oldshurst442

Yeah..politics.... In one world, Ford is afraid that everybody is against them while in another, they let them win the 24 hours of Lemans! According to El Kabong.... Right....Its all politics

Better in who's eyes?YOURS? HA! You are nothing but a arm chair bench racer.... Car and Driver gave that victory to the GT350 over a Stingray.... Corvette....Chevy's top dog... By YOUR logic If Camaro 1LE or SS (who cares?) beats GT350 And the GT350 beats Stingray Then Camaro 1LE is better than Stingray.. Its a waste of money and resources to go with a Stingray...PATHETIC even... GM should just cancel the Stingray. How could GM engineer a C7 only to have a lowly pony car beat it? 2 lowly pony cars beat it.... 2 pony cars!!! The Camaro 1LE AND the GT350 El K, you argue like a highschool-er! ...and that's one of the reasons it's going out of production.Thank you for proving my point. Now go calm down. It's just getting silly, and I don't want to make any cruel comeback quips about elementary school And that is why the next gen Mustang is in effect right now! A couple of years earlier. Let us talk about the C8 shall we???!!! Will it be mid-engined? Duntov wanted that from the early 1960s... You know what. Ford beat Chevy to that punch 3 times... 1.In the mid 60s. 2.The early 2000s 3.and now... So...any other "just wait and see" arguments... EL K....GROW UP!

Better in who's eyes? YOURS? HA! You are nothing but a arm chair bench racer.... Car and Driver gave that victory to the GT350 over a Stingray.... Corvette....Chevy's top dog... By YOUR logic If Camaro 1LE or SS (who cares?) beats GT350 And the GT350 beats Stingray Then Camaro 1LE is better than Stingray.. Its a waste of money and resources to go with a Stingray...PATHETIC even... GM should just cancel the Stingray. How could GM engineer a C7 only to have a lowly pony car beat it? 2 lowly pony cars beat it.... 2 pony cars!!! The Camaro 1LE AND the GT350 El K, you argue like a highschool-er!

Dude....we've already mentioned why the GT350 costs as much as it does... The LT1 engine has Vette sales and truck sales to offset the price tag.... The Voodoo is a one-off special edition engine... QUIT the BS about price tags... The GT350's sound alone is worth the price of admission. Ive said this before... magazine performance numbers are only good for arm chair racers much like your self.... Have YOU raced a GT350 and a Camaro SS or 1LE to concur your obvious strong opinion that you hold? Prolly not! You hold MT on a high pedestal yet denounce Car and Driver's findings for the GT350 cherry picking... What are MT's motives for calling out Ford for a Focus RS? They did not get their freebies from Ford? Then they threaten... You havent yet given a valid reason....only to point the finger at Ford... THAT is very silly and foolish of you... Sorry but a sweet engine not does not justify a high price on any car especially if that's the only reason to do so. Hold up, full stop. The Camaro Z/28 was criticized constantly for the high price tag, which was due to the $16,000 hand built LS7 and $8,000 carbon ceramic brakes. Either an exotic, rare engine justifies higher cost or it doesn't but lets keep consistency here. Also, Olds, you mentioned earlier that Ford has all the right to withhold its vehicles, and that's true. But not to the benefit of shareholders. As Motor Trend stated: next time they'll take whatever Hertz has on the lot. Who stands to lose out when a rental-grade, abused Ford gets compared to shiny, prepped examples from other brands? That is what I said...Motor Trend's credibility gets shot if they do that. Detriment to the shareholders...quite possible. But what if there was a shareholder's meeting about media relations and the shareholders majority win was to with hold test vehicles for magazines. Its just advertisement at the end of the day and maybe FoMoCo doesnt think its effective for them? OK...this is where El Kabong can give his opinion regarding performance stats... But...I have a feeling that no-shows from certain big guns hurt valuable advertising dollars and sales at the stands when certain companies with hold cars... The Focus RS is a big gun in this comparo and it might hurt sales at the stand when Ford withholds out on a Focus because fans want to know about ALL cars in this class.... This bravado talk is simple in my eyes.... It seems that Ford does not need MT for Focus RS sales but MT needs Focus RS for sales at the stands... That is one way to look at it... PS: when it comes to specialty pony cars like the Camaro Z28 or GT350, I will PERSONALLY not whine for high price tags.. A 1969 ZL-1 Camaro was as expensive back in the day as the today's Z28 and GT350...

Dude....we've already mentioned why the GT350 costs as much as it does... The LT1 engine has Vette sales and truck sales to offset the price tag.... The Voodoo is a one-off special edition engine... QUIT the BS about price tags... The GT350's sound alone is worth the price of admission. Ive said this before... magazine performance numbers are only good for arm chair racers much like your self.... Have YOU raced a GT350 and a Camaro SS or 1LE to concur your obvious strong opinion that you hold? Prolly not! You hold MT on a high pedestal yet denounce Car and Driver's findings for the GT350 cherry picking... What are MT's motives for calling out Ford for a Focus RS? They did not get their freebies from Ford? Then they threaten... You havent yet given a valid reason....only to point the finger at Ford... THAT is very silly and foolish of you...

I knew BALTHY would come through!!! Even though he does not know who Samantha Fox was/is... (And he calls himself a 1980s teen...)

If a company DOES NOT WANT TO DO IT...then a COMPANY DOES NOT HAVE TO DO IT!!! Who the phoque are you (EL K) or Motor Trend or anybody else to dictate how a company wants to do business when you (EL K) or Motor Trend or anybody else is NOT on the motherphoking payroll? There are board meetings for this I gather, and it has been voted upon with the shareholders that hold that type of power and privilege.. Ford is still a quasi family business and the Ford family does not want to give out any press cars.... Yes like Ferrari. A journalist was banned by Ferrari when he did like Motor Trend did. Yes Ferrari preps their cars.... Its an image thing. They want to protect this image thing. Its their right to do so... Its a journalists job to get the facts straight... ITS NOT A JOURNALISTS JOB to THREATEN..... DREW already explained what journalists should be doing.... Us consumers.... What should we do? Well, we shouldnt be holding ANY journalistic point of view to its highest regards.... There is BIAS! Hidden agendas.... What a consumer should do is SEE for HIMSELF! El Kabong.... You prolly NEVER drove the Mustang GT350 or GT350R for yourself to have a strong opinion like you do! Your words are just some dumb ass automotive journalist' words that was paid to review whatever his review was all about the way it was reviewed! HIDDEN AGENDAS. Im afraid that integrity in journalism for the most part is long gone! And if it aint, it dont matter, a difference of opinion means that is how one journalist views things, maybe YOU as a consumer will view it differently! Ive got many examples to give: Take THIS argument: We have MY point of view and we have YOURS... We are BOTH right. Two sides of the SAME coin! If YOU dont want to see it that way and only want to see it YOUR way and want to push YOUR way only...that is what is called a hidden agenda! I am flexible! YOU are not El Kabong! YOU even painted me as a Ford Fanboy you are sooooo desperate to discredit me! There is no bias in journalism, especially in automotive journalism? Sure you mention it yourself...but YOU cherry pick..... YOU have cried fowl on how the media treats GM unfairly. YOU have cried fowl how TESLA gets free passes. YOU have cried fowl how the Vettes were forced to be muzzled and how Ferrari and Ford got free willy passes to ultimately win at Lemans. All in a span of a month or 2. And here we are where YOU are crying fowl how I paint the media with the same brush and YOU are saying that Ford is salty and childish.... If Ford gets a free pass to win at Lemans, then I dont see how Ford gets to be salty at anything... If GM produces the goods like you say they do, then why did they lose at Lemans? YOUR views on things are slightly off kilter! No logic to them. And THAT is a tell tale sign of a....TROLL! My argument here has NEVER strayed..... My love for the Camaro's looks are the problem, not with its performance....yet YOU take an offense to that too! Yet I dont provoke it....I only provoke it when YOU troll Ford! And then you become very defensive about that! El Kabong....you got some serious CHILDISH issues you need to fix before YOU start calling a BILLION DOLLAR multi-national corporation childish for imposing a policy that they deem is necessary for some reason!

Its been thought of at least! But honestly, Id rather a have this version with a 4 banger under the hood. With some sort of rapid fire weapon or canon on it. Because that is MY definition of sticking with the status quo AND overkill!

That is all cool and all...and I want to know the ins and outs from GM's BUSINESS stand-point. But more to it than that.... I WANNA KNOW YOUR OPINION ON IT!!! YES BLU, YOUR OPINION! I HAVE A DIRECT CONNECTION WITH YOU. IM VERY MUCH INTERESTED IN WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY.

Its too bad that I dont have more.... Some of us are finicky when others have a different opinion than us... That is too bad!

GM discussed this? Point me in that direction.... To the downvoter. Show yourself... BLU feels like my post is too long to read. Which is fine..and you the downvoter, feels like your opinion should not be shared.... CMON GUYS!!! THIS IS A DISCUSSION FORUM, AINT IT NOT???!!! YOUR OPINION IS NOT ANY BETTER THAN MINE!!! NOR MINE IS BETTER THAN YOURS........... ITS A DISCUSSION.... If you feel like not talking about this....FINE.. DONT DOWNVOTE!!! And, if you feel like not reading my post.... DONT READ IT, BUT DONT BRUSH ME OFF LIKE IM A PEASANT!!! Intelligence is created by discussing. IGNORANCE is maintained by being selective...

You mean: Electricity powered through lithium ion battery packs brown Amaroks for EVERYONE! Diesel in passenger cars are dead.

Ill be reporter Who discussed this? When did this discussion happen? And... I wanna have this discussion again. I noticed that people are afraid of change...but change needs to happen in order to advance. If the rumors are true, the C8 will be mid-engined. Many cry foul at this trying to discredit the spy shots... Many say that this rumor has been going on forever and that no way this time is any different. Many say that that a Corvette front engine, rear wheel drive with a V8 and nothing more. Many point to the Porsche 911 and tell us that because Porsche has never messed with the 911's formula that Corvette should stay the same too... OK... Porsche has changed the 911's formula. From stop being a VW Beetle chassis to ending air cooled engines. From adding turbos and AWD. The Corvette has made only 1 change. From Chevy's Stove Bolt 6 to being a V8. The Corvette even has looked the same since the hatch version of the C3...yes...like the 911. But...The Corvette needs to expand... Why? Because 1 model has to do everything. And it cant. Its a formidable machine. But a Jack Of All Trades approach does not make it the best. It has to be a track star, it has to be a muscle car, it has to be an exotic supercar. The 911 has a zillion different configurations specializing in each and every category. And when the 911 simply cant be the best in 1 area, Porsche makes a brand new supercar that trounces everything. And in order to do that, Porsche expanded its models SUCCESFULLY both engineering wise and marketing wise and sells us SUVs to continue to make all kinds of wonderful sports cars. Corvette needs to be the best. Its awfully close now... but... When a car has a limited reach, it could only go so far. Budget and engineering limits.... The C7 Z06... It had or it may still have heat issues. The C7 Z06 has to be like the C6 ZR1 (muscle car) the C6 Z06 (track star) and also be an exotic supercar based on the C7 R race car. Porsche 911 has many versions to be all that and more...and Porsche has the budget to do so. Corvette C7 Z06 because of heat soak issues, is compromised. And...it being front engine RWD, it has reached its peak. OK, better than any other front engine RWD car ever built. Problem is that other engineering solutions exist and the Corvette is being limited just because we like to have things the way they once were... 24 hours of Lemans. We could cry foul at the Ford GT and the sandbagging and rules hampering the Vettes.... The Ford GT did get a 1-2 finish...from a mid-engine turbo V6 design.... Sure Vettes DOMINATE this series....but not this time around... The Vette in 2016 has an image like never before. States Side it was always a God. Outside this perimeter though, not so much. In 2016, the Vette WORLDWIDE is revered. Thanx to Corvette Racing and the 24 hours of Lemans. Its time to tap into that. Take advantage of that money. And maybe spawn many different types of Vettes in the process to specialize to DESTROY the competition once and for all... Listen, dont look now, but even the Camaro is nudging on the Vettes performance feet. You think that is a good thing for the Vette going forward when little brother Camaro is about to over take you? And maybe that is why the mid-engine Vette thing is real this time around.. And if that is true.. This opens up a whole new ball game for the Vette. The rumors of how many types of Vettes that could be sold along side a mid-engined one is all over the internet. There is no need for me to go into all that. (OK....Im awaiting for the -1 vote for this post)

HA! The corporate (read Chevy) small block V8 is under the hood of Cadillacs and GMC trucks..... And PROUDLY displayed as the Corvette engine... Chevrolet PROUDLY announces the Camaro's platform as the Alpha platform. While this alone may not cause any alarm bells to go off with the deaf, dumb and blind, to the casual observer however, it might cause an aneurysm as he may recall that the little Cadillac car also utilizes the Alpha Platform... No. Tuning by Corvette, even on a Buick, perhaps a Buick Avista concept that is actually on the Alpha Platform anyway...and maybe even having the famous corporate V8 engine under its hood, with a Tuning by Corvette badge, will definitely give street cred to the Avista, while boosting the Corvette image further, especially if that Avista is a killer on the strip and street... Its how one views it...and that is why marketing departments exist: To tell us what should we consider good shyte! And I think the Corvette name is prestigious enough where it SHOULD be marketed as a top dog performance BRAND! I think that only Cadillac should distance itself a tiny bit from General Motors. I also think that Corvette should start becoming a brand. Sell itself some how to be able to stand alone...not entirely alone, have a strong connection to Chevrolet, but be Corvette...period. Not Corvette (by Chevrolet) Maybe Chevrolet Racing should fall under full control to Corvette Racing and go from there.

Diesels have massive amounts of low end torque... HELLO???!!! That also describes muscle cars! (And that gif is depicting me tripping)

I agree to everything you have said. On GM's performance: GM's engineers on high performance vehicles is super focused and dialed in. They are taking no prisoners. No mercy. And that is good. Ford the brand(not FoMoCo) is doing great in becoming an enthusiasts choice for driving enjoyment. Today's Mazda and 1990s Honda seems to be their inspiration. And that is also good. I dont see what the problem is???!!! PS: The Taurus. I said it was a bloated pig. The SHO. I said it becomes a mean, wild boar. I think we both could agree to each other's testament and shake hands on it!

I wish I could lend you a hand and find that song for you, but alas, I may not know that song. "Take your job a shove it" is as close as I could get. The electric car revolution will probably help achieve this goal. Many automakers are going full tilt in EVs... VW is the latest to be thunderstruck. PS: I like the metaphor!

I like your posting style BLU. Reminds me of somebody that I used to know.... (Fear not,I wont post Gotye) I dont think it will dilute. Imagine a Buick. This Buick With a "Tuning by Corvette" badge on it. Hyper mentioned a Tahoe sport truck... For me, it elevates Corvette status if marketed right.

It is not a question of VW fanboys loving their diesels. Its a question of lies, fraud and pollution. Hey...I love me some big blocked, leaded gasoline, muscle cars without catalytic converters getting 9 miles to the gallon...unfortunately those types of cars are in the same boat as the diesel powered ones....

Thanx Drew for all that insight!

Then, if it aint only MT, then it must be some sort of company policy. But we want to fault that company policy and say that Ford is salty? Yeah....real mature. Drew and William are journalists too and they too have been given the cold shoulder from Ford. Question is this: When a journalist gets the cold shoulder, why does HE/SHE become bitter? And Im not saying Drew and William are bitter. Im asking why did MT call out Ford they way they did?

Telling it how it is.... Fine.... But Ford did not whine about a rental car negating yours and my false assumptions of belittling and whining... But it is a threat. We all know that rentals are abused and most definitely will have faults that will affect some sort of performance or quality metric... So....why mention it now for the next time? Motor Trend thinks we are all teenagers and want that style of WWE wrestling smack talk... Let me repeat: Threats, lies and innuendo is worthy of the National Enquirer and TMZ... Fair is fair... If one car is rental grade, then all cars should be rental grade...if not....its sensationalist journalism IE National Enquirer and TMZ. YES CCAP... Its like Motor Trend thinks they are the be all end all of automotive anything....and Ford should bow down to them. f@#k MOTOR TREND and THEIR CHILDISH ANTICS..... WOOOOOOOO.....Ford did not give them a car. They could buy one and use theirs.... Oh....no complimentary treats for a favorable review this way!!! So we threaten to NOT have negative reviews next time!!!

Seems kind of silly to blame MT for the fact that Ford won't give them a real test car. Seems kind of silly to try to belittle and to threaten a car company to comply... Like I said...journalism is there ONLY to state the facts....EQUAL and FAIR DEVOID of ANY BIAS.... I repeat....the Hertz comment is akin to the National Enquirer and TMZ... Tabloid bullshyte..nullifying, in my eyes, their coveted COTY awards for the modern times.... I guess credibility means nothing anymore...

This reminds me of the Montreal media going ape shyte because the Montreal Canadiens Hockey Club wouldn't divulge ANY information about their number 1 goalie superstar Carey Price's injury last season. The Montreal Media were inventing stories because the Montreal Hockey Club had nothing to report...and when the Hockey Club told a couple of reporters to stop feeding the public lies....these journalistic idiots said that it was the Hockey Club's fault for them speculating flasehoods and that it is their duty...to lie, in essence... And they said its the Hockey Club's duty to divulge their secrets to them... How narcissistic can you get? And I aint talking about the Habs....and I CANT STAND THE HABS!!! Drew... Threats, lies and innuendo are not part of the 5 Ws of journalism... Facts are facts.... And if Motor Trend wants to give a fair comparo stating the facts....then all cars should be of the rental kind...if not.... Motor Trend is as worthy as the National Enquirer and TMZ...

Which brings us back to square 1... From Motor Trend: That little tantrum statement sounds just as desperate as Ford's PR department not wanting to play... To which Ill repeat my original opinion on it.... The magazines exist for people to dream a little dream. The magazines exist for internet bravado and arm chair racing. The magazines exist for fanboys to cheer when the magazines say good things about their favorites. The magazines exist for fanboys to cry home to mommy when the magazines say bad things about their favorites. The magazines exist and are biased as hell. The magazines exist and forget their biases whenever it suits their agenda for that particular purpose. Magazines are full of shyte in other words... Especially when this statement: "Next time we’re taking whatever beater Hertz has to offer" sounds like a threat rather than an honest to goodness true journalism... A threat like that seems like the article will be a scathingly negative review... I think a threat like that makes Motor Trend even LESS credible than they already are... Motor Trend's words sometimes are worthless...