oldshurst442

I upvoted you on that....because its actually closer to the truth than some of us want to admit...

I dont know where these are...and these are Zeta Camaros...true..... And....maybe the showroom floor aint shared...because even in Canada...Cadillac is alone on one side while GMC, Buick and Chevrolet is on the other side, this EXTERIOR scene is all too common even in 2016.. The dealership near my home has the Cadillac area completely to the left in the middle is Mr. Goodwrench and to the right is Chevy, Buick and GMC. And the front of the parking lot is where the inventory is located, not the back of the dealership.... OK....remember I said there was a clearance sale of the ATS? OK...there were 3 ATS cars in front of the Cadillac area...there was 1 Impala and 1 new Volt with a Silverado in front of the Chevy area....but like in the photos above...there was 1 new Camaro SS and 1 Malibu Premium IN FRONT of the ATS in the client parking spot...yes...they were for sale...not demos....inventory for sale! Note....that photo is an older one....a couple of years ago when Cadillac did share that space with Buick and GMC.... Today though, Cadillac is alone...Buick and GMC are in the Chevy side of the dealership....but the signage remains the same... But...it dont matter when the dealership general manager sticks Chevy cars OUTSIDE the building in the Cadillac area....

I LOVE those!!!! Those for me would be....mid 80s... Early 1980s: Like its, totally yuk.

LOL!!! I like this model T-Bird. Better than any other T-Bird from the 1970s and early 1980s in my opinion. OK...Ill admit...this last T-Bird is no Adonis, but a million times better than the Disco Queen T-Birds.

Red headed Italian girl...and not existing? I show you 2.... One is a curvy model....of 1950/1960s vintage... Sex Symbol. OK...not a real redhead.... This model of 1980s vintage was a real redhead and a sex symbol as well... The name says it all.... You gotta work with me here, bro....

And hence my thought process with an ATS does not make me wanna belt out loud Sliiiiiiiiick Black Caaaaaadillac with solid gold hubcaps....making me feel like a king, and hence why I made this thread to see who else may have this doubt about Cadillac...if not the whole brand, at least for just that one model, the ATS. It is quite sad, for a Cadillac enthusiast, to see an equivalent Mercedes Benz product....at least in price if not in quality, to outsell the ATS... It is also quite sad to see a similar priced Chevrolet on the same lot as said Cadillac product. It wouldnt be so bad had Cadillac been stand alone....but to share the same dealership and to have a lesser brand within the same family compete with you on price defeats the purpose of being top tier 1 luxury. The Buick dilemma is less with the Envision and XT5, because the price of entry is higher and Buick is premium as opposed to Chevy being....gulp....MAINSTREAM and CHEAP....when a Sonic costs $12 000 CDN or so....to have a Chevrolet Malibu Premium touch ATS price tag....to have a Chevrolet alpha platformed brother to cost AS MUCH as the ATS.... Like I said...Cadillac sells the ATS alone in its OWN dealership, not so bad....but to have Chevrolet there.... The ATS besides a Malibu....and the ATS just looks like yet another ho-hum compact car.... RWD? Big PHOQUING deal!!!!! The CLA from M-B proves it to the ATS that RWD is NO BIG DEAL!!! Besides....although I have a hard time accepting the Camaro....the Camaro is a stunner.... The Camaro V8 is actually a BETTER machine than the ATS no matter what engine resides in the ATS....and the kicker, other than the ATS-V TTV6, the Camaro enjoys the SAME engines...BUT....between "V" and "SS", the "SS" has the more prestigious engine.... Proof? The bigger brother CTS-V has got it under its hood.... And the Camaro will gain better versions too.... Different target market you say? I say PHOOEY!!!! Cadillac, JDN better figure out what direction they need to steer Cadillac in, and yes he is only starting....but as of 2016.....I aint singing SLIIIIIIICK BLACK CAAAAAAADILLAC..... I more in tune to singing.... And Lord knows I DONT WANT TO DO THAT!!!!!

I could read the headlines now.... Im gonna kiss my wife like this if any one of the G3 goes under! Yup...Ill travel to Times Square, NYC, with a sailor's uniform and plant a big wet one on her in this exact same way! We will fight them on the beaches.... I smell sweet victory with this...if true...maybe this is what Cadillac and Lincoln need to get some of that trust back from some of the American public.

Well....I dont really care how big one is over the other.... It DOES make sense though.... Buick needs to carve out its own niche....and destiny. Cadillac too. Both brands need to be in this segment. The thing is...both vehicles are very very different in style and in nature... So...both COULD co-exist without the internal competition effect...

You do NOT agree. Tiny crossovers is NOT where Cadillac should be going, at the very least because and Cadillac isn't AND because everyone wants them to stop saying See what you did there?? VERY CLEVER, BALTHY. I like very much what YOU did there. +1

That buck naked guy guest....Im guessing is Wings.... He did the same thing over at MT....with those types of names...

Your attempts to rile me up are laughable. The ATS essentially replace the CTS in the Cadillac line and only the name goes back to what the second gen CTS was. The CTS currently is for all intents the STS from before. Thus.. no coupe. IN terms of sales the product mix: 2011 Coupe 27% 2011 Sedan 70% 2011 Wagon 3% 2012 Coupe 27% 2012 Sedan 70% 2012 Wagon 4% 2013 Coupe 29% 2013 Sedan 68% 2013 Wagon 3% 2014 Coupe 29% 2014 Sedan 69% 2014 Wagon 2% with almost 30% going to coupe sales 2011 55,042 2012 46,979 2013 32,343 2014 31,115 Means that almost 15K were coupe sales in 2011. BMW's 3series sales, when it was a coupe and convertible were 15% of that mix. Meaning that Cadillac sold almost double.. by percentage.. of CTS Coupes than BMW did coupes and convertibles combined Now go post a video or something clown Your attempts to rile me up are laughable. The ATS essentially replace the CTS in the Cadillac line and only the name goes back to what the second gen CTS was. The CTS currently is for all intents the STS from before. Thus.. no coupe. IN terms of sales the product mix: 2011 Coupe 27% 2011 Sedan 70% 2011 Wagon 3% 2012 Coupe 27% 2012 Sedan 70% 2012 Wagon 4% 2013 Coupe 29% 2013 Sedan 68% 2013 Wagon 3% 2014 Coupe 29% 2014 Sedan 69% 2014 Wagon 2% with almost 30% going to coupe sales 2011 55,042 2012 46,979 2013 32,343 2014 31,115 Means that almost 15K were coupe sales in 2011. BMW's 3series sales, when it was a coupe and convertible were 15% of that mix. Meaning that Cadillac sold almost double.. by percentage.. of CTS Coupes than BMW did coupes and convertibles combined Now go post a video or something clown While correct in % but with 3 series roughly doubling, in 2011, CTS sales at 94,153(and the ratio worsens beyond 2011 as CTS drop and 3 rise) they would still be selling the same total number of 3 Series coupes(now 4Series). They can just amortize the costs better and make a better business case for variants...which in my opinion they are way beyond number of choices at this point.. 3 Series Grand Turisno? One of the ugliest vehicles ever made. Proportions are dog $h!. And according to your own figures Casa....the CTS coupe sales were dropping faster than girl's panties when Prince was around them.... And in a relatively short period of time.... The GM bean counters said ...NO NO NO....no more CTS coupe.... Remember....because I mentioned this before...but you ignore, and suppress....the CTS coupe shared very little with the sedan... Not a very successful car at 31 000 units during the last year....from 55 000 units....and how much were the incentives to move it the last 2 years? Remember...55 000 units @ year 1 to 32 000 and 31 000 units years 3 & 4....with probably massive amounts of rebates to move that hunk of shyte out of the dealership the last 2 years... YEAH CASA... I think maybe my clown kit...Ill pass it on to you...

No third choice. These are it. Take 'em or leave 'em. Topless American woman during spring break or curvy (but not in this case) red headed Italian supermodel... I gotta admit, I dont know too much about this car. Its a stunner though. Looks great being seen or driven in next to a Mediterranean Boardwalk.

Bump

Im quite happy actually being born in 1973 and being a teenager in the 1980s and living my adult life in the 2000s. I don't prefer the 1970s as an adult over the 2000s. I wouldn't mind switching though. I know I wouldn't like to be an adult in the 1950s...as a teen yes, not as an adult. To me, the 1950s (and 1960s) seem like a naïve period. All the lies, innuendo that have been fed to the people, including the lies about WW2 and the false reasons why it started making it seem like the Nazis were the ONLY bad guys, the Cold War and making THAT seem like the Communists were the ONLY bad guys... The too perfect world of the American family with the dog, house and white picket fence....and the hypocrisy surrounding the devil's music, blacks, race relations and the place of the white male versus any other minority including women... To me it seemed like in the 1940s, women had more rights than they did in the 1950s...they actually worked in factories to produce military weapons....they actually played sports andf were not frowned upon while doing so.... I feel that the assassination of JFK really woke many people up... And all the uprising whether it was Malcolm X or Martin Luther King or women burning their bras really sent a message to "take it to the man"... Which is good. I feel like we don't do enough of that today...and we should as we are ;letting corporate greed rule us... On the other hand, maybe we are too cynical today....the pendulum has swung the other way, maybe too far the other way as opposed to being too naïve. I would love to have lived as a teen in the 1920s and 1930s... Mucho poverty, but it seems to me that our politicians and companies cared a tad more about the well being of their people as opposed to today. But maybe Im seeing those times from red coloured glasses too...and Im seeing the 1950s with very dark Ray Bans...

Yeah...Farrah Fawcett. MMMMMMMM. Tasty. Teenager/early adult in the 1970s and its Trans Am all the way. Disco AND Rock-N-Roll would be blasting on the radio. Dressed like a young dude from that era did... A successful restaurant owner, husband and father as I am now and its a Cadillac. Probably the Seville. Coupe or Sedan. And dressed like a wise guy. No mustache.

OK, this is just disconnected from reality. How many people would actually rather live in the 70s with no Internet or cell phones or modern health technology? Yeah...I know....Im about to revive a dead thread. Watch-out people, zombies up ahead. I realize this dude hasnt been around for awhile....but Id like to answer his question....(the rest of his posts are just plain dumb and uneducated. Im with you Drew all the way..) Anyway... I AM ONE OF THOSE FEW THAT WOULD LOVE TO LIVE IN THE 1970s.... Technically, I lived in the 1970s....born in 1973. No internet??? NO FREAKIN' PROBLEM!!!! Listen, the internet and how it is used as a communication device and transfer and storage of information in 2016 is just...words cannot describe this... For me, the invention and usage of the internet is akin to the invention of fire and the wheel. It has transformed humanity like never before. Fire and the wheel and the internet. Mobility on land(the automobile and in the air come after fire,wheel and internet) But...communication was still pretty darned good in the 1970s. Cell phones? Dude....really, there is no need for a cell phone for the average person to have 24/7. Sure...communication is very important, but to post on Facebook that you just took a leak is a phenomenon that needs to go away.... Id rather non-Facebook/Twitter world of the 1970s... When one wanted to cruise a chick, he cruised a chick....he actually went up to TALK to her...face to face...made EYE CONTACT!!! Besides....public telephones were EVERYWHERE....and only cost a bloody dime....how much is your monthly smart phone bill there CSPEC? Talk about another useless thing we spend our money on making us even MORE poor...then we bitch about the price of a fast food hamburger slice of cheese that 75 cents is too expensive to add on to because we spend hundreds of dollars/month on internet bills.... Which is more important to you? Food or the chat we do on twitter? The way the AVERAGE Joe uses the internet...the internet is useless.... Music was REAL. Cars...were dreadful, or starting to become dreadful, yet, they seemed to be more fun....driving itself seemed to be more enjoyable. Fashion was disgusting in the 1970s....yet, men were men and women were proud of that.... This is not about sexual orientation....just that marketing was not as a low point as it is now... Good looking dude....metrosexual I believe is the term.... Yet....in the 1970s... There was no need to exploit.... The women...were finally started to rise and NOT be second class sexualized citizens...well....that is a false statement I made...yet...in 2016...it seems that women have regressed....further than they were in the 1970s.... Loni Anderson...what a slut!!!! 2016... Let me remind you....this girl was the sex pot singer of the 70s... What a whore???!!! Yeah...Id take the "medieval" medical era of the 1970s easily over 2016 any day of the week.... Oh....and AIDS first case was not reported until the 1980s...

This is a very easy choice for me to make. Although Ive seen the Alpha in Greece when I have visited in the past, and its a stunner for European roads and culture, Im more of an American car guy. And living in North America, Id rather cruise the streets of Montreal in the red Thunderbird. V8 music included, even though that particular V8 was docile. However, keep in mind, that the Alpha Romeo Spider would look very much at home on Montreal streets. Especially in Old Montreal. But...the Thunderbird wins easily....

This is a combination of CheersandGears monthly car spotter threads and Would You Rather threads. Ive come to realize that lately in Montreal, in the summer, interesting cars appear. This was not the case even 5 years ago...but Ill take it now.... Usually, the interesting cars are seen by me on the same day or 24 hours later, and usually, these cars are somewhat similar in some peculiar way. I like to pair them up and start a conversation. These are past sightings. A sample of three from Motor Trend Forums for some of you to see what kind of bizarre thoughts I have.... http://forums.motortrend.com/70/9633577/the-general-forum/would-you-rather-an-e30-m3-from-bmw-or-a-69-trans/index.html http://forums.motortrend.com/70/9641815/the-general-forum/would-you-rather-a-jaguar-xj-s-buick-riviera-or-a/index.html http://forums.motortrend.com/70/9739103/the-general-forum/would-you-rather-a-73-olds-delta-88-or-a-03-merced/index.html Anyhoo, the past 48-60 hours have not been any different. It has been very nice spring weather in Montreal these last few days. 680 F Usually, I have a story behind the sightings, but not this time. Straight up sighting a couple of days ago. I got off of work and in the parking lot was this beautiful red 2002 Ford Thunderbird. Mint condition. Looked exactly like this one here. Top down. Ready to cruise. Yesterday, as I was leaving Canadian Tire....I needed car wax to wax my cars...when this little sexy Italian car came out of nowhere. Red. Top down, and the dude was already cruising with his wife. Older couple in their 60s. I did not get a chance to wave or thumbs up or nothing.

I especially love that song called Cream... "Oh...he wants some of yours and not some of mine.." I had a similar situation with similar dialogue...and all the while, this song was popular when my situation....ahem...arose... YES....pun MOST DEFINITELY INTENDED!!! - Batdance - When Doves Cry - I Would Die 4 U - 1999 - Lets Go Crazy And the countless of songs that he had a hand in with many many different artists... Such as: and

As far as the didnt sell part... OK...you got me...on a semantic technicality.... 30% of nothing is..... CCAP might be kidding around, but GM bean counters were not... The Autoline Detroit interview with JDN....he mentioned that when the next product line is about to be talked about, the accounting guys are ready to discuss and let the engineers know what models made money... The CTS coupe shared very very little with the sedan.... I wonder how much money was made on it.... Yeah Casa....you got me...the CTS coupe was a stupendous success story in the market place... It sure made a dent in BMW coupe sales.... That is why BMW has cut back on its small coupes.... There is no 2 Series and no 4 Series....but Cadillac has got an ATS coupe and a CTS coupe.... Wait what? The ATS was supposed to replace the CTS and the CTS was supposed to be more in line with a 5 Series...while the ATS is in line with the 3 Series... 2 Series 4 Series and 6 Series..... Cadillac has got the ATS....plus the Camaro.... Because the CTS coupe was such a sales hit!!! Got it!!! You sure set me straight....

Whatever Casa... Bottom line is: Its an opinion based thread. To boot, you even admitted that the ATS is conservatively styled. My concern was exactly that. What Cadillac means to me? Cadillac is bigger than life and their cars no matter what segment they reside in should reflect all aspects of that. Ill give you the ATS-V....but its still boy racer. Sorry dude, but the stylists of the ATS-V had the 1989 W-Body Pontiac GP Turbo and consequent GT and GTPs in mind when they did the ATS-V. Functional or not....still boy racer... Deny, ignore and suppress....

This was a BIGGER shock to me than anybody else that died... Prince...dead at the age of 57 today..... Id post some his songs but he wasnt too big on youtube... Later, Ill try to find some songs....or Ill just state what songs I liked from him. Rest in Peace Prince. You are definitely a musical icon.

Did you climb the highest mountains or run through the fields? Have you ran and crawled and scaled city walls just to find that youtube pic? Because Bono did all that...and he STILL hasnt found what he's looking for.

I never had any issues with the product...nor the styling. The presence, the feel...the attitude of the ATS, in MY EYES is all wrong... So be it.. The Attitude of the ATS is to take on the best from Europe. It does. Very well in attitude, presence and feel. It lacks the variety that those Europeans do thus sales will be low., It lacks their marketing.. thus sales will be low. It is also first generation. The fact that it doesn't jibe with your idea of what U believe Cadillac should be speaks volumes as to what they are doing right in terms of attracting the new customers to the brand Just how you would not buy a Cadillac Brougham of 1996 vintage, and noit until you were 60 years old...because I, at 43 years of age, would have considered a Brouhmam in 2016... Perhaps because I've driven and been in both.. thru out the years. The old Cadillacs are cool for those who want them, but going forward.. FORWARD.. Cadillac needs to stay this course. To think that they were not gonna get people like yourself who hated the NEW Cadillac would have been ridiculous. Reminds me of people who say they prefer the Vinyl LPs over the CD or digital music. Its nostalgia driven that is all. The question I asked is how does one feel about Cadillac... I don't want Cadillac to be producing land yachts...but what do you think a Ciel is? Or an Escalade for that matter... (You've got to be kidding me if you think an Escalade is all that different from a 1996 Brougham...a slight suspension tuning to be less floaty for modern day Cadillac drivers is that difference...because its still a BOF vehicle...an SUV...Im sure a Brougham could have had the same suspension and steering feel done to it with the same brakes to be a more modern land yacht...) The Escalade, and other SUVS like Range Rover for years.. was branded as not worthy of Luxury simply because they were trucks or not traditional luxury vehicles (read cars). The Escalade, while certainly being big and bold is big and bold no differently than any other 5800lbs 204 inch (Length) and 74 inch (height) vehicle would be... As to FEEL.. yeah a ride, drive, or even better.. OWNING of one certainly feels special. My Dad also owns a previous gen Escalade we bought him.. my mom an SRX.. both say that they love their vehicles and both say they exude the special feeling they had about Cadillac when they.. THEY.. they were growing up. That's high praise considering they grew up in the 50s and 60s. When I got into my last 3 Caddys.. I always felt like I was equal of better than any BMW or Benz rolling near. Not one time did I not stop somewhere and even your vaulted S-Class owner not tell me how gorgeous and nice.. outta kno where mind U.. my STS or CTS was at the time. This current CTS gets unbelievable props. I feel like I'm pushing a Ferrari more than any luxury sedan, by the way people react to it. Just yesterday during dinner I could see my Rose parked out in from the Restaurant as a guy in his 20s literally tripped up over the curb staring and pointing showing his girlfriend how slick Rose was. She said to him.. "if U had a car like that.. we'd have to break-up, cause of all the THOTS U'd be meeting" I like the way the ATS drives...its the lack of presence its got on the road that is a concern to me... Ive gotten over the fact that Cadillac compacts are reality, but when a Honda Civic has more teeth and ballz to its look and feel, there is a problem. Casa, the ATS, while arts and science is clearly visible, the ATS is no more exciting than the BMW and Audi cars you whine about... ATS V aside....which has boy racer looks, is clearly lacking road presence. And a price tag that Chevrolet keeps bouncing up on... Tell that same thing to the 3Series.. and C-Class.. I keep tell y'all that conservatism is the way of the entry segment. The ATS tends to be conservative til U hit the Premium model.. then it shines. U've obviously never seen an ATS-V on the road or U would definitely not be saying something as crazy as it lacks road presence. Your pricing issues are also insane as every car can easily come up on luxury pricing when tarted up. A Chevy Impala also knocks on the Audi A6 Price as well. Ah...Casa, but you finally saw what Im seeing with the ATS...(non ATS-V...we will get to that V later) "The ATS tends to be conservative" Yes....it seems like the ATS is just another compact car in a sea of compacts...with a price tag that a Ford Fusion Titanium could reach.... My opening words to this thread..yet I chose a Camaro, Impala and Malibu to drive my thought process home... And then I thought about it some more and I said that Cadillacs should be larger than life regardless if compact or fullsized or SUV... Then you went all pissy to finally admit the ATS is styled conservatively... The CTS coupe of a couple years ago was FUGLY, it did not sell NOT because it pushed the boundaries too far, its because the man with the ugly stick touched it. I heard a rumour that the ATS, current CTS and CT6 lack Cadillac machismo is because of the Chinese market. That is for another conversation... OK...about the ATS-V....I never said it lacked presence...I said it had it...but with boy racer styling... Is Cadillac chasing the Fast and the Furious crowd with that? Because I, would never aspire to own a "V" series car, just because of the boy racer aspect. Its cool that you feel 60 years old in your father's Brougham, many felt that way between the years 1986-2010. Yeah..1986, not the 1990s that you are trying to say...Cadillac was starting to roll downhill from them....and BMW/Audi was going up....(if the unintended acceleration shyte did not hit Audi then, Audi would hae been BIGGER than BMW in the 1990s...)but if I was to drive YOUR CTS-V, I wouldnt feel comfortable in it as I wouldnt want people to say Im hitting a mid-life crisis.... Boy Racer....that is for Pontiacs.... Beautiful... Absolutely GORGEOUS car... But...I see the same thing in this automobile...without the ribbed sides... Vented hoods...functional or not...same shyte... Air thingys on the bottom of both cars...functional or not...same shyte... To boot, the Pontiac GP has CLASSIER wheels... If the goal is for affluent ATS-V buyers in their 40s,50s, and possibly 60s to relieve their go go go 20s...then mission accomplished... But...somehow, I dont think that is Cadillac's mission. Cadillac's mission was to attract the younger buyers...yes...but I dont think it was to throw them on under the Fast and Furious bus... The ELR is a compact that embodied that Cadillac presence WITHOUT the boy racer shyte...

I never had any issues with the product...nor the styling. The presence, the feel...the attitude of the ATS, in MY EYES is all wrong... Just how you would not buy a Cadillac Brougham of 1996 vintage, and noit until you were 60 years old...because I, at 43 years of age, would have considered a Brouhmam in 2016... The question I asked is how does one feel about Cadillac... I don't want Cadillac to be producing land yachts...but what do you think a Ciel is? Or an Escalade for that matter... (You've got to be kidding me if you think an Escalade is all that different from a 1996 Brougham...a slight suspension tuning to be less floaty for modern day Cadillac drivers is that difference...because its still a BOF vehicle...an SUV...Im sure a Brougham could have had the same suspension and steering feel done to it with the same brakes to be a more modern land yacht...) I like the way the ATS drives...its the lack of presence its got on the road that is a concern to me... Ive gotten over the fact that Cadillac compacts are reality, but when a Honda Civic has more teeth and ballz to its look and feel, there is a problem. Casa, the ATS, while arts and science is clearly visible, the ATS is no more exciting than the BMW and Audi cars you whine about... ATS V aside....which has boy racer looks, is clearly lacking road presence. And a price tag that Chevrolet keeps bouncing up on... ATS V... Boy racer looks. That is a very cheap way to establish road presence. That was Pontiac's way, it worked for Pontiac...well...Pontiac is no longer... But whatever...I like this thread because I got many people's point of view of Cadillac for 2016...I wanted to know if I was alone in these thoughts of mine... and I would STILL like others to join in... Plenty of Cheers and Gears folk that have not chimed in. PS...a big grille alone does not equate to being bold... Its got to be "more than a sum of its parts" type deal...