oldshurst442

Answer this question, El Kabong...

Its more like this, CCAP

Words of wisdom.

@ EL K Dude...you simply cannot be that dumb... Honestly... You talk about automotive Darwinism...yet in 2002...the Camaro DIED...The Trans Am is no longer... You know...the Mustang...it nearly died...twice. But guess what? Its LINEAGE has NOT BEEN CUT OFF!!! And THIS coming from a guy with a SCREAMING CHICKEN as his avatar! You really look stupid here dude! Just some friendly advice, Id cut it as fast as I could if I were you...because your reputation in this thread...has shrunk BIG TIME!

CLAIMS... Oppenheiser;s CLAIMS..CLAIMS...the car aint out yet...GM PR FLUFF... Oh...I aint doubting the performance it will have... Yet you are are basing you entire thesis on...CLAIMS... JAY LENO has MORE cars in his garage than Oppenheimer has...and Oppenheimer worrks for a car company... No doubt that Jay Leno will want a 1LE in his stable as well...but that is the point... AMERICAN cars rock today... YOU have it in for Ford... I only have it in for the Camaro... YOU have it in for the entire car company that is Ford... I HAVE admitted that the Camaro is a good car...YOU, are still on a tirade... EL K... You are really not looking good on this argument...

I like your new sig EL K... Its just facts....nothing personal... Facts gets distorted...often... especially by spin doctors... Irony as over at MT...TAF used to say that often about Ford PR fluff... Yet...I see the same from you El K...GM PR Fluff... You still havent proved the GT350 is overpriced... Nobody has... Again... mass produced LT1: 71 000 units on the street in Corvettes... 137 units, maybe a couple more due to a LIMITED production run of Voodoos... There is a message what Suave is saying...TWICE he said it...yet YOU, decide to ignore that too... GM PR Fluff... You proved shyte...EL K... What...a journalists point of view... I countered with Jay Leno... He said the engine was the GREATEST engine built in the US today! He said the GT350 is a PURE REAL 100% European Sports Car. And a bunch of other stuff... And that my friend....just counters YOUR shyte that you call proof. Yet...you choose to ignore that... Auto Journalists have magazines to sell... Jay Leno...talks with his money...his own money that actually bought the car for his own pleasure... THAT my friend...trumps ANYTHING YOU have to say... OH...you bought yourself a Zeta Camaro...good on you... The thing is...THAT also shows your bias... Jay Leno...he got Mustangs in his stable...but he also got Camaros in his stable... Sorry EL K...your bias shows big time... Your zealousnous shows big time... Your trolling is very apparent. I calls them as I sees them. They have laser surgery for that now. I see fine...I hit your knee caps...your argument has no legs to stand on...

There's no irony.You're just avoiding the reality of the situation. Hell, they got this exact thread cooking over in FIN and they're admitting that the changes Ford's making to the Shelby options list are a reaction to the 1LE's pricing. I'm sorry if these things sting you. But that's kinda what Bumblebees do. Again...mass produced LT1 compared to low volume Voodoo... A limited production run versus main stream track car... Bumblebees get swatted you know...

You proved shyte...EL K... What...a journalists point of view... I countered with Jay Leno... He said the engine was the GREATEST engine built in the US today! He said the GT350 is a PURE REAL 100% European Sports Car. And a bunch of other stuff... And that my friend....just counters YOUR shyte that you call proof. Yet...you choose to ignore that... Auto Journalists have magazines to sell... Jay Leno...talks with his money...his own money that actually bought the car for his own pleasure... THAT my friend...trumps ANYTHING YOU have to say... OH...you bought yourself a Zeta Camaro...good on you... The thing is...THAT also shows your bias... Jay Leno...he got Mustangs in his stable...but he also got Camaros in his stable... Sorry EL K...your bias shows big time... Your zealousnous shows big time... Your trolling is very apparent. I calls them as I sees them.

Wings had FordCosworth... You have Surreal... The irony is just too much for me to handle.... Ill just laugh it off...

You see EL K...THAT is trolling... I could shouty font it...but I think the folk understand what is what... BTW....you still havent shown why its overpriced since I told you the LT1 engine is mass produced but the Voodoo is not... And THAT is where your argument falls apart and it just becomes trolling.

Nah...you do understand... You ignore the questions thrown your way... You ignore the other vids that contradict YOUR point of view... What you are doing aint being the messenger....what you are doing is trolling. But its all good man... I got you to change your tune. YOUR FINAL MESSAGE IS THIS: To what Ill answer is: HELL YEAH Brother! Yet you did not explain to me how a mass produced engine in the LT1 compare to a very very low produced bespoke engine in price tags... But ITS ALL GOOD... I succeeded in changing your tune... No mention of Ford, GT350...just a message of how awesome GM can be...and NOBODY could deny that... and THAT should have been your message from the get go... Besides, I did not aim for your head when I shot my .44 at you. Just your knee caps.

Id say the shouty font worked on your attitude... That what you said...is a far cry from saying the GT350 sucks... You were so gung ho with that... Different meaning...GM does a good thing at a great price... Nobody is denying that dude. Im glad you didnt diss on the GT350...and THAT was my point! THAT was the first time you did not diss on the GT350...strange, huh?

Actually....Corvette sales numbers are 37 000 and 34 000 71 000 LT1s....not 66 000 LT1 that I originally stated...71 000 LT1 engines on the street...plus whatever Cadillac has sold in their V Series cars...plus whatever amounts the Camaro ends up selling... versus 137 Voodoo engines in the first year....and not that much more for the second year... And you wanna question the specialnous of the Voodoo? Because obviously at this point...it really is ONLY about the performance numbers... Wow EL K... Just wow... And to make it more clear... The 1LE is targeted to whatever schlep has 40 000 dollars to spend on a car...daily driver or week-end toy...it dont matter...get him in the showroom, tell him the Camero ILE faster than the Mustang...or Nissan 370Z, or Genesis Coupe and sale is made... The GT350, its a tad more than that...and if you cant see that...well..EL K....you arent much of a car guy....you are just a regular sheep, a GM sheep dog wagging his tail on whatever GM tells you to wag your tail on... Ironic aint it? That you think of others this way and I think of you that way...

EL K... Start addressing the fact that the 5.2 liter Voodoo has been VOLUNTARILY limited to 137 units in the first year and then tell me about economies of scale and then tell me the GT350 is overpriced... Until then...your posts are just GARBAGE! OH...the GT350 performs quite well in the numbers department...so dont even go there....

maybe in luxury circles but around these parts the ladies get worked up over Acadias. No one really wants the size and bulk and truckiness of the suburban. Still remember my wife telling me about when her boss got her new Acadia and couldn't stop gushing. She took the crew out to lunch and everyone was oohing and awing over all the room, even in the back. Of course now, they won't even fit in it. And absolutely not the only time i have talked to an Acadia owner and they haven't loved the snot out of it. A comment is always, it has such good room. Vans, lambdas, explorers, are the family haulers you see most around here. The company i work for now has like 8 traverses for the construction staff to make field visits. They used to have pickups and suburbans. I cant argue with you there. 1. My partner's wife has an Acadia...and she LOVES it to death... 2. Not that I want to argue with you....because you made some solid points, but Im also tired from arguing in the Camaro 1LE thread...

Not based on what's going on up here with the GT500 and Zeta ZL1. Consumers know that SVT is the real development muscle behind the Shelby name, so it's judged accordingly.Yeah....its a little too soon to be talking about Zeta ZL-1 depreciation...Come and see me in just a short 3 years... Why? You yourself keeps on wax poeting about the Alpha Camaro... As good as the ZL-1 was...YOU yourself is clamming about OVERPRICENESS and OBSELETENESS...you think the Alpha Camaro wont hamper on the ZL-1's depreciation? Dude...the Zeta Camaro was NEVER lust worthy...in the end it was a fantastic performer...but that's about it... Like I said....YOU YOURSELF thinks the Alpha Camaro is the second coming of Christ...hey...its your rules... You lost me at "Zeta Camaro was NEVER lust worthy."Yes... All those sales crowns were just a pleasant surprise. #inconvenienttruth It was NEVER lust worthy.... Just to the GM gearheads... YOU mistake high performance numbers to "word on the street" Sales crowns? The 2002 Camaro got canned for virtually the same sales numbers... Its just that the Trans Am dragged the profits down as the F-Body had to make profit for 2 brands... It done did good...but sales crowns? That might be too strong of a hyperbole... The Mustang was neck in neck.... I did not see Ford cancel the Mustang due to the fact that Mustang guys defected over to Chevy... So...stop with the childish arguments....

EL K... You are DESPERATELY trying to find faults...real or imagined... And you know what...you failed... 2015 GT350....limited to 137 units... 137 units 137 units 137 units 137 units limited to 137 units. limited to 137 units. limited to 137 units. limited to 137 units. The LT-1 engine has had a chance to be sold in another car....66 000 units. The Voodoo V8, is bespoke to the Mustang in very limited numbers...BY CHOICE!!! And you sit here arguing about price differential? Yet...you cant see where I was going with that when I was telling you that NOBODY gives a shyte about that criteria...only YOU???!!! The GT350 was priced that high....because it was NEVER meant to be sold at mainstream levels...BESPOKE V8...unlike the LT1... But....I know you know.... I know you know how it works... AND THAT IS WHY IM PISSED AT YOU!!! 'Cause YOU are not the naive little high schoolboy just looking at car mags for the numbers... YOU KNOW the industry, yet instead of using your influence to INFORM us....YOU DECIDE TO TROLL... Technically...the GT350 and the 1LE are NOT targeting the same market... The GT350 is going for the collector crowd...the ones that ALWAYS come through for FORD when Ford introduces yet another special edition Mustang....and maybe some other car enthusiast from a different flavour... The Camaro 1LE...especially at that price point...is targeting anybody that has 40 000 dollars to spend on a week-end toy... THAT is why Im saying the Camaro 1LE is bland... The thing is...YOU KNEW where I was going with it....because YOU KNOW IT TO BE TRUE yourself... Cut the crap already!

The Vette beat it in almost every performance metric. Sorry, but a sweet engine note alone does not a car make. http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2016-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-z51-vs-2016-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350-final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-4 BUMP... Yeah...tell that to Ferrari...Lamborghini... Especially when EVERYBODY knows their cars burn themselves to the ground...

Dude...go back and see if I answered your comment about sound....and you will see I never answered you back... Tis YOU that said that V8 sound does not sell cars alone... Yet...Jay Leno...he keeps on talking about that sound the Voodoo makes... And...Ferrari. Hey...Its YOU that made that claim...now..live with the shame.

Not based on what's going on up here with the GT500 and Zeta ZL1. Consumers know that SVT is the real development muscle behind the Shelby name, so it's judged accordingly. Yeah....its a little too soon to be talking about Zeta ZL-1 depreciation... Come and see me in just a short 3 years... Why? You yourself keeps on wax poeting about the Alpha Camaro... As good as the ZL-1 was...YOU yourself is clamming about OVERPRICENESS and OBSELETENESS...you think the Alpha Camaro wont hamper on the ZL-1's depreciation? Dude...the Zeta Camaro was NEVER lust worthy...in the end it was a fantastic performer...but that's about it... Like I said....YOU YOURSELF thinks the Alpha Camaro is the second coming of Christ...hey...its your rules...

@ Surreal . Seriously? You didn't make that half page post (on top of the many long winded posts you have made)? Must been someone else who goes on endlessly that I was thinking about. My bad. Yet you keep on coming back for more... Dude....either stop responding or stop trying to make it seem like you are no drama queen either... @ EL K YOU are the ONLY one making it a point... Remember dude.. the 2015 GT350 were cars that were LIMITED to 137 units...all accounted for. Dude...the Voodoo 5.2 liter engine is bespoke to that particular trim ONLY... EL K...you cant possibly be that obtuse... LT1 engines have been in the Vette....34000 the first year and 32000 the second...that is 66 000 units that rolled off the assembly line... THAT is what makes the GT350 SPECIAL... But go ahead...continue arguing with me... Ill stop you dead in your tracks...YOU re the one that looks foolish here...not me...despite my novel worthy posts...

Hey, if they bought one right out of the gate then good for them. If they didn't then that's between them and their wallet.But where your comparison breaks down a bit is the fact that it took Ford two or three years to reel in the Chevy. The Alpha Camaro was already capable of being a headache for the Shelby as soon as it dropped, which was only months after the Shelby. Which, in turn, is already seeing it's options list juggled around in order to try and fight back. Yeah and?That my friend is normal business in the industry... Thing is... People in Greece, the ones that can actually buy a new car in 2015...are buying brand new Mustangs... So are the Brits... They are peeved off that they arent getting the visceral Mustangs that Hammond kept on taking about... But that is the thing though EL K... Lets talk like adults... Its hard to engineer a classic pony car to sell to the world when for 50 years all you've ever heard was how the rest of the world views the classic muscle car as uncouth... When it comes to a mythological creature like the Mustang, Ford had to really be careful NOT to screw it up for us and for them....as you know EL K, Ford is engineering only ONE Mustang platform for the world...only one... They miscalculated...its OK...they are correcting....dont act like a douche...you know what is what... Chevy...BEFORE the Corvette went racing with the C5...was a JOKE to the world....even when the C5R was winning, the world was laughing... Even when the C6R was winning, the world was still laughing...only the French in France started loving it...now...with the C7....the world is starting to take notice... CUE IN SURREAL HERE Yes Surreal, the French started loving that good 'ol V8 sound, yeah...like how CCAP and myself love the GT350 sound...kinda how universally, FERRARI ENGINES ARE REVERED for THEIR SOUND...hell a Ferrari is worth their price of admission SOLELY on the way they sound...who cares of they CONTINUE to burn to the ground! How many years...decades does that make for the Vette finally to get world acceptance? Dont kid yourself EL K... The C7 Vette is still not as revered in the world as it is here in North America...the C7 is still eons behind in respect as the Porsche 911 is world wide... Ford....with the GT350...made a EUROPEAN style SPORTS CAR....the Jay Leno video CLEARLY states that...and that video CLEARLY gives the reasons why... Yet....you seem to be all hell bent to dismiss ANY qualities the GT350 has... You know...the 1LE probably feels like a muscle car...someone who HATES muscle cars...like 99.99% of the rest of the world, probably will DESPISE a Camaro 1LE...and if GM was to go global with the Camaro...it would probably fail in that regard... Why? Unlike the Mustang...where the Mustang is a mythological creature...the Camaro is not... The world wanted a muscle car Mustang...they got a more European car....but they are OK with that... If the world got a muscle car Camaro...they would probably hate it...like I said...the Vette is as much a muscle car as its supposed to be...and yet...its laughed upon...and a Vette has more cachet than a Camaro world wide me thinks... PS: you think Ford marketers werent noticing the failures of Vette and Cadillac on European shores in the 1990s? You think they did not know the dangers of selling pure Americana to Europeans and how difficult it is? PSS: Ford of Europe has more presence than GM does...not Opel...Europeans think that Opel is truly European...German... They also think that of Ford of Europe... But a Ford Mustang is PURE Ford USA.... Think about how hard it is to engineer driving dynamics on a classic like a Mustang... GM STILL hasnt perfected that with its Corvette....get what Im sayin? Porsche is fantastic....they managed to create a legend that both continents enjoy, and literally for the same values... Ford and GM are still finding themselves in that regard....the world wide image thing... Why you felt the need to bring me into this, without knowing why I posted what I posted in the first place, is kind of silly and pointless but if it helps you write another diatribe laden novella. diatribe laden novella. You are full of those...more than mine... And yet you responded too...which you also have a history of doing...non...stop... About the sound.... Yeah..I know why you posted it...you were directing that to me...and with the FERRARI response I gave you...well, ITS OK...I guess people dont buy Ferraris for their engine noises, they buy them for their reliability... Dude...even women have orgasms when they hear Ferraris drive by... But yeah...engine noises arent that important for performance cars...

Price advantage? Who gives a phoque about price advantage? Especially when it comes to a BESPOKE V8 engine.... Everything about the Camaro is hand me downs... Chassis, engine, ...all hand me downs...of course the car is cheaper in price... Like I said...Id just buy myself a Vette and be done with it, or just the basic V8 Camaro instead of the 1LE, EL K...stop with the idiocy over a factor than nobody gives a shyte about... A GT350 is not your run-of-the mill pony car...like a 1LE... A BESPOKE flat plane crank V8 IS special... It was engineered for the Mustang GT350... You dont like it....cool, you are allowed... But like I said...the flip side to all that....a 1LE is nothing special....so that 37 000 dollar price tag is deemed to high for me...as I would rather bet it all on black at the Flamingo knowing Bugsy Siegel has rigged the round thing to stop at red....Id get a bigger thrill losing and possibly seeing Bugsy and buying him a drink which that would put me in the hole for $37012...10 dollars for his scotch ontherocks and a 2 dollar tip....than be seen in the Camaro... Its all how one sees it!

Hey, if they bought one right out of the gate then good for them. If they didn't then that's between them and their wallet. But where your comparison breaks down a bit is the fact that it took Ford two or three years to reel in the Chevy. The Alpha Camaro was already capable of being a headache for the Shelby as soon as it dropped, which was only months after the Shelby. Which, in turn, is already seeing it's options list juggled around in order to try and fight back. Yeah and? That my friend is normal business in the industry... Thing is... People in Greece, the ones that can actually buy a new car in 2015...are buying brand new Mustangs... So are the Brits... They are peeved off that they arent getting the visceral Mustangs that Hammond kept on taking about... But that is the thing though EL K... Lets talk like adults... Its hard to engineer a classic pony car to sell to the world when for 50 years all you've ever heard was how the rest of the world views the classic muscle car as uncouth... When it comes to a mythological creature like the Mustang, Ford had to really be careful NOT to screw it up for us and for them....as you know EL K, Ford is engineering only ONE Mustang platform for the world...only one... They miscalculated...its OK...they are correcting....dont act like a douche...you know what is what... Chevy...BEFORE the Corvette went racing with the C5...was a JOKE to the world....even when the C5R was winning, the world was laughing... Even when the C6R was winning, the world was still laughing...only the French in France started loving it...now...with the C7....the world is starting to take notice... CUE IN SURREAL HERE Yes Surreal, the French started loving that good 'ol V8 sound, yeah...like how CCAP and myself love the GT350 sound...kinda how universally, FERRARI ENGINES ARE REVERED for THEIR SOUND...hell a Ferrari is worth their price of admission SOLELY on the way they sound...who cares of they CONTINUE to burn to the ground! How many years...decades does that make for the Vette finally to get world acceptance? Dont kid yourself EL K... The C7 Vette is still not as revered in the world as it is here in North America...the C7 is still eons behind in respect as the Porsche 911 is world wide... Ford....with the GT350...made a EUROPEAN style SPORTS CAR....the Jay Leno video CLEARLY states that...and that video CLEARLY gives the reasons why... Yet....you seem to be all hell bent to dismiss ANY qualities the GT350 has... You know...the 1LE probably feels like a muscle car...someone who HATES muscle cars...like 99.99% of the rest of the world, probably will DESPISE a Camaro 1LE...and if GM was to go global with the Camaro...it would probably fail in that regard... Why? Unlike the Mustang...where the Mustang is a mythological creature...the Camaro is not... The world wanted a muscle car Mustang...they got a more European car....but they are OK with that... If the world got a muscle car Camaro...they would probably hate it...like I said...the Vette is as much a muscle car as its supposed to be...and yet...its laughed upon...and a Vette has more cachet than a Camaro world wide me thinks... PS: you think Ford marketers werent noticing the failures of Vette and Cadillac on European shores in the 1990s? You think they did not know the dangers of selling pure Americana to Europeans and how difficult it is? PSS: Ford of Europe has more presence than GM does...not Opel...Europeans think that Opel is truly European...German... They also think that of Ford of Europe... But a Ford Mustang is PURE Ford USA.... Think about how hard it is to engineer driving dynamics on a classic like a Mustang... GM STILL hasnt perfected that with its Corvette....get what Im sayin? Porsche is fantastic....they managed to create a legend that both continents enjoy, and literally for the same values... Ford and GM are still finding themselves in that regard....the world wide image thing...

BULLSHYTE, bro! I showed you a video where all that SHYTE does NOT matter...yet you IGNORE it...and PLOW ahead with YOUR agenda! EFF OFF, bro! Besides...the 1LE aint out yet.. Will it have heat soak issues like the Corvette Z06???!!! We will soon find out...wont we? And if it does...what will be your excuse then? You know...the GT350 is flawless so far! So is the Hellcat... Yet the Vette...it even gets beat by a 4 door Cadillac sedan in speed performance...and NO HEAT SOAK ISSUES!!!! Yet..you seem docile about that matter! Let me hear you say negative shyte against Chevy and their shytty engineering on the Z06 with heat saok issues... Yeah yeah...brothers did not break in the Vette properly... Them Toyota excuses are great...works for GM just as good too! THAT would be YOU... CONGRATS right back at you! Yeah yeah...the GT350sucks and the Camaro 1LE is the best! How PHOKING CHILDISH CAN WE GET???!!!