesis of a muscle car. Weird phoquing hatred. From Star Wars to the Supra to the Mach-E...
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Im a social butterfly. Some people like that. Some people dont. I tend to be sarcastic in real life, but I have to tone it down because of the job I do. Not a good business strategy. But...being a social butterfly helps with the business, so...that would be my Ying to my Yang. The balance to the force.
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What @Robert Hall said about it being a marketing move. Let's face it, selling products, all products, any products, need marketing to be sold. Marketing tends to busllshyte people into believing into something that they feel good about to buy said product. Mustang is a good start to start peddling a performance oriented product from Ford. @ykX You mentioned Mach...and THAT would be good start. Better than Mustang. you said. Mach (not talking about the ratio of speed of an object in relation to the speed of sound), which is a FANTASTIC name in itself, but Mach IS a version of a Mustang to begin with. THAT, at least in my eyes, wouldnt make sense. Id be saying things like,: "is this EV a Mustang or is it NOT a Mustang?" Because Mach to me is...a Mustang. So...as you could see, picking a name is highly emotional. And its important for brand recognition. A name NEEDS to bring out emotions in people. Let us be thankful that Ford did not choose to call it a Model T or a Model A. Referencing their past in that way. Not that Model T is a bad name, but it does not invoke any passion, even if the Model T was voted as the car of the century. Tesla Model S,3,X and Y spells out sexy... By themselves, S or 3 or X or Y...is cold. Like BMW 3xx or Cadillac CTx...but in the grand scheme of things, Elon invokes emotion with that naming scheme... Mustang Mach-E. Its got this car forum talking...and THAT is a good way to start selling this EV in my opinion. PS: Definitely time will tell if it was a dumb move to call it Mustang or a genius move!
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That was what I wanted to convey. Plus, internet trolls troll to get reactions... I must learn to condense my thoughts. LOL. Nah! I like and enjoy writing up, as many of you like to say, novels for posts! Its what makes me...me.
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The interwebs? To get feels about how society feels? Ha ha ha! Now THAT is a good one. The interwebs, or as I like to call them, the internets, is a world wide web full of angry people. And its the perfect cauldron of hate for people to hate on things. Its in human nature to complain. Humans in the summer complain that its too hot. In the winter they complain its too cold. And you would think that in the Spring or Fall, humans would cease to complain. But nope, they complain that summer cant come fast enough or there is too much rain in the forecast or they have to rake the bloody leaves... and this medium that connects us all makes it easier to...bitch. But, humans are also easily pleased. But, its in human nature NOT to advertise what makes us happy. We just smile and move on. Star Wars. Star Wars is dead according to the internets. From waaaaay back to the Prequels. Now, a new voice has risen that Star Wars is....dead again. Granted, we will see come Dec. 20 to see if that prediction is true. But I think its just a vocal minority bitching. The C8 Corvette. I went on many sites and youtube videos to see "reactions" by my fellow man. Although the ones in favour of the C8 does surpass the ones that do not like the C8 for various reasons, the ratio seems to be closer than what I let on a few weeks ago when I posted a thought on the C8. And the people hatin' on the C8, if we went with that as a popular vote on the status for the C8, it would be like what you saw with the Mustang Mach-E... But, I wouldnt put to much faith into that... Internet trolls exist. And they exist for many reasons. And THAT is why you cannot base your opinion on the internets.
