oldshurst442

Ill give the plus one. PS: Practically the ONLY SUV I ever want to own is the original SUV. The Wrangler. But I must say, the Wrangler pick-up absolutely does NOTHING for me. Maybe you say to me that its because I do not like pick-up trucks either to which Ill tell you nah, that is not it. The Wrangler pick-up is just....too funky for me.

Im not anti-French cars per se either. If I lived in Europe (Greece), Id probably consider a French car. But most probably a Suzuki or a Honda product (as a Canadian moving to Greece to live). But if I was born in Greece and lived there all my life, Id probably be like most Greeks and buy German.... Im excited for this merger, only because Im fed up of having the Germans phoque over Chryco and now the Italians. Im excited to maybe see the French might do justice to Chrysler and Dodge. We will see I guess. I had high hopes for the Fiat group, especially when Sergio gave the greenlight to start up the Viper program after it was canceled due to the bankruptcy but it was all for nothing. I dont mean the Viper going away again. I understand that monies were needed elsewhere other than a very niche and boutique, hand made sports car. But I didn't expect for all the monies to go to dead man walking brands either only to skin Chrysler alive and barely give Dodge anything. They stripped Dodge of the Ram too. Good move? Well it did not hurt Ram sales at all. And it didnt hurt Dodge either for the short term. Maybe its because we all know that even if Ram is its own brand, its still Dodge... I dont think PSA is hurting as much as Fiat was. Maybe that is a good thing for Chryco going forward. But like DeLorenzo says. Its a GIANT "we will see".

Yeah Yeah Yeah!!! I also like to link youtube vids and /or GIFs I never said the C7 is ho-hum. However...all other Chevy products are on the same level as Toyota...YIKES!!! Now, the way you are defending Chevy, I KNOW you know it to be true. Its OK...I feel your pain.

Its not a good engine. It pollutes. Sure. Its reliable. It pollutes. Electric motors. Run longer than that...

Diesels are killing themselves. That dude that dont want to let go of his VW Diesel? He prolly wears out his boxer shorts and his socks to the point of disintegration.

The irony if it be these to clean up the mess:

I did say that Chevrolet is ho-hum at the moment. Corvette not with standing. There are no products at Chevy that instill excitement when people go visit the Chevy store to look at the Corvette, any Corvette, C7 or C8 and then leave with a purchase because Corvette is the halo car.... All the CUVs are meh at Chevy with the exemption of the Blazer. And in this here forum, the Blazer was ill received.... Too expensive, wrong wheel drive...(maybe some folk in this forum even complained about its interior...) I for one actually like the Blazer. (I HATE CUVs) For a CUV, its got excitement going on...for me. Where is Chevy's answer to the Raptor? Chevy also needs an SUV version of a Raptor. Where is the Avalanche if Chevy does not want to do a full blown SUV... Because an Equinox and a Trax are just about as dull as they get. They are as interesting as Toyota products... The Tahoe. Its a big ride. I guess that makes it cool. But it too has become such a drab ride. Too many soccer moms have bought it in the past and continue to buy it that for me at least, it has lost that "je ne sais quoi" about it. I was always a car guy, but back in the day, I saw plenty of K5s like this one and that ride ALWAYS made me turn my head... Now I see a Tahoe, and its almost like in this photo Two millennial do-gooders, that want to have the look of ruggedness, but are afraid to get their hands dirty. They wear their off-roading boots, but are afraid to step in a puddle... They load up their dogs, and take them to the dog park, instead of taking them up north to some sort of hiking trail in the Laurentians. To boot, too cheap to buy the GMC Denali or Escalade... And yes I see that. Gasoline prices are sky high in Quebec so Tahoes are bought buy well off people. I also see that with the Escalade. Prissy soccer moms with French Manicured nails with faux fur, because real fur is passé, but at least with the Escalade, its a Cadillac. Cadillac and elitism go hand in hand. This Tahoe down below... *YAWN!!!* At least the one above is red... The Camaro Im afraid is gonna die. No news on a new gen. Unless GM is playing coy and the new generation will be all electric? That is why I said Chevy is ho-hum. There was never a Cruze Z-24 or Cruze SS, but it dont matter now, Cruze is dead. Impala. Dead. Malibu? Unfortunately, it has a personality that bores people to death. Even the Camry git some aggressiveness going on lately. The Accord still offers a 6 cylinder. The Fusion? A 2.7 liter ecoboosted V6 with 325 HP and 380 ft.lbs of torque. It aint an ST model, The Fusion Sport is not an Audi S4 competitor, more like a regular V6 automobile, so the AWD on it is just a Joe Shmo affair, but 325 HP and 380 ft.lbs non the less. The Edge offers that powertrain too... The Blazer does not. The Taurus still has an SHO. The Impala...no.

I understand that PSA makes money on small cars. I also LOVED that @smk4565 pointed that out to us. But small cars sell in Europe. Small cars dont sell too well in North America. I said it before and Ill say it again, for most North Americans, French cars means nothing to them. Peugeot or Citroen dont have a chance in North America. But what may end up happening, what SHOULD be happening is Chrysler could use those platforms and French panache so Chrysler could sell cars here. And/or Dodge. SMK has another thing right. Survival of the fittest is absolutely correct. Balthy is correct too. Fiat and Lancia WILL die. Here and in Europe. Maybe Fiat survives in Europe. Alfa Romeo does not though. It aint selling here. It aint selling in Europe. Alfa is gone. Chrysler and Dodge. It will come down to marketing and having the right products to sell with that marketing... Muscle cars. Is that a dying breed? Many say that Dodge cannot keep these up... Who knows? I say muscle cars will NEVER die. There is still a helluva lot of North Americans that love their muscle cars. And Dodge seems to KNOW how the build them and sell them. I say Dodge stays BY building muscle cars. As long as Dodge stays true to itself, Dodge is good! Chrysler is a toughie. What does Chrysler do to have a loyal clientele that is different from all the other ho-hum brands out there in North America? Chevrolet is one of those ho-hum brands at the moment. So is Buick. Toyota. Nissan. Acura. Hell, even BMW... Chrysler does have a chance to survive here as the North American car market is BORING. Chrysler ALWAYS seems to give us products that move us emotionally. THAT is what they need again. And the French could compliment Auburn Hills together to give us that certain Je ne sais quoi that the North American car market so desperately needs right about now... And like I said, that would NOT be for Peugeot or Citroen, but for Chrysler.

Looks are subjective. But because Tesla sells the amount they sell, their styling DOES resonate with the people. And THAT would be WORLDWIDE... As we know, for the most part, ugly cars do not sell. Tesla cars sell well. WORLDWIDE over Tesla cars are the most sold EVs. Ugly or not, THAT by definition makes Tesla style have Tesla mojo. In other words, Tesla has its own style and people gravitate towards it. And Tesla having its own style doing things its own way having its own mojo is a very good thing when it comes to BRANDING... Kleenex, Vaseline, Coke, Scotch Tape, Fridgidaire, Crock-Pot, Jet-Ski, Bubble Wrap, Google, Xerox, Amazon... The Tesla brand is fast becoming that kind of brand...if it aint already there... And the Model 3's minimalist approach to its interior (and that is how the Tesla Model S' interior will be too on its next refresh that will be soon enough) is well received by many that buy the Tesla 3. In fact, its a selling point. And a very successful selling point at that. You and I dont like it. But these EV peeps seem to adore it. Plus, you cant argue, Tesla has a very very good product to sale you. It aint all marketing bullshyte and fad of the day internet sensation... The EV technology that Tesla sells you is quite possibly the best there is out there... Plus its charging network that helps with the branding... I know you were NOT the one chastising me for dissing Ferrari VS Ford movie by saying that I dont want to see bullshyte American flag waving nonsense in the movie... but Ill tell you one thing, and others that hate on Tesla... AND ILL DO THE AMERICAN FLAG WAVING HERE. WHICH IS RIGHTFULLY DESERVED IN THIS CASE!!! TESLA IS AMERICAN!!! AN AMERICAN CAR COMPANY THAT IS COVETED ALL AROUND THE WORLD. BE PHOQUING PROUD!!! WHAT THE HELL IS THE MATTER YOU FOLK???!!! THESE ARE THE TIMES WHEN YOU SAY: AMERICA! PHOQUE YEAH!!!

Me too!!! Although Im gravitating to the cleaner design of the Z51. But we obviously do not know how it will really look... Its been awhile since I have preferred the Z51 or (base) styling of the Corvette over its higher performance versions. The C1...its the 1958 version I prefer with all that chrome on the deck lid and the louvers on the hood. Yeah. I like all that excess. The C2, its the 427 1967 coupe that I prefer with the hood scoop and the side pipes. The C3, the 427 1969 with the side pipes...and bulge in the hood. The C4 is just about the only Vette where I prefer the 1984 base version over any other C4. And the base 1986 convertible. OK...the 1989 Callaway Speedster would be my favorite C4 but a Callaway is not really factory...so that does not count... The C5 would be the Z06 coupe. Yeah, Im just about a rare breed that prefers not to have that glass hatch on the C5. In Millennium Yellow of course. The C6 would be the Z06 and a close second the ZR1 looks over the base C6. In Yellow of course. The ZR1 would be in blue. The C7 would be the Z06 with the Z07 package that I prefer. In yellow of course.

"Toyoter" is not mine....its Balthy's. I wish I could have thought of it....but its his! I appreciate your input about the Corvette. And I knew all that. Now...I aint being condescending about you correcting me. I knew what I wrote was not accurate. And I do not mind you pointing it out that I was wrong. I was exaggerating...to prove a point. And what point is that? That point that you stated!!! I should not have mentioned the C4...but even then, the C4 to the C7, the design and layout of the platform's have not changed. And that is what I wanted to convey. it just came out wrong. But yeah! I like that you and I are on the same page!!!

^^^ At least it looks like a normal CUV. Will it be a success? Who knows? Tesla it seems are the only EVs that seem to resonate with the majority of the people. EV and non EV people. Non EV people it seems are not exactly lit up on fire with adopting and adapting to EVs just yet. Maybe this Mach-E well get non-EV people to look at EVs... because Im sure EV people will not look at this ride. The Tesla Model Y is their God send.

I used to think this way too. I guess reading too many car magazines back in the day made me adapt to their idiotic biases. I know now why they critically devalued an older model versus a newer model in their head to head comparisons...all because of fake automotive journalistic bias to sell more magazines... to idiots like me. I never understood why a certain model that was very good 2 years prior was now criticized and more importantly, FROWNED upon just because a new competitor had a new model out. But these magazines sure had me hook, line and sinker. And that kind of idiocy arose in the car forums that I posted in later on in life and I got to see more idiots, including myself, where a Mustang guy would diss a Camaro guy and vice versa and the come backs for each idiot was: "yeah, but the new Mustang will come out next year..." or "Yeah, but the Camaro is already 2 years old...of course the Mustang beat it..." Such lunacy... Which brings me to this post here. Yes. Of course! I understand why companies spend billions to create new platforms every 6-8 years or so...to be on the cutting edge of technology to one-up the competition. But that too is lunacy. Take the fullsized pick-up truck wars. Every new gen platform and the Big 3 boast towing capacities and we are in a world where these pick-up trucks can practically haul shyte on par with 18 wheelers. Exaggeration of course. OK...I guess that kind of competition is good for the consumer, but when does a regular Joe Blow need to haul shyte like an 18 wheeler on with his Chevy Silverado? Keep in mind, I AM talking about a regular Joe Blow here.... And all that these brings to the car manufacturer is enormous amounts of R&D money that they do not necessarlity need to spend... And the negative talk in car mags? Is a 2 generations ago Silverado THAT much of a loser vehicle as compared to a brand new 2020 F-150? Because, of all the R&D money spent on each and every generation of the Silverado, I personally do not think that a 2 generations ago Silverado is that much behind a new generation Silverado, or Ram or F-150... Corvette just proves it... The C4 and the C5 and the C6 and the C7 are not really brand new new platforms from the generations before... Improved upon...yes, but not brand new like the C8 is... and THAT would be smart R&D money. Toyoter too. This is why Toyoter has a huge war chest of money... PS: Ive changed my mind set on this issue and returned to how I used to think. Like you!

VERY WELL WRITTEN!!! We SHOULD embrace our biases and we should ADMIT them when we are discussing things. I do NOT hold back on my biases. I try to be as open as I possibly can when I speak or post. I put all my cards on the table...some people do not know how to cope with that and they read into more than they should from what I said because of their own biases that they also seem to suppress whether they are aware of their own bias or not. I tend to pick up on that right away and put the two opposing biases on display but that causes more riff... Regarding professionalism to where opinions and "facts" really influence folk....MONEY is always a factor. Integrity is a trait that can and does get compromised when money is involved. Very few professionals stay...professional. Its hard. Circumstances sometimes does not allow for integrity to be upheld and so forth... But sometimes...humanity is decent and integrity remains strong... Bias. Its a human necessity. Its how we evolve and survive... But we have to allow others to have biases and opinions. But when money is involved, sometimes that bias is money influenced and is not really personal anecdotal opinion, but fake, money influenced business transactions that are passed off as personal, anecdotal advice and opinion... And integrity is compromised...and fake views on subjects are being passed on and lead people to fake conclusions... And when we see that kind of bias, we should expose it for the crap that it is and not embrace it... We must not be naive to this either...we have a brain, we must use it...

Never mind... *SIGH* my post was stolen by Bob...beat me to it by mere seconds...

Im actually older than you. 46. I dont drink or eat in my car either. My kids on the other hand...different story.

I bet! I have watched some of those auctions on TV in the past. Why do I remember seeing them on XMAS day or New Year's day? Selective memory?

So I guess its you, the Corvette owners, that are a finicky bunch then... Golf bags. Cup holders. Fat seats for your old man fat asses.

So...a GIF like this appropriate then? @USA-1 In pics, that front end looks bulky. Lost in translation happens with pictures. True true. That GPS front lifting memory feature is awesome. Corvette engineers thought of many things to cater to those finicky exotic car owners. They did their homework... EDIT @Robert Hall Barrett J happens just before XMAS or right about New Years Day, right? The Montreal Show is mid January... You cant go then...I cant just retreat that GIF...I NEED to see the C8 before you...

If @Robert Hall is gonna have a hard time seeing a C8 in person, I come from Montreal, I bet that Ill be seeing one waaaaay after Bob will... But then again, Montreal's Auto Show happens in January. Maybe GM will have one on display. I will attend if they do. So no. Havent seen one in person. Superfast 812? Phoque I LOVE that car. Not more than a Hellcat Challenger. But I LOVE that car. The last thing I wanna do is bitch about engineering choices and why things are placed in the car. So I understand the exhaust pipes being where they are. Part of my post above about the rear and the trunk also included the exhausts and why they are there. I just didnt mention that. Same reasons why the front is bulky. Frunk. Corvette needs to be a daily driver and that means engineers need to make space for stuff. And THAT is why the front is bulky. Im sure if the Corvette was to be a purely speed and track machine, and NOT be a daily driven friendly car, then the car could have been more streamlined both in the front and in the back...

I wrote that 7 hours ago. That the movie aint out yet. This whole thing... I just said I hope its not a crappy American flag waving shytfest. And it made at least 3 folk angry with me for saying and PROVING that this whole Ford GT40 LeMans thing has some deep and flawed folklore to it... Their defense: Its a movie and movies are meant to be enjoyed. A back handed insult to me... Where I look for accuracy in a movie about ACTUAL EVENTS, they chastise me for wanting that in THIS movie... I guess becsause its not a documentary, and just a "movie", crappy American flag waving shytfests should be the norm when an American is involved in ANY historical event when depicted in a movie... I guess I insulted their PATRIOTISM for fake MAGA flag waving folklore...

Purists. Haters. The C8 looks the part. Love it or hate it, it speaks the mid-engine super car language. On all levels. It aint as elegant in the frontal area as say...the Ferrari 458, the car that it was benched mark after in the looks department and in the engineering driving and handling characteristics. Or the new McLaren GT which resembles it a little. The Ferrari 488 and the F8 Tributo do seem to be more refined looks wise than the C8. But then again, the Vette is NOT supposed have refined lines. But aggressive ones. And the C8 certainly does have that. The rear. The rear does seem unnecessarily busy., I myself wished it was more "refined" and smoothed over. But then again, the rear does need to have some sort of trunk to fit the targa top and the dumb golf bags that the Vette faithful so cherish... Who am I to declare war on the rear? I am not a buyer of Corvette. Not now. Not in the near future. But past, current and future Vette buyers required and require that... But, Ive also listened to Tadge Juechter and his staff speak about how and why they chose those design elements in the car, and HE said that that is what the young designers are doing so that design is the future. Along with the necessary engineering requirements... And if you look at the current and future supercar renderings from the exotic makers, you will see similar aggressive design themes that the Corvette C8 has adopted. And FUTURE design elements is the KEY here... So Im good with that. The ONLY thing I wished it had was its quad exhausts were centered like how it all started with the C5. Irony being that I HATED that design element in 1997. But now I WANT it... The "Camaro rear tailights" look good on it. I like them on the C7. I just dont like the black plastic that look like tears on the C7, but on the C8 they are MORE than awesome!!! Performance wise? The Z51 KILLS it. The base base at below 60 grand...like what do you want more? At around 80-90 grand, this machine is the complete package. Minus the brand snobbery. But then again, Corvette has its own awesome brand image. And yes, this is just the beginning. Z06. Hybrid 1000 HP plus variant... I love Ferrari. I love Ford GT (40) I LOVE the Viper. Then there is CORVETTE for me on a whole other level. But I am more of a fullsized and midized muscle car guy.

Ive been on youtube and several automotive sites searching for ANY C8 content. Ive also read hundreds if not thousands of comments on those sites and videos regarding the C8 I found out that the majority of people all over the world (And yeah...Ive listened to GERMAN youtube videos, and Ive read GERMAN comments...google translate for the comments but I have NO clue what the videos said...) That the C8 is MOSTLY well perceived. Fans from all kinds of types of vehicles applaud GM for having the balls to switch to mid-engine for the Corvette. A vocal minority, but big numbers just the same just wished that GM kept the Corvette front engined the way it was. Most comments liked the C8's exterior looks. Most comments were about it looked BETTER than the other mid-engined exotics out there. Trolls on US content commented how it looked like an Acura NSX or it was a Walmart Ferrari. I do not think the German comments were trolly, but it was fairly even split between the German folk liking the exterior looks, better than the C7 and C6 or those that liked the C8 but find the looks to be more European and that was a set back because at least the C7 and C6 had American styling design (same with the placement of the engine, these folk applauded the mid-engine effort but stated that the Corvette lost its specialness by being Front engined RWD) and those that hated it because it reminded them too much of a Ferrari design. But many many many comments were how before they would NEVER consider a Corvette, but the C8 won them over. Price and performance with that mid-engine layout being the reasons given. Some said...(who knows if they really own a 911 or Ferrari) that they would now ditch their German and Italian rides for the Corvette C8. On the interior....hands down...comments were about how much better it looks and seems to be than previous generations. However, in the German comments, there were some trolls that called the Corvette American junk and that it will never hold a candle to a 911, BMW, Audi or Mercedces. Just an anecdotal post...take that what you want from this post. Enjoy it or rip me into pieces for it...

writes: What are you talking about? Mid-engined exotic car owners are not finicky. Where is your proof that mid-engined exotic owners are finicky? I dont buy that at all. You are generalizing and that is a not good when stating your opinions on a car forum. writes: Yeah...I know. Forbes is stating that the car demographic for mid-engined exotics should favor the launch of the C8 due to the fact that.............. Motor Trend did a study of................. Cars and Safety Weekly says that the young Millennials that are to buy the C8................ This @oldshurst442 guy just doesn't get it. writes: Im gonna have fun test driving it no matter what he says. writes: ( on my post) Yes. But I sat in it and well...Im 8 feet 9 inches tall and because its a GM product, I could fit easily in it because its a GM product and the C8 is also mid-engined but a comparable Ferrari...well the Ferrari sucks because Im 8 feet 9 inches tall and I cant fit my oversized legs and torso in the car. To which I write back to all of you: Listen: Alls Im saying is that Chevrolet nearly killed the Corvette program because....... and I hope Chevrolet will find a way to keep its core buyers intact while keeping new buyers happy and I hope they find new secrets of success in making new loyal Corvette buyers for the next 60 years. And...well, its true that the mid-engined crowd's demands are a little different than what Chevrolet knows about the "muscle car" crowd. writes back: What do you mean the muscle car crowd is different.... writes back: Muscle Car Review and Hot Rod Chevy say that............