oldshurst442

I did not mean to make my rant sound like you are anti-Tesla. Im sorry for that. I did want to correct you on that misconception that the Model S is not profitable. The Model S has some of the better profit margins of any car in that price range. But, Tesla as of 2016, is still a start-up company. By 2030, Tesla will no longer be a start-up company. If they make it until then... But, like any other business, and you alluded to it, any business for it to survive needs to sell its products... SELL SELL SELL GM with Cadillac, Ford with Lincoln, FCA with just about all their brands minus Ram and Jeep, Honda with Acura, Hyundai with Genesis also face the same dilemmas and problems and situations as Tesla for that same time span which is 2030... Lincoln needs to put more asses in their seats, as does Cadillac and Acura and Genesis. And Genesis quite frankly, looks like they have the advantage over all of them... So...its a moot point to just look at Tesla with question marks for their future... Besides...the Model X is about to go on sale and already its a success with pre-orders... Tesla has got the momentum... Sure...its up to them to continue that going forward up until 2030 and beyond... Its true that only the strongest shall survive especially with all that competition... But that is just words of wisdom...the future has not been written yet... Who is to say that Porsche is NOT gonna falter with their EV and fail miserably leaving Tesla with even more mojo???!!! You see, this is an argument of "what ifs"... These types of arguments suck big time!!! Lets not get into that type of argument.

Sure one could say that the US government gave millions to Tesla...but that money was used to break ground in the mega factory... That money is easily traceable where that money went...and I did say that little help was made by governments...it takes billions to build an infrastructure. TIME and billions. How many billions did it take to build the gasoline stations and infrastructure we have? How long did it take to get it where we are today? 100 plus years is the answer and we continue to invest money and improve the infrastructure... The electric infrastructure is barely 10 years old in comparison... And how many players were involved to help build the oil industry? Puppet governments and wars were made to build the oil industry... Winston Churchill once boasted that from a stroke of his pen one Sunday afternoon Jordan was created... Tesla and Musk NOT curing cancer? Yeah...good one... I could easily see why some praise Musk and the Tesla Model S the way they do... I for the life of me, dont understand the hating though... I understand in coal burning country that EVs are pretty much useless. Ditto for oil producing States and Provinces...hence Ill accept the hatred in that part of the continent...but that is as far as Ill accept it...the useless part of electric cars in those parts of the continent...but I still dont comprehend the hatred part...

Well, as long as you have yet another excuse for Mercedes. It isn't an excuse, Tesla sold 25,000 Model S in the USA in 2015. That is a good number for a $100,000 car, but there aren't any other pure EVs anywhere near that price range, and Tesla as a company had one model. The the Leaf was the only $30,000 EV and the Volt, i3 and Ford EVs didn't exist, Leaf sales would triple. People like to say how the Model S outsells the S-class, that means it outsells many other cars too. The Model S outsells the XJ, A8, 7-series and Quattroporte combined. The big difference is the Model S doesn't make any profit, the S-class does. Wrong perception... The Model S is profitable. Tesla the company is losing money. Why is Tesla losing money? Lets see... Electric charger infrastructure across North America paid for fully by Tesla, without any or little help from governments and/or other investors, partners and/or sponsors. Electricity costs for recharging paid for in full by Tesla with little help by governments with no charge to Tesla car owners. Mega battery factory costing a fortune to build. Not to mention that Tesla also needs (needed) R&D cash for the Model X and Model 3 and maybe future models... Tesla is investing in the future of electric cars making sure the electric car succeeds with no burden to the Tesla electric car customer...other than non-EV car owners/haters whining about charge times, range anxiety and lack of charge station infrastructure, and they are doing it by themselves to try to minimize the whining and to better the experience while trying to ensure the future success and longevity of electric cars... (some people want to even downplay the cancer curing praising...the thing is...Tesla the company, may not be curing cancer, but they sure as hell are building North America's battery powered cars and infrastructure almost by themselves...that almost equates to curing cancer....because the undertaking to build all that infrastructure is almost as tedious and expensive as to find a cure for cancer...especially when there are plenty of naysayers and haters trying to stop Tesla from competing...)

The EOS is that bad? I never sat in one, but I must admit, its an attractive car. Sexism be damned, it feels like it could be a great, fun convertible for the fairer sex. At least by the judgement of its exterior looks. Its funny though, that I also thought the same thing about the Pontiac G6 convertible. Look how that car helped Pontiac to get back on its winning ways.... The New Beetle. I HATE it with a passion yet, Im very grateful it exits. For the same reasons you gave. With all those safety and emissions and every other government regulations...plus all the anti-car zealousy that is going on today with all that autonomous driver-less BS we are being force fed ...cars like these, the non-appliance cars, the fact that they COULD exist IS GREAT! If it takes a New Beetle to keep things fun on the street and to keep my sanity intact with all those boring appliances on the road by seeing a fun car from time to time, then so be it.

I really really love that CLS 63 AMG Frisky... I guess Ill have to choose one also. I did not choose it with the MT edition, but I will this time around TT 5.5L V8. But with an outrageous GSC widebody stealth kit and outrageous paint colour, like this orange one. or in red, but preferably in orange. I wont do a convertible in this one, but I will do T-Tops. 2002 special edition Pontiac Trans Am WS6. The final one. It came in yellow only. THIS is what I want. 5.7 liter LS1 V8. 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass Rallye 350. Yes...in yellow again. 2016 Aston Martin DB11 5.2 liter V12. In that orange golden colour please. On sale at the tail end of 2016. 2016 Jaguar XJR 5.0 liter supercharged V8 The Jag may be a tad long in the tooth at this point in time, but its still a sexy car. Besides, Cadillac does not have anything in this range just yet, let alone a V8 in the 5.0-5.9 liter range. And the Germans dont do a car I like either, other than the BMW M6 Gran Coupe and the M-B CLS AMG.

LOL, you could not tell that in Seattle, the amount of STI and EVOs on the road here is crazy. Maybe a High Tech Young Engineer thing BMW and MB cannot touch these cars with the young engineering crowd. I have found that a LOT of STI/Evo guys make the move to BMW and Audi. It's really an easy gap to bridge. Both have numerous turbocharged models, they have sporty offerings, and both offer AWD. It's a natural transition. And with young buyers, the Evo and STI don't have that footing they had back in the 90's. When these cars dropped in the early 2000's, they hurt sports and muscle cars' feelings. That's no longer the case. The rest of market caught and surpassed them in bang-for-the-buck and especially refinement, and the Fast & Furious craze has died off. They just don't resonate with the newest crop of drivers, even among enthusiasts, really. That is interesting about the STI/Evo guys making the move to BMW and Audi. I must agree with your observations about it being a natural transition. Like you said, these cars were crude, but fast in the 1990s, and once these guys got older, got a lot more mature, they needed rides that reflected them getting older...but keeping the same power train, speed qualities yet better interiors...Audi and BMW was the perfect next step. And yes, the Fast and the Furious era has ended, and thus why the EVO is no longer. But...what perplexes me, is that VW has successfully transformed the Golf GTi, Subaru the WRX...although neutered, its sales are going on strong, Honda has virtually killed off the F&F Civic, but is returning to it with the next gen...etc...why is it that Mitsubishi has failed to evolve the EVO? Look, the Camaro and the Mustang offer turbo 4 cylinder versions that will probably be the high volume cars and tuning them will have backing...yet the EVO has become irrelevant... Im not much into this segment...but I adore it... I LOVE the fact that these cars have (had) plebeian econobox versions while offering high octane versions...and these cars were (are) fast....yes, they helped raise the performance bar for regular folk to enjoy while the nuttiest car guys to exploit more performance from them. And very tuneable they were. While the EVO was never not my cup of tea, looks wise either, (I much preferred the WRX in looks) Im saddened quite a bit from this because yet another performance car bites the dust to leave more way for that shyte Mirage to take its place.

MONTREAL EXPO '67 FRONT LICENSE PLATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Montreal....that is all I have to say! (I got to root toot toot the Montreal horn as often as I can, because...well, Toronto gets all the publicity...so Ill take it when I can!) Nice colour combo. I had an Alero 2 door with that colour combo. For me, I liked the 2nd generation Aurora, but I was disappointed GM/Oldsmobile bloated her up. The 1st generation was sleek. They should have continued the Aurora that way. Anyway, Oldsmobile is dead, so all that I say now is pointless.

Any Northstar Cadillac, the 4.9 V8 Cadillacs, GMT360s, Lincoln Town Car, Lincoln Mark VIII. Lots of American iron in this range. I just realized in the 3 liter thread, we all forgot the 1996 Ford Taurus SHO 3.4 liter V8. Oh well, too late now. Plus the original Chevy Small Block of the 1950s. I never did like the SHO V8 engine. OK....the engine might have been OK, but that Taurus was disgusting. Regardless about the motor being OK, the Buick 3.8 Supercharged V6 was better, and the execution of the engine and car in the 1997 Pontiac Grand Prix GXP was also better as compared to the SHO.

Yeah...and I thought I was gonna be unique with both the Aurora and the DB5 You beat me to it. I was searching high and low for the perfect BMW M6 pic that you snuck your post in before me. COOL! I prefer the 1st generation Aurora. I agree with your assessment of the DB5.

Id pick the CT6 4.2 TTV8, but it aint available yet, so the BMW M6 Grand Coupe takes its place. Sorry about the size, but I couldnt find a smaller one, and this is EXACTLY how I would want my BMW M6 Gran Coupe 4.4 TTV8, including the Euro license plate. Part of the douche baggery image that I have to fulfill as BMW owner living in North America... Besides...Im Greek...sure 100% pure Canadian Bacon...but underneath that Canadian bacon lies some very delicious Pork Souvlaki. Matte black...blacked out...black mags, black chrome, blacked out back lights, limo tinted windows all around with red accented seats and red French stitching where French stitching exists. Continuing with the Euro-snob appeal. 4.7 liter Aston Martin V8 Vantage S Time for my convertible 283 cubic inches of raw American V8 power. I always say I sometimes prefer the 1955 over the 1957 in these threads...but I always seem to choose the '57...of well...1957 Chevy it shall always be! Keeping the classic vibe alive with the Euro snootiness intact. 1965 4.0 liter inline 6 Aston Martin DB5 I need a winter car 1998 4.0 liter V8 Oldsmobile Aurora

Honda is showing cohones in their styling... They have taken the Acura stealth fighter approach to triangular styling in the 2009-20014 Acura TL including the super beak and have massaged it to be quite the stylish and aggressive look that is unique and bold and cool at the same time. Honda is out doing corporate luxury sister Acura in the styling department...and if Honda wanted to, could make upper echelon Hondas more luxurious rendering Acura useless... The quality in Honda products, especially in the lower echelon also has improved... It makes me wonder 30 years later, why did Honda even introduce Acura to the world? Outside North America, our Acura "luxury" products adorn Honda badges anyway... Minus a couple of North American products only that are pure Acura through and through, its just a badge in the front that differs... To boot, the now defunct Acura TSX was just the European Accord... Im liking this Honda Civic...its strange for me to say that...as my whole life...IVE BEEN HATING THE HONDA CIVIC... HATED THE CRX.... HATED THAT UGLY HATCHBACK STATION WAGON THING THEY HAD IN THE 1980s... DISLIKED THE DEL SOL...(I secretly like it actually) HATED ANY CIVIC WITH Si BADGES....

Genesis New York does have a nice ring to it. It could replace Buick's and Chrysler's Park Ave and New Yorker in the New York State of Mind side of things. I don't know if it could do that in a New York Minute, it might take some time for that to happen, but there is no denying that this concept does have a New York Groove about it.

It says all new, but I fail to see the difference between last generation and this all new one...exterior wise obviously. Maybe Im not one of those rabid Subie guys to be able tell the difference.... But yeah...Subaru is getting Toyota boring as of late. Doesn't Toyota own shares in Subaru? (Fuji Heavy actually who owns Subaru) THAT might explain some of the dullness factor.

Yeah...I see the same similarities. The same stance... Anyway, the Genesis looks good from that tiny picture. I bet you, that Hyundai/Genesis has the ballz to build it though, unlike Buick/GM with the Avenir.

OK...I went on the USA site for....AUDI. The S3 bit my interest. Starts at $42 500. No extras. I built it with...no extras. Is it even possible to attain an S3 with no options???!!! Those Germans, they nickel and dime you... You know... the WRX STi is really not as bad as I make it out to be...I could drive this thing with middle-aged pride... Yup, that would be the alcoholic emoticon...I buy a car like the WRX STi at my age with a 10 year old daughter and an 8 year old son, I might as well just beome the week-end alcoholic party animal I was when I was in my twenties... I do like this car though, not enough to be in a Cheers and Gears Dream Car Garage 2016 edition though, or in real life, but for this thread here, I am more than happy with it! EDIT: Yeah...regarding the Mustang and the Camaro...same feelings I have with the WRX or Focus RS... Truth be told, in real life, Id rather the Subaru WRX STi over the Mustang...

I know Frisky. I know. OK...Ill comply. Nix the Challenger. Im still looking for a vehicle. When I decide upon one, Ill post it.

You will allow pony/muscle cars? Like you said...this is not only a sport focused automobile...it is also a pure enthusiast lovers car. I dont want to pick a pony/muscle car to keep with the essence of the Lancer EVO, but to me in this price range, and for pure sporty and enthusiast natured cars, a pony/muscle car is THE only choice... R/T for sure as it fits in the price range easily...the R/T Scat Pack may be tough to get it under 42 000 but its possible. But if you deny the Challenger...and this car is to be my week-end toy AND be a family hauler at the same time (the Challenger gobbles up kids in the back with ease), then Id have to go with the.... I was about to choose the WRX, then the Focus RS...then I realized...Im not comfortable with these cars...from an image point of view. My adolescent years have long passed me by. Sure the R/T Scat Pack Challenger has just as many boy racer cues...but Im fine with the Challenger's adolescent antics...big car and big engine has something to do with it...so the Challenger stays...because in this price range...that is what Ill drive...all day..every day.

Acura sells a bunch of these...and will probably continue to do so. I honestly dont see how they manage to do that...and I will be amazed even more when this rolls out and Acura will continue to sell more of these... Its not only the front face that is ugly...and this coming from a guy that owns a 2012 TL, but the over all package just sucks... Ugly front, ugly back, ugly silhouette. Crappy interior packaging, yet...Im willing to bet the family farm that Acura will sell as many as Acura will build them. Because Acura is doing exactly just that with this current MDX. About the Chinese Knock-Off styling... To be honest...dont all...most SUVs and CUVs look like they are Chinese knock-offs of themselves? I mean...you gotta admit...SUV and CUV styling is kinda generic... Minus the Jeep Wrangler, BMW X6...and there isnt much uniqueness and sexiness to SUVs and CUVs.

Unlike Casa...I dont like Range Rovers. With that being said, I dont think I like this Lincoln either. To me, not only does it look like some sort of Range Rover, it also looks like a Ford Flex. I never really disliked the Flex, but I was never enamored with it either. Like the gullwings...as a concept, but if I was a megastar rapper the next Justin Bieber, Id want those gullwings to stay. HATE those steps... Like WTF is THAT all about? The designers are running out of ideas to get attention so they looked at the entrance to their homes and said...yup...THAT is what a Lincoln SUV needs...steps to climb aboard our humble abode? Maybe next car show...the steps could be in Pavi-Uni (interlocking paving stone I think) with fake foliage on the side... The front end....its easy to see that this design language will only last the requisite 5 years and it will undoubtedly be changed again. Why? 1. It does not translate well to this SUV 2. I dont know about you folk, but this is only the 3rd time I have seen it on a vehicle (Continental, MKZ and this Navigator) and Im already bored to death with it. I LOVE it on the Continental....but I think Lincoln has over saturated it... I could see why many could like this and why it may sell well.... But like Casa said...Lincoln created this niche of full sized luxury SUVs...The Jeep Grand Wagoneer might beg to differ, but 'twas Lincoln that really made this niche resonate with the masses and the gangstas and the rappers and the gangsta rappers...its a shame that Lincoln has degraded this SUV to what it is now and in 2017/2018 or so... (Casa's commentary above my post is how I feel also about Lincoln and why I said what I just said about the Navigator.)

You're packing heat, I see. First we do Charles Bronson Then we do Clint Eastwood in the same way. To salute CCAP's purchase.

30 degrees Fahrenheit is cold, Casa? Shhhhhhh. Dont tell anybody, but you might be a wussy boy!

Why did BMW buy Rolls Royce for? BMW already owns this segment through Rolls Royce... If you ask me...any German attempt in this segment is a pure fail... Unless it has English heritage...aka...Rolls Royce and Bentley... SMK...the Maybach has come and gone...twice...this third attempt wont fair any better... Mercedes has a good thing going on with the S Class... BMW has a good thing going on with Rolls Royce... Id leave well enough alone... Visions of grandeur is what this is....and usually, visions of grandeur dont end up too good...

Blu...were you referring to me? Maybe it was Mr. DFELT that you were referring to as a rabid EV supporter... It don't matter.... Ill talk for myself. 1. Im at work...I just opened up my computer to see waz up...I couldn't earlier because my restaurant was super busy up until now... 2. I just saw the terrorist attacks in Brussels just before opening up this web site...so yeah...I might be a tad slow on the news front today...only because I was catering to my customers that themselves had no time to chit chat with me... 3. And...I never comment on articles like these to begin with...especially ones that come from Consumer Reports... I don't believe them...when they are positive, nor when they are negative... Example...when the Tesla Model S first came out...with no history behind it...it was THE BEST CAR THAT CR EVER reported on... Now...it is not recommended... Toyotas were forever CR's darling...yet...engine sludges and truck frames cracking and cars that run away and premature rusting never deterred CR to give them bad ratings...but now all of a sudden...Toyota does not pass the grade? Yeah...be proud of a magazine that blows bullshyte no matter what way that bullshyte swings...

If I could go back into time and relive my teenaged years in the 1980s...this would have been my dream garage...actually, this WAS my 3.0-3.9 liter dream car garage in the 1980s... In order of preference this time around, starting with the car that I lusted the most and ending with the car that I lusted a little less than the most. 1986 Porsche 930 Turbo flat six 3.3 liter. 1989 Turbo Grand Prix 3.1liter V6 1985 BMW M635 CSi 3.5 liter inline 6. Yeah...Id rather the Turbo Pontiac G.P. FWD W-Body over the Bimmer ...problem???!!! Tied for 5th place 1987 Buick GNX and 1989 Ford Thunderbird SC (Super Coupe) Both 3.8 liter V6s...one is Turbocharged, the other Supercharged.

^^^ Amazing how long those crumple zones were back in the day... Measured in football fields I reckon....